1 NO. 90-CI-6033 JEFFERSON CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION ONE (1) 2 3 JOYCE FENTRESS, ET AL. PLAINTIFFS 4 5 VS. DEPOSITION FOR PLAINTIFFS 6 7 SHEA COMMUNICATIONS, ET AL. DEFENDANTS 8 * * * * * * * * * * 9 10 DEPONENT: LISA WADDELL 11 DATE: NOVEMBER 19, 1993 12 13 * * * * * * * * * * 14 15 16 REPORTER: KATHY NOLD 17 18 KENTUCKIANA REPORTERS SUITE 260 19 730 WEST MAIN STREET LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 20 (502) 589-2273 Page 1 1 * * * * * * * * * * 2 3 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA 4 INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION 5 IN RE ELI LILLY AND COMPANY ) Prozac Products Liability ) MDL Docket No. 907 6 Litigation ) 7 * * * * * * * * * * 8 NO. 91-02496-A 9 JACKIE LYNN BIFFLE, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT ) COURT OF 10 V. ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS ) 11 ELI LILLY & COMPANY AND ) 14TH JUDICIAL DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY ) DISTRICT 12 * * * * * * * * * * Page 2 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 DR. MARIUS SAINES, etc., et al., ) Case No: 4 ) SC 008331 Plaintiffs, ) 5 ) vs. ) 6 ) ELI LILLY & COMPANY, a corporation; ) 7 DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY, a division ) of Eli Lilly & Company; and DOBS 1- ) 8 100, inclusive, ) ) 9 Defendants. ) ____________________________________) 10 11 * * * * * * * * * * Page 3 1 THE DEPOSITION OF LISA WADDELL TAKEN AT THE 2 OFFICE OF BOEHL, STOPHER & GRAVES, 400 WEST 3 MARKET STREET, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, 40202, ON 4 NOVEMBER 19, 1993; SAID DEPOSITION TAKEN PURSUANT 5 TO NOTICE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF CIVIL 6 PROCEDURE. 7 * * * * * * * * * * 8 A P P E A R A N C E S 9 10 RENE MORTIMER COUNSEL FOR GROUP A PLAINTIFFS 11 LEONARD M. RING AND ASSOCIATES, P.C. 111 WEST WASHINGTON AVENUE, SUITE 1333 12 CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60602 13 LAWRENCE J. MYERS COUNSEL FOR ELI LILLY AND COMPANY 14 FREEMAN & HAWKINS 4000 ONE PEACHTREE CENTER 15 303 PEACHTREE STREET, N.E. ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30308-3243 16 MARGARET M. HUFF 17 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY LILLY CORPORATE CENTER 18 INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA 46285 19 B. HUME MORRIS COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS 20 STARKS BUILDING LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 21 WILLIAM J. NOLD 22 COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS 730 WEST MAIN STREET 23 LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 Page 4 1 I N D E X 2 3 DEPOSITION OF LISA WADDELL 4 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. MORTIMER 6 6 CERTIFICATE 187 7 ERRATA 188 8 Page 5 1 2 COMES LISA WADDELL, CALLED BY THE 3 PLAINTIFF, AND AFTER FIRST BEING DULY SWORN, WAS 4 DEPOSED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MS. MORTIMER: 7 Q. Would you state your name and 8 spell your last name, for the record? 9 A. My name is Lisa Waddell, my 10 last name is W-A-D-D-E-L-L. 11 MS. MORTIMER: Let the record reflect 12 that this is the discovery deposition of Lisa 13 Waddell taken pursuant to notice by agreement in 14 accordance with all local and state rules of 15 procedure. 16 Q. Miss Waddell, have you ever 17 given a deposition before? 18 A. No. 19 Q. What's going to happen is I'm 20 going to be asking you a series of questions. I 21 ask that you wait until I finish asking you the 22 entire question before you give your answer, 23 okay, just because it's easier for the court 24 reporter that way. Page 6 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. And also I need you, and you're 3 doing fine, to answer all my questions verbally. 4 She can't take down a nod of the head or uh-huh 5 or uh-uh on the record, okay? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Also, if you don't understand a 8 question, let me know. If you want me to clarify 9 something, let me know, and I'll do what I can to 10 work with you until we reach a point where we are 11 both on the same level. Otherwise, I'll assume 12 you understood my question if you answer it. 13 Okay? 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. Also, if you need a break at 16 anytime for any reason, just let me know and 17 we'll take a break. Sometimes, you know, I start 18 asking questions and it gets to be an hour and 19 sometimes people need a break and that's fine, I 20 won't be offended. 21 When were you born? 22 A. February 22, 1966. 23 Q. And what's your social security 24 number? Page 7 1 A. xxxxxxxxxxx. 2 Q. Where do you currently reside? 3 A. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 4 xxxxxxxx. 5 Q. Is that a home? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. House? 8 A. It's a house. 9 Q. Are you married? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What's your husband's name? 12 A. xxxxx. 13 Q. Other than xxxxx, do you live 14 with anyone else in the house? 15 A. No. 16 Q. How long have you lived there? 17 A. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. 18 Q. What's your highest level of 19 education? 20 A. I have a BS in pharmacy. 21 Q. Where did you get that? 22 A. Purdue University. 23 Q. What year did you get that 24 degree? Page 8 1 A. I graduated in 1989. 2 Q. After you got a BS in pharmacy 3 from Purdue in 1989, where did you work? 4 A. I was employed by Roche 5 Professional Service Centers, R-O-C-H-E. 6 Q. Where is that located? 7 A. It was in Cincinnati, Ohio. 8 Q. How long did you work there? 9 A. I worked for Roche Professional 10 Service Centers until October of '91. 11 Q. And you began working there 12 right out of Purdue? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So like June of '89? 15 A. July. 16 Q. From July of 1989 until October 17 of '91 you worked for Roche Professional 18 Services? 19 A. Excuse me, I made an error. I 20 started in July of 1989 and then in October of 21 1989, excuse me. 22 Q. You left that position? 23 A. The company was bought out by 24 MPI Pharmacy Services. Page 9 1 Q. What was your position at Roche 2 Professional Service Centers? 3 A. I was a staff pharmacist. 4 Q. What were your duties as a 5 staff pharmacist there? 6 A. I took orders, I dispensed the 7 drugs, and I was in charge of drivers. All of 8 our drugs were delivered. 9 Q. Did you ever dispense any 10 psychotropic drugs as a staff pharmacist? 11 A. No. 12 Q. So you never dispensed Prozac 13 or Fluoxetine in your position at Roche -- 14 A. No. 15 Q. -- Professional Service 16 Centers. That's correct, right? It's correct 17 that you didn't dispense Prozac during that 18 position? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. While you worked at Roche 21 Professional Service Centers, did you do any 22 research or help in the performance of clinical 23 trials? 24 A. No. Page 10 1 Q. So from October of 1989 to when 2 did you work for MPI Pharmacy? 3 A. February of '91. 4 Q. What was your position with MPI 5 Pharmacy? 6 A. The same as with Roche 7 Professional Service Centers. 8 Q. And your duties were the same? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. So you did not work with any 11 psychotropic drugs or dispense Prozac or 12 Fluoxetine during that timeframe? 13 A. No. 14 Q. And you didn't perform any 15 clinical trials or work with anyone who performed 16 clinical trials or research with respect to 17 psychotropic drugs during that time, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who was your supervisor at 20 Roche Professional Service Centers? 21 A. Rebecca Fire. 22 Q. Could you spell the last name? 23 A. F-I-R-E. 24 Q. Who was your supervisor at MPI Page 11 1 Pharmacy? 2 A. Rebecca Fire. 3 Q. Why did you leave that position 4 in February of 1991? 5 A. I had a job offer with Lilly. 6 Q. Who did you interview with at 7 Lilly for the position? 8 A. At that time? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. Marv Lich, L-I-C-H. 11 Q. And what department does Marv 12 Lich or did Marv Lich work for in Lilly at that 13 time, if you know? 14 A. He was a district manager. 15 Q. In what department at Lilly? 16 A. For Select Products in 17 Nashville, Tennessee. 18 Q. Is Select Products a separate 19 division within Eli Lilly? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. When you were taking classes at 22 Purdue to get your BS degree, did you take any 23 classes in psychiatry? 24 A. No. Page 12 1 Q. When you were taking classes at 2 Purdue, did you take any classes where the 3 subject matter dealt with psychotropic drugs? 4 A. I had pharmacology. 5 Q. And what topics did you discuss 6 in pharmacology? 7 A. All different drug classes. 8 Q. And what specific drug classes 9 dealt with psychotropic drugs, was psychotropic 10 drugs one of the classes? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. When you -- was that a separate 13 class or like a week long part of a pharmacology 14 course? 15 A. It would have been a unit of 16 learning within the course. 17 Q. During that unit of learning 18 within that one course at Purdue, do you recall 19 studying Prozac or Fluoxetine? 20 A. I think Prozac was new at that 21 time and I recall mention of it. 22 Q. Do you recall what context it 23 was mentioned in? 24 A. Antidepressant. Page 13 1 Q. Do you recall what was said 2 with respect to Prozac? 3 A. No. 4 Q. What was the name of the 5 course, Pharmacology, or was it Pharmacology 1 or 6 something like that? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Do you recall your instructor's 9 name? 10 A. We had various instructors. 11 Q. Do you recall the instructor 12 that taught you about or mentioned Prozac during 13 that unit in pharmacology class? 14 A. No. 15 Q. When did you start working for 16 Lilly? 17 A. February, 1991. 18 Q. What was your position when you 19 started? 20 A. Sales representative. 21 Q. Do you currently work for Eli 22 Lilly? 23 A. Yes, I do. 24 Q. Has your position always been Page 14 1 sales representative? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. My understanding is that there 4 are several different types of sales 5 representatives within Lilly, is that true? In 6 other words, there's a Dista sales 7 representative, there's a Lilly sales 8 representative, is that your understanding? 9 A. There are different divisions 10 which have sales representatives. 11 Q. Could you tell me what those 12 divisions are? 13 A. There's a Dista sales force, 14 Lilly retail sales force, Select Products sales 15 force, hospital sales force, and I believe 16 there's a endocrinology sales force although I'm 17 not very familiar with that. 18 Q. Would you spell that for the 19 court reporter, please? 20 A. Endocrinology? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. E-N-D-O-C-R-I-N-O-L-O-G-Y. 23 Q. Do all of the sales forces sell 24 Prozac or Fluoxetine? Page 15 1 A. No. 2 Q. Out of the five separate sales 3 forces that you mentioned, what sales forces sell 4 Fluoxetine or Prozac? 5 A. Currently? 6 Q. When you started. 7 A. When I started, Dista products, 8 Select Products, I don't know about hospital or 9 the endocrinology sales force. 10 Q. Has it ever changed where -- 11 has it changed since February of '91 when you 12 started to -- does the Dista sales force or 13 Select Product sales force not sell Prozac or 14 does Lilly now sell Prozac, the Lilly retail 15 sales force? 16 A. Things have changed since 17 probably a year ago, approximately a year ago. 18 Lilly now also sells Prozac but the divisions do 19 call on different specialties of physicians. 20 Q. So when you started in February 21 of '91, the only sales forces that you recall 22 selling Prozac or Fluoxetine were the Dista sales 23 force and the Select Products sales force. As of 24 a year ago which would have been approximately Page 16 1 November of 1992, it's your understanding that 2 other than the Dista sales forces and the Select 3 Products sales force, the Lilly retail sales 4 force now also sells Prozac and Fluoxetine, 5 correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You stated that some of the 8 sales forces sell to one type of physician or 9 medical provider and others sell to other types. 10 If you could tell me in February of '91, what 11 types of medical providers the Dista sales force 12 sold Prozac to or Fluoxetine? 13 A. To the best of my knowledge, 14 psychiatrists and primary care physicians. 15 Q. Has that changed at all since 16 February of '91? 17 A. As far as Dista division? 18 Q. Correct. 19 A. No. 20 Q. And in November of '92 when the 21 Lilly retail sales force began to sell Prozac or 22 Fluoxetine, to whom were they selling that drug? 23 A. Primary care physicians. 24 Q. Has that changed at all from Page 17 1 November of '92 to the present? 2 A. Not to my knowledge. 3 Q. And finally the Select Products 4 sales representatives, with respect to them, to 5 whom in February of '91 did they sell Prozac or 6 Fluoxetine? 7 A. Primary care physicians. 8 Q. Has that changed at all? 9 A. Not to my knowledge. 10 Q. So since you began working for 11 Eli Lilly, the only sales force that has sold 12 Prozac or Fluoxetine to psychiatrists was the 13 Dista sales force, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. When you started in February of 16 '91 as a sales representative, for what division 17 were you working? 18 A. Select Products. 19 Q. Have you continuously worked 20 for Select Products from February of '91 to the 21 present? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Give me the inclusive dates 24 that you worked for the Select Products division Page 18 1 as a sales representative. 2 A. February of 1991 until March of 3 1993. 4 Q. In March of '93, for what 5 division did you work as a sales representative? 6 A. Dista Products. 7 Q. And from March of 1993 to the 8 present, have you remained a sales representative 9 for the Dista sales force? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Was there some sort of training 12 program that you had to participate in initially 13 when you began your work for Eli Lilly? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Where did you take that 16 training? 17 A. Indianapolis, Indiana. 18 Q. Do you know the address of the 19 place where you took your training? 20 A. Corporate Center. 21 Q. Is there a specific department 22 within Corporate Center where you went every day 23 to take your training? 24 A. Sales training. Page 19 1 Q. That's the specific name of the 2 department? 3 A. To the best of my knowledge. 4 Q. And that training began in 5 February of 1991? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Approximately how long a period 8 of time were you in training? 9 A. Four weeks. 10 Q. Who was in charge of your 11 training program from Lilly? 12 A. I don't recall who the manager 13 of sales training was. 14 MS MORTIMER: Could you read that back? 15 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 16 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 17 Q. Was there an office within that 18 division or that department? 19 A. I don't understand the 20 question. 21 Q. Was there an office like, you 22 know, where the manager would sit during the day, 23 kind of like the principal's office of the high 24 school, that kind of thing, was there an office Page 20 1 within the sales department? 2 A. Not per se. There's an area 3 where several people have desks and cubicles. 4 Q. And then was there a classroom 5 nearby within that area? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you recall the names of any 8 of the individuals that were sitting at the desks 9 within the cubicles or anywhere around that area 10 that worked in the sales training department when 11 you trained there? 12 A. For initial development? 13 Q. The four week period, is that 14 what the training is called, initial development? 15 A. The four week period is called 16 initial development. Some associates that I 17 recall from initial development are Brian Vanhoy, 18 V-A-N-H-O-Y, Mike Webb, Jack Campbell, that's all 19 I can recall. 20 Q. Do you know the position that 21 Brian Vanhoy had with the sales training 22 department? 23 A. Associate. 24 Q. Did he teach or participate in Page 21 1 any of the lectures? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Does the same hold true for 4 Mike Webb and Jack Campbell, as far as you can 5 recall? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. When you went to training for 8 initial development in those four weeks, did you 9 have to sign in every day? 10 A. I don't recall signing in every 11 day. 12 Q. I have to ask you this 13 question, and it's a bad one. Have you ever been 14 convicted of a felony or any crime of dishonesty? 15 A. No. 16 Q. What -- if you could describe 17 the training program for me in that four weeks. 18 A. In general, we learned about 19 each of the products that we would be promoting, 20 we learned about company policy and benefits, we 21 practiced detailing, that's about all I can 22 remember. 23 Q. Was it broken down within that 24 four week period? In other words, in the first Page 22 1 week did you learn about each product and in the 2 second week did you learn about company policy, 3 how did that work, if you can recall? 4 A. To the best of my recollection, 5 we focused on one product at a time during a 6 several day span and then throughout those -- 7 that span, we would have breaks from the products 8 and go more into company policy and procedures. 9 Q. Did you study all Eli Lilly 10 products or did you study the particular products 11 that you would be selling in your position as a 12 sales representative? 13 A. Just the products we would be 14 promoting. 15 Q. When you started the training 16 program, were you given any materials that told 17 you what products you would be detailing? 18 A. I knew which products I would 19 be detailing before I took the job. 20 Q. And you were given that 21 information by the gentleman that interviewed 22 you? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And that would have been Marv Page 23 1 Lich? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And what products did he tell 4 you you would be detailing? 5 A. Ceclor, Axid, and Prozac. 6 Q. During that four week time 7 period, approximately -- if you can give me a 8 rough estimate, what percentage of time did you 9 spend learning about the products as opposed to 10 learning about company policy and benefits and 11 practicing detailing? 12 A. I would say we spent about 13 seventy-five percent of the time on product 14 information. 15 Q. Okay. And within that 16 seventy-five percent of the time, approximately 17 how much time did you spend learning about 18 Prozac? 19 A. I would say approximately one 20 week. 21 Q. About what percentage within 22 that seventy-five percent of the time would that 23 be? 24 A. Within the seventy-five percent Page 24 1 of the time? 2 Q. How many weeks did you spend 3 learning about the products? 4 A. About one week we learned about 5 Prozac. 6 Q. Okay. Out of the four week 7 period? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And out of the four week 10 period, how much time did you spend learning 11 about all the three products that you were going 12 to detail? 13 A. About seventy-five percent of 14 the time. 15 Q. So three weeks? 16 A. Yes. 17 MR. MYERS: I did the math, it works 18 out. 19 MS. MORTIMER: Yes, was I lucky. 20 Q. Who were your instructors when 21 you learned about Prozac? 22 A. I gave you three names of 23 associates I remember from sales training, I 24 can't say that they specifically taught me about Page 25 1 Prozac, and there were also other individuals who 2 came in and spoke to us during that four week 3 time period. 4 Q. So it could have been the three 5 associates you've identified but it also could 6 have been other people that came in for one or 7 two days and discussed the product? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Specifically, what did you 10 learn about Prozac during your initial training 11 period? 12 A. We learned about the chemistry 13 of the product, its purported mechanism of 14 action, its indications, its dosage, safety 15 profile and common side effects, those are the 16 things that I can recall. 17 Q. How long was that course you 18 took at Purdue in Pharmacology, was that a year 19 long course or a semester course? 20 A. I had Pharmacology courses over 21 the vast majority of my college career. It was 22 longer than a one year course, but I can't say 23 how long. 24 Q. And you only recall Prozac Page 26 1 being mentioned on one day or was Prozac a 2 specific unit? 3 A. No, Prozac was not a specific 4 unit. 5 Q. So you just recall it being 6 mentioned whenever a discussion of 7 antidepressants was had during -- 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Other than the mentioning of 10 Prozac by an instructor during a pharmacology 11 course in college, do you recall ever studying or 12 being trained about Prozac prior to your initial 13 training session at Lilly? 14 A. Could you repeat the question? 15 MS. MORTIMER: Could you read that 16 back? 17 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 18 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 19 A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. During that one week time 21 period in your initial training where you learned 22 about Prozac, what specifically were you told 23 about the chemistry of the product? 24 A. That it's a serotonin reuptake Page 27 1 inhibitor. 2 Q. Anything else that you can 3 recall? 4 A. Not that I can recall. 5 Q. Were you given any training 6 materials on Prozac, reference materials or 7 handbook or something of that nature? 8 A. We had CNS modules. 9 Q. And what is a CNS module? 10 A. CNS stands for central nervous 11 system, a module is just a small booklet put 12 together. 13 Q. Did that CNS module only 14 discuss Prozac or was Prozac a chapter within it? 15 A. Prozac was a unit within the 16 modules. 17 Q. Did you use that CNS module for 18 your training in the other two drugs that you 19 were to detail? 20 A. We had separate modules for 21 each product. 22 Q. Do you currently have a copy of 23 the CNS module that you received during training 24 that had a unit within it on Prozac? Page 28 1 A. I think I might. 2 MS. MORTIMER: We would like a copy of 3 that, Larry. 4 MR. MYERS: You probably have already 5 gotten a copy of it. 6 MS. MORTIMER: If we don't, then I'd 7 like one, okay. 8 MR. MYERS: We'll look into it. 9 Q. Do you recall what was told to 10 you about the mechanisms of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 11 A. That's just explaining what a 12 serotonin reuptake inhibitor -- 13 Q. Could you explain -- 14 A. -- acts. 15 Q. Could you explain what 16 information you were given with respect to that? 17 A. That Prozac blocks the reuptake 18 of serotonin. 19 Q. Does it discuss the effect of 20 the blockade of the reuptake of serotonin within 21 the CNS module for you, or did it for you? 22 A. I don't remember. 23 Q. Did the CNS module explain the 24 six different topics that you have given me Page 29 1 during the training and the topics are chemistry 2 of the product, mechanisms of the action, 3 indications, dosage, safety profile and common 4 side effects? 5 A. There are several CNS modules, 6 first of all, and to the best of my recollection, 7 the one about Prozac covers those different 8 topics. 9 Q. Is there anything else within 10 the CNS module other than those six topics about 11 Prozac, that you can recall? 12 A. Not that I can recall. 13 Q. What indications were you told 14 Prozac was used for during your training? 15 A. Prozac is and was indicated for 16 the treatment of depression. 17 Q. Is that the only indication 18 that you were told of? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what were you told about 21 the dosage with respect to Prozac? 22 A. The dosage range is twenty 23 milligrams to eighty milligrams with the most 24 commonly prescribed dose of twenty milligrams. Page 30 1 Q. Did you learn from training 2 what the higher dosage levels were used for? 3 MR. MYERS: When you say why you might 4 use those dosages that are higher than twenty 5 milligrams, is that the question? 6 Q. The question is, were you told 7 in training what the higher dosage of Prozac, 8 higher than the most common that you have given 9 me of twenty milligrams, were used for? 10 MR. MYERS: I object to the form, it's 11 awfully vague. Answer if you can. 12 MS. MORTIMER: It's vague, how can it 13 be vague? 14 MR. MYERS: What it's used for, I asked 15 you to clarify and you declined. 16 MS. MORTIMER: I never declined. 17 MR. MYERS: If you can answer go ahead. 18 A. Prozac is indicated for the 19 treatment of depression. 20 Q. You said that the most common -- 21 you were told that the most common dosage was 22 twenty milligrams, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Were you told what or why the Page 31 1 higher dosages were prescribed? 2 A. To treat depression. 3 Q. Were you told in what 4 circumstances the higher dosages were prescribed 5 during your training program? 6 A. I believe to treat depression, 7 I don't understand the question. 8 Q. Why is twenty milligrams most 9 common as opposed to eighty milligrams, is there 10 some instances where twenty milligrams are used 11 and some instances where eighty milligrams were 12 used, were you told the reasons why sometimes 13 twenty milligrams are used and sometimes eighty 14 milligrams are used? 15 A. Twenty milligrams is the 16 customary starting dosage. Most patients will 17 respond to twenty milligrams and therefore higher 18 doses aren't commonly used. 19 Q. So you were told during 20 training that the higher dosages, and when I say 21 higher I mean higher than twenty milligrams, were 22 used if the patient was not responding to the 23 twenty milligrams. Were you told that in 24 training or was that ever even discussed? Page 32 1 A. I don't know that that was ever 2 discussed. 3 Q. Was it ever discussed with you 4 as a sales representative why higher dosages were 5 used as opposed to the twenty milligram most 6 common dose? 7 MR. MYERS: I object to the form, she's 8 answered that once or twice. 9 MS. MORTIMER: No, she hasn't. 10 MR. MYERS: She said to treat 11 depression. Answer it again. 12 MS. MORTIMER: I asked her if it was 13 ever told to her in her days as a sales 14 representative. The other question was -- 15 MR. MYERS: I heard the question. 16 MS. MORTIMER: Obviously you didn't 17 understand it. 18 Q. Was it told to you during your 19 training -- you stated that you don't recall if 20 it was told to you during the training. My 21 question is different, contrary to what counsel 22 says, because I want to know if anybody ever told 23 that to you in your career at Lilly? 24 MS. MORTIMER: I'm not trying to be Page 33 1 argumentative, Larry. 2 MR. MYERS: What's the question? 3 Q. You said that twenty milligrams 4 is the most common dose? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Did anyone ever tell you why 7 eighty milligrams is sometimes used as opposed to 8 the most common dosage of twenty milligrams 9 during your career at Eli Lilly? 10 A. Eighty milligrams -- not to my 11 recollection. 12 Q. What were you told about the 13 safety profile of Prozac or Fluoxetine during 14 your initial training program that began in 15 February of '91? 16 A. That Prozac is very safe in 17 overdose situations, as compared with the older 18 agents such as the tricyclics. 19 Q. Did your trainers during that 20 initial period tell you why they believed Prozac 21 was safer in overdose as opposed to the 22 tricyclics? 23 A. To the best of my knowledge, 24 they told us it was because of the lack of Page 34 1 cardiac effects that Prozac has. 2 Q. Did they show you results of 3 tests or give you any other basis besides the 4 statement that it was because of cardiac effects? 5 A. I don't recall. 6 Q. So you don't know the basis of 7 their statement that it was safe in overdose 8 other than what they told you which was the 9 conclusion that it was a lack of cardiac effects? 10 MR. MYERS: I object to the form, 11 that's not what she said, you mischaracterized 12 her testimony. 13 MS. MORTIMER: You can answer the 14 question. 15 MR. MYERS: If you can. 16 A. What was the question? 17 Q. Did they ever tell you the 18 basis for their statement that Prozac was safer 19 in overdose than tricyclics because of the lack 20 of cardiac effects? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. Do you recall anything else 23 that they told you about the safety profile of 24 Prozac or Fluoxetine during your initial training Page 35 1 period? 2 A. No. 3 Q. You also stated that during 4 that week in your initial training, when you were 5 trained on Prozac or Fluoxetine, they gave you 6 information on the common side effects of Prozac 7 or Fluoxetine, is that true? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What did they tell you about 10 the common side effects of Prozac or Fluoxetine 11 during that initial training session? 12 A. As I recall, nausea, headache, 13 that's all I can recall. 14 Q. Those are the only common side 15 effects you recall they told you resulted from 16 the ingestion of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 17 A. That's all I can recall, yes. 18 Q. During your training session 19 and in that week that you discussed Prozac, did 20 you ever receive information concerning the 21 alleged side effect of suicidal ideation as a 22 result of the ingestion of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 23 A. Say that one more time. 24 MS. MORTIMER: Would you read it back? Page 36 1 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 2 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 3 A. I recall discussing those 4 allegations. 5 Q. How did that subject come up, 6 was that something that they brought up or did 7 somebody ask a question which elicited that 8 information? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. What was said? 11 A. To the best of my knowledge, we 12 discussed that allegations had been raised that 13 Prozac caused suicidal ideation but that there 14 had been no evidence suggesting that to be true. 15 Q. Was any written information or 16 documents shown to you when that representation 17 was made to you that the allegations were untrue? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 Q. Did you see a videotape or did 20 you listen to an audio tape about Prozac and the 21 alleged side effects of suicidal ideation? 22 A. I can't say for sure. 23 Q. Who would know whether you 24 received materials concerning that issue or Page 37 1 whether you viewed a video or listened to an 2 audio tape about that issue at Lilly? 3 A. I would say someone in sales 4 training. 5 Q. Was there a place every morning 6 where you would go to pick up materials for that 7 day's training session so that if I want to talk 8 to somebody at Eli Lilly, I can direct Lilly's 9 attorney to that person to have them get that 10 information for me? 11 A. We went to the same room every 12 day. If there were materials, they were 13 distributed when we were in that room. 14 Q. And the videos were shown in 15 that room if you saw a video? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Do you recall the instructor 18 that made the representation to you that the 19 allegations raised about the causation or the 20 alleged side effect of suicidal ideation from the 21 ingestion of Prozac were untrue? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Do you recall anything else 24 about the discussion concerning suicidal ideation Page 38 1 and its relationship to Prozac? 2 A. That there had just been no 3 evidence to show that that was true. 4 Q. Did the person at Lilly who 5 made that representation give you the results of 6 clinical trials or the results of any testing or 7 any data that would be a basis for that statement 8 that there was no evidence of that allegation? 9 A. I don't remember specific 10 things given to us or shown to us in that regard, 11 that's not to say there were none. 12 Q. So, as you sit here today, you 13 don't recall what basis, if any, you were given 14 for the statement that there was no evidence of 15 the link between suicidal ideation and Prozac 16 ingestion? 17 A. I said I didn't recall what was 18 given to us but that's not to say there was none. 19 Q. Do you have any recollection of 20 who was present, do you have the names of any of 21 the people you were being trained with during 22 that conversation? 23 A. Yes, I recall the names. 24 Q. Could you give me some of them, Page 39 1 please? 2 A. Names of other individuals that 3 were being trained with me, correct? 4 Q. Trained with you and who were 5 present during the discussion about the 6 relationship between suicidal ideation and Prozac 7 ingestion or Fluoxetine ingestion? 8 A. I can remember names of other 9 sales representatives who were being trained with 10 me who would have been in the same sessions that 11 I attended. 12 Q. Okay, what are their names? 13 A. David Biloon, B-I-L-O-O-N, Mary 14 Donna Reeves, Matthew Fink, Christine Perrine, 15 Steve Mack, Curt Ragstead, your guess is as good 16 as mine, those are what I can recall. 17 Q. Is David Biloon still employed 18 by Lilly? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Is Mary Donna Reeves still 21 employed by Lilly? 22 A. To the best of my knowledge. 23 Q. Is Matthew Fink still employed 24 by Lilly? Page 40 1 A. No. 2 Q. Do you know where he lives? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Is Christine Perrine still 5 working at Lilly? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Do you know where she lives? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Does Steve Mack still work at 10 Lilly? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Does Curt Ragstead still work 13 at Lilly? 14 A. To the best of my knowledge, 15 yes. 16 Q. Other than the CNS module that 17 you received, did you receive any other materials 18 in your training with respect to Prozac or 19 Fluoxetine during that initial period, the 20 initial development training? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. Do you keep all the materials 23 that you received during training at your home or 24 in an office somewhere? Page 41 1 A. I have kept some things but 2 some things I cleaned out a while back and I 3 threw away a bunch of stuff. 4 Q. Did you have to take any tests 5 or quizzes during your initial development 6 program? 7 A. We took tests on each of the 8 products we learned about. 9 Q. Were you graded on these tests? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What grade did you receive with 12 respect to your tests on Prozac or Fluoxetine? 13 A. I don't know the exact grade 14 but I know that I passed the first time I took 15 it. 16 Q. And it's your understanding 17 that the chemical name of Prozac is what? 18 A. Fluoxetine. 19 Q. I have just been questioning 20 you on using Prozac and Fluoxetine and I wanted 21 to make sure that you understand that was the 22 chemical name. 23 If I wanted to find out what 24 grade you received on that test with respect to Page 42 1 Prozac, who would I ask at Lilly? 2 A. My best guess would be someone 3 in sales training. 4 Q. Did you receive grades in the 5 mail at the end of your training program? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Did you receive a certificate 8 of any kind? 9 A. Not to the best of my 10 recollection. 11 Q. Do you need to be licensed by 12 the state or any government agency to be a sales 13 representative of these drugs or Lilly products? 14 A. No. 15 Q. What classification of drug is 16 Ceclor? 17 A. Antibiotic. 18 Q. What classification is Axid? 19 A. Anti-ulcer. 20 Q. I'm sorry? 21 A. Anti-ulcer. 22 Q. And what classification of drug 23 is Prozac? 24 A. Antidepressant. Page 43 1 Q. Are Ceclor or Axid ever 2 prescribed for treatment with respect to 3 depression, to your knowledge? 4 A. To my knowledge, no. 5 Q. When did you begin working as a 6 Select Product sales representative after the 7 training? 8 A. April 1st. 9 Q. And when you became a Select 10 Product sales representative, did you detail 11 Prozac at that time? 12 A. Yes, I did. 13 Q. For what indication did you 14 detail Prozac? 15 A. Depression. 16 Q. So when you began to detail 17 Prozac on April 1, 1991, for the indication of 18 depression, you had had only that one week 19 training course with Lilly with respect to that 20 and nothing else, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And when you began detailing 23 Prozac on April 1, 1991, you had never taken any 24 courses in psychiatry, correct? Page 44 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. To get your degree in pharmacy, 3 do you take any medical training courses? I 4 don't know if I'm using the right terms, you 5 know. 6 A. I don't think you are because I 7 don't think that question makes sense. 8 Q. Like do you take anatomy or do 9 you take -- 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. -- courses that would be like 12 those taken of a premed major, things of that 13 nature? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What types of courses did you 16 take to get your degree in pharmacy? 17 A. Chemistry, microbiology, 18 anatomy, pharmacokinetics, pharmacology, organic 19 chemistry, biochemistry, those are some I 20 remember. 21 Q. Is a degree in the medical 22 field or a subset of the medical field like 23 pharmacy required or a prerequisite to get a job 24 as a sales representative for Eli Lilly? Page 45 1 A. No. 2 Q. Who was your employer, what was 3 the entity, was it Eli Lilly and Company 4 throughout the entire time? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Are Dista sales representatives 7 also employees of Eli Lilly and Company? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And the same holds true for 10 Select Product representatives, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 MR. MYERS: Can we take a short break? 13 MS. MORTIMER: Sure. 14 (A SHORT RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 15 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) During the 16 initial development training that you took 17 beginning in February of '91, during that four 18 week period, were you given any information 19 concerning the Wesbecker incident? 20 A. Not to my recollection. 21 Q. Do you know what I'm talking 22 about when I say the Wesbecker incident? 23 A. Yes, I believe I do. 24 Q. What's your understanding of Page 46 1 what happened? 2 A. My understanding is there was a 3 gentleman here in Louisville who shot and killed 4 several people and himself while at his place of 5 employment, Standard Gravure, and that his 6 defense is trying to say that Prozac made him do 7 those shootings. 8 Q. That's not his defense because 9 he's dead, but I understand that. And so during 10 your training session, the Wesbecker incident, 11 and Wesbecker is the gentleman you're alluding 12 to, was never discussed, correct? 13 A. To the best of my knowledge, 14 no. 15 Q. During your training session, 16 you received lectures, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did you also view videos, 19 videotapes? 20 A. We saw some videos, yes. 21 Q. Were there any other forms of 22 information that you were given besides in the 23 form of lectures or videos? 24 A. I don't recall. Page 47 1 Q. Other than the lectures and the 2 videos, obviously you stated before that you 3 received the module and some other written 4 materials, you just can't recall specifically 5 what they were, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. You also stated that other than 8 learning about the drugs, you learned about 9 company policy. What information were you given 10 about company policy and benefits as you 11 identified? 12 A. We went over our insurance 13 benefits, you know, coverage, fill out all those 14 forms, we discussed sampling, we discussed like 15 what was legal as far as detailing goes, we 16 discussed car usage, car policies, those are some 17 things I can recall. 18 Q. Other than the insurance forms, 19 which I take it were for your personal insurance, 20 what other forms were you told or given training 21 on how to fill out during that time period? 22 A. Call cards, sampling logs, call 23 reports, working letters, medical letters, 24 supplemental shipments, product complaints, Page 48 1 preprinted literature. 2 Q. Anything else that you can 3 recall? 4 A. Not that I can recall. 5 Q. What are call cards? 6 A. Those are cards that indicate 7 the sampling activity, and in 1991 also indicated 8 a call activity of each day with each specific 9 physician. 10 Q. Are these cards something that 11 you would turn in to a department within Lilly 12 after you filled them out or is this a type of 13 document that you kept for your own personal use? 14 A. They're a triplicate document 15 with a computer read card. One copy is sent in 16 to the company, a middle copy is kept for receipt 17 purposes if sampling was involved by the sales 18 representative and a bottom copy is given to the 19 physician. 20 Q. Is it your understanding that 21 Lilly used these call cards prior to your 22 beginning employment with the company or is this 23 something that started when you started work 24 there? Page 49 1 A. It's my understanding it had 2 been a practice, in practice previous to my 3 employment. 4 Q. What's a sampling log? 5 A. That's a one page sheet that we 6 record our daily sampling activity on a month by 7 month basis. 8 Q. Do you have to turn that 9 document in as well? 10 A. Yes, it's turned in every 11 month. 12 Q. To whom do you turn it in? 13 A. The procedure has changed since 14 October of this year, we are now computerized and 15 things are sent by computer. Previous to that 16 date, they were sent to Eli Lilly and Company, I 17 don't know what department, we had specific 18 envelopes that routed it to a special department. 19 Q. When you began work in February 20 of '91, did you work out of an office, a business 21 office of Lilly somewhere or did you work out of 22 your home? 23 A. My home. 24 Q. And I'm sorry, when I said -- I Page 50 1 think I said February of '91 when you started 2 detailing, but in error. I believe you said it 3 was April of '91, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. So when you started in April of 6 '91, you worked out of your home, correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And you continued and worked 9 out of your home throughout your entire 10 employment with Eli Lilly and to the present? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Were you provided with a home 13 computer in October of 1993? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Were all of the sales 16 representatives provided with a home computer as 17 of October of '93? 18 A. No, it's still in roll out so 19 some sales representatives have a computer, 20 others do not. 21 Q. Do you know if Christy Hoffman 22 has a home computer? 23 A. Yes, she does. 24 Q. And what kind of data bases can Page 51 1 you get into at Lilly with your home computer? 2 A. I'm not very good with 3 computers and to the best of my knowledge, we 4 really -- we can't log into any of their 5 information. 6 Q. So when you received the home 7 computer, did you receive a handbook? 8 A. We received usage manuals. 9 Q. What kinds of things are you 10 supposed to use your computer for in your 11 position now or as of October of '93? 12 A. We use the computer to record 13 sampling activity, call activity, we now keep 14 notes, profile notes in the computer, special 15 programs can be kept in the computer. 16 Q. What are special programs? 17 A. An example might be if you 18 decide to call on a town an increasing number of 19 times as compared with the past, in order to see 20 the physicians more frequently and hopefully 21 generate more sales. That's a vague example, I 22 don't have any special programs in my computer. 23 Q. Do you know if Christy Hoffman 24 has any in her computer? Page 52 1 A. No, I don't. 2 Q. Did you receive any special 3 hands on training in the use of the home computer 4 by any individual from Eli Lilly? 5 A. Yes, we had a three day 6 training course. 7 Q. Do you have a file within your 8 home computer that you strictly use, strictly 9 keep information concerning Prozac? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Is the usage manual you 12 received something generated by Lilly or is it 13 like a document or a manual that's generated by 14 the company that manufactured the computer? 15 A. We have a manual from the 16 computer company and then we have a manual that 17 explains the specific application that deals with 18 our daily activities. 19 Q. And when you say your daily 20 activities, that means your daily activities as a 21 sales representative, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 MS. MORTIMER: We would like a copy of 24 that manual. Page 53 1 MR. MYERS: You might like it but 2 unless you can show some connection between a 3 computer system put in place in October of 1993, 4 to a shooting incident in September of 1989, your 5 request is going to be declined. 6 MS. MORTIMER: Well, Larry, this goes -- 7 this kind of is the same objection you made 8 yesterday. I assume even though you've not 9 stated it in your objection that you're objecting 10 to relevance and I believe you waived that 11 objection by producing an individual for a 12 deposition who we were under the impression 13 detailed to Doctor Coleman prior to the incident. 14 By producing this person, who did not begin work 15 with Lilly until 1991, you waived any objection 16 to relevance so that's my position. If we could 17 get on with it. 18 MR. MYERS: No, I just want to make -- 19 your impression about whether this witness 20 detailed the physician in question before or 21 after is simply mistaken based on obviously an 22 erroneous reading of the file materials which 23 made clear who detailed Doctor Coleman before the 24 fact and after the fact. This witness is here by Page 54 1 agreement. You can make a request for whatever 2 you want to make a request for but I'm telling 3 you that if it relates to anything put in place 4 in October of 1993, you are going to have to make 5 some sort of showing how it's connected with this 6 matter. 7 MS. MORTIMER: Just for the record, the 8 documents that were produced with respect to this 9 witness and the witness that was deposed 10 yesterday, Christy Hoffman, were documents that 11 related to visits with Doctor Lee Coleman prior 12 to the incident and there was never an impression 13 made within the letters that were sent with the 14 documents that the documents did not relate to 15 the witnesses who were going to be deposed. 16 Consequently, we've made a trip to Kentucky and 17 are deposing individuals about information that 18 they received after the fact which was something 19 that we were misled about and I will stand by 20 that and I know my co -- 21 MR. MYERS: There's a written discovery 22 response. 23 MS. MORTIMER: I would appreciate it if 24 you would let me finish. Page 55 1 MR. MYERS: Go right ahead. 2 MS. MORTIMER: I've seen the written 3 discovery response and I've seen the 4 correspondence between your office and Mister 5 Stopher's office and Mister Ring's office and 6 it's been our impression by the documents that 7 were produced pursuant to these depositions and 8 all the other correspondence and discovery, that 9 these witnesses detailed to Doctor Coleman prior 10 to the incident, so it's our position that any 11 objection you make with respect to relevance has 12 been waived by you producing these witnesses for 13 their depositions and I'm not going to go any 14 further. 15 MR. MYERS: The record of what was said 16 with respect to these witnesses, yesterday's and 17 today's and the two former sales reps, is 18 abundantly clear, we've not waived anything. If 19 you want to terminate the deposition, that would 20 be fine but there's been no waiver of anything. 21 I suggest you move on and ask this witness about 22 the only thing that may have any bearing on this 23 case and that's her relationship with Doctor 24 Coleman. That's the reason she's here to Page 56 1 testify, that's the reason yesterday's witness 2 was here to testify. 3 MS. MORTIMER: I know how to take a 4 deposition and I'll continue the deposition as I 5 see fit, all right. 6 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Going on, 7 what's your understanding of what detailing is, 8 Miss Waddell? 9 A. Detailing in my understanding 10 is the description of a specific patient and then 11 why in that patient our products might be a good 12 choice of therapy. 13 Q. Were you given a job 14 description during your initial training that 15 would tell you what your duties were as a sales 16 representative? 17 A. I can't say for sure. 18 Q. Do you know if a job 19 description exists for your position? 20 A. I can't say for sure. 21 Q. What were you -- what 22 information were you given when you practiced 23 detailing in your training? 24 A. I don't understand what you Page 57 1 want. 2 Q. Were you given information or 3 handbooks on how to be a sales representative, 4 how to approach a medical provider and sell the 5 product? 6 A. We were given information that 7 explained what different specialists of 8 physicians, what their specialty meant. We were 9 not given a manual, per se, that said detailing. 10 Q. Were you trained, did you 11 receive any sales training during that initial 12 session of training? 13 A. We were taught or we went over 14 some different selling techniques. 15 Q. You stated that you practiced 16 detailing, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Was it kind of a role play 19 situation where one of the instructors or perhaps 20 another trainee would play a physician or 21 psychiatrist and you would practice detailing on 22 that individual? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. Were you given examples Page 58 1 of questions and answers that were approved by 2 Lilly for you to give to the doctors or to the 3 psychiatrists during that time period? 4 A. We were using -- in our 5 practicing, we were using approved promotional 6 materials. 7 Q. Just so I'm clear, it's true 8 that the only information that you were 9 authorized to give to the physicians was 10 information that was first approved by Lilly, 11 correct? 12 A. Approved by our legal 13 department, correct. 14 Q. So as a sales representative, 15 whether it was as a Select Products sales 16 representative or as a Dista sales 17 representative, you were never allowed to give 18 information that you may have received, you know, 19 through your reading of a newspaper article or 20 your reading of a manual without first getting 21 approval from the legal department at Lilly, 22 correct? 23 A. As we are -- we are not allowed 24 to use unapproved promotional materials, yes. Page 59 1 Q. I believe you also stated that 2 you discussed in your training program the legal 3 aspects of detailing or what you can legally do 4 as a detailer, is that true? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What information were you given 7 about that at your training session? 8 A. As I recall, number one, you 9 can only promote the products for indicated uses, 10 and that you should only use approved promotional 11 materials. 12 Q. You also discussed sampling in 13 your initial training session. Do you have any 14 idea if Lilly or any of your superiors at Lilly 15 had to report sampling or the samples that you 16 were given, you were giving to the doctors to any 17 government entity? 18 A. It's my understanding, yes. 19 Q. Do you know what government 20 entity that Lilly has to report the sampling to? 21 A. I can't say with certainty. 22 Q. You just know that if you gave 23 samples of products you would record those 24 samples and then you would send your records to Page 60 1 Lilly, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And they would provide you with 4 envelopes in which you were to send the various 5 forms to Lilly? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And that would have been to 8 your Indianapolis corporate office, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Did it say on the different 11 envelopes the post office box number or anything 12 of that nature that would tell you where 13 specifically the envelopes were going at the 14 corporate office that you can recall? 15 A. I think there may have been 16 drop codes on some of the envelopes. 17 Q. Is there an index that would 18 list the drop codes and the various departments 19 that coincided with the drop codes? 20 A. I can speculate but I don't -- 21 MR. MYERS: Don't speculate. 22 Q. You've never received any such 23 index if it even exists, correct? 24 A. No. Page 61 1 Q. That is correct, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Miss Waddell, have you reviewed 4 anything in preparation for your deposition 5 today? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Have you been read any 8 documents or any statements in preparation for 9 your deposition today? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Have you met with an attorney 12 for Lilly prior to your deposition today? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. With whom did you meet in 15 preparation for your deposition today? 16 A. I met with Mary Huff, Larry 17 Myers, and Ed Stopher. 18 Q. Did you only have one meeting 19 with these three people prior to the deposition 20 today? 21 A. I met with Ed one time and then 22 I met with Mary and Larry another time. 23 Q. Did you meet with Mary and 24 Larry today? Page 62 1 A. We met for a while prior to the 2 beginning and then in addition I had met with 3 them one other time. 4 Q. So when did you meet with Ed 5 Stopher the first time, if you can recall? 6 A. Like the 1st of this month. 7 Q. For how long did you meet with 8 him? 9 A. About an hour. 10 Q. Where did you meet with him? 11 A. At his office. 12 Q. And then when was the first 13 time you met with Ms. Huff and Mister Myer? 14 A. Last week. 15 Q. For how long did you meet with 16 these two individuals? 17 A. About three hours. 18 Q. Where did you meet these 19 individuals? 20 A. Here. 21 Q. And then the last time you met 22 with Ms. Huff and Mister Myer, was here today 23 prior to the deposition? 24 A. Yes. Page 63 1 Q. How long did you meet with them 2 prior to today's deposition? 3 A. Thirty minutes. 4 Q. Have you met with anybody else 5 that represented themselves as being a member of 6 the legal department at Lilly other than Ms. 7 Huff? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did you have to send any 10 documents to the legal department at Lilly? 11 A. I gave Ed a copy of my profile 12 notes. 13 Q. Are profile notes different 14 than call cards? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. Were you trained on how 17 to use profile notes in the initial training 18 session? 19 A. I don't remember a specific 20 training on use of profile notes. 21 Q. Are profile notes something 22 that you keep for your own benefit or do you send 23 a copy of the profile notes into the Lilly office 24 as well? Page 64 1 A. Profile notes are for your own 2 benefit. 3 Q. So on call cards though, you 4 could have information concerning what happened 5 at each visit, correct? 6 A. The only information on call 7 cards previous to October of this year is product 8 sampled and details or products discussed and 9 location of that meeting. 10 MS. MORTIMER: If they've not been 11 produced already, I would like copies of the call 12 cards that reflect any visits with Doctor Coleman 13 prior to and after the incident. 14 MR. MYERS: You know our position and I 15 suggest instead of turning this deposition into a 16 document production, that you make any request 17 you have in writing and we'll respond, but I 18 think you understand what our position is. 19 MS. MORTIMER: I'll make them all in 20 writing but I'm just telling you a request in 21 oral. 22 MR. MYERS: And I'm telling you the 23 same thing. 24 MS. MORTIMER: Why don't you let me Page 65 1 finish before you start talking. 2 MR. MYERS: I learned that habit from 3 Nancy. 4 MS. MORTIMER: I don't have that habit 5 so I would appreciate the courtesy. I would like 6 copies of the call cards at least for the time 7 period prior to September 14, 1989, as soon as 8 you can get them to me and with respect to the 9 other issues, we can deal with that as time 10 comes. 11 MR. MYERS: She hasn't worked -- 12 MS. MORTIMER: Not with her. I want 13 copies of call cards, she testified that call 14 cards were in existence prior to when she started 15 as far as she knows so my request to you, and I'm 16 just doing it now, if you want to do it off the 17 record I don't care, but I'd like copies of call 18 cards prior to September 14, 1989, from anybody 19 who detailed to Doctor Coleman. 20 MR. MYERS: Put it in writing. 21 MS. MORTIMER: I'll put it in writing 22 but I'm alerting you to that request now. Thank 23 you. 24 MR. MYERS: Thank you for that alert. Page 66 1 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) What were 2 you told during your training session about 3 promotional materials, you know, were you given 4 leeway in deciding what promotional materials you 5 could give to the various physicians or were you 6 told on the initial visit you have to give this 7 material and on the second visit you have to give 8 another set of material, how did that work if 9 they told you anything? 10 A. You're provided with 11 promotional materials and you're not told how to 12 use the promotional materials or in what order to 13 use those promotional materials. 14 Q. How are sales representatives 15 paid? 16 A. You have a base salary and then 17 all employees of Eli Lilly and Company get 18 contingent compensation. 19 Q. Is there a rate of compensation 20 that's special for sales representatives as 21 opposed to office workers within Lilly? 22 A. As far as? 23 Q. You said that all employees 24 gets some sort of compensation other than their Page 67 1 base salary. Based upon what? 2 A. Contingent compensation is 3 based upon company sales and growth. A 4 percentage is set and all employees of the 5 company receive that percentage of their salary 6 as compensation. 7 Q. In your training session, were 8 you ever given information or did you ever have a 9 discussion about incentives that could be given 10 to medical providers other than promotional 11 materials such as the ability to take somebody 12 out to lunch to discuss a product or something of 13 that nature? 14 MR. MYERS: I object to the form and 15 the use of the term incentive but answer it if 16 you can. 17 A. So what was the question? 18 Q. Were you given any information 19 on whether or not you could use incentives as 20 part of your detailing? 21 MR. MYERS: Same objection. Answer it 22 if you can. 23 A. We don't use incentives as part 24 of our sales presentation. Page 68 1 Q. And your definition of 2 incentives would be what? 3 A. Incentives to me sounds like 4 money. 5 Q. So incentives to you other than 6 money -- you only define incentives as money, you 7 don't think of giving samples as an incentive or 8 something like that, correct? 9 A. That's not how I viewed it. 10 Q. Okay. I would like in asking 11 my questions, it's important to know what your 12 definition of incentives is as opposed to mine 13 is. 14 A. Right. 15 Q. So your definition of 16 incentives is giving a doctor or medical provider 17 money to prescribe products and as far as you 18 know, Lilly didn't do that, correct? 19 A. Correct, Lilly does not do 20 that. 21 Q. Are you authorized to take a 22 physician to lunch or to take him to dinner to 23 discuss products if the doctor is only available 24 during that time? Page 69 1 A. Yes, we are allowed to take a 2 physician to lunch. 3 Q. Do you provide anything else to 4 the medical providers other than samples that are 5 promotional items like pens or something like 6 that? 7 A. We provide pens and pads and 8 calendars, that's all I can recall. 9 Q. Are you authorized to offer a 10 psychiatrist whose been named in a lawsuit as a 11 result of his prescription of Prozac, 12 indemnification on behalf of Eli Lilly? 13 A. We have an indemnification 14 policy, any physician can request a copy of that 15 policy. 16 Q. When did that policy go into 17 effect, if you know? 18 A. I think around May of '91. 19 Q. Do you know who at Lilly 20 drafted that policy and had it instituted? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you have a copy of that 23 policy? 24 A. I don't think so. Page 70 1 Q. Are you authorized as a 2 salesperson to offer the medical provider 3 information on the indemnification policy if he's 4 named in a lawsuit as a result of his 5 prescription of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 6 A. It's my understanding we are 7 allowed to offer information on the incentive or, 8 excuse me, indemnification policy to any 9 physician who requests it. 10 Q. So it's not something you bring 11 up, it's something that if they ask, you can give 12 information on? 13 A. It's something that if they ask 14 I can give them information on or I can tell 15 them. I can say we have this policy if you would 16 like to receive further information on it. 17 Q. Do you have any personal 18 knowledge as to whether Doctor Lee Coleman 19 received information on the indemnification 20 policy that Lilly instituted? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you have any personal 23 knowledge as to whether Doctor Lee Coleman is 24 being indemnified with respect to this lawsuit Page 71 1 A. I'm sorry, do I have any? 2 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 3 whether Doctor Lee Coleman is being indemnified 4 for the lawsuit that he is involved in as a 5 result of prescribing Prozac to Mister Wesbecker? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Does this indemnification 8 policy apply in instances where a medical 9 provider is named in a lawsuit as a result of 10 prescribing any Lilly drug or is it a policy that 11 is instituted just for individuals who are named 12 as defendants as a result of prescribing Prozac 13 or Fluoxetine? 14 A. I think it's Prozac 15 specifically. 16 Q. If I wanted to ask somebody at 17 Lilly about this indemnification policy, who 18 would I talk to? 19 A. Mary. 20 Q. Mary who? 21 A. Huff. 22 Q. Other than the attorney that is 23 representing Lilly in this case, is there any 24 administrative person in Lilly that would have Page 72 1 information concerning this indemnification 2 policy that you're aware of? If you're not, tell 3 me. 4 A. All of our requests for 5 indemnification information were sent to Mary 6 Huff. 7 Q. Now in your position with 8 Lilly, you detail to psychiatrists, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Is it true that you detail only 11 to psychiatrists now? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. When did that start? 14 A. March of 1993. 15 Q. Let me make sure I have the 16 chronology right. In April of 1991, you began 17 your work as a Select Product sales 18 representative, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you remained a sales 21 representative for the Select Products division 22 until, I know I've asked you this, but what year? 23 A. March of 1993. 24 Q. And so when you -- and you were Page 73 1 a Dista representative as of March of '93, 2 correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And when you began as a Dista 5 representative, you began as a Dista 6 representative who only detailed to 7 psychiatrists, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Is that a new position that's 10 been instituted by Lilly? 11 A. I don't think so. 12 Q. Okay. And as of March of 1993, 13 was Doctor Lee Coleman a psychiatrist who you 14 were assigned to detail? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What Lilly products were you 17 assigned to detail to Doctor Lee Coleman? 18 A. My primary responsibility would 19 be Prozac. 20 Q. Are there any other Lilly drugs 21 that you are assigned to detail to Doctor 22 Coleman? 23 A. Not specifically. 24 Q. As of March of 1993, what drugs Page 74 1 were you detailing to any psychiatrists? 2 A. My primary responsibility is 3 Prozac. 4 Q. Are there any other drugs other 5 than Prozac that you've been detailing since 6 March of 1993? 7 A. Not with regularity. 8 MR. MYERS: I have an emergency phone 9 call I need to return. Can we take a break? 10 MS. MORTIMER: Sure. 11 (A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) 12 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) We were 13 talking about the drugs that you were authorized 14 to detail as of March of 1993 when you became a 15 Dista products sales representative who detailed 16 to psychiatrists only. I believe that you 17 testified that Prozac was your primary product. 18 Could you detail other drugs at that point 19 besides Prozac if you were requested by a 20 psychiatrist for another drug? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What other drugs were you 23 authorized to detail other than Prozac, as of 24 March of 1993? Page 75 1 A. Our promoted products are 2 Ceclor, Axid, Prozac, Humulin, and Lorabid. 3 Drugs that I am familiar with are Ceclor, Axid, 4 and to some extent Lorabid and Prozac obviously. 5 If I felt I had the knowledge to answer a 6 physician's question, then I would answer the 7 question, otherwise I would request specific 8 medical information for that physician on that 9 particular product. 10 Q. Okay. As of March of 1993, 11 have you received training on Humulin and Lorabid 12 before you began work in March of '93? 13 A. I have never received any 14 formal training on Humulin. Yes, I had received 15 some training, some of the training on Lorabid. 16 Q. What is Lorabid? 17 A. Lorabid is an antibiotic. 18 Q. And what is Humulin? 19 A. Humulin is Insulin. 20 Q. What's the procedure if you 21 needed to request medical information if you 22 didn't feel comfortable giving information to a 23 medical provider about a drug that they may have 24 requested information on? Page 76 1 A. If it was a simple request that 2 could be answered through just some of our 3 promotional literature, I would then just obtain 4 some of that promotional literature either 5 through Indianapolis or another representative. 6 If it was a more specific question, a question 7 for an indicated use or a question that I just 8 did not have any idea, I would call Indianapolis 9 and request that specific information or I could 10 write a medical letter to Indianapolis and 11 request that specific information. 12 Q. Who would you call in 13 Indianapolis for information? 14 A. Our medical department. 15 Q. Is there a separate medical 16 department that concentrates only on Prozac and 17 Fluoxetine? 18 A. It's my understanding there are 19 people within the medical department who 20 specialize on each product. 21 Q. Do you know who currently 22 specializes in Prozac within the medical 23 department? 24 A. I think there are several Page 77 1 people. 2 Q. Do you know the identities of 3 these people? 4 A. One person's name is Kevin. 5 Q. So if I wanted to talk to 6 somebody who worked in the medical department 7 strictly on Prozac, I could at least ask for a 8 Kevin there or obviously have an attorney for 9 Lilly ask for a Kevin there and he could give me 10 the name of somebody who worked on Prozac? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And then if you wrote a letter, 13 would you write the letter to the medical 14 department as well to request information? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Have you ever in your life 17 participated in any research with respect to 18 Prozac or Fluoxetine? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Have you ever in your life 21 participated in a -- the conducting of a clinical 22 trial with respect to Prozac or Fluoxetine? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Have you ever done any testing Page 78 1 on any individual concerning Prozac or 2 Fluoxetine? 3 A. No. 4 MS. MORTIMER: Why don't you show her 5 Exhibits 1 and 3. 6 Q. Miss Waddell, I'm going to ask 7 you to look at Hoffman Exhibit 1 and Hoffman 8 Exhibit 3, which have been previously marked for 9 identification. If you could take a few moments 10 to go through those documents. If you would 11 like, you can scan them and then I'll ask you 12 about the specific parts and whether you wrote 13 specific parts and then I'll ask you to read them 14 in more detail. 15 (THE WITNESS COMPLIES.) 16 Q. Have you had an opportunity to 17 look at them? 18 A. (Witness moves head up and 19 down.). 20 Q. Okay. I realize that you 21 haven't read them and I'm not going to ask you 22 any specific questions with respect to the 23 narrative yet, but if you could tell me what the 24 forms are and it looks like, and tell me if I'm Page 79 1 wrong, the forms in Exhibit 1 and the forms in 2 Exhibit 3 are basically the same, would you agree 3 with that? 4 A. The forms are basically the 5 same, yes. 6 Q. What are those forms? 7 A. The form is a profile note. 8 Q. So you recognize these form 9 that are in Exhibits 1 and 3? 10 A. I recognize the forms, yes. 11 Q. Are forms such as this, which 12 are titled, quote, Physician Profile, close 13 quote, on the top, forms that are provided to the 14 Dista or any sales representative at Lilly? 15 A. Yes, prior to October of 1993, 16 for myself. 17 Q. Did you receive physician 18 profile forms like this when you began your work 19 in March of 1993? 20 A. Yes, I received blank forms of 21 this type. 22 Q. When you received the forms, is 23 the portion -- and I'll direct your attention to 24 the last page of Exhibit 3. Page 80 1 A. Uh-huh. 2 Q. Is your handwriting anywhere on 3 the last page of Exhibit 3? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Where is your handwriting? Is 6 it in the middle portion where it says -- or 7 below where it says, quote, Other Profile 8 Information, close quote, and then all the 9 handwriting down from that point? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And also where it says 12 receptionist, I believe it says Beverly, is that 13 your handwriting as well? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. So you've obviously seen this 16 page before? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. When you got this particular 19 part of the physician profile, was the top 20 portion that appears to be typed in, or put in 21 other than manually, already in there for you? 22 In other words, did somebody else put in Lee S. 23 Coleman and the information that was listed in 24 the typed portion? Page 81 1 A. That was sent to me printed, 2 yes. 3 Q. Up in the top right-hand corner 4 in a box that has, quote, R-E-F period, N-O 5 period, close quote, there's a number below the 6 part I just quoted. Do you know what that number 7 represents? 8 A. That's Doctor Coleman's 9 reference numbers which just -- which is an 10 arbitrary number set by Eli Lilly and Company to 11 help keep track of that particular physician. 12 Q. What types of documents are you 13 aware of that that number is used on to identify 14 Doctor Coleman? 15 A. Prior to 19 -- October of 1993, 16 the reference -- or excuse me, the profile notes 17 is any sampling, call cards, and requests for 18 supplemental shipments are the three that I can 19 think of. 20 Q. At least you know that you used 21 that number in your working with the documents 22 that you just identified, to identify Doctor -- 23 A. I did before October of '93. 24 Q. In October of '93, how did that Page 82 1 change? 2 A. When I got my computer, we no 3 longer have these reference numbers as we did 4 before. 5 Q. What do you use in lieu of the 6 reference number? 7 A. Just the name. 8 Q. In the same column that the 9 reference number is listed, below that it says, 10 quote, Request, close quote, and there's a date 11 under that. What does the word request refer to, 12 if you know? 13 A. I believe it means that that 14 was the date that a new blank profile sheet for 15 that physician was requested. 16 Q. Did you request that blank 17 profile sheet? 18 A. Not specifically. I requested 19 profile sheets at the time I took the territory 20 over in March for each of the physicians that I 21 would be calling on. 22 Q. Other than the blank profile 23 sheet which you received that you subsequently 24 filled out that's referenced on the last page of Page 83 1 Exhibit 3, did you also receive pursuant to your 2 request the filled out physician profile sheets 3 contained in exhibit -- Hoffman Exhibit 1 and the 4 first two pages of Hoffman Exhibit 3? 5 A. Did I receive those? 6 Q. Yes. 7 A. No, I did not. 8 Q. So before today and when I 9 asked you to look at these two exhibits, Hoffman 10 Exhibit 1 and Hoffman Exhibit 3, you had not seen 11 the physician profiles that were not filled out 12 by you, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. I'm going to direct your 15 attention to the upper right quadrant of the 16 first page of Exhibit 3. I realize that you just 17 testified that you had not seen them today and I 18 don't know if you'll know the answer to this 19 question, but in the upper righthand quadrant it 20 says, quote, Addition, unquote, and there's a 21 date under that. Do you have any idea what that 22 word addition refers to in the context of this 23 document? 24 A. My belief is that that means Page 84 1 that is when that physician was added as a 2 physician that we would call on or this 3 representative chose to call on. 4 Q. So prior to you actually 5 detailing to Doctor Lee Coleman, you never read 6 the notes that are reflected in the entirety of 7 Hoffman Exhibits 3 and the entirety of the first 8 two pages of Hoffman Exhibit 1? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you know who else detailed 11 to Doctor Coleman before you did? 12 A. Christy Hoffman did. 13 Q. Do you know if anyone else 14 detailed to Doctor Lee Coleman other than you and 15 Christy Hoffman? 16 A. I have heard the name Lucy 17 Mudd. 18 Q. Have you ever spoken with Lucy 19 Mudd about -- 20 A. I've never spoken with her 21 period. 22 Q. Other than Lucy Mudd and 23 Christy Hoffman and yourself, are there any other 24 individuals that you're aware of that detailed to Page 85 1 Doctor Lee Coleman? 2 A. There's somebody else but I 3 don't remember the name. 4 Q. Does the name Ross Kushner 5 refresh your recollection in that regard? 6 A. Yes, and I've just heard that 7 in regard to this. 8 Q. So this is the name you heard 9 today? 10 A. Yes, I hadn't heard it 11 previously. I'm not saying right this second but 12 I mean I'm not familiar with that person. 13 Q. So you've never spoken with 14 Ross Kushner, correct? 15 A. No. 16 Q. That is correct, right? 17 A. Yes, that is correct. 18 Q. Have you ever spoken with 19 Christy Hoffman about her detailing visits to 20 Doctor Lee Coleman? 21 A. I have spoken with Christy 22 Hoffman about Doctor Coleman. I don't recall 23 ever talking about a specific visit and exactly 24 what she said. Page 86 1 Q. What did you speak with Christy 2 Hoffman about with respect to Doctor Lee Coleman? 3 A. When I first took over this 4 territory in March of 1993, many of the 5 physicians in the Louisville area that I 6 currently call on had been in Christy's 7 territory. At that time I took over the 8 territory, we sat down and went through 9 physicians that would be transferred from her 10 territory to mine and talked about some basic 11 information about those physicians. 12 Q. What specifically did she tell 13 you about Doctor Lee Coleman, if you recall? 14 A. I remember that she told me 15 that he was Wesbecker's doctor, and that he had 16 been another special -- had been another type of 17 physician previous to being a psychiatrist but 18 because of his eyesight and that he's now blind 19 in one eye, he then went into psychiatry. 20 Q. Do you recall anything else, 21 any other topics she discussed with you about 22 Doctor Lee Coleman? 23 A. At some point in time, she told 24 me that he was a pretty good Prozac user. Page 87 1 Q. Did she give you the basis for 2 that statement? 3 A. Not that I recall. 4 Q. When you say he was a good 5 Prozac user, it's -- he, himself, did not ingest 6 Prozac? 7 A. Not to my knowledge. I'm 8 sorry, that he prescribed a fair amount of 9 Prozac, sorry. 10 Q. Did she tell you anything other 11 than the fact that he was Wesbecker's doctor? In 12 other words, did she tell you any specifics of 13 what he said, if anything, about the Wesbecker 14 case or this lawsuit? 15 A. Not that I recall. 16 Q. Was anyone else present when 17 you had the discussion with Christy Hoffman about 18 Doctor Coleman and his relationship to the 19 Wesbecker case? 20 A. No, I don't believe so. 21 Q. In all of your visits with 22 Doctor Lee Coleman, have you ever had a 23 discussion with Doctor Coleman about Wesbecker? 24 A. No, not that I remember. Page 88 1 Q. And I'm talking when I say 2 Wesbecker about him as a patient individually or 3 as with respect to this case. 4 A. Not that I recall. 5 Q. In your visits with Doctor Lee 6 Coleman, have you ever discussed the fact that 7 there have been some allegations that suicidal 8 ideation is a side effect of the ingestion of 9 Prozac? 10 A. I don't ever recall any 11 discussions like that with Doctor Coleman. 12 Q. In your career as a sales 13 representative for Eli Lilly, be it during the 14 time period that you were at Special Products -- 15 MR. MYERS: Select. 16 Q. -- Select Products 17 representative or a Dista representative, has any 18 doctor or physician or other medical provider 19 ever refused to prescribe Prozac because of the 20 Wesbecker incident and the allegations that 21 suicidal ideation is a side effect of Prozac? 22 A. There have been some physicians 23 who have been hesitant to prescribe Prozac before 24 they received adequate information on the Page 89 1 scientific data that is out there. 2 Q. And the adequate information 3 that you alluded to is the information that you 4 had provided to them that was approved by Lilly? 5 A. I have given physicians 6 information regarding this topic. Additionally, 7 as time has gone on, there have been journal 8 articles that physicians have read independently, 9 television shows, magazine articles, that have 10 also conveyed the information that Prozac has not 11 been caused or has not been -- there's been no 12 causative link between Prozac and suicidal 13 ideation. 14 Q. Okay. Who are the physicians 15 that were hesitant to prescribe Prozac that you 16 dealt with? 17 A. I mean, I can't say for sure, 18 just in the course of time, sometimes physicians 19 might say at that -- let me start over. When I 20 first started with the company, there were 21 physicians who expressed some concern about this 22 issue. Who those physicians were, I do not know 23 specifically. 24 Q. How many physicians were there Page 90 1 that expressed that concern to you? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Less than five? 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. Would you have kept a record of 6 the physicians who would have expressed a concern 7 about Prozac? 8 A. I might have noted in my notes 9 that they had said that they expressed some 10 concern, I can't say for certain. 11 Q. Were these physicians who 12 expressed concern, were any of them 13 psychiatrists? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So the only people that you 16 recall expressing a concern about prescribing 17 Prozac were physicians, and that would have been 18 during your time as a sales representative for 19 the Select Products division, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Did you keep physician profiles 22 for those doctors who expressed a concern as 23 well? 24 A. I'm sorry? Page 91 1 Q. Did you keep physician profiles 2 during your Select Product representative career? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. Do you still have those? 5 A. No, I don't. 6 Q. What did you do with them? 7 A. I gave them to the person who 8 took over my territory. 9 Q. Who was that? 10 A. When I started with Lilly, I 11 had one territory, I had a Select Products 12 territory from my beginning date of employment 13 until about April of '92, at which time a vast 14 majority of my territory changed and there were -- 15 I want to say, there was more than one 16 representative who took parts of my territory and 17 I gave those notes to whoever was taking that 18 part of my territory. 19 Q. Okay. If I wanted to know who 20 took over your territory at anytime during your 21 career, who would I ask Lilly's attorney to 22 contact? 23 A. I would guess territory 24 services. Page 92 1 Q. And that's a separate 2 department within the Indianapolis office? 3 A. Corporate office, yes. 4 Q. You stated that, if I'm clear, 5 now you do these physician profiles on the 6 computer, correct, or you can? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. Do they at Lilly have this 9 information in the computer for you? And when I 10 say this information, I mean the physician 11 profile notes that other representatives filled 12 out prior to you taking over that particular 13 medical provider. 14 A. We became computerized -- I 15 became computerized in October of 1993, my call 16 activity is now recorded in the computer as well 17 as my profile notes from the day I started using 18 the computer and to the future I can get my 19 profile notes in the computer. Additionally, if 20 another sales representative calls on that 21 physician, I will also have access to their 22 profile notes. This is only since October of 23 1993. 24 Q. Okay. Page 93 1 A. The computer does show call 2 activity prior, and I don't know how far back, 3 but only that a call was made and there are no 4 notes. 5 Q. How big was your territory when 6 you received some concerns from these physicians 7 about prescribing Prozac? 8 A. Pretty big. 9 Q. How big generally, you know? 10 MR. MYERS: Geographically? 11 Q. No, I mean how many physicians, 12 I'm sorry, how many physicians? 13 A. About two hundred and seventy 14 total physicians. 15 Q. Okay. Was the concern 16 expressed more often than not when you went to a 17 physician to detail Prozac or is this something 18 that happened once and not very often? 19 A. It happened some but let me 20 clarify in general that the concern most times 21 was concern that was not concern on the 22 physician's part as much as concern on the 23 patient's part in that the physician felt 24 comfortable with Prozac but that sometimes if Page 94 1 they offered this to a patient, the patient would 2 feel uncomfortable. I heard those kind of 3 complaints most frequently. 4 Q. Did the physicians who 5 expressed those kinds of concerns or the 6 physicians that told you that their patients were 7 leery of taking Prozac tell you why their 8 patients told them they were leery of taking 9 Prozac? 10 A. Because of all the negative 11 media coverage. 12 Q. And specifically the negative 13 media coverage regarding what indication? 14 MR. MYERS: What -- 15 Q. What -- I'm sorry. What did 16 they give you information as to the negative 17 media coverage, what the topic was besides 18 obviously Prozac? 19 A. Just the claims that Prozac 20 caused violent behavior in certain individuals. 21 Q. You stated that some physicians 22 were hesitant before adequate information was 23 received and you stated that adequate information 24 that you were referring to was information that Page 95 1 you had given to them by way of promotional 2 materials as well as journal articles they had 3 read on their own or magazine articles they had 4 read on their own which may have conveyed 5 information to them as well, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. But you don't recall the 8 specific physician who expressed these concerns, 9 correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And do you recall the journal 12 articles or the magazine articles that the 13 physicians told you they read? 14 A. There's a Time Magazine article 15 that talks about the Church of Scientology, there 16 were a couple of Wall Street Journal articles 17 that talked about some of the information 18 surrounding some of these allegations. 19 Q. Was the Time Magazine article 20 concerning the Church of Scientology an article 21 that you were authorized to distribute by Lilly 22 as part of your detailing duties during that 23 time? 24 A. Yes. Page 96 1 Q. So was it the Time -- was it 2 that the Time Magazine article that they read was 3 an article that you gave them or was it that the 4 Time Magazine article was something they read on 5 their own and talked to you about? 6 A. Some physicians read it on 7 their own, some physicians we gave it to. 8 Q. You don't recall the numbers of 9 physicians, correct? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And as with respect to the Wall 12 Street Journal articles, were they also articles 13 that you were authorized to distribute to 14 physicians by Lilly? 15 A. There were two Wall Street 16 Journal articles that were sent out to all 17 physicians and all pharmacists, and then later on 18 we were able to also distibute these articles to 19 physicians. 20 Q. And when you say they were sent 21 out, do you mean they were sent out by Lilly? 22 A. They were sent in the mail, 23 yes. 24 Q. By Lilly, correct? Page 97 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And I take it by way of your 3 previous testimony that you never discussed the 4 allegations that suicide -- suicidal ideation is 5 a side effect of Prozac with Doctor Coleman. It 6 follows that he never expressed a concern to you 7 about prescribing Prozac to his patients? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And as far as you can recall, 10 no one has ever told you that Doctor Lee Coleman 11 expressed a concern to them about prescribing 12 Prozac to his patients? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Were all of the articles and 15 promotional materials that you distributed to the 16 doctors, whether they were physicians or 17 psychiatrists, materials that disagreed with the 18 hypothesis that suicidal ideation is a side 19 effect of Prozac? 20 MR. MYERS: Wait a minute. When you 21 say all, you mean on that issue? You said all 22 the promotional materials. There can be a bigger 23 universe of promotional materials. 24 Q. Did you ever distribute Page 98 1 materials, whether they're articles or 2 promotional materials, that agreed with the 3 allegations that suicidal ideation is a side 4 effect of Prozac? 5 A. No, I did not. 6 Q. That's fine. 7 MR. MYERS: Do you need to explain 8 that? 9 THE WITNESS: I just -- 10 MS. MORTIMER: If you want to ask her a 11 question, you ask her a question. 12 MR. MYERS: She started to say 13 something. 14 MS. MORTIMER: There was no question 15 pending. 16 MR. MYERS: She's going to finish her 17 answer. 18 MS. MORTIMER: If you want to ask her 19 to finish her answer, go ahead and she can finish 20 it. As far as I am concerned, she has finished 21 her answer because there is no question pending. 22 MR. MYERS: If you need to explain or 23 finish your answer, then do that. 24 A. The one thing I was going to Page 99 1 say was that by the time I got into the 2 territory, physicians in general felt very 3 comfortable that there was no causative relation 4 between suicide and Prozac and they did not 5 request with any -- with any regularity 6 information showing, providing that proof. 7 MS. MORTIMER: I'll object to the 8 narrative answer. 9 MR. MYERS: Fine. Go ahead and ask 10 another question. 11 MS. MORTIMER: I would appreciate it, 12 Larry, if you would let me finish my objections 13 before you make your statements criticizing them. 14 MR. MYERS: It's customary that the 15 person asking the question not also make 16 objections. 17 MS. MORTIMER: It's customary that the 18 witness be allowed to answer responsibly to the 19 questions asked and not be allowed to give a 20 narrative and I object to the narrative. 21 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Based on the 22 statements that you just gave, those statements 23 are based upon your personal experience as a 24 Dista representative, correct? Page 100 1 A. I was talking more as a select 2 representative. 3 Q. Okay. The statement that you 4 just made about physicians in general had no 5 problem, or whatever you just said, with Prozac 6 in prescribing Prozac, that was a statement that 7 you based on your personal experience, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. But it was still true that some 10 physicians expressed a concern about Prozac at 11 some point during your career as a Select 12 Products representative? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You mentioned pharmacists in 15 detailing it to pharmacists, is that something 16 that you did as a Select Products representative? 17 A. As a Select Products 18 representive, I was supposed to make two pharmacy 19 calls per day. 20 Q. And you were told the pharmacy 21 upon which you were to make these calls? 22 A. I was not told specific 23 pharmacies, no. 24 Q. Were you -- so you could choose Page 101 1 any pharmacy that you saw as you drove down the 2 street? 3 A. With a general consideration 4 that it was in my territory, yes, within my 5 territory. 6 Q. How many times were you 7 supposed to call on Doctor Coleman when you began 8 or when you were assigned to detail to him? 9 A. The general trend or the 10 general state of being is that you call on a 11 physician once a month. 12 Q. Do territories' sizes, and now 13 I'm talking geographically, vary according to the 14 specific part of the country? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. When you were assigned to 17 Doctor Coleman, what was your territory at that 18 point? 19 A. My territory is Louisville, 20 Lexington, and Indianapolis, metro areas. 21 Q. And during the entire period 22 that you have been a Dista sales representative 23 for psychiatrists only, that has been your 24 territory and remained your territory? Page 102 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Approximately how many 3 psychiatrists do you detail to within that 4 territory? 5 A. I believe that I have 6 approximately a hundred and eighty physicians who 7 are on my key list. 8 Q. Who provides this key list to 9 you? 10 A. You receive a general key list 11 when you begin in a territory, then you have the 12 prerogative to add to or subtract from that list 13 within the geographical area that you are given 14 as your territory. 15 Q. Do you have to have permission 16 from the district manager before you can remove a 17 psychiatrist from the list? 18 A. No. 19 Q. When you were a Select Products 20 representative, who was your district manager? 21 A. Marv Lich. 22 Q. Did he remain your district 23 manager throughout the entire time you were a 24 product representative? Page 103 1 A. No. 2 Q. After Marv Lich, who was your 3 district manager? 4 A. Ray Rogers. 5 Q. Anyone else? 6 A. Not a Select Product 7 representative. 8 Q. Out of what district office did 9 Marv Lich work? 10 A. Marv worked out of the 11 Nashville, Tennessee office. 12 Q. Would you have ever had a 13 reason to go to the Nashville office? 14 A. I was at the Nashville office 15 when I initially interviewed and then I was at 16 the Nashville office one other time that I can 17 recall for a one day meeting. 18 Q. What was the meeting about? 19 A. Prozac. 20 Q. What topics were discussed with 21 respect to Prozac? 22 A. The indemnification policy, the 23 use of the Time Magazine article and the Wall 24 Street Journal article, the use of the Prozac Page 104 1 counseling guide, and that's all I remember. 2 Q. How long has the Prozac 3 counseling guide been in existence? 4 A. I believe since about May of 5 '91. 6 Q. Does the Prozac counseling 7 guide discuss the Wesbecker case? 8 A. No, not specifically. 9 Q. Does it discuss lawsuits or 10 anything with respect to litigation that is 11 currently pending concerning Prozac? 12 A. It does not discuss lawsuits or 13 litigation. 14 Q. Does it discuss the allegations 15 that suicidal ideation and/or violent aggressive 16 behavior is a side effect of Prozac ingestion or 17 Fluoxetine ingestion? 18 A. It does not say that. It does 19 not say that that is a side effect of Prozac. It 20 does say this is geared, this is a pamphlet 21 geared towards the patient, it says that you may 22 have heard some things about Prozac in the news 23 and then it says your physician is a medical 24 expert and your comments and questions should be Page 105 1 directed towards your physician. Additionally, 2 it says that no link has been established between 3 Prozac and suicidal behavior. 4 Q. Does it give a basis for that 5 representation that no link has been established, 6 for that assertion? 7 A. I can't tell you specifically 8 if it's referenced in that booklet or not. 9 A. I do know that those guides are 10 packaged to be given to the physician and there's 11 a package insert included in that package given 12 to the physician and then the physician can hand 13 each booklet out to a patient. 14 Q. So the Prozac counseling guide 15 is something that can be given to a patient, 16 correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Is there another guide that is 19 given to the physician that discusses the Prozac 20 counseling guide which can be given to the 21 patient? 22 A. There was a physician's 23 counseling guide, which was the exact replica of 24 the patient counseling guide with the exception Page 106 1 it was larger and there was, to my recollection, 2 a package insert attached to that particular 3 piece. 4 Q. Did you ever give either the 5 physician counseling guide or the Prozac 6 counseling guide to Doctor Coleman? 7 A. Not that I recall. 8 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 9 whether Doctor Coleman received the Prozac 10 counseling guide or the physician counseling 11 guide? 12 A. I can't say that specifically. 13 Q. When you went to this meeting, 14 you received a copy of this Prozac counseling 15 guide, correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Were you also given a copy of 18 the physician counseling guide? 19 A. I believe so, yes. 20 Q. Do you currently have copies of 21 these two fliers? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. Is this something that 24 you were given to be used as part of your Page 107 1 detailing? 2 A. It was something that, yes, 3 could be used in conjunction with your detailing. 4 Q. Did you receive some sort of 5 documentation that was not to be distributed to a 6 physician or a patient but would help you discuss 7 either guides, whether it's the Prozac counseling 8 guide for the patients or the physician 9 counseling guide for the physician, that you can 10 recall? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Did these counseling guides, 13 either one, contain any warnings concerning 14 Prozac? 15 MR. MYERS: Wait a minute. Before you 16 answer, let me object to the form to the extent 17 that the use of the term warning as it relates to 18 at least one of those guides may have some legal 19 meaning to it. But go ahead and answer if you 20 can. 21 A. To my recollection there is no 22 section that says warning. There is a section 23 that says these are some side effects that you 24 might experience when you take Prozac. Page 108 1 Q. Okay. Is akathisia a side 2 effect of Prozac? 3 A. I believe that it's listed in 4 our package insert as a possible side effect. 5 Q. Is it listed as a common side 6 effect or is that distinction made in the package 7 insert? 8 A. I believe a distinction would 9 be made in the package insert. I can't tell you 10 which -- under which categorization that would 11 be. 12 MS. MORTIMER: I would like copies of 13 those two guides if you can provide them to me. 14 MR. MYERS: I think they've already 15 been produced among all this mass of documents. 16 MS. MORTIMER: If they have not, I'll 17 check with Nancy, I have not seen a copy, I don't 18 know if she has, but if Nancy has not, I'll put 19 it in writing. 20 MR. MYERS: Put it in writing. I think 21 they have been produced. 22 Q. Okay. And what district office 23 did Ray Rogers work out of? 24 A. The Indianapolis office, Page 109 1 district office. 2 Q. Okay. Did you ever have 3 occasion to go to the Indianapolis district 4 office? 5 A. I don't recall any specific 6 times when I went to the Indianapolis district 7 office as a select representative. 8 Q. When you became a Dista 9 products sales representative, who was your 10 district manager? 11 A. Curtis McManus. 12 Q. Out of which district office 13 does Curtis McManus work? 14 A. Indianapolis. 15 Q. Is there only one Indianapolis 16 district office? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you know the address of that 19 office? 20 A. I believe it's 3905 Vincennes 21 Road. 22 Q. Have you ever had an occasion 23 to go to the Indianapolis district office in your 24 capacity as a Dista representative? Page 110 1 A. I go to the Indianapolis 2 district office with some regularity now that 3 Indianapolis is in my territory. 4 Q. For what purpose would you go 5 to with regularity to that office? 6 A. To use the copier, or if I 7 needed to speak with my manager and I knew that 8 he was going to be in that day, I might pop in. 9 Those are the two general reasons. 10 Q. Do you have an independent 11 recollection of your visits with Doctor Lee 12 Coleman? 13 A. I don't know what you mean by 14 independent recollection. 15 Q. Do you recall the specifics of 16 each visit, such as what was discussed and the 17 dates of the visits? 18 A. Off the top of my head? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. No. 21 Q. So looking at the last page of 22 Exhibit 3, I believe, Exhibit 3 would refresh 23 your recollection as to the dates of the visits 24 that you had with Doctor Coleman and what, if Page 111 1 anything, was discussed, correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And is it your practice to 4 memorialize each visit that you have with Doctor 5 Coleman on a physician profile? 6 A. It's my practice, yes. 7 Q. So it would be safe to say that 8 every visit that you had with Doctor Coleman from 9 March 3, 1993, to the last entry which I believe 10 is October 14, 1993? 11 A. In general, yes, it is my 12 practice to record profile notes. I cannot 13 guarantee you that there was not one visit in 14 here that I forgot to record, but yes, in 15 general, it is my practice. 16 Q. Is it correct that the last 17 numerical indication on this last page of Exhibit 18 3 which, I believe says October 14 of '93, is 19 that true, does that say October 14 of '93? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Have you seen Doctor Lee 22 Coleman since October 14 of '93? 23 A. Yes, I believe I dropped 24 samples off in there one time after this. Page 112 1 Q. Okay. Have you ever seen 2 Doctor Lee Coleman in the situation other than an 3 office visit where you were detailing, or a 4 detailing visit? In other words did you see him 5 at a seminar or any other places? 6 A. Not that I recall. 7 Q. In the top half portion of the 8 page that you're looking at, it says territory 9 number and then there's a number underneath it, 10 does that represent your territory number? 11 A. That's what my territory number 12 used to be. 13 Q. What's your territory number 14 now? 15 A. 9579 Louisville psych. 16 Q. In the middle of the document 17 under, quote, Other Profile Information, close 18 quote, could you read the two lines of narrative 19 that are there? 20 A. It says BLD one eye, meaning 21 blind in one eye, Wesbecker M.D. 22 Q. And again I know you already 23 testified to this but so it's clear for the 24 record, all the handwriting on this one page Page 113 1 which is the last page or the third page of 2 Hoffman Exhibit 3 is yours, correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Why did you note Wesbecker 5 M.D., do you remember the circumstances for that? 6 A. To the best of my recollection, 7 that was as I stated earlier when Christy and I 8 went through some of these physicians and some 9 general information and I jotted that down at 10 that time period. 11 Q. Why was it important to you at 12 that time period, if you can recall, to write 13 that he was the Wesbecker M.D.? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. Okay. Going down under where 16 it says, quote, Indication, close quote, there it 17 begins the first line of narrative in that 18 section. If you could read the portion that to 19 my understanding memorializes your visit with him 20 on March 3, 1993. 21 A. It says P-Z versus Paxal. 22 Q. What were the circumstances 23 under which you made that note and what does that 24 note refer to? Page 114 1 A. That means Prozac versus Paxal. 2 That was my first visit with Doctor Coleman, I 3 remember Christy was with me, that means that I 4 was stating some of the advantages Prozac had 5 over Paxal and in a certain patient type. 6 Q. Do you recall the specific 7 patient type? 8 A. No, I don't, although it would 9 be a depressed patient. 10 Q. Do you recall what, if any, 11 materials that you gave Doctor Coleman on March 12 3, 1993? 13 A. I would not have given him any 14 materials or I would have noted that. What 15 materials we talked over, I do not recall. 16 Q. Okay. So it is your personal 17 custom and practice to note on these physician 18 profiles what, if any, materials you give to the 19 medical provider, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Would there ever be a situation 22 where you gave Doctor Coleman some materials but 23 you would not note it on this physician profile? 24 A. I would say it could be Page 115 1 possible. 2 Q. But generally, you try to make 3 sure that you note on the profile what in fact 4 you gave him? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Do you recall whether the 7 patient that you were discussing on March 3, '93 8 was a hypothetical patient or a patient that 9 Doctor Lee Coleman actually had? 10 A. All patients I describe are 11 hypothetical patients. 12 Q. Do you have any specific 13 recollection of Doctor Lee Coleman discussing a 14 specific patient with you? 15 A. The only, and this is kind of 16 wide, but he did ask information which is noted 17 later about one of his patients that he had. 18 Q. We'll get to that then. Do you 19 have any other recollection of what went on in 20 the March 3, 1993, visit? 21 A. No. 22 Q. The next visit I believe is 23 April 6, 1993, correct? 24 A. Correct. Page 116 1 Q. Could you read that entry for 2 me, please? 3 A. Depression campaign and DARTS. 4 Q. Could you please tell me what 5 that refers to? 6 A. Depression campaign was the 7 National Depression Awareness Campaign that Eli 8 Lilly and Company helped sponsor with the 9 National Mental Health Association and I was just 10 explaining our part in that campaign to Doctor 11 Coleman. And then DARTS are depression 12 information pamphlets geared towards the patient 13 that are put out by the National Institute of 14 Mental Health, and many times those are displayed 15 in the office. 16 Q. So those are authorized to be 17 distributed to the patients, correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And are they product specific 20 to Prozac? 21 A. The DART pamphlets are not, 22 they talk about antidepressant medications in 23 general. 24 Q. To your recollection have you Page 117 1 ever discussed a drug other than Prozac with 2 Doctor Coleman that Lilly distributes? 3 A. Not to my recollection. 4 Q. What is Paxil? 5 A. It's an antidepressant. 6 Q. Is it a tricyclic? 7 A. No. 8 Q. When you stated earlier that on 9 March 3, 1993, you were discussing the 10 differences or you were comparing Prozac versus 11 Paxil, were you discussing that with information 12 that you were provided from Lilly? 13 A. I'm not sure what I was using. 14 Q. Since you have a degree in 15 pharmacy, can you give information to 16 psychiatrists or physicians that you learned of 17 pursuant to your degree that were not necessarily -- 18 the information was not necessarily given to you 19 by Eli Lilly? 20 A. If a physician asks me a 21 question that I feel like I can answer as a 22 pharmacist, I will qualify that this is what I 23 learned in pharmacy school, or as a pharmacist, 24 we learned this. Page 118 1 Q. Okay. And in every other 2 instance you would give information that was 3 approved by Eli Lilly? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Would you qualify the 6 information that you gave that you received from 7 Eli Lilly by stating that this is the information 8 that I have been given by Eli Lilly? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Have you ever told a 11 psychiatrist or physician not to use Prozac for 12 any reason? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. What reasons did you 15 tell a physician or psychiatrist not to use 16 Prozac? 17 A. You would not use Prozac if a 18 patient was on an MAOI inhibitor or if they had 19 just been taken off one. That's just a 20 particular instance I can think of. If for some 21 reason a physician would describe to me a patient 22 that there was a known contraindication for the 23 product, I would definitely tell them not to 24 prescribe Prozac for that patient. Page 119 1 Q. What do you mean by a known 2 contraindication for the product? 3 A. Information listed within our 4 package insert under contraindications. 5 Q. Okay. And what is an MAOI 6 inhibitor? 7 A. A monoamino oxidase inhibitor, 8 it's a type of antidepressant drug. 9 Q. Does your April 6, 1993, note 10 tell you in any way that you distributed 11 materials to Doctor Coleman on that day? 12 A. I would say -- my best -- I 13 don't know how to say this. I would say that I 14 did leave DART pamphlets with him on that day, 15 yes. 16 Q. Because usually when you 17 discuss DARTS, you would have some sort of 18 literature from that program? 19 A. When I say DARTS, I'm referring 20 to in general a patient pamphlet and I would say 21 here we talked about these and that I left some 22 for him to distribute to his patients. 23 Q. Okay. Are there any DART 24 pamphlets that discuss the ingestion of Prozac or Page 120 1 Fluoxetine and the alleged side effects of 2 suicidal ideation? 3 A. To my knowledge, DARTS just 4 talks about -- and once again, a DART is a 5 particular pamphlet, not a variety of them, and 6 I'm referring to one in general, talks about 7 taking antidepressants as a class, not as an 8 individual drug product. 9 Q. Do you know if at the program 10 that you discussed that was run by the medical, 11 was it the Medical Health Association? 12 A. Mental. 13 Q. Do you know whether at that 14 Mental Health Association program that was put on 15 in association with Lilly whether there was any 16 discussion about the ingestion of Prozac or 17 Fluoxetine and the alleged side effects of 18 suicidal ideation and violent aggressive 19 behavior? 20 A. First of all, it was a campaign 21 and not a program, and this program was aimed at 22 the general public for depression awareness. 23 Q. Was there any discussion within 24 that about Prozac? Page 121 1 A. No, this was aimed towards the 2 public to help them understand the signs and 3 symptoms of depression. 4 Q. The next entry appears to be 5 June 21, 1993, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Could you read that for me, 8 please? 9 A. It says Q And then CME. 10 Q. What does that mean to you? 11 A. Q In my notes means that it was 12 a very quick visit. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. CME refers to a specific piece 15 of promotional literature that we have that is an 16 accredited continuing medical education piece. 17 Q. Okay. Do you have any 18 recollection as to whether the CME addressed 19 Prozac? 20 A. In this particular booklet, 21 yes, Prozac is mentioned. 22 Q. And this is a booklet that is 23 developed by Eli Lilly? 24 A. Yes. Page 122 1 Q. And within that booklet, is the -- 2 is there any discussion about the ingestion of 3 Prozac and/or Fluoxetine and the alleged side 4 effects of suicidal ideation or violent 5 aggressive behavior? 6 A. There's a section, I believe, 7 on suicide in that booklet. 8 Q. In that booklet, does the 9 section disagree with the allegation that 10 suicidal ideation and/or violent aggressive 11 behavior are side effects of the ingestion of 12 Prozac or Fluoxetine? 13 A. I can't say for certain that it 14 even deals with that issue at all. 15 Q. Okay. 16 (A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) 17 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Before we 18 took a break, we were discussing the June 21, 19 1993 visit you had with Doctor Coleman and I was 20 directing your attention to the last page of 21 Exhibit 3 which is a physician profile form that 22 you filled out for your visit with Doctor 23 Coleman. Have I exhausted your recollection of 24 the events that occurred on June 21, 1993, with Page 123 1 your visit with Doctor Coleman? 2 A. I believe so, yes. 3 Q. Do you recall what, if 4 anything, you gave Doctor Coleman other than the 5 piece of promotional literature you refer to in 6 your notes as the CME? 7 A. No. 8 Q. The next visit is July 12, 9 1993, correct? 10 A. No, that's the 13th. 11 Q. Okay. My contacts are getting 12 a little foggy, I think. 13 A. I think it's a 13, I'm sure 14 that's a 13. 15 Q. Could you read that entry for 16 me, please? 17 A. Stokes, dash, uses all, has 18 seen differences, side effects, anxious and 19 insomnia patients. 20 Q. Let's just start with the 21 Stokes. 22 A. Stokes is a reprint that we 23 currently have and all the other information 24 relates to discussions that we had per that Page 124 1 reprint. He told me that he uses all of the 2 serotonin reuptake inhibitors and he has seen 3 differences between each of them, those 4 differences being primarily in side effects. 5 There's also a section in that reprint where it 6 talks about a depressed patient who suffers from 7 symptoms of anxiety and insomnia. 8 Q. So the entire entry that you 9 have for July 12th or 13th, 1993, has to do with 10 the Stokes reprint that you distributed and not 11 with respect to any specific patient that he was 12 seeing, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. I'm going to show you what's 15 been previously marked as Hoffman Exhibit 15 for 16 identification. The document is entitled, quote, 17 Fluoxetine, colon, A Five-Year Review. Is that 18 the Stokes article that you were referring to 19 just now? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did you read this Stokes 22 article? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Does this article discuss the Page 125 1 allegations of suicidal ideation as an alleged 2 side effect of Prozac ingestion? And you don't 3 have to read it. If you don't recall, just tell 4 me. 5 MR. MYERS: Well -- 6 MS. MORTIMER: If she recalls from 7 reading it before, she can tell me. If she 8 doesn't recall, that's fine. 9 A. No, I don't recall. 10 Q. But this is something -- this 11 Stokes article which is in Hoffman Exhibit 15 is 12 an authorized reprint that was approved by Eli 13 Lilly for you to distribute to physicians or 14 psychiatrists, correct? 15 A. Oh, okay, I'm sorry. I didn't 16 think this was complete but I see now. Yes, this 17 is an approved report. 18 Q. Okay. What were the other 19 serotonin reuptake inhibitors that you discussed, 20 if you recall, on that visit of July 12 or 13, 21 1993? 22 A. It would have been Zoloft and 23 Paxil. 24 Q. Do you recall what specifically Page 126 1 you discussed with respect to the comparison 2 between Zoloft and Paxil and Prozac? 3 A. No, not specifically. 4 Q. But your reference refers to a 5 discussion about the comparison that may have 6 been contained in the Stokes article between 7 Zoloft and Paxil serotonin reuptake inhibitors 8 and Prozac, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Okay. The next entry looks to 11 be August 17, 1993, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Would you read that into the 14 record, please? 15 A. Gastric bypass info, comma, ten 16 milligram. 17 Q. Could you explain what that 18 refers to, please? 19 A. Doctor Coleman had asked me a 20 question about Prozac and its use in a patient 21 with gastric bypass. 22 Q. And that's not an indication 23 that you authorized to detail Prozac for, 24 correct? Page 127 1 A. The only indication that we're 2 approved for is depression. This was a specific 3 patient that he was talking about who had had 4 gastric bypass surgery and he was asking about 5 Prozac effects in that type of patient. 6 Q. I see. And what, if anything, 7 did you represent to him in response to his 8 question? 9 A. I told him I didn't know but 10 that I would check with our medical department on 11 his specific question and see what information 12 they had. 13 Q. Did you in fact do that? 14 A. Yes, I did. 15 Q. And what steps did you take to 16 find out what, if any, medical information Eli 17 Lilly had to distribute to him to answer his 18 question? 19 A. I don't remember if I wrote in 20 or called in but I left the message or got a 21 message to our medical department on this 22 specific question. Then one of our physicians, 23 Susan Blomgard, I'm not exactly sure what the 24 last name is, it was B-L-O-M something, got back Page 128 1 with me on VMX and indicated there was no 2 specific medical letter in reference to a gastric 3 bypass patient. She then gave me the information 4 relating to this question and said that if I 5 needed to, she could write a special letter or I 6 could just convey this information to Doctor 7 Coleman. 8 Q. What did you choose to do? 9 A. I just wrote down the 10 information directly from her VMX and then took 11 that back in to Doctor Coleman on the 23rd. 12 Q. When you say VMX, what do you 13 mean? 14 A. Our voice mail system. 15 Q. Going back to the July 12th or 16 13th visit of '93, do you recall what, if 17 anything, you distributed to Doctor Coleman by 18 way of any kind of materials other than the 19 Stokes article that we have talked about? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Would anything refresh your 22 recollection in that regard? 23 A. Not that I know of. 24 Q. On your August 17, 1993 visit, Page 129 1 did you distribute any materials to Doctor 2 Coleman? 3 A. Not that I know of. 4 Q. The next entry is August 23, 5 1993, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Could you read that entry for 8 me, please? 9 A. There's an arrow pointing 10 backwards and it says gastric info. 11 Q. Does that mean that you gave 12 the information that you were given by Susan 13 B. to the Doctor? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What, if anything, did you give 16 to the Doctor other than the information that you 17 received pursuant to the voice mail? 18 A. Nothing that I know of. 19 Q. Did you orally give him this 20 information or did you write it down or 21 distribute any kind of written materials to him? 22 A. I gave him the piece of paper 23 that I had written off from the VMX. 24 Q. Okay. Page 130 1 A. And I also told him if he 2 needed to speak with a physician or needed 3 further information that that could be arranged 4 also. 5 Q. Other than giving the written 6 document that you just described and telling him 7 a physician would talk to him if he wanted to 8 have her talk to him, did you give him any other 9 information through written materials or 10 promotional pieces or anything of that nature on 11 August 23, 1993? 12 A. Not that I know of. 13 Q. The next visit is September 21, 14 1993? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What does that say, if you can 17 read it for the record? 18 A. It says P-Z, hyphen, broken 19 bones, parentheses, Beverly. 20 Q. And P-Z refers to Prozac? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. What does the balance of that 23 entry refer to? 24 A. Doctor Coleman's secretary, Page 131 1 Beverly, fell and broke her wrist very, very 2 badly, a compound fracture, and I believe that I 3 jokingly mentioned that if he needed to -- if he 4 was going to need extra Prozac because of Beverly 5 being depressed, just to let me know; although, I 6 remember, it was all, you know, it was jest. 7 Q. I understand. Other than 8 having that conversation about Beverly and her 9 broken bone, is there anything else that you 10 recall discussing with Doctor Coleman on that 11 day? 12 A. No. 13 Q. The next item on that line is 14 10 slash 14, which I assume refers to an October 15 14th, 1993, visit or potential visit, correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Did you in fact see Doctor 18 Coleman on October 14, 1993? 19 A. I was in the office on that 20 day, yes. 21 Q. And you didn't write any notes 22 that I have reflected on the last page of Exhibit 23 3. Do you recall what in fact occurred on that 24 day? Page 132 1 A. No, I don't, and it wasn't 2 anything significant or I would have recorded it. 3 Q. When you went to see Doctor 4 Coleman -- I'm finished with the exhibit. When 5 you went to see Doctor Coleman on these visits, 6 did you have an agenda that you -- of things you 7 wanted to talk about with Doctor Coleman on every 8 visit that was consistent on every visit? 9 A. I don't understand what you 10 mean by consistent on every visit. 11 Q. Is there a specific topic that 12 you discussed or that you wanted to discuss with 13 Doctor Coleman on every visit? For instance, did 14 you ask him on every visit how many patients he 15 had currently on Prozac or something of that 16 nature? 17 A. I don't know if I understand 18 what you're asking, but I did not consistently 19 ask him the same thing every single visit I was 20 in there. 21 Q. So there wasn't something that 22 you wanted to -- some kind of information that 23 you wanted to elicit from him at every visit or 24 there wasn't something that you wanted to discuss Page 133 1 at every visit? 2 A. That was the same every time? 3 Q. Correct. 4 A. No, I don't believe. 5 Q. On every occasion that you saw 6 him, did you -- let me ask it this way, I'll 7 withdraw the last attempt at a question. What 8 was the procedure -- I know you're a sales 9 representative, but did you actually fill out an 10 order form or do anything of that nature when you 11 saw these doctors, how did that work? You made 12 your sales visit and convinced the doctor that 13 the doctor should prescribe Prozac or Prozac is a 14 good drug for some of his patients. What would 15 be the next procedure with respect to the doctor 16 actually getting the drug or whatever? 17 A. My job is probably a little 18 misleading being called sales representative 19 because I do not -- I am not involved in any 20 types of exchange of goods for money. There is 21 no true sales that goes on. What I do is go into 22 a physician's office, talk about a particular 23 patient and why in that patient type our drug 24 would be a good choice for that patient. Page 134 1 Q. When you say you will talk 2 about a particular patient, it's a hypothetical 3 patient as you stated before? 4 A. Correct, not a real patient 5 that they've seen, it's one that I'm making up 6 where our drug would be appropriate to use. 7 Q. Would that be an example of 8 something that you would talk about at every 9 visit? I understand that it would probably be a 10 different hypothetical patient on every visit, 11 but would it be that at every visit you would 12 discuss a different type of hypothetical patient 13 and the potential for prescribing Prozac for that 14 actual type? 15 A. If time allowed. Some of these 16 visits were not what you would say sit down and 17 talking and chatting, some of them were very 18 quick interactions with the physician. 19 Q. What was your purpose in going 20 to see Doctor Coleman? 21 A. My purpose in seeing Doctor 22 Coleman is to assure his continued prescribing of 23 Prozac. 24 Q. And what steps did you take to Page 135 1 assure his prescribing of Prozac? 2 A. What I tried to do is to make 3 certain that Doctor Coleman has the information 4 that he needs as he sees his patients, and if he 5 would see a patient who was depressed, that he 6 would have the information he needs to feel 7 comfortable prescribing Prozac for that certain 8 patient. 9 Q. Is there anything else that you 10 would do generally to assure his prescribing of 11 Prozac to his patients other than the dispensing 12 of information to him that was approved by Lilly? 13 A. We do leave starters that can 14 be used when a physician starts a patient on a 15 medication. If they would like to give them some 16 free samples to make sure that the patient can 17 tolerate the medication, we give the samples if 18 the physician would like them. 19 Q. Is there anything else you can 20 think of that you would use or do? 21 A. I ask the physician if there is 22 any information he needs or anything that I can 23 provide him to make him feel, you know, more 24 comfortable about using Prozac in a certain Page 136 1 patient. 2 Q. Now I know that for a time 3 period when you were a Select Products 4 representative, you did not detail to 5 psychiatrists, and then beginning in March of 6 '93, you did start detailing Prozac to 7 psychiatrists. Is there any difference between 8 the way you detail to a general practitioner or 9 medical doctor as opposed to detailing to a 10 psychiatrist or pharmacist on the third hand or 11 was it basically the same kind of process? 12 A. I would say it's the same sales 13 process although obviously psychiatrists' wants 14 and needs are going to be different from a 15 primary care which are going to be different from 16 a pharmacist's needs. 17 Q. What have you found in your 18 experience as a sales representative to be the 19 wants and needs of a psychiatrist as opposed to a 20 physician and/or a pharmacist with respect to 21 information that they need concerning Prozac or 22 Fluoxetine? 23 A. A primary difference between 24 primary care physicians and psychiatrists would Page 137 1 be diagnosis. Psychiatrists are trained very 2 well in diagnosing depression and other mental 3 illnesses, whereas primary care are not as 4 trained on making that diagnosis. Therefore, 5 some of our promotional activities with a primary 6 care physician might be directed towards just the 7 diagnosis as opposed to psychiatry where your 8 efforts might be directed more towards therapy 9 once the patient is diagnosed. 10 Q. So a physician may get more 11 material with respect to what depression actually 12 has been held to be by certain physicians, as 13 opposed to a psychiatrist who wouldn't need that 14 information because he's already been trained in 15 that regard? 16 MR. MYERS: When you say a physician, 17 you mean a primary care physician? 18 MS. MORTIMER: Correct. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Who generated the promotional 21 material that you received to do your job as a 22 Select Product representative and a Dista product 23 representative within Lilly? I understand that 24 Lilly generated the promotional material, but do Page 138 1 you know what department was in charge of that? 2 A. I would say marketing plans. 3 Q. Is that the name of the -- 4 specific name of the department, marketing plans? 5 A. I believe so. 6 Q. Is there a specific Prozac 7 marketing department? 8 A. Prozac marketing plans. 9 Q. Do you know who in fact is the 10 head of that department? 11 A. I believe it's Jim Lancaster. 12 Q. Do you know how long Jim 13 Lancaster has been the head of Prozac marketing 14 plans? 15 A. No. 16 MS. MORTIMER: If you could show her 17 Hoffman Exhibit 2. 18 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 2 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 19 Q. I'm going to show you a 20 document that's been marked as Hoffman Exhibit 2 21 for identification. If you could take a moment 22 to look at that document. 23 A. I'm familiar with it. 24 Q. Okay. So you've seen this Page 139 1 document before? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. Could you identify what 4 this document is? 5 A. It's a little blue card that is 6 a reference guide for sales representatives' 7 reporting of adverse drug reactions. 8 Q. Is this something that you 9 received when you were being trained initially to 10 be used throughout your work as a sales 11 representative, be it for Select Products or for 12 Dista? 13 A. Yes, I believe. 14 Q. Do you know how long sales 15 representatives have been receiving this blue 16 card which is depicted in Exhibit 2? 17 A. No, I don't. 18 Q. In the first column, under 19 sales representative, the second number, is that 20 a voice mail number? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is that what VMX number means? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. In the first column as well, Page 140 1 the third subtitle is, quote, Drug, slash, 2 Medical Device Information. Then underneath that 3 there are various subheadings. One says -- the 4 first one says Drug, slash, Medical Device Names, 5 do you see that? 6 A. Uh-huh. 7 Q. What does that refer to? 8 A. That means when you're calling 9 in this adverse drug report, what drug are you 10 referring to or what medical device. We also 11 have a medical device division. 12 Q. But you don't detail medical 13 devices, correct? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Is that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And the drug name that you 18 give, is it the chemical name or the trade name, 19 is it Prozac or Fluoxetine? 20 A. I give the trade name, Prozac 21 or whatever drug. 22 Q. Okay. And then the second 23 subheading under Drug/Medical Device Information 24 is, quote, Adverse Experience, close quote. What Page 141 1 were you told or what information were you given 2 that defined adverse experience for you? Was 3 there some sort of definition that someone gave 4 to you as to what exactly an adverse experience 5 is? 6 A. To the best of my knowledge, an 7 adverse experience is anything negative that 8 happens while the patient is taking a medication 9 that is ours. 10 Q. And you would report anything 11 that happened to someone in a negative way while 12 they were taking Prozac regardless of whether the 13 adverse experience was found to be a cause or 14 caused by Prozac? 15 A. Right, causative relation 16 doesn't have to be established. 17 Q. Were you given any kind of book 18 or manual that would tell you how to identify an 19 adverse experience? For example, if someone got 20 a rash, was it identified in the book as a rash 21 or was it identified in a book for you somewhere 22 to be something other than a rash, like a skin 23 problem or something, do you kind of know what 24 I'm getting at? Page 142 1 A. (Witness moves head from side 2 to side.). 3 Q. Were you ever given some kind 4 of book that would show you how to identify the 5 adverse experience for the person that you were 6 reporting it to other than the way you received 7 the information? 8 A. I don't believe so. 9 Q. So basically you would receive 10 information about an adverse experience and you 11 would just simply report the information that you 12 received in any way you could to the Lilly 13 Company? 14 A. Correct. And if they had any 15 further questions, they would contact the 16 reporter, the physician. 17 Q. Underneath patient outcome, 18 there are several questions. Are these questions 19 that you have to ask the physician or anyone that 20 reports an adverse experience to you? 21 A. No, those are not questions 22 that you have to ask, those are just some 23 examples of questions that would be good to ask 24 the physician or the reporter. Page 143 1 Q. When you see the people that 2 you are assigned to, physicians and 3 psychiatrists, are you required to elicit adverse 4 experience information? In other words, when you 5 go there, one of the things you have to ask is 6 whether any adverse experiences have been found 7 while someone has been on Prozac? 8 A. No, I'm not required to ask 9 that. 10 Q. What happens when you receive 11 information about an adverse experience? Just 12 give me the general procedure that you follow. 13 A. We are supposed to report that 14 to the company within twenty-four hours of 15 receiving the information, and then I just call 16 this phone number and then this card just gives 17 you a step by step of the process of the 18 information that they need. 19 Q. Have you ever been told not to 20 report an adverse experience to anyone? 21 A. No. 22 Q. If you heard of an adverse 23 experience while someone was taking Prozac from 24 someone other than somebody you were detailing Page 144 1 to, would you have to report that, as well? Like 2 if a friend said I'm on Prozac and I've got this 3 rash, do you have to call that in as well? 4 A. It's my understanding that if 5 we hear of any adverse event that you are 6 supposed to call it in. 7 Q. When you call it in, who do you 8 speak to specifically at the DEU? 9 A. It's a recording most times -- 10 well, I take that back. I guess I usually just 11 call after hours and it's a recording. During 12 hours it's the person that works in the drug 13 epidemiology unit. 14 Q. And that's what DEU stands for, 15 correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And have you ever called the 18 DEU during office hours when you spoke with a 19 live person? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Have you noticed some sort of 22 pattern that they have in asking questions, do 23 they ask for specific information from you when 24 you call and speak with a live person? Page 145 1 A. They also basically just go 2 down this card. 3 Q. I see, okay. And when you get 4 the information from the physician, do you elicit 5 information from the physician as to the actual 6 name of the patient that had the adverse 7 experience, and do you report -- let's start with 8 that. 9 A. No, I don't get the name, I 10 might get the sex and the age if the physician 11 can tell me but I don't get the name. 12 Q. If someone gives you the name, 13 do you report that to Lilly? 14 A. If they happen to give me the 15 name, yes, I would report that. 16 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 17 whether the person in the DEU fills out a form of 18 any kind upon receipt of the information that you 19 give him about an adverse experience? 20 A. I don't know what the procedure 21 is on the other end of the phone. 22 Q. Have you ever seen a 23 memorialization of the information you gave to 24 the DEU on any document concerning an adverse Page 146 1 experience? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Have you ever been given 4 information by Doctor Lee Coleman about an 5 adverse experience one of his patients had while 6 taking Prozac? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Have you ever heard of whether 9 someone else who detailed to Doctor Lee Coleman 10 received information from Doctor Lee Coleman 11 about an adverse experience of one of Doctor 12 Coleman's patients while they were on Prozac? 13 A. Not to my recollection. 14 Q. Have you ever been given 15 information from anybody concerning an adverse 16 experience that someone had while taking Prozac? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What types of -- how many have 19 you had? 20 A. I don't know. 21 Q. More than ten? 22 A. I really don't know. 23 Q. Can you give me an estimate? 24 A. No. Page 147 1 Q. Do you keep a personal record 2 of information about adverse experiences that you 3 have been given information on? 4 A. No. 5 Q. When someone gives you 6 information about an adverse experience while a 7 patient is on Prozac, do you take notes during 8 the time that you're receiving this information 9 that answer the questions that are listed on 10 Hoffman Exhibit 2? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And then what do you do with 13 those notes after you have completed your call to 14 the DEU? 15 A. Throw it away. 16 Q. And if someone reported an 17 adverse experience to you, would you note it on 18 the physician profile? 19 A. Probably not. 20 Q. Why would that be? 21 A. I don't know, but I just 22 probably wouldn't. 23 Q. Directing your attention to the 24 second column of Hoffman Exhibit 2 under where it Page 148 1 says, quote, Sales Representative Reporting 2 Requirements, close quote, there's a first 3 paragraph that begins with a dot it looks like, 4 then below that it says, quote, This Includes, 5 colon, and then there are a series of what appear 6 to be categories, and I may not be labeling them 7 correctly, but I want to direct your attention to 8 that specific area. And I'll read it for the 9 record, that whole paragraph beginning with the 10 dot, quote, All adverse experiences associated 11 with the use of a Lilly or Dista drug must be 12 reported to the Drug Epidemiology Unit, paren, 13 DEU, all caps, close paren, period. This 14 includes, colon, serious and nonserious 15 experiences, and under that, labeled, paren, 16 labeled, dash, experiences in package insert, 17 close paren, and non, dash, labeled experiences 18 and experiences that are drug related and 19 experiences that may not be drug related, period, 20 close quote. 21 My question is, when you 22 received this card, were you given definitions of 23 what those various categories are? For example, 24 were you given information as to what a serious Page 149 1 as opposed to a nonserious experience is? 2 A. To the best of my knowledge, we 3 were just told report everything, if you hear 4 something, report it. 5 Q. So you have no knowledge as to 6 what the definitions of the various subparagraphs 7 under, quote, This includes, colon, close quote, 8 are, correct? 9 A. I know what I think they mean. 10 Q. I understand that, but you have 11 no -- you don't know what Lilly -- Lilly's never 12 given you any information as to what these three 13 categories of drug adverse experiences are? 14 A. I cannot remember a specific 15 time when I was told this is what this means, 16 this is what this means, this is what this means. 17 Q. What is your definition of a 18 serious as opposed to a nonserious experience? 19 A. A serious experience in my 20 definition would be one that is life threatening 21 and nonserious experience in my definition would 22 be something that's not life threatening. 23 Q. Is this something that you have 24 just developed, this definition something that Page 150 1 you just developed on your own or is this 2 something that you received from Lilly? And I'm 3 not asking for specifics but do you have any 4 general recollection as to whether it was ever 5 distinguished to you what a serious and 6 nonserious experience was? 7 A. We were told to report 8 everything. We were not supposed to try to make 9 a judgment call as in oh, this was serious, I 10 should report it. We were told to report 11 everything. 12 Q. So the answer to my question is 13 no, right? I understand you were told to report 14 everything but my question is whether you have 15 any general recollection or specific recollection 16 if you were ever given a definition as to what 17 these three categories of adverse experiences 18 were that are listed on this card you were given. 19 If it's no, it's no, I want to know one way or 20 the other. 21 A. I guess it's no. 22 Q. After the adverse event, after 23 you reported the adverse event to the DEU, were 24 you ever called by a physician or anybody at Page 151 1 Lilly and questioned about the adverse experience 2 you reported? 3 A. No. If they have questions, 4 they call the physician or the reporter directly. 5 Q. What kinds of adverse 6 experiences do you recall receiving information 7 about concerning a patient's use of Prozac? 8 A. I can recall an event related 9 to me by a physician of a patient taking Prozac 10 who had some sort of a reaction with alcohol. 11 Q. What kind of reaction do you 12 recall? 13 A. The physician said that it was 14 almost like a psychotic reaction. 15 Q. Did he get any more specific 16 other than telling you it was a psychotic 17 reaction? 18 A. I don't remember. 19 Q. Was this a psychiatrist or a 20 primary care physician that relayed this 21 experience to you? 22 A. That was a psychiatrist. 23 Q. When in '93 did you receive 24 that information? Page 152 1 A. I don't know. It hasn't been 2 that long ago but I don't know when. 3 Q. What was the psychiatrist's 4 name? 5 MR. MYERS: Don't tell her that. She's 6 not going to answer that. That's covered by the 7 federal regulations and it would be illegal to 8 disclose that information. 9 Q. Any other adverse experiences 10 you received information on? 11 A. I'm sure I've had others but 12 that one sticks in my mind. 13 Q. Do you recall the nature of the 14 other adverse experiences? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Have you ever read the article, 17 the Teicher article? 18 A. Yes, I have, but it's been a 19 long time ago. 20 Q. Have you ever been asked by a 21 psychiatrist or a primary care physician or 22 anybody that you detail to to provide them with a 23 copy of the Teicher article? 24 A. Not to my recollection. Page 153 1 Q. Has anyone ever asked you to 2 discuss the Teicher article? 3 A. Not that I recall. 4 Q. Was the Teicher article an 5 article that was approved by Lilly to be 6 distributed to physicians or psychiatrists? 7 A. Yes, as I recall. 8 Q. If I wanted to talk to someone 9 who was in charge of labeling material as 10 approved, who would I ask Lilly's attorney to 11 contact for me to talk to? 12 A. To find -- I'm sorry. 13 Q. I want to know who makes the 14 decision as to whether the document or an article 15 or any piece of literature is approved for 16 distribution to physicians or anyone that you 17 detail to. 18 A. It's my understanding it has to 19 go through the legal department for approval. 20 Q. Did anybody ever explain to you 21 why it has to go through the legal department? 22 A. I believe that was a question 23 someone asked in one of my training time periods 24 but I don't exactly remember the answer why. Page 154 1 Q. Did anyone ever ask you for 2 literature that was critical of Prozac? 3 MR. MYERS: I object to the form. What 4 do you mean by critical? 5 MS. MORTIMER: Did you understand my 6 question? 7 MR. MYERS: I'm sure she does. 8 MS. MORTIMER: Then you can answer it. 9 A. Not to my recollection. 10 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 11 whether Prozac was first approved for 12 psychiatrists and then later approved to family 13 physicians or primary care physicians? 14 A. Prozac is approved for 15 indications through the FDA and that's not 16 physician dependent. 17 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 18 whether Prozac was first marketed to 19 psychiatrists only and then later to 20 psychiatrists as well as primary care physicians? 21 If you don't, just let me know, I was just 22 wondering if you have any knowledge of that. 23 A. It's my understanding that we 24 spoke with the psychiatrists first initially. Page 155 1 Q. And do you have any idea why 2 that occurred? 3 A. No, I don't. 4 Q. You mentioned before that you 5 had meetings, did you have any kind of set 6 meetings every year or do you every year? 7 A. We have district meetings once 8 a quarter. 9 Q. At any of the district meetings 10 that you attended, was the alleged side effect of 11 suicidal ideation and/or violent aggressive 12 behavior and the ingestion of Prozac or 13 Fluoxetine discussed? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. Would anything refresh your 16 recollection in that regard? 17 A. Probably not, no. 18 Q. When you went to these 19 meetings, was Prozac discussed every time since 20 that was a drug that you primary detailed? 21 A. District meetings are normally 22 three days with one day devoted to each product. 23 Q. At these meetings would you 24 receive updated information concerning the Page 156 1 product and new updated promotional materials and 2 things of that nature? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Do you keep a file at home with 5 respect to all of the documents you received 6 concerning Prozac? 7 A. Have ever received? No. 8 Q. Do you have any kind of file at 9 home that is just devoted to material that you 10 use or just devoted to Prozac? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And in that file, what do you 13 keep? 14 A. I have a file of reprints that 15 have been approved for use that I have made 16 notations on, I have a file that contains 17 marketing letters that have been sent to me with 18 just information articles in them, I have a file 19 with district information that would contain some 20 current Prozac promotional information. 21 Q. From whom do you receive all of 22 these types of documents? 23 A. Most of them I would say from 24 the home office. Page 157 1 Q. Is there any specific person 2 that you can go to if you have a question about 3 the reprints or any of the other items you just 4 identified? 5 A. I don't know of one person in 6 particular, no. 7 Q. Who do you go to if you have a 8 question? 9 A. If I have a question on a 10 particular reprint that I just don't understand, 11 I would probably go to another representative who 12 had been with the company longer, promoted Prozac 13 longer, to see if they understood what it said. 14 If I have a specific medical question, I would 15 call medical. 16 Q. In any of the district meetings 17 that you went to, was the Wesbecker incident ever 18 discussed? 19 A. I would say it was at some 20 point, yes. 21 Q. Did you receive any of the 22 materials that discussed the Wesbecker incident? 23 A. The only materials I ever 24 remember receiving that was specifically about Page 158 1 Wesbecker would be the Wall Street Journal 2 article. 3 Q. But there may have been others, 4 you just don't have a specific recollection of 5 them at this moment? 6 A. I don't think that there have 7 been others but I can't swear by it. 8 Q. And the Wall Street Journal 9 article on Wesbecker and any other documentation 10 if it existed would have been distributed at a 11 district meeting to the various representatives? 12 A. Yes, or we do get information 13 through the mail. 14 Q. Okay. So it would have -- it 15 could have also been information that you 16 received through the mail and not just at a 17 meeting? 18 A. Correct, we get information 19 both ways. 20 Q. Other than the district 21 meetings, do you have any other meetings? 22 A. Currently? 23 Q. At any other time in your 24 employment at Lilly, what other types of meetings Page 159 1 have you gone to? 2 A. When you're employed with Lilly 3 as a sales representative, you go through four 4 weeks of initial development. At approximately 5 six months after that time period, you go back to 6 Indianapolis for two weeks of what is called six 7 month school and approximately one year from that 8 time period, you go back for what's called 9 eighteen month school, and at approximately six 10 months after that time period, you go back to 11 Indianapolis for a one week program called sales 12 development program, and then that's the official 13 training. In addition to the district meetings 14 four times a year, there might be impromptu 15 meetings called by managers, and then in my 16 responsibilities as a psych representative, since 17 March of '93, I've gone to a professional meeting 18 and a psychiatrist-only representative meeting. 19 Q. In any of the meetings that you 20 just identified, other than the one you already 21 discussed which are the district meetings and the 22 initial training sessions, did you receive 23 information or discuss the alleged side effects 24 of suicidal ideation from Prozac or Fluoxetine Page 160 1 ingestion? 2 A. Yes, I would say we did. 3 Q. In what meetings was that topic 4 discussed? 5 A. I can't tell you specifically. 6 Q. At at any of the meetings that 7 you have identified and other than the meetings 8 you testified to, the district meetings and the 9 initial training session, was the Wesbecker case 10 ever discussed? 11 A. I don't remember the Wesbecker 12 case specifically being discussed. 13 Q. At any of the meetings when the 14 topic of the alleged side effect of suicidal 15 ideation was discussed as a side effect of Prozac 16 or Fluoxetine ingestion, were you given 17 information or were you told how to respond to 18 questions from people who you detail to? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What were you told to tell 21 people if they asked you whether or not suicidal 22 ideation or violent aggressive behavior was a 23 side effect of Prozac or Fluoxetine ingestion? 24 A. If we were asked that question Page 161 1 specifically we were told to say that there has 2 been no definite causative link established and 3 then we were also told the various items that we 4 had to back that statement and those have changed 5 as time as gone on. 6 Q. Okay. Were you given a basis 7 for the representation made by the Lilly 8 representive that gave you that information as to -- 9 were you given a basis for that statement that 10 there's no causative link between the two? 11 A. That we have a reprint that's 12 approved that's a meta-analysis that does not 13 find any causative link between Prozac and 14 suicidal ideation. There's another reprint that 15 talks about suicide and Prozac and its link and 16 says that there's no causative link established. 17 The FDA advisory committee met, I believe in 18 August of '91, and did not find that any 19 causative link was established. Those are just 20 three things I can think of. 21 Q. And these are all approved 22 materials that you were authorized to give to 23 physicians or to any person that you were 24 detailing to in response to a question about Page 162 1 whether there was a causal link between suicidal 2 ideation and the ingestion of Prozac or 3 Fluoxetine, correct? 4 A. I don't have a reprint on the 5 FDA's advisory committee but on the other two 6 topics, yes, there are approved reprints on those 7 topics. 8 Q. And these various reprints 9 contain results of testing that you did not 10 conduct, correct? 11 MR. MYERS: You, as in her personally 12 when you say you? 13 MS. MORTIMER: Yes. 14 A. So now tell me what is the form 15 of the question so I can answer it. 16 Q. No, I can ask it again. The 17 materials that you distributed that you just 18 identified are materials that contained results 19 of testing, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And it contained results of 22 analysis, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And this is all testing and Page 163 1 analysis that you did not personally perform, 2 correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. So these are representations of 5 other people's interpretations of results of 6 tests, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you -- were you authorized 9 to give any other promotional materials or any 10 promotional materials in response to a question 11 about whether there is a causal connection 12 between suicidal ideation and violent aggressive 13 behavior after the taking of Prozac or 14 Fluoxetine? 15 A. There may be other reprints but 16 I can't think of them right off the top of my 17 head. 18 Q. And you said that your response 19 has changed, I think that's what you testified 20 before, I don't know if the gist of what you're 21 telling them has changed but you said there's 22 been some change in the response. 23 MR. MYERS: In the materials. I object 24 to the form. Page 164 1 A. In the materials. 2 MS. MORTIMER: You always object to the 3 form. 4 MR. MYERS: I was right. 5 A. Just as time has gone on, we 6 have gotten more materials, there have been more 7 analysis, there have been more testing done and 8 this causal link still hasn't been established. 9 My point was, I'm not using the old material, I'm 10 using the newer material as it comes in. 11 Q. That's what I understood your 12 point to be. I just wanted to make sure that the 13 material you're authorized to give in response to 14 a question such as in the issue we've been 15 talking about with suicidal ideation and violent 16 aggressive behavior has all basically disagreed 17 with the hypothesis and the allegations that 18 suicidal ideation is a side effect of Prozac 19 ingestion, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. So you've not distributed -- 22 you personally have never distributed a document, 23 you know, a piece of information that stated that 24 there may be a causal connection between the Page 165 1 ingestion of Fluoxetine or Prozac and suicidal 2 ideation and/or violent aggressive behavior, 3 correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, let me 6 object to the form in that your question assumes 7 that there is such material. But go ahead and 8 answer. 9 MS. MORTIMER: Well, there is such 10 material. 11 MR. MYERS: We would be happy to see 12 it. We're waiting to see it, holding our breath. 13 MS. MORTIMER: Make your record, Larry. 14 MR. MYERS: Go ahead. 15 Q. Are there any other indications 16 for which Prozac is prescribed other than for 17 depression? 18 A. We are currently only indicated 19 for the use of depression, for the use of 20 treatment of depression. 21 Q. If someone that you were 22 detailing to asked you whether the question I 23 just asked, are there any other indications for 24 which Prozac can be used other than depression, Page 166 1 would you give the standard answer that you just 2 gave me, or the answer that you just gave me, or 3 would you distribute information concerning 4 something else? 5 A. No, I promote Prozac only for 6 the treatment of depression. 7 Q. Does Lilly promote Prozac for 8 any other indication than depression? 9 A. We do not promote Prozac for 10 any other indication. 11 Q. You gave me the names of three 12 products that you detailed when you first started 13 working as a sales representative from Lilly and 14 I believe they were Ceclor, Axid, and Prozac, 15 correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Later you also detailed another 18 product and that was what? I can't recall, I'm 19 sorry. 20 A. I received promotional 21 information on Lorabid but I changed territories 22 before I officially started promoting Lorabid. 23 Q. Are there any other products 24 that you have detailed or are currently detailing Page 167 1 other than the ones you identified? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Okay. Just so I'm clear and I 4 may have asked you this already, Doctor Coleman 5 has never discussed visits he's had with other 6 Eli Lilly sales representatives with you, 7 correct? 8 A. Not that I recall. 9 MS. MORTIMER: If counsel could show 10 you Hoffman Exhibit 4 for identification. 11 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 4 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 12 Q. If you could just look at that, 13 I would appreciate it. Could you look at the 14 pages that follow the first page or have you 15 already? 16 A. I looked at these. 17 Q. I realize that this letter or 18 this document is dated March 7 of 1988, but my 19 purpose in showing it to you is to ask you if the 20 list which is contained on page two and page 21 three of this exhibit is something that you 22 received as a list of medical letters that you 23 could request be sent to people to whom you 24 detail products? Page 168 1 A. I don't ever recall seeing a 2 list like this. 3 Q. Have you ever seen the letter 4 dated March 7 of '88? 5 A. Not that I recall. 6 MS. MORTIMER:? If you could show her 7 Hoffman group Exhibit 5. 8 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 5 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 9 Q. You don't have to read these 10 verbatim if you could glance at the letter, they 11 all appear to be in the same kind of form. 12 A. Okay. 13 Q. Before I get to the exhibit, I 14 was wondering, have you ever seen a copy of a 15 medical letter that you request be sent to 16 someone that you detail to? 17 A. Have I ever seen a letter in 18 the physician's office then? 19 Q. Are you carbon copied on the 20 medical letter that's sent? 21 A. We are sent a, normally just 22 the first page of the letter with a blind-like 23 carbon copy to us, but we are not sent the full 24 information. Page 169 1 Q. Do you recognize the letters 2 that are part of Hoffman Group Exhibit 5 as 3 examples of medical letters that are sent in 4 response to a request for information, is this 5 the form? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. 8 MS. MORTIMER: Could you show her 9 Hoffman Exhibit 8, please? 10 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 8 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 11 Q. If you could look at Exhibit 8, 12 I would appreciate it, if you would would like to 13 read it, that's fine. Have you had a chance to 14 read it? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Have you ever seen this 17 document before? 18 A. Not to my knowledge. 19 Q. Do you recognize this exhibit 20 as a type of document that you received, 21 something that has verbatim statements such as 22 outlined in Hoffman Exhibit 8? 23 A. We have received this type of 24 format before, yes. Page 170 1 Q. From whom have you received 2 this type of document? 3 A. It would be my guess that this 4 is from marketing plans. 5 Q. Okay. And how or what is the 6 purpose of marketing plans giving you this 7 document? What do you use it for I guess is a 8 better question. 9 A. My interpretation of a document 10 like this would be if there seems to be one 11 general issue that sales representatives are 12 being questioned on frequently, this is some way 13 to respond to those questions by physicians. 14 Q. Would you give these verbatim 15 answers to questions or were you allowed to, in 16 your own words, give this information that is 17 listed in the verbatim statements to the people 18 that ask you the questions? 19 A. We weren't required to memorize 20 this word by word but this is the general 21 information that needs to be conveyed. 22 Q. In this particular document, 23 there are representations or there are 24 discussions in the verbatim statements about the Page 171 1 results of trials and the results of analysis. 2 In the verbatim statements that you received, 3 have you also received verbatim statements that 4 contain representations about the results of 5 analysis and the results of clinical trials? 6 A. I don't recall getting any 7 verbatim statements on Prozac of that nature. 8 Q. And I'm sure your answer may be 9 the same, but just -- I maybe want a little bit 10 more specific question. The very bottom of the 11 first page in the last paragraph, it says, quote, 12 Analysis of HAMD, dash, three in pooled, 13 controlled depression trials indicated that 14 increased thinking of suicide was somewhat less, 15 which is crossed out and then no more is circled 16 next to it, likely to occur in patients treated 17 with Prozac as compared to either placebo or 18 tricyclic antidepressants, close quote. Have you 19 ever received a verbatim statement of that nature 20 which discusses someone's analysis of a pooled or 21 controlled depression trial or someone's analysis 22 of another study? 23 A. I don't ever remember receiving 24 a verbatim of that nature. Page 172 1 MS. MORTIMER: Okay. If you could show 2 her Hoffman Exhibit 10. 3 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 10 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 4 Q. Directing your attention to the 5 first two pages of Hoffman Exhibit 10, the first 6 page having a title, quote, Prozac Key Points, 7 close quote, have you ever seen the first two 8 pages of Exhibit 10 before? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Do you have any idea who or 11 what entity generated the first two pages of 12 Hoffman Exhibit 10? 13 A. I don't know. 14 Q. Going to the third page, it's a 15 document dated June 11, 1991, and contains a, 16 quote, Eli Lilly and Company statement, close 17 quote, and there are four paragraphs underneath 18 it. Have you ever seen this document before? 19 A. I don't remember. 20 Q. Have you ever received a 21 document like this one which has kind of a 22 subheading that says Eli Lilly and Company 23 statement and a, quote, statement, close quote, 24 underneath it? Page 173 1 A. I don't know. 2 Q. Do you have any idea why a 3 document such as this would be generated? 4 A. It would seem to me to convey 5 our position on an issue. 6 Q. But you don't know who was to 7 receive such a document? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Does the same hold true for the 10 fourth page of the exhibit, which has a similar 11 format except the way it is presented on the page 12 is different by the fact that there's a dark bold 13 line under Eli Lilly and Company statement and 14 then the statement and then a bold line 15 underneath that, does the same hold true, you 16 don't know who generated it or who it would go 17 to? 18 A. No, I can't say for certain. 19 Q. Do you recall ever receiving 20 any kind of a document that was like this, that 21 contained Eli Lilly and Company statement in this 22 form? 23 A. I'm not sure. 24 Q. Okay. And then directing your Page 174 1 attention to the last two pages, it's a little 2 bit different, it's dated June 4 of '91 and the 3 second item on the page says, quote, Standby 4 Statement, colon, Approved, close quote. Have 5 you ever seen a document like this above? 6 A. I don't recall. 7 Q. So you don't recall whether or 8 not you received such a document? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And again, do you have any idea 11 who generated the document or what entity 12 generated it? 13 A. I would say Lilly, but what 14 department, I don't know. 15 Q. At the very bottom lefthand 16 corner of that page, there's an acronym I believe 17 and I may be wrong that says, quote, MAA1STB, and 18 then Prozac, slash, indemnification, close quote. 19 Do you have any idea what that means? 20 A. None. 21 Q. And then in the last page, 22 there's a list of questions and answers. Have 23 you ever seen this document before? 24 A. I don't remember. Page 175 1 Q. Have you ever received a 2 document in this format where you have questions 3 and answers underneath them? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. From whom did you receive this 6 type of document, if you know? 7 A. Most times I believe it's been 8 from marketing, but not everytime. 9 Q. On the other occasions when you 10 received it, do you recall from whom you received 11 it within Lilly? 12 A. We received this type of format 13 from like our benefits administration, we 14 received this type of format from different units 15 within Lilly. 16 Q. Other than your benefit, what 17 did you call it, the benefit division? 18 A. Administration. 19 Q. What's that, what's the purpose 20 of that? 21 A. Personal benefits, health 22 insurance. 23 Q. Other than the personal benefit 24 division and marketing, do you recall the Page 176 1 division from whom you would receive such a 2 document? 3 A. I can't see anyone else 4 specifically, no. 5 Q. What were you told to do with 6 this type of document when you received it? 7 A. This is just for our 8 information only type of a document. 9 Q. Okay. Is it designed to, and 10 tell me if I'm wrong, give you an example of an 11 answer to a potential question you may receive 12 from a detailing, from someone that you detail 13 to? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And these answers would contain 16 information that was approved by Lilly for you to 17 give to people that you detail to? 18 A. This form is not approved to be 19 given to physicians but the information within 20 the answers are information conveyed by Lilly's 21 corporate office. 22 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 23 why a format such as this which has sample 24 questions and answers would not be approved to be Page 177 1 given to someone to whom you were detailing? If 2 you don't know, you don't know. 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. And I may have asked you this, 5 but going back to Hoffman Exhibit 8, I may have 6 asked you this, but do you know who generated, 7 who normally generated verbatim statements such 8 as this for use of representatives, sales 9 representatives? 10 A. I believe I said that marketing 11 but I'm not sure. 12 Q. I couldn't remember if I asked 13 you. Are you okay to go on or do you want to 14 take a couple of minutes break? 15 MR. MYERS: Take about a two or three 16 minute break. 17 MS. MORTIMER: Sure. 18 (A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.) 19 Q. Have you had an opportunity to 20 look at the document tendered to you which is 21 Hoffman Exhibit 11? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Have you ever seen that 24 document before? Page 178 1 A. Not to my knowledge. 2 Q. Do you ever detail product to 3 actual patients who use the products? 4 A. No. 5 Q. To your knowledge, do any sales 6 representatives detail products to the patients 7 who use the products? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 MS. MORTIMER: Would you show her 10 Hoffman Exhibit 13? 11 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 13 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 12 Q. You don't have to read this 13 through, just generally skim it. Have you had an 14 opportunity to look at Hoffman Exhibit 13 just 15 skimming through the actual form and what it 16 generally is? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Have you ever seen this 19 document before? 20 A. Not to my knowledge. 21 Q. Tell me about the information 22 that you received with respect to the package 23 inserts, I guess first tell me what a package 24 insert is. Page 179 1 A. Package insert is the labeling, 2 that labeling of the product as approved by the 3 FDA. 4 Q. Okay. And then this package 5 insert, is it given to the patient when the 6 patient gets the drug pursuant to a prescription 7 or is it given to the physician? What's the 8 purpose, if you know, of the package inserts? 9 A. Package insert is attached to 10 the product like a product container that's 11 shipped to the pharmacy, the package insert is 12 also attached to any promotional piece of 13 literature that we have. In general, the package 14 insert is not meant for the patient but they can 15 obtain copies of a package insert from their 16 pharmacy or maybe from their physician. 17 Q. How were you kept abreast of 18 the changes that occurred in the package inserts? 19 A. If we have changes that occur 20 in our package insert, we are normally sent a 21 letter that explains these changes and then we're 22 sent additional copies of this package insert, of 23 the new insert. 24 MS. MORTIMER: If you can show her Page 180 1 Group Exhibit 14. 2 (HOFFMAN EXHIBIT 14 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 3 Q. You can just again generally 4 look at the documents contained in Group Exhibit 5 14. Have you had an opportunity to scan those? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Have you received the -- have 8 you received any of these? I realize they're all 9 dated in the 1990s but I was wondering if you 10 were ever given a history of the package insert 11 changes that perhaps would be memorialized in 12 letters such as this? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Q. Is this the type of document 15 that when you refer to letters that you would 16 receive from Lilly concerning revisions to Prozac 17 package inserts? 18 A. I'm most familiar with this 19 type. 20 Q. So you're most familiar with 21 the form, let's see if I can find it. I believe 22 it has bolder type than all the others in the 23 group exhibit and it says at the top Prozac 24 Package Insert Changes 11-11-90. Now I realize Page 181 1 since it's dated 11-11-90, November 11th of '90, 2 you probably didn't receive this since you didn't 3 start until '91. 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. But this is the type of Prozac 6 package insert change form that you've received 7 since you began working? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 10 whether in the package insert there is a 11 discussion of suicidal ideation and/or violent 12 aggressive behavior within the insert as it 13 relates to Prozac, if at all? 14 A. I don't know. 15 MS. MORTIMER: Okay. Would you show 16 her Hoffman Exhibit 16 and Hoffman Exhibit 17? 17 (HOFFMAN EXHIBITS 16 AND 17 HANDED TO WITNESS.) 18 Q. Obviously, I'm not going to ask 19 you to read those here but if you could just 20 generally look at them, I have a couple of 21 questions. Have you had an opportunity to look 22 at the exhibits generally that have been marked 23 Hoffman Exhibit 16 and Hoffman Exhibit 17? 24 A. Yes. Page 182 1 Q. Are these two exhibits examples 2 of the reprints that you discussed earlier? 3 A. I have never seen 17 to my 4 knowledge. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Sixteen, I was not familiar 7 with the cover page but I have seen this reprint, 8 yes. 9 Q. Okay, so you're not familiar 10 with page one but everything after, or the 11 balance of the exhibit, Hoffman Exhibit 16, you 12 are familiar with? 13 A. I have seen it, yes. 14 Q. And that is an example of a 15 reprint that you were authorized to distribute 16 during your detailing, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And you have never seen Hoffman 19 Exhibit 17? 20 A. Not to my knowledge. 21 Q. Do you have any knowledge 22 whether Hoffman Exhibit 17 was authorized by 23 Lilly to be distributed by sales representatives? 24 A. I don't have any idea. Page 183 1 Q. Do you know to whom you 2 reported the adverse experience that was given to 3 you by the physician concerning the patient's 4 reaction with alcohol and Prozac? 5 A. Who the -- the exact person's 6 name I spoke with? 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. No, I don't. 9 Q. And you don't have any kind of 10 notes or anything that you've kept that would 11 memorialize what was told to you concerning that 12 adverse experience, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. With respect to the package 15 insert changes, when you received notice from 16 Lilly of the revisions or the changes that were 17 made, were you required to alert all of the 18 physicians or psychiatrists within your territory 19 of these changes? 20 A. We are not, I don't remember 21 being told that you were required to. As a 22 general practice, I do. 23 MS. MORTIMER: Let me go through my 24 notes. I think that may be it. Page 184 1 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Have you 2 ever been told by any of your colleagues at 3 Lilly, other sales representatives no matter what 4 division they were in, that they received 5 information about an adverse experience 6 concerning Prozac where the patient had suicidal 7 ideation and/or violent aggressive behavior? 8 A. I'm sorry, one more time. 9 Q. Sure. Has any one of your 10 fellow sales representatives ever told you that 11 they received information about a patient 12 suffering from or a patient experiencing an 13 adverse experience which was suicidal ideation 14 and/or violent aggressive behavior while they 15 were taking Prozac? 16 A. No, not to my knowledge. 17 Q. Have you ever heard of a man 18 named Ed West? 19 A. I don't believe so. 20 Q. What types of things do you 21 receive from Lilly that are not approved for your 22 distribution other than what we already talked 23 about? We talked about the questions and answers 24 and the verbatim statements. Are there anything Page 185 1 else that you are told not to distribute? 2 A. We occasionally receive journal 3 articles that are for our information only and 4 not to be used in detailing. 5 Q. Are some of those journal 6 articles negative with respect to Prozac or Eli 7 Lilly? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. And again these negative 10 articles are not approved by Lilly for 11 distribution? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Anything else that you can 14 recall? 15 A. That we received? 16 Q. That you received from Lilly 17 but you're told not to distribute. 18 A. Not that I can recall. 19 MS. MORTIMER: Okay. I believe that's 20 all I have. 21 MR. MYERS: No questions. 22 (THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.) 23 Page 186 1 COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY ) 2 : ss COUNTY OF JEFFERSON ) 3 4 I, MARY KATHLEEN NOLD, A NOTARY PUBLIC IN 5 AND FOR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY AT LARGE, DO HEREBY 6 CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING TESTIMONY OF 7 LISA WADDELL 8 WAS TAKEN BEFORE ME AT THE TIME AND PLACE AS 9 STATED IN THE CAPTION; THAT THE WITNESS WAS FIRST 10 DULY SWORN TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, 11 AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH; THAT THE SAID 12 PROCEEDINGS WERE TAKEN DOWN BY ME IN STENOGRAPHIC 13 NOTES AND AFTERWARDS TRANSCRIBED UNDER MY 14 DIRECTION; THAT IT IS A TRUE, COMPLETE AND 15 CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF THE SAID PROCEEDINGS SO 16 HAD; THAT THE APPEARANCES WERE AS STATED IN THE 17 CAPTION. 18 WITNESS MY SIGNATURE THIS THE 17th DAY OF 19 DECEMBER, 1993. 20 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MARCH 10, 1994. 21 22 23 _________________________ MARY KATHLEEN NOLD 24 COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC STATE OF KENTUCKY AT LARGE Page 187 1 2 3 E R R A T A S H E E T 4 5 COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY ) : SS 6 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON ) 7 8 I, LISA WADDELL, THE UNDERSIGNED 9 DEPONENT, HAVE THIS DATE READ THE FOREGOING PAGES 10 OF MY DEPOSITION AND WITH THE CHANGES NOTED 11 BELOW, IF ANY, THESE PAGES CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND 12 ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION OF MY DEPOSITION GIVEN ON 13 THE 19TH DAY OF NOVEMBER, 1993 AT THE TIME AND 14 PLACE STATED THEREIN. 15 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CHANGE REASON Page 188 1 2 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CHANGE REASON 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 _____________________________ 10 LISA WADDELL 11 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS 12 _____ DAY OF __________, 1993. 13 _____________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF 14 KENTUCKY AT LARGE Page 189 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 191 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Page 192