1 1 NO. 90-CI-06033 JEFFERSON CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION ONE 2 3 4 JOYCE FENTRESS, et al PLAINTIFFS 5 6 VS TRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEEDINGS 7 8 9 SHEA COMMUNICATIONS, et al DEFENDANTS 10 11 *** 12 13 14 MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 1994 15 VOLUME I 16 17 *** 18 19 20 _____________________________________________________________ 21 REPORTER: JULIA K. McBRIDE Coulter, Shay, McBride & Rice 22 1221 Starks Building 455 South Fourth Avenue 23 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 (502) 582-1627 24 FAX: (502) 587-6299 25 2 1 2 I N D E X 3 4 Colloquy................................................ 4 5 Voir Dire............................................... 5-178 6 Reporter's Certificate.................................. 179 7 8 * * * 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 4 PAUL L. SMITH 5 Suite 745 Campbell Center II 6 8150 North Central Expressway Dallas, Texas 75206 7 NANCY ZETTLER 8 1405 West Norwell Lane Schaumburg, Illinois 60193 9 IRVIN D. FOLEY 10 Rubin, Hays & Foley Third Floor South 11 First Trust Centre 200 South Fifth Street 12 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 13 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 14 EDWARD H. STOPHER 15 Boehl, Stopher & Graves 2300 Providian Center 16 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 17 JOE C. FREEMAN, JR. LAWRENCE J. MYERS 18 Freeman & Hawkins 4000 One Peachtree Center 19 303 Peachtree Street, N.E. Atlanta, Georgia 30308 20 21 ALSO PRESENT: 22 DR. W. LEIGH THOMPSON 23 24 25 4 1 The Transcript of the Proceedings, taken before 2 The Honorable John Potter in the Multipurpose Courtroom, Old 3 Jail Office Building, Louisville, Kentucky, commencing on 4 Monday, September 26, 1994, at approximately 9:45 A.M., said 5 proceedings occurred as follows: 6 7 * * * 8 9 JUDGE POTTER: Would anyone who has been 10 subpoenaed here today in the case of Joyce Fentress versus Eli 11 Lilly, please step up here to the bench, please. 12 Okay. How are you-all today? You'd rather be 13 someplace else, no doubt. Okay. Two, four, six, eight, ten. 14 What I'm going to do, I'm going to get everybody down here so 15 they can hear me. Okay. You've all -- some of you obviously 16 know the procedure. I see a police officer; he does this, 17 what, six times a month or something? You-all have been 18 subpoenaed as witnesses in this trial. The way they subpoena 19 you is for the first day, and then the choices are to sit till 20 they want you or to agree to come back when you're called. 21 Does everyone here have a telephone? Has everyone -- Mr. 22 Smith, Ms. Zettler, do you have the telephone number of each 23 of these people? 24 MS. ZETTLER: We have probably most of them, 25 Judge. If you would like, we could have them check in with 5 1 one of our legal assistants to make sure we can contact them 2 all. 3 JUDGE POTTER: What I'm going to do is go down 4 the row and ask for each of you to give your full name, your 5 telephone number and if you have some problems with this, let 6 me know and we will take up your individual situations, and 7 then I'm going to place you under a bond for $500 with the 8 Commonwealth of Kentucky if you will appear in court if given 9 48 hours' notice. Now, you might have to come here and wait 6 10 hours; they can't get it to the minute. But if you would 11 reappear in court if they give you 24 hours; in other words -- 12 I said 48? I will stick with 48. In other words, just -- so 13 if you're going to be here on Wednesday, they'll call you on 14 Monday. They'll call you and it will be day after next is 15 when you'll have to appear. And, obviously, there may be some 16 confusion. And they may call you and say, "Can you be in here 17 this afternoon," and I would urge you to do it if you can. 18 But as far as my -- getting in trouble with me, it will be two 19 days before. All right. 20 MR. HERMAN: Robert Heman, 329-5100. 21 MS. HARRINGTON: Wanda Harrington, 22 H-A-R-R-I-N-G-T-O-N, 584-8886. 23 MR. GRIFFIN: Gerald Griffin, 894-8225. 24 MR. WARD: Michael Ward, 564-4446. 25 MR. EVANS: Tom Evans, 634-9869; 6 1 MR. GRAHAM: Jimmy Graham, 274-9572. 2 MS. BRYANT: Nancy Bryant, 637-2433. 3 MR. MONTGOMERY: John T. Montgomery, Sr., 4 448-1602. 5 MR. BULLARD: Earl Bullard, 895-7296. 6 MR. THRONEBERRY: Grady Throneberry, 584-1010. 7 DR. SENLER: I'm Doctor Senler. Work number, 8 895-3401, extension 5921, during work hours. 9 MR. GREEN: Edward Green, Jr., 231-2646. 10 MR. GOSLING: Thomas Gosling, 456-2939. 11 MR. SENTERS: Danny Phillip Senters, 447-3486. 12 OFFICER BALL: Joseph Ball, 478-9411. 13 MR. LUCAS: James Lucas, 937-9977. 14 MR. TINGLE: John Tingle, 933-9866. 15 MR. STUART: Thomas Walter Stuart, (812) 16 951-3025. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Zettler, Mr. Smith, do 18 you-all have a paralegal that would like to chat with these 19 people before they actually leave the building? 20 MR. SMITH: Yes. Ms. Carey or Ms. Putnam would 21 both like to chat with them briefly to coordinate. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. After you-all leave here 23 and file out there, would you take a moment to speak with one 24 of these two ladies so that they can kind of coordinate things 25 a little better with you. 7 1 Would each of you raise your right hand. Do 2 each of you place yourself under a bond of $500 to the 3 Commonwealth of Kentucky to appear in this courtroom on 4 48-hour telephone notice or other kind of notice, provided you 5 get it? 6 (ALL RESPOND AFFIRMATIVELY) 7 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you-all very much. Why 8 don't you-all meet them out in the foyer. They'll go out the 9 door there and you can just meet them out in the foyer. 10 (ALL ABOVE WITNESSES LEAVE THE COURTROOM; 11 OFF THE RECORD) 12 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Zettler, do you want to go 13 ahead and have your clients sit up here? 14 Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, you-all are the 15 plaintiffs; is that right? Okay. Let me just tell you -- I 16 know Ms. Zettler and Mr. Smith have told you this, but the 17 voir dire process is a process through which we select the 18 jury. And I will ask the jury some questions, and then, 19 probably tomorrow, the lawyers will ask the prospective jurors 20 some questions. I'm going to -- as you can tell from what's 21 gone on today, there's going to be a little bit of problem 22 getting things coordinated, just the chairs and the tables and 23 how the layout goes, because we don't run very many trials 24 this size very often, so at least, for me, these are new 25 problems. But one of the things that will be asked of each 8 1 juror is if they know any of you-all. So what you're going to 2 be asked to do is -- you know, I will ask you, Ms. Smith, will 3 you stand up, please, and I will ask the jury does anyone on 4 the jury know Ms. Smith. All right? So I just want to let 5 you know what's in store for you today. It will be -- maybe 6 you'll stand up two or three times today; the rest of it 7 you're just going to be sitting and watching. So I guess you 8 could say you have a walk-on so far. 9 All right. Does anyone have any questions of me 10 about the procedure? Let me say this: If during this, any of 11 the plaintiffs, you have to go to the bathroom or it's some 12 kind of emergency, get up and walk out this back door. But I 13 would ask you not to get up and move around unless it truly is 14 some kind of emergency. It's not just like you're bored or 15 restless. Any of you-all -- I don't normally talk to you-all 16 like this, but since there's so many of, I thought I would. 17 Mr. Smith and Ms. Zettler, of course, and the other attorneys 18 can answer many questions. Can anybody think of any reason we 19 shouldn't get the 50 people over here and start? 20 MR. FREEMAN: No, sir. 21 (OFF THE RECORD) 22 JUDGE POTTER: Let me just run through who's in 23 the jury box so I know it. You-all are Ms. Putnam and Ms. 24 Carey; is that right? Mr. Dobiesz here? 25 MS. CAREY: He left, sir. 9 1 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Crady, do you want to be 2 introduced or not? 3 MR. CRADY: Not necessarily, Judge. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Let me just say, the rules are if 5 I don't mention you to the jury, you can observe and be here, 6 but you can't sit at counsel table and play a role where a 7 juror that knew you might feel warm and fuzzy towards that 8 side. Do you know what I mean? 9 MR. CRADY: It's up to you, Judge, whatever you 10 want. 11 JUDGE POTTER: No. It's really up to you. I'd 12 rather not be introduced. And let me say that to the rest of 13 you, Mr. Bensinger, and the reason we do this is to see if the 14 juror knows anybody. Not that you can't go to the table and 15 not that you can't talk to people, but just participate to the 16 point to where you know the jury would feel you were 17 identified with that side and it was your client. So make a 18 decision whether you want to be introduced to the jury or not. 19 And, of course, then the -- you know, the idea is maybe if 20 you're introduced and you don't come very much, the jury will 21 get a bad idea. 22 MR. CRADY: Just ask them if they know any of 23 us, Judge. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Do you-all want to be introduced 25 or not? 10 1 MR. BENSINGER: Yes. 2 JUDGE POTTER: You do, Mr. Bensinger? Anyone 3 else? Who have we got in the back, there? 4 MR. NOLD: Nold and Morris. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Hold on just a second. Mr. 6 Morris? Actually, you represent Ms. Fentress; right? 7 MR. MORRIS: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE POTTER: And who else? 9 MR. NOLD: Mr. Nold. 10 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Okay. I've got you, 11 Mr. Foley. Can you-all think of anybody else? 12 MR. NICK STEIN: Me. Mr. Stein. 13 JUDGE POTTER: How about -- Mr. Holbrook is the 14 only one that occurs to me. He's not going to be here enough? 15 MS. ZETTLER: I doubt it. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? 17 Can you-all think of anyone else? 18 MR. NOLD: Judge, possibly Larry Ethridge. 19 JUDGE POTTER: All right. 20 MR. FOLEY: Your Honor, one more. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Hold on. I'm still trying to 22 find Mr. Ethridge. 23 MR. NOLD: He's probably listed with me, Judge, 24 with Nold. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Oh, right. He's right under you. 11 1 Okay, Mr. Nold. 2 MR. FOLEY: Don Brown, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Is he on this list? Yeah. 4 (RECESS) 5 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen of the 6 prospective jury, let me introduce myself. My name is John 7 Potter. This is actually Division One of the Jefferson 8 Circuit Court, but because of the size and the number of 9 people involved in this case, we're holding the trial over 10 here in what's called a multipurpose courtroom. At this point 11 I'm going to ask all of you to rise, raise your right hand and 12 permit my clerk to swear you. All the jurors rise and raise 13 your right hand. 14 15 * * * 16 17 Prospective Jury Pool, after first being duly 18 sworn, was questioned as follows: 19 20 * * * 21 22 JUDGE POTTER: I know they went over this with 23 you over on your jury qualification form, and I just want to 24 run over a few things with you. First of all, can everybody 25 hear me? Is there anybody out there who can't hear me? Is 12 1 the microphone system working and whatnot? 2 Is everybody over 18? 3 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: Yes. 4 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Are you all citizens 5 of the United States? 6 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: Yes. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Do you all live here in Jefferson 8 County and are residents of Jefferson County? 9 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: Yes. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Do any of you have any 11 physical or mental disabilities that would prevent you from 12 rendering jury service? 13 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: No. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anybody here that has 15 any kind of disability that they feel might need special 16 attention? Let me just give you an example: Some people 17 maybe have a little hearing problem and we put them on the 18 front row, or anybody having any problem that they might want 19 to get -- not special treatment but just something to 20 compensate for it? 21 JUROR NO. 14: A little slow hearing, young man. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I tell you what. Let me 23 see if I've got my system right. You are Mr. -- your name and 24 your badge number? 25 JUROR NO. 14: Fourteen. 13 1 JUDGE POTTER: You're Mr. Fitch? 2 JUROR NO. 14: Yes. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Fitch, do you think it would 4 help if you moved up a row or do you just want to stay where 5 you are? 6 JUROR NO. 14: I think it will be all right 7 where I am, as long as everybody talks as loud as you have. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And if we don't, will you 9 be sure and remind us? 10 JUROR NO. 14: Yes. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anyone here 12 that's been convicted of a felony which has not been pardoned 13 by the governor or other appropriate authorities? 14 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: No. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Is anyone here presently under 16 indictment? 17 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: No. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anyone here who has 19 served as a juror in the last 12 months? And just because 20 dates are kind of close, is there anybody that's served as a 21 juror in '93 or '94, this year or last year? 22 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: No. 23 JUDGE POTTER: You-all saw a video/slide show/ 24 movie over in the jury pool; is that right? 25 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: Yes. 14 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Let me expand a little bit 2 on what was told you in that process, that video. I want to 3 emphasize a few points. This is the voir dire process. This 4 is the process through which we select a jury. I want to 5 emphasize that you're under oath when you answer these 6 questions, and it has serious consequences for you as an 7 individual, as well as the system, if it should develop at 8 some later time that you've not been completely forthcoming in 9 your answers to questions. So to protect yourself, what you 10 need to do if you have any question at all about -- any doubt 11 at all about what a question means, just raise your hand and 12 say, "Judge, I don't know if this is what you mean," or if one 13 of the attorneys is asking you a question say, "What did you 14 mean," or whatever. But to protect yourself, if you have any 15 doubt at all, speak up. 16 Let me kind of go over the mechanics of the 17 process. I will ask you some general questions about this 18 case today. Basically, I'll tell you the nature of the case 19 and introduce the parties to the case. Then I'll ask you some 20 general questions, basically, if you know the people or if you 21 know anything about the case. You'll be given a written 22 questionnaire and we'll take a recess. Then we'll come back 23 at some later time and there will be a private interview by 24 the attorneys, and then we'll have some general open voir dire 25 like this. 15 1 Because of the size of this room, I'm going to 2 have cordless -- well, maybe we won't need them, but I do have 3 some cordless microphones, and my sheriff, when you-all need 4 to respond to a question, can pass you a microphone and you 5 can talk into it. But don't let that intimidate you about 6 answering a question. 7 Whenever you answer a question, give your last 8 name and your badge number: Smith, 22. "I know that person," 9 "That happened to my grandmother," whatever it happens to be. 10 But start out every answer with your last name and your badge 11 number. 12 I want to emphasize that if any question you 13 want to answer out of the hearing of the other jurors, I 14 normally say approach the bench, but probably what's going to 15 happen is we'll come down here someplace and talk to you. So 16 if at any time you have a question, you have the right to say, 17 "Judge, in answering that question I'd like to come up to the 18 bench." 19 And let me say something, not to the people that 20 are coming up to the bench but to the people that are watching 21 somebody else come up. Okay? You're probably sitting there 22 saying, "Gee, I wonder what that person doesn't want to say in 23 front of all of us." Most of the time when a person comes up 24 here, they'd be perfectly happy to say whatever they want to 25 say in front of all of you-all, but if they did that, then 16 1 whatever they would be concerned about being a problem would 2 then be a problem for all of you. Do you understand what I'm 3 saying? It's not that they don't want to say it; it's just 4 that whatever they said might create a problem for you. 5 You will find I'm going to ask you if you know 6 people out here. And if you know somebody real well, I'm 7 going to ask you to come up to the bench to tell me about 8 that. Not because you would be ashamed to say how you knew 9 this person, but simply because, for all I know, you really 10 like them; the other jurors don't need to hear that. For all 11 I know, you really don't like them, and the other jurors 12 shouldn't hear that. Do you understand that I'm saying? 13 PROSPECTIVE JURORS: (Nod heads affirmatively). 14 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Having said that, let me 15 give you a few personal observations. You-all are all 16 suffering from what right now is called situational anxiety. 17 Anybody out there that isn't a little anxious? Okay. And 18 what it is, you're placed in a strange situation. This is the 19 same thing you had when you went to the first grade or 20 kindergarten, all right, and you-all made it through the first 21 grade and you're all going to make it through this. So don't 22 let the anxiety you feel inhibit you from answering questions 23 or speaking up. The only time you'll get me to fuss at you is 24 if you don't speak up when you should. All right? Nobody's 25 going to say, gosh, that juror asked a dumb question or 17 1 misunderstood that question or whatever. All right? The only 2 time I'll fuss at you is if you let the process sort of 3 intimidate you. And I can understand why you're a little 4 anxious and why you might be intimidated. You're sitting in a 5 strange room with 50 strange people looking at you and people 6 are going to ask you questions. 7 I want to emphasize one other thing. They 8 usually say voir dire is to pick a fair and impartial jury for 9 this case. And I want to emphasize that it is for this case. 10 This process is not to determine whether or not you're a fair 11 person or an impartial person or whatever; it's to determine 12 whether you're an appropriate juror for this case. All right? 13 And I think if you keep that in mind, it takes a little bit of 14 the negativeness out of voir dire. For example, I'm going to 15 ask you if you know people. If one of these people is your 16 next-door neighbor, you could be the world's most fair and 17 impartial person, but this is not the case for you. Okay? So 18 keep that in mind. 19 All right. Let me tell you one other thing. 20 Mathematically, most of you are not going to sit on this jury. 21 I can just tell you that. How many numbers there are out 22 there, how many people end up in a jury, I can tell you 23 statistically, to a certainty, most of you are not going to 24 sit on this jury. Most people are competitive. They like to 25 make the team. All right? What I'm going to ask you to do is 18 1 suppress that urge to make the team. Just answer. There are 2 no right or wrong answers; just answer the question however it 3 applies to you. Let the system work and, in a certain period 4 of time, we'll have a jury. And the people that aren't on the 5 jury is no reflection on them. 6 Also I want to point out that voir dire or this 7 process is for your benefit as much as anybody's benefit. 8 Right now you're viewing it as the attorneys or the parties 9 trying to find out about jurors for their own benefit. If 10 you're selected to sit on this jury, you will have all you can 11 handle just thinking about this case. Okay. What you don't 12 want to do is be on a jury and not only have to think about 13 the case, but also have to remember and put out of your mind 14 that the same thing happened to your Uncle George. Do you 15 understand what I'm saying? So what you don't -- it's really 16 for your benefit. It allows you to find out about the case. 17 And if this is one of these cases where you not only have to 18 concentrate about the case but concentrate on two or three 19 other things, or worse yet, concentrate on not concentrating 20 on two or three other things, then you can be excused and go 21 get yourself a case where you don't have those problems. 22 Let me turn to the case we're here on. The 23 style of the case, as my clerk mentioned, is called Joyce 24 Fentress, Individually and as Administratrix of the estate of 25 Kenneth Fentress, et al, versus Lilly & Company. It is a 19 1 civil case; it is not a criminal case. Let me say that again. 2 The style of this case is Joyce Fentress, et al, versus Eli 3 Lilly & Company. It is a civil case; it is not a criminal 4 case. That's the name of the case, and what that "et al" 5 means is Ms. Fentress and others. Okay? And there is no 6 particular significance to what name is read first. It's 7 almost random as to which -- it's kind of a mechanical 8 process, and whenever you describe a case, you only use the 9 first name of the first party, so I don't want you-all to read 10 any significance into that. 11 This case grows out of the September 14th, 1989 12 shootings at the Standard Gravure plant here in Louisville. 13 Standard Gravure was located at Sixth and Broadway. It was a 14 printing company. In the past it had been connected with The 15 Courier-Journal that was owned by Michael Shea in 1989. I 16 suppose most of you have read about it or maybe heard 17 something about it at the time. A Mr. Joseph Wesbecker, a 18 former employee, entered the plant armed with numerous guns 19 and went on a shooting spree. Ultimately, he killed eight 20 people and wounded numerous other people before shooting 21 himself. 22 As I mentioned, this is a civil suit, it is not 23 a criminal action. There will be no dispute that Mr. 24 Wesbecker killed and wounded numerous people. This is a civil 25 suit against Eli Lilly, the manufacturer of a drug called 20 1 Prozac. Either at the time of the shooting or shortly before 2 the shooting, Mr. Wesbecker had been taking Prozac. 3 The plaintiffs -- and by that I mean the people 4 who are bringing the lawsuit -- are the representatives of the 5 8 people killed and the 12 people injured during the shooting. 6 They allege or claim that Prozac was a dangerous drug 7 improperly labeled and marketed and that Prozac caused Mr. 8 Wesbecker to go on a shooting spree. Eli Lilly asserts that 9 Prozac is not dangerous, was properly labeled and marketed and 10 was not a cause of the shooting. 11 This is just a sketchy overview. You'll hear 12 much more about the claims, and this overview here is given 13 primarily to help with the questions I'm going to ask and also 14 so that you-all won't be sitting there wondering what the case 15 is all about. Now you know a little bit about what it's about 16 and you can concentrate more on what's going on here. 17 Let me introduce the various parties sitting 18 here in front of you. The plaintiffs are primarily 19 represented -- it will be primarily represented at trial by 20 Mr. Paul Smith. Would you stand up, sir? Mr. Smith practices 21 law and has offices are in Dallas, Texas. Is there anyone 22 here that knows Mr. Smith, any member of his family or anyone 23 whom you believe to be associated with him in the practice of 24 law? Thank you very much, sir. 25 Assisting him will be Ms. Nancy Zettler. Would 21 1 you stand up, please. Ms. Zettler has her offices in 2 Schaumburg, Illinois, which I understand is right outside 3 Chicago. Is there anyone here that knows Ms. Zettler, any 4 member of her family or anyone you believe to be associated 5 with her in the practice of law? Thank you very much. 6 Also assisting them at trial will be Mr. Irvin 7 Foley. Would you stand up, sir. Mr. Foley has his offices 8 here in the First Trust Centre in Louisville, Kentucky. Is 9 there anyone here that knows Mr. Foley, any member of his 10 family or anyone whom you believe to be associated with him in 11 the practice of law? Thank you very much, sir. 12 Other attorneys who will participate in the 13 presentation of the case for the plaintiffs: Mr. William 14 Nold. Would you stand up, sir. He and Mr. Ethridge, his 15 partner, is not here right now, but Mr. Nold and Mr. Ethridge 16 have their offices in the Hart Block Building here in 17 Louisville, Kentucky. Is there anyone here who knows Mr. 18 Nold, Mr. Ethridge -- Mr. Larry Ethridge, anyone who they 19 believe practices law with them or any member of either 20 person's family? Thank you very much, sir. 21 Mr. Dobiesz is not here right now. Another 22 attorney is Mr. Mark Dobiesz. He has his offices in the 23 Waterfront Plaza here in Louisville. Is there anyone here who 24 knows Mr. Mark Dobiesz, knows anyone whom they believe to be 25 associated with him in the practice of law or any member of 22 1 his family? 2 Mr. Hume Morris, would you stand up, sir. Mr. 3 Morris has his offices in the Starks Building. Is there 4 anyone here who knows Mr. Morris, any member of his family or 5 anyone whom you believe to be associated with him in the 6 practice of law? Thank you very much, sir. 7 Another attorney who will be helping with the 8 presentation of plaintiffs' case is Mr. Harry Hargadon. He is 9 not here right now. Is there anyone here who knows Mr. Harry 10 Hargadon, anyone whom they believe to be associated with him 11 in the practice of law or any member of his family? Yes, sir? 12 JUROR NO. 217: I know Mr. Harry Hargadon. 13 JUDGE POTTER: What didn't you do that you 14 should have done? 15 JUROR NO. 217: I'm sorry. Mullane, 217. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Yes, sir. How do you know 17 Mr. Hargadon? 18 JUROR NO. 217: I knew him as a child, grew up 19 in the same neighborhood. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Did you-all have any 21 fights on the playground or anything that will carry over till 22 today? 23 JUROR NO. 217: No, sir. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, sir. 25 Anybody else know Mr. Hargadon or anybody or a member of his 23 1 family? 2 Another attorney is Mr. Nicholas Stein. He's 3 here. Mr. Stein has his offices in New Albany, Indiana. Is 4 there anyone here that knows Mr. Stein or any member of his 5 family or anyone associated with him in the practice of law? 6 Thank you very much, sir. 7 Another attorney, Mr. Don Brown, he has his 8 offices at 235 South Fifth Street. Is there anyone here that 9 knows a Mr. Don Brown? I'm sure we all probably know a Don 10 Brown somewhere in our life, but is there anybody who knows a 11 Don Brown who is an attorney here in Louisville, any member of 12 his family, or anyone you believe to be associated with him in 13 the practice of law? 14 Also Mr. Carl Bensinger. Would you stand up, 15 sir. Mr. Bensinger has his offices in the Kentucky Home Life 16 Building. Is there anyone who knows Mr. Bensinger, any member 17 of his family or anyone whom you believe to be associated with 18 him in the practice of law? Thank you, sir. 19 I will now introduce to you the plaintiffs in 20 this action. Oh, let me introduce two other people here, just 21 so that the process will be complete. Two paralegals who will 22 be -- or legal assistants who will be assisting the plaintiffs 23 are Ms. Monica Putnam and Ms. Amy Carey. I don't expect 24 anyone knows them; they're from out of town, but I just don't 25 want you-all to be questioning, wondering who people were. 24 1 Thank you. 2 Let me introduce the plaintiffs in this action. 3 Ms. Joyce Fentress, would you stand up, ma'am. Does anyone 4 know Ms. Fentress, any member of her family? And did anyone 5 know Kenneth Fentress, who is deceased? Thank you very much, 6 ma'am. 7 Okay. Jackie Tronzo and Tracy Neely Leet. Is 8 there anyone here that knows Ms. Tronzo, Ms. Leet or Sharon 9 Neely, who is deceased, or any member of their family? 10 MS. TRONZO: Needy, N-E-E-D-Y. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Needy. Thank you for correcting 12 me. Thank you-all. You-all may be seated. 13 Ms. Roma Jean Barger, would you stand up. Is 14 there anyone here that knows Ms. Barger and knows -- 15 MR. STOPHER: Judge, I think it's pronounced 16 Barger. 17 MS. BARGER: Barger, B-A-R-G-E-R. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Barger? Am I saying it well 19 enough? 20 MS. BARGER: That's well enough. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anyone here that knows 22 Ms. Barger, B-A-R-G-E-R or any member of her family? Thank 23 you very much, ma'am. 24 Another plaintiff Juanita Sallee. Ms. Sallee is 25 suing on her behalf and on behalf of Paul Sallee, who is 25 1 deceased. Is there anyone here that knows Ms. Sallee, any 2 member of her family or knew Paul Sallee? Thank you very 3 much, ma'am. 4 Another plaintiff is Ms. Janice Mudd. Ms. Mudd 5 is suing individually and on behalf of her -- James Husband, 6 is that right, ma'am, who is deceased? Is there anyone here 7 that knows Ms. Mudd or knew Mr. James Mudd -- 8 MR. STOPHER: Husband. 9 MR. ZETTLER: Husband, Your Honor. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Husband, I'm sorry. Thank 11 you-all for correcting me. 12 Another plaintiff is Ms. Linda Ganote. Did I 13 pronounce it right? 14 MS. GANOTE: Ganote. 15 JUDGE POTTER: She's suing individually and on 16 behalf of William Ganote, who is deceased. Is there anyone 17 here that knows Ms. Linda Ganote or any member of their 18 family? Thank you very much. 19 JUROR NO. 122: Number 122, Bleuel. And I knew 20 several of the Ganotes, but I don't feel like that would have 21 any effect on my decision. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Can you tell me the family you 23 knew, to see if it's the same family? 24 JUROR NO. 122: I know he worked at Standard 25 Gravure. I knew a lot of the Ganotes that worked there 26 1 because I worked there back in the '60s. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. And 3 you're Mr. Adcock? Mr. Adcock? 4 JUROR NO. 122: No. Bleuel. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Bleuel. Oh, I see. I'm probably 6 out of order. 7 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, I don't think the 8 first row is in order. 9 JUDGE POTTER: We tried to get you in a certain 10 order that would match up to these. 11 MS. ZETTLER: Judge, there's somebody else with 12 their hand up back there. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I tell you what I've 14 decided to do just while we were sitting here, I'm going to 15 make some notes, and what we're going to do is go through some 16 questions and then we'll talk to you individually, rather than 17 have each person come up here. We'll kind of do all the 18 individual stuff at one time. Was there another hand? Yes, 19 sir. 20 JUROR NO. 137: Snyder, 137. I'm like him. I 21 worked at Standard Gravure years ago and I knew a bunch of 22 Ganotes, also. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. What years did you work 24 there, sir? 25 JUROR NO. 137: Around '48 to '57, with four 27 1 years out in the navy. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And, Mr. Bleuel, what 3 years did you work there? 4 JUROR NO. 122: I believe I left there in '63. 5 I was about from '60 to '63. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anyone else here 7 that knows Ms. Linda Ganote or knew William Ganote or any 8 members of their families? Thank you-all very much. 9 JUROR NO. 126: 126, Peck. 10 MR. STOPHER: I'm sorry. What was the name, 11 sir? 12 JUROR NO. 126: Peck, 126. Going back, I went 13 to school with -- I think I went to school with Mr. Husband, 14 if he went to Western Junior High School. 15 JUDGE POTTER: You went to school with, you 16 think, Mr. Ganote; is that right? 17 JUROR NO. 126: No, Husband. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Oh, we're going back a question. 19 Let me also point out that this is like a pop quiz you got in 20 school, where the teacher walked in and you didn't know you 21 were going to have a test and you got the test. I don't know 22 about you, but whenever that happened to me, I left the room 23 and then remembered something I should have put down. If that 24 happens, I would ask you to do what this gentleman did. If 25 after we go along that you remember something that would have 28 1 caused you to speak up to the previous question, raise your 2 hand and say, "I want to go back a couple of questions." 3 JUDGE POTTER: Let me, you you were whom? 4 JUROR NO. 126: Peck, 126. 5 JUDGE POTTER: And you know Mr. Husband; right? 6 JUROR NO. 126: Right. 7 JUDGE POTTER: I don't want to embarrass you, 8 but how long ago was that? 9 JUROR NO. 126: '52, '-3, or '-4. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Was there anything that happened 11 during school, you-all fought over the same girl or you played 12 on the soccer team together, that would be a real thing that 13 would carry over to today? 14 JUROR NO. 126: No, sir. No, sir. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Another plaintiff is Ms. 16 Sarah Wible. Would you stand up, please, ma'am. 17 MS. BISHOP: Wible. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Wible. Individually and on 19 behalf of James Wible. Is there anyone that knows Sarah 20 Wible? 21 MS. BISHOP: I'm Ms. Wible's daughter, Ms. 22 Bishop. 23 JUDGE POTTER: You are Ms. Bishop. This lady 24 standing here is Ms. Bishop, who is Ms. Sarah Wible's 25 daughter. She is here. Ms. Wible is suing individually and 29 1 on behalf of Mr. James Wible. Is there anyone here that knows 2 Ms. Bishop or knows Ms. Sarah Wible or knew Mr. James Wible? 3 Thank you very much, ma'am. 4 Another plaintiff is Marila White; she is suing 5 individually and on behalf of Lloyd White, who is deceased. 6 Is there anyone here that knows Marila White or any member of 7 her family or knew Lloyd White? Yes, ma'am? 8 JUROR NO. 115: Schmalz, 115. 9 MR. FREEMAN: What was the number, please? 10 JUROR NO. 115: 115. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Let me get the list here. Who do 12 you know, Ms. Schmalz? 13 JUROR NO. 115: I know her daughters. I went to 14 grade school with them. 15 JUDGE POTTER: You knew Ms. White's daughters? 16 JUROR NO. 115: Yes. Tammy and Julie. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Is that right, ma'am? Have I got 18 the right White family? 19 MS. WHITE: Yes. 20 JUDGE POTTER: How long ago was that? 21 JUROR NO. 115: About ten years ago. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Was there anything out of the 23 ordinary that happened? Were you best friends or something 24 bad happened one way or the other? 25 JUROR NO. 115: No. 30 1 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything you feel about 2 that relationship that would carry over to today? 3 JUROR NO. 115: Possibly, yes. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anyone else that 5 knows Ms. White or knew Mr. White? Thank you very much, 6 ma'am. 7 Another plaintiff is Gordon Sherer. Mr. Sherer 8 lives on Benham Road here in Louisville. He is not here at 9 the present moment. Is there anyone that knows Mr. Gordon 10 Sherer or any member of his family? If that can help you 11 decide who it is, he lives on Benham Road. 12 Another plaintiff is Andrew Pointer. Would you 13 stand up. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. Pointer or any 14 member of his family? Thank you very much, sir. 15 Another plaintiff person here is Shirley 16 Pointer. She is the wife of Mr. Pointer. Is there anyone 17 that knows Mrs. Pointer? Thank you very much. 18 Another plaintiff is Mr. Paul Gnadinger. Mr. 19 Gnadinger, how should I pronounce your name? 20 MR. GNADINGER: Just take the G off, Gnadinger. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anyone here that knows 22 Mr. Gnadinger or any member of his family? Thank you very 23 much, sir. 24 Another plaintiff is Michael Campbell. Would 25 you stand up, sir. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. 31 1 Campbell or any member of his family? 2 JUROR NO. 122: Yes, sir. I'm Bleuel, 122. I 3 graduated from high school with Mr. Campbell and I also worked 4 with him at the Standard Gravure for a period of time, two or 5 three years, or we worked in the same building. I worked in 6 an entirely different part of the operation, but I knew him 7 from there. There are going to be several more that I know, 8 by the way, from Standard Gravure. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, sir. 10 But keep answering every time. 11 JUROR NO. 122: Okay. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Anyone else know Mr. Campbell or 13 any member of his family? Thank you very much, sir. 14 Ms. Angela Bowman, would you identify yourself, 15 please, ma'am. Is there anyone here that knows Ms. Bowman or 16 any member of her family? 17 JUROR NO. 148: Sweet, 148. I knew Angela from 18 school and her grandmother and grandfather. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Let me just -- you're Mr. 20 Wheat? 21 JUROR NO. 148: Sweet. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Number 148? 23 JUROR NO. 148: Yes. 24 JUDGE POTTER: And if I understand you, sir, you 25 knew Ms. Bowman at school? 32 1 JUROR NO. 148: Not personally, but I knew of 2 her. 3 JUDGE POTTER: And you told me one other -- 4 JUROR NO. 148: And I knew her grandmother and 5 grandfather. 6 JUDGE POTTER: How did you know them? 7 JUROR NO. 148: I used to ride their bus to 8 school. 9 JUDGE POTTER: And they were the drivers; is 10 that right? 11 JUROR NO. 148: Right. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about that 13 association that would carry forward to today, either very 14 good or very bad? 15 JUROR NO. 148: Not that I know of. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, sir. 17 Mr. Douglas Bowman, would you stand up, sir. 18 This is the husband of Ms. Angela Bowman. Is there anyone 19 here that knows Mr. Bowman? Thank you very much. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Another plaintiff is William 21 Hoffmann. Stand up, please, sir. Is there anyone here that 22 knows Mr. William Hoffmann or any member of his family? Thank 23 you very much, sir. 24 Another plaintiff in this action is Charles 25 Gorman. Would you stand up, sir. Is there anyone here that 33 1 knows Mr. Charles Gorman or any member of his family? 2 JUROR NO. 122: Bleuel, 122. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Same? 4 JUROR NO. 122: I knew Mr. Gorman since 5 childhood. I think we went to grade school together. He was 6 a little ahead of me, but I knew him from there and also with 7 Standard Gravure. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. 9 Bleuel. 10 Another plaintiff is Mr. David Seidenfaden. Mr. 11 David Seidenfaden. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. 12 Seidenfaden or any member of his family? Thank you very much, 13 sir. 14 His wife is Geri Lynn Seidenfaden. Is there 15 anyone that knows Ms. Seidenfaden or any member of her family? 16 Thank you very much, ma'am. 17 Another plaintiff is Stanley Hatfield and 18 Darlene Hatfield. Mr. Hatfield is not present; is that right? 19 He lives on Sunshine Drive or it's called Mile of Sunshine 20 Drive here in Louisville. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. 21 Hatfield or any member of his family or his wife, Darlene 22 Hatfield? 23 Another plaintiff is Mr. Forrest Conrad. His 24 wife Sandra is here. Would you stand up, ma'am. They live in 25 Lanesville, Indiana. Is there anyone here that knows Forrest 34 1 Conrad or Sandra Conrad? Thank you very much, ma'am. 2 Another plaintiff in this action is Mr. John 3 Stein, Jr. Would you stand up, sir. Is there anyone here 4 that knows Mr. Stein or any member of his family? Yes, sir? 5 JUROR NO. 224: Hollifield, 224. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Wait just a second, Mr. 7 Hollifield. Yes, sir. 8 JUROR NO. 224: I believe I know his sister 9 Emma. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Have we got the right family, 11 sir? 12 MR. JOHN STEIN: Well, yeah. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Do you have a sister called Emma? 14 MR. JOHN STEIN: Yes. 15 JUDGE POTTER: How do you know his sister? 16 JUROR NO. 224: I'm a member of Sales and 17 Marketing Executives, and she's the office manager. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. So this is someone you 19 work with? 20 JUROR NO. 224: No, sir. It's an organization 21 that I'm a member of. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. How many members does the 23 organization have? 24 JUROR NO. 224: Approximately 300. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Do you know her other than 35 1 just as a member of that organization? 2 JUROR NO. 224: No, sir. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Do you-all have any particular 4 contact in that organization, you're president, she's 5 vice-president, or you're both on the committee to do 6 something or anything like that? 7 JUROR NO. 224: She's the office manager and I'm 8 on the board of directors. 9 JUDGE POTTER: How long have you been on the 10 board of directors? 11 JUROR NO. 224: This is my second year. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. Is 13 there anyone else here that knows Mr. Stein? Thank you very 14 much, sir. 15 His wife, Linda Stein. Is there anyone here 16 that knows Linda Stein? Thank you very much, ma'am. 17 Another plaintiff is Mr. David Warman and Paula 18 Warman. Ms. Warman is here; her husband is not here. They 19 live in Greenfield, Indiana. Is there anyone here that knows 20 Paula Warman or David Warman? 21 MS. WARMAN: Greenville. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Greenville. This one is not my 23 fault. 24 MS. WARMAN: That's all right. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Anyway, Indiana. Nice part of 36 1 Indiana. Does anyone know Ms. Paula Warman or Mr. David 2 Warman? Thank you very much. 3 Is there -- if my calculation is right, I should 4 have introduced everyone that's sitting in these chairs here. 5 Is there anyone that I haven't introduced? Even though you 6 may be a sister or brother that came with somebody, just let 7 me know. 8 MS. MUDD: I do. My brother and spouses with 9 Husband. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Would you-all stand up and 11 introduce yourselves to the jury. Just say your names down 12 the road. 13 MR. MUDD: I'm Charles Mudd. 14 MR. J. HUSBAND: James Husband. 15 MS. HUSBAND: Shannon Husband. 16 MR. S. HUSBAND: Steven Husband. 17 JUDGE POTTER: I asked you if you knew, you 18 know, Ms. Mudd or Mr. Husband's family, but now that you see 19 these people does that help you? Does anybody know any of 20 these people? Thank you-all very much. 21 MS. MELISSA FENTRESS: Melissa Fentress. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anyone here that knows 23 Ms. Melissa Fentress, and seeing her would help you. Thank 24 you very much, ma'am. 25 I've gone through the plaintiffs' attorneys and 37 1 the plaintiffs. Now I would like to turn to the defendant's 2 attorneys. One of the defendant's attorneys is Mr. Edward 3 Stopher. Would you stand up, sir. He has his offices in the 4 Providian Center, which is the -- I guess the Capital Holding 5 Building is what a lot of people know it. Is there anyone 6 here that knows Mr. Stopher or any member of his family or 7 anyone whom you believe to be associated with him in the 8 practice of law? 9 JUROR NO. 18: Yes, sir. Wagner, No. 18. I 10 work maintenance in the Providian building. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Let me get your name. 12 Okay. No. 18. You work maintenance? 13 JUROR NO. 18: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Do you have any special -- 15 JUROR NO. 18: I've never seen him before, sir. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I didn't know if you were 17 supposed to be responsible for his firm. Also in his firm who 18 is helping him -- also in his firm is Mr. McClure, Bob 19 McClure. Does anyone know Mr. McClure? Thank you very much, 20 Mr. Stopher. 21 MR. STOPHER: Thank you, Judge. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Also helping him would be Mr. Joe 23 Freeman -- Mr. Joe Freeman, Mr. Lawrence Myers. They have 24 their offices in Atlanta, Georgia. Is there anyone here that 25 knows Mr. Freeman or Mr. Myers or any member of their family 38 1 or anyone whom you believe to be associated with them in the 2 practice of law? Thank you very much. 3 MR. FREEMAN: Thank you, Judge. 4 JUDGE POTTER: They represent Eli Lilly, which 5 is a drug manufacturer, and it has its offices in 6 Indianapolis. Sheets of paper here. Please bear with me. 7 MS. ZETTLER: Judge, Mr. Sherer is now here if 8 you want to introduce him. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Sherer, would you 10 stand up, sir. I hate to grab you when you just came in. 11 Before, I asked you if you knew Gordon Sherer who lived on 12 Benham Road. Is there anyone -- now that you see him, does 13 that jog anybody's memory? Thank you very much, sir. 14 As I said, Eli Lilly is a drug manufacturer with 15 its head offices in Indianapolis. Its representative here at 16 trial will be Doctor Leigh Thompson. Would you stand up, sir. 17 He lives in Indianapolis or close to Indianapolis. Is there 18 anyone here who knows Doctor Thompson or any member of his 19 family? Thank you very much, sir. 20 Is there anyone here that has any contact with 21 Eli Lilly Company -- and I'm just going to call it Lilly after 22 now -- other than as having taken their products? I don't 23 know what their full line of products are, but they make a 24 great many products. Is there anybody here had any contact 25 with that company, other than as using their products? Let me 39 1 give you an example. Okay? You work in a drugstore or you're 2 a person that sells products and you sell their products. 3 JUROR NO. 25: My name is Borah, No. 25. I 4 worked in the pharmacy for Taylor Drugs. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Just one second, ma'am. 6 Do you know Lilly another way, just as one of the many 7 companies? 8 JUROR NO. 25: No. Only through their medicine. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, 10 ma'am. Let me just ask you this: Is there anything about 11 their company that you think might carry over to today? 12 JUROR NO. 25: No, sir. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 14 Thank you, ma'am. And let me give you some more ideas. You 15 service Xerox machines, and I don't know if they have an 16 office here in Louisville, but that's one of the offices. 17 Your daughter-in-law works for them. Other than somebody that 18 used their products -- some of you may have used their 19 products and not remember who manufactured them. Let me take 20 a row at a time so the people in the back won't have to keep 21 holding their hands up. 22 JUROR NO. 10: Ms. Chadwell, No. 10. I worked 23 four years for a pharmacy. I did not handle drugs, but I did 24 collect for them and whatnot. 25 JUDGE POTTER: If I understand what you're 40 1 saying, how long ago was this? 2 JUROR NO. 10: Four years ago. 3 JUDGE POTTER: And if I understand what you're 4 saying, is that you didn't handle the drugs but somebody might 5 come in, and if the pharmacist wasn't there, you'd get the 6 bag? 7 JUROR NO. 10: I was a clerk. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, ma'am. Anything about that 9 experience that would carry over to today? 10 JUROR NO. 10: No, sir. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else on the first row? 12 Now we go to the second row. Yes, ma'am? 13 JUROR NO. 81: Douglas, 51. I work in the 14 emergency department at Audubon and I deal with a lot of their 15 drug reps. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. It's 51 or 81? 17 JUROR NO. 81: Eighty-one. I'm sorry. 18 JUDGE POTTER: I may have misheard you. And you 19 work where? 20 JUROR NO. 81: I work at Audubon emergency room, 21 and I worked at the Jefferson County Jail two years ago and we 22 used their medication a lot. 23 JUDGE POTTER: And when you -- so you're 24 familiar not only with them as a company but their individual 25 drugs, whatever they happen to be? 41 1 JUROR NO. 81: Yes. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, 3 ma'am. And the gentleman next to you? 4 JUROR NO. 90: Ducoff, 90. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Ducoff, what 6 connection have you had, sir? I'm sorry. 7 JUROR NO. 90: Not with the company, but with 8 the drug. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Which drug? 10 JUROR NO. 90: Prozac. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, sir. 12 Anybody else on that second row? How about the 13 third row? 14 JUROR NO. 190: Russell, 190. I'm a licensed 15 practical nurse and I've administered some of their drugs. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anything about -- 17 they're just one of many companies you've dealt with; right? 18 JUROR NO. 190: Right. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Is -- their products you've dealt 20 with, is there anything about that experience that you think 21 might carry over to today? 22 JUROR NO. 190: It's possible. 23 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Anybody else? What 24 am I back to, the third row there? Anybody on the third row 25 had any contact with Lilly, other than as somebody who's used 42 1 their product? How about the -- I'm losing track of my rows. 2 There's a fourth row there. I tell you what, ma'am, would 3 you -- on the fourth row, is there anybody in that row who's 4 had any contact? We'll go back one row. We'll start on this 5 side. The lady with the red. Oh, you were just raising your 6 hand so they'd know which row it was? We'll go to the 7 gentleman in the middle. 8 JUROR NO. 217: Mullane, 217. My wife's nephew 9 is employed by Lilly. 10 JUDGE POTTER: In what capacity? 11 JUROR NO. 217: I believe he's a research 12 chemist, Doctor Don Lechleiter. Do you know him? 13 DOCTOR THOMPSON: (Nods head affirmatively). 14 JUDGE POTTER: And he lives in Indianapolis? 15 JUROR NO. 217: Yes. He lives there. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. 17 Anybody else on that last row? Yes, ma'am? 18 JUROR NO. 201: Pierce, 201. I work for a 19 private physician here in Louisville. I have association with 20 pharmaceutical representatives and we also dispense their 21 medications on a regular basis. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. You're in the book -- 23 you're the bookkeeper, Girl Friday for the office? 24 JUROR NO. 201: Yes. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think there's anything 43 1 about -- either one way or the other about your experiences in 2 your office that might carry over to today? 3 JUROR NO. 201: Probably. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Anybody else on the last 5 row? Let me remind you of what the question is. We only have 6 five rows, right, the people behind you there. We're supposed 7 to just have one, two, three, four. You-all didn't get put in 8 the way you were supposed to; that's what's happened. I guess 9 this last row is kind of a short row. Is there anybody back 10 there that's had any contact with Lilly, other than as a user 11 of some of its products? 12 Now I want to ask you has anybody had any 13 contact with Lilly as a user of its products, and whether it's 14 Prozac or anything else, who has had an out-of-the-ordinary 15 result? And that could be, you know, it cured you very 16 wonderfully or you had a bad reaction to some product. Is 17 there anybody that's had an out-of-the-ordinary experience 18 with Lilly as a user of its products? It can be either way. 19 Again I'll go by rows. Anybody in the first row? How about 20 the second row? Okay. You've told us that. 21 JUROR NO. 90: Ninety. Used Prozac; right. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else in the second row? 23 How about the third row? The fourth row? And that short row? 24 Okay. Let me see if you-all have had any contact with other 25 parties in this case that you might be called -- although 44 1 they're not here, you might be called upon to judge their 2 contact. One is Mr. Joseph Wesbecker. Is there anybody here 3 that has any contact with Mr. Wesbecker? He was your 4 next-door neighbor? 5 JUROR NO. 122: (Raises his hand). 6 JUDGE POTTER: You just knew him at Standard 7 Gravure? 8 JUROR NO. 122: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else? Yes, ma'am? 10 JUROR NO. 205: Gregory, 205. He lived in my 11 subdivision, but I did not know the gentleman. I did not even 12 recognize his picture when I saw it, but he did live in my 13 subdivision. 14 JUDGE POTTER: How big a subdivision, Ms. 15 Gregory, do you live in? 16 JUROR NO. 205: It's pretty good size. It's got 17 two large circles, and he lived right at the very entrance of 18 the subdivision on the outer circle, and I'm on the inner 19 circle. I knew nothing of him until this happened. 20 JUDGE POTTER: But I suppose when this happened 21 it was the topic of conversation in the subdivision? 22 JUROR NO. 205: Yes. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think that -- and you may 24 want to think about this, all right, and if you do we'll talk 25 about it later. Do you think there's anything that you heard 45 1 in the subdivision or something that might carry over to 2 today? In other words, if you decided this case one way or 3 the other, you might be afraid when you get back to your 4 subdivision people would criticize you one way or the other? 5 JUROR NO. 205: No. No. Because a couple of 6 houses of people that I talked to that lived right close to 7 him, I didn't even really know them, and they just discussed 8 what happened that day. And they themselves seldom ever saw 9 him or even knew him, so that was the only thing I heard about 10 him. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 12 Another party is Standard Gravure, which was the 13 printing company that was located up there. Those of you that 14 I know have worked for it, I have. We've got two of them, is 15 there any -- raise your hand of people that worked for 16 Standard Gravure. I thought there were two of them. All 17 right. There are two of you. Is there anybody else that 18 has -- had had some contact with Standard Gravure? Yes, 19 ma'am? 20 JUROR NO. 123: Passanisi, 123. My 21 father-in-law worked for Standard Gravure. 22 JUDGE POTTER: And what is your father-in-law's 23 name? 24 JUROR NO. 123: Joe Passanisi. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Was he working there in 1989? 46 1 JUROR NO. 123: Yes, he was. 2 JUDGE POTTER: And I take it you get along with 3 your father-in-law, so you've seen him numerous times since 4 then? 5 JUROR NO. 123: Yes. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, 7 ma'am. Anybody else have some contact with Standard Gravure, 8 and it could be -- oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see you. 9 JUROR NO. 109: 109. Rabenecker. My brother 10 was in the building at the time of the shooting. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Was he in there as a worker or he 12 was there -- 13 JUROR NO. 109: He worked for them, yeah. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Worked for Standard Gravure? 15 JUROR NO. 109: Yeah. He was in maintenance. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? 17 And this is the kind of thing that a relative worked for 18 Standard Gravure; you serviced Xerox machines and they were on 19 your route; you're the guy that fills up the Coke machines in 20 the route; you sell ink and they bought ink from you. Okay? 21 MS. ZETTLER: Judge, I think a lady just raised 22 her hand. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, ma'am? 24 JUROR NO. 222: I can't get up. My husband 25 worked at Standard Gravure, but he retired before this 47 1 happened. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And what is your name, 3 ma'am? 4 JUROR NO. 222: Whitehouse, 222. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. You've got it I see here 6 on your sheet. When did he retire? 7 JUROR NO. 222: I can't remember. About 17 or 8 18 years ago. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I take it you have a lot 10 of friends that used to work at Standard Gravure? 11 JUROR NO. 222: No. 12 JUDGE POTTER: What I'm trying to get at is, 13 have you talked about this a whole lot with a lot of people? 14 JUROR NO. 222: No. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Yes, 16 ma'am? 17 JUROR NO. 38: Jones, 38. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Ms. Jones? 19 JUROR NO. 38: Church member named Roy Wacker 20 used to work there. He's deceased, but it had nothing to do 21 with this case. Natural causes. 22 JUDGE POTTER: And I take it there's nothing 23 about that -- 24 JUROR NO. 38: (Shakes head negatively). 25 JUDGE POTTER: -- that would carry over to 48 1 today. 2 JUROR NO. 38: No. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? 4 Okay. Another company that you may hear 5 something about is a company called Hall Security. They 6 supplied the -- a guard or a watchman, or whatever you want to 7 call it, that was on the premises at the time this happened. 8 Now, Hall Security has its offices at 1400 Berry Boulevard. 9 Its owner is Carolyn Tamas, T-A-M-A-S. Is there anyone here 10 that knows or has any connection with Hall Security? 11 MR. STOPHER: Judge, it's pronounced Tamas. 12 JUDGE POTTER: I'm not doing very well today. 13 MR. STOPHER: It can go either way. It's a 14 close call. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anybody here that had 16 any contact with Hall Security? 17 JUROR NO. 137: Snyder, 137. My son works with 18 security there. 19 MR. SMITH: What was your name, sir? 20 JUROR NO. 137: Snyder. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Works security where, sir? 22 JUROR NO. 137: At Standard Gravure. I'm not 23 sure if it's Hall. I guess that's who it is. 24 JUDGE POTTER: How long has he done that? 25 JUROR NO. 137: Four, five years. 49 1 JUDGE POTTER: And what is your son's name? 2 JUROR NO. 137: Gerald. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Snyder? 4 JUROR NO. 137: Snyder. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Was he working there when this 6 happened? 7 JUROR NO. 137: I don't believe so. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, sir. 9 Anyone else? 10 Let me ask you more kind of a general question, 11 and the lawyers later, and perhaps myself, will ask you some 12 more specific questions. Now, I'm sure all of you or almost 13 all of you have read something about this shooting in the 14 newspaper, not only when it happened, but maybe in the years 15 since. Is there anyone here who feels they have some kind of 16 special insight or knowledge about what went on that day? 17 Okay. And that may be that your next-door neighbor worked 18 down there and came and told you or, you know, you became very 19 interested in this and had done a lot of work about it. It's 20 hard for me to think up all the ways you might be different 21 from the rest of us in your knowledge about what went on that 22 day, and this will be explored a little bit more later. But 23 what I want you to do is to kind of reflect back on your own 24 knowledge of what went on that day. Do you feel that you have 25 any knowledge that probably most people don't have because you 50 1 had a particularly close contact with it in some regard? You 2 know, I mean, I don't know how it would happen. You might 3 work for a company somewhere else, and they told you go find 4 out all you can about this for some reason. Do you understand 5 what I'm saying? 6 JUROR NO. 122: Your Honor, I probably show a 7 little more interest in it than the majority of people would 8 because I -- of the fact that I did have a connection with 9 Standard Gravure at an earlier date. 10 JUDGE POTTER: And I'm going to go by rows. 11 Anybody else on the first row that feels they had some special 12 interest or contact with what went on that day? 13 JUROR NO. 10: Chadwell, No. 10. I knew someone 14 that was there at the time and just heard some comments about 15 some things. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. When was -- the person you 17 knew that worked there, who was that, may I ask? 18 JUROR NO. 10: Jerry Smith. 19 JUDGE POTTER: And what did Mr. Smith do for the 20 company? 21 JUROR NO. 10: I don't know. But he -- I heard 22 him make the remark about holding one of the victims or 23 something to that effect. 24 JUDGE POTTER: And these conversations took 25 place right around whenever this thing happened in 1989? 51 1 JUROR NO. 10: Right. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Have you talked to Mr. Smith 3 since then about this? 4 JUROR NO. 10: No, I haven't. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 6 Anybody on the second row? Let me keep my -- you-all have to 7 keep up with your rows. You know what the second row is? How 8 about the third row? Yes, ma'am? 9 JUROR NO. 109: 109. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Your last name and your badge 11 number? 12 JUROR NO. 109: Rabenecker, 109. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Yes, 14 ma'am. 15 JUROR NO. 205: Gregory, 205. Your Honor, I 16 don't mean to keep bringing this up, but I just mentioned that 17 I knew Mr. Wesbecker for the simple fact he lived in the same 18 subdivision I did, but as far as discussing what happened with 19 a lot of neighbors, that wasn't discussed. It was just told 20 what did happen, but as far as the man himself, nothing was 21 discussed that morning. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. That's the 23 second row. Anybody in the first three rows? How about the 24 fourth row? Yes, ma'am. 25 JUROR NO. 123: Passanisi, 123. My 52 1 father-in-law was down there the morning of the shootings, and 2 it was spoke of several weeks after that. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And probably on and on 4 from time to time since? 5 JUROR NO. 123: Yes. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 7 Anybody else on that -- and then the very last row? 8 JUROR NO. 137: Yes, sir. Snyder again. I had 9 relatives and friends that worked there. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And you told us -- 11 JUROR NO. 137: 137, Snyder. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much. Now let me 13 turn to a question that I think probably all of you have had 14 on your mind, the back of your mind. And when I tell you what 15 the question is I bet most of you will go, "Yeah, that's 16 right." How long will this trial take. Have some of you been 17 thinking about that? All right. The attorneys have made an 18 estimate of six to eight weeks. Before we go into this, let 19 me say a few things. First some obvious points. None of you 20 wants to be here. All right. I mean, if you were asked you 21 might say, "It's my civic duty; I want to perform it," but if 22 you were honest with yourself I'm sure every one of you has 23 someplace else you'd rather be, not only today, but in the 24 upcoming weeks. So the fact that you don't want to be here in 25 a down-deep sense, that applies to absolutely every juror in 53 1 every case ever. I think it's nice to think you're coming 2 down here to do your civic duty, but I think some of you were 3 afraid that if you didn't come my sheriff might come out and 4 get you. This jury service I think is often compared to 5 voting; voting is a high civic duty and serving on a jury is a 6 high civic duty. And while that's true, I think jury service 7 is more like a draft in the army. Voting is something you can 8 do in a matter of minutes out of your day. Oftentimes jury 9 service takes weeks and can take longer. I don't want to 10 sound too high-minded about jury service, and all of you know 11 that I can get you quotes from famous people from long ago or 12 philosophers about the importance of the jury system and jury 13 service. But rather than do that, I'm going to read you 14 something that is a short thing that I read in the book that 15 was criticizing jury service. And this book was written this 16 year and it was talking about juries, and it was not a big 17 booster of jury trials, so we're not talking about something a 18 long time ago. We're not talking about somebody who is out to 19 praise juries. But this person, after studying, came to the 20 conclusion that juries and the jury trial system is, and I 21 quote, "The most potent, ingenious vehicle for self rule ever 22 invented." 23 So I want to emphasize that what we're dealing 24 with here is something that is fairly important to society, 25 and that when we think about not being on this jury, I ask you 54 1 in your own mind to think about what you -- who you would want 2 on a jury if you were having this case tried. Okay? And try 3 and not bring things up unless it really is the most 4 compelling reasons. 5 Now, having said that, I'm going to ask a 6 question. We're going to go row by row and then we'll talk to 7 you about it individually. Do any of you know any reason that 8 it would be impossible or extremely difficult for you to sit 9 here the next six to eight weeks and give this case their 10 attention? And I'm going to go by rows because I feel there 11 might be more than one or two of you to answer this question. 12 And when you think about this, I want you to keep in mind the 13 importance that this case be decided by, you know, people that 14 represent society and think about whether or not you would 15 want a jury -- who you would want on the jury if you had an 16 important case. And every case is important to the people 17 that are involved. Is there anybody on the first row who 18 feels it would be very difficult or impossible for them to sit 19 here and give this case their attention for the next six to 20 eight weeks? Yes, ma'am. You are Ms. -- 21 JUROR NO. 10: Chadwell, No. 10. I have a 22 mother in a nursing home and I go three and four times a week. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I tell you what we're 24 going to do, Ms. Chadwell. As I said in the beginning, we're 25 going to come back and talk to you-all individually, and I'm 55 1 going to take the names at this point of people that have 2 something that they feel they need to discuss. Anybody else 3 there on the first row? How about the second row? Yes, sir. 4 Your last name and your badge number. 5 JUROR NO. 133: Higgs, 133. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Wait just a second. Say that 7 again. 8 JUROR NO. 133: Higgs, 133. 9 JUDGE POTTER: You feel there's something that 10 might prevent you from serving? 11 JUROR NO. 133: Yes, sir. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir? 13 JUROR NO. 90: Ducoff, 90. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. 15 JUROR NO. 162: Duff, 162. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. 17 Anybody else in that second row? How about this third row? 18 Yes, sir. 19 JUROR NO. 181: Martin, 181. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Martin. 21 Did I see another hand? 22 JUROR NO. 190: Russell, 190. 23 JUDGE POTTER: You said Ms. Russell, No. 190. 24 Anybody else in Ms. Russell's row, the third row back? The 25 fourth row? Yes, ma'am? 56 1 JUROR NO. 21: Trumbo, 21. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir? 3 JUROR NO. 148: Sweet, 148. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir? 5 JUROR NO. 18: Wagner, 18. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else on that -- yes, 7 ma'am. 8 JUROR NO. 201: Pierce, 201. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else? Then we have the 10 fourth row, which is the last row, anybody in that row? 11 JUROR NO. 17: Russell, 17. 12 JUDGE POTTER: I'm sorry? 13 JUROR NO. 17: Russell, 17. 14 JUDGE POTTER: And, yes, ma'am. 15 JUROR NO. 104: Stewart, 104. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I'm going to take a 17 recess. 18 JUROR NO. 126: Peck, 126, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir. 20 JUROR NO. 126: I recognize another member of 21 the -- the Fentress girl. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Peck? 23 JUROR NO. 126: Yeah. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Who do you recognize? 25 JUROR NO. 126: Missy Fentress. 57 1 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Fentress or her daughter? 2 JUROR NO. 126: Her daughter. 3 JUDGE POTTER: How do you know them? 4 JUROR NO. 126: She's acquainted with my 5 daughters and her with softball and cheerleading. 6 JUDGE POTTER: How long ago was that? 7 JUROR NO. 126: About six, seven years ago. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about that that 9 you think might carry over to today? 10 JUROR NO. 126: I don't think so. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Let me tell you the way 12 I'm going to do this and it's going to be -- I'm going to 13 give -- what's going to -- as I said before, there's going to 14 be a questionnaire, and I'm going to give the questionnaire to 15 the last three rows. Okay. And I'm going to ask you-all to 16 go back to the jury pool and they will assist you in filling 17 out that questionnaire. Okay. And then you can go to lunch, 18 and I want you to come back here at 2:00. Would everybody 19 that thinks they're in the last three rows raise their hand? 20 So, I've got four rows over here, five rows over there. Those 21 people that have their hands up, I'm going to have the -- do 22 we have the questionnaires here? Mr. Sheriff, would you pass 23 out a questionnaire to each of those people that have their 24 hand up -- Madame Sheriff? And then what you're going to do 25 is my sheriff will take you-all back to the jury pool and fill 58 1 those out, turn them in, and then be back here at 2:00. Am I 2 making myself clear? Do I need you to do a buddy system, 3 handcuff you to the person next to you? Let me tell you this: 4 You're not going to have to remember where you're sitting. 5 All right. The first two rows, what I'm going 6 to do is I'm going to take a recess, but I'm going to ask you 7 to wait outside in the lobby and my sheriff will call you in 8 and we may talk to some of you individually. All right. Now, 9 at this recess and absolutely every recess -- and I'll tell 10 you what. We'll take a break till noon on everybody, so even 11 the first row you-all can have a ten-minute recess. 12 All right. This recess and absolutely every 13 recess, I'm going to give you an admonition -- this is some 14 rules and regulations you should follow during this recess and 15 absolutely every recess. And the reason I'll give it to you 16 all the time is because it's important. The first part of it 17 will probably occur to you even if I didn't say anything. Do 18 not permit anyone to speak to or communicate with you on any 19 topic connected with this trial, and any attempt to do so 20 should be reported to me. But let me tell you the full 21 ramifications of that. When you usually think of that 22 admonition, you think of somebody that has some connection 23 with the case or somebody that has some improper motive. It 24 applies to absolutely everybody. We're talking your husband, 25 your wife, the person that sells you the lottery ticket on the 59 1 way home today, the person that rides on the bus with you, 2 whatever it happens to be. Your family -- you will just have 3 to tell them -- you can tell them what case it is, but after 4 that, tell them we can't talk about it till it's over. 5 There's another way somebody might try and 6 communicate with you, and that's by reading something in the 7 newspaper or hearing something on television. So don't read 8 about it in the newspaper. If you see it starting to come on 9 the television, hit the mute button. And the reason for that 10 is nobody's trying to hide anything from you. You're going to 11 hear more information about this case than you could ever get 12 out of a newspaper or you could ever get out of television. 13 The point of it is it's up to you as a juror to decide what's 14 important. The press, with all due respect to them, come and 15 go. Like there are none of them here now. They were here 16 when it started, and then they leave. They come and go. And 17 it's not for them to tell you this was important, that was 18 important. They may not have been here when something 19 important happened. Do you understand what I'm saying here? 20 Can you-all see the point of it? 21 JUROR NO. 190: Russell, 190. I have something 22 that I would like to tell you, I didn't want to say in front 23 of people, if I could tell you. 24 JUDGE POTTER: I tell you what, Ms. Russell, at 25 2:00, when you come back you'll get an opportunity to do that. 60 1 Normally in a smaller trial when some of you 2 raised your hand and said, "I know Mr. Smith," I would have 3 brought you up here and we talk about it up here, but just the 4 physical layout doesn't permit that, so that's why we're 5 breaking it down. 6 Another part of the admonition is do not discuss 7 this case among yourselves. You-all can talk about -- you 8 can't talk about the baseball season, but you can talk about 9 what would have been the baseball season. You can talk about 10 how the air-conditioning is not working very well in here. 11 You can talk about whatever you want to talk about, but don't 12 talk about this case. And the reason for this is at the end 13 of this trial we want jurors, independent jurors, and if 14 you-all begin to talk about this case in any way among 15 yourselves, you won't be independent people. You'll be people 16 that are already starting to influence one another, and that's 17 not supposed to happen till you get back to the jury room 18 because we want you to be your own sort of isolated person, 19 not only from your husband and your wife and your children, 20 but also from your other jurors. 21 Another part of the admonition, do not form or 22 express opinions about this case until it is finally submitted 23 to you for your determination. First of all, the evidence is 24 going to come in in a certain order, not necessarily the most 25 important evidence first. And, basically, what that 61 1 admonition is is to keep an open mind. And I think you can 2 see -- let's say halfway through the case you made up your 3 mind about what it was all about or how it ought to come out, 4 you wouldn't give the evidence in the second half of the case 5 the same open-minded treatment that you gave the evidence in 6 the first half of the case. Okay. So don't form or express 7 opinions about this case until it is finally submitted to you. 8 Let's go over the rules one more time. We're 9 going to take -- we'll go to ten after twelve. A 15-minute 10 recess for the first two rows. Would everybody in the first 11 two rows raise your right hand. Come back, wait outside for 12 my sheriff to call you in and be back here at 12:10. Would 13 the other people raise their hand. If you've got to look side 14 to side -- there you are. You-all take your questionnaires 15 back to the jury pool, fill them out -- yes, sir. You-all 16 didn't have enough? Are we short? 17 The jury pool personnel will assist you, if you 18 want them, in filling it out. You know, if you have 19 something, any kind of problems over there, just contact one 20 of them and they will help you complete the questionnaire. 21 They can't really answer very many questions about it, but if 22 you have some small questions, you might ask them about it. 23 And I guess that would be the only -- if that's considered 24 talking about this case, you can talk to them and fill out the 25 questionnaire about this case, but the questionnaire is really 62 1 not about this case; it's about you. 2 Okay. All right. Remembering that admonition, 3 for some of you we'll stand in recess till two o'clock; for 4 the rest of you we'll stand in recess till ten minutes after 5 twelve. You-all can come and go through the back door, that 6 door there. 7 (RECESS) 8 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, we're going 9 to get started. Let me go through my notes and we'll tell you 10 the first juror that said anything is Mr. Bleuel. My 11 intention at this would be to bring Mr. Bleuel in and ask him 12 some questions to see what he knows about this. He has a 13 grandson that works at Hall Security, anyway, Standard Gravure 14 in security. He knows Mr. Ganote. He worked at Standard 15 Gravure. Does anybody have any objection to just excusing Mr. 16 Bleuel without bringing him in? 17 MR. SMITH: Plaintiff has no objection, Your 18 Honor. 19 MR. STOPHER: No objection. 20 MR. FREEMAN: No objection. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. So Mr. Bleuel, Juror 22 No. 122 is excused. 23 The next juror that I have that answered a 24 question of anything would be Ms. Borah. And I'm just going 25 down my list; it may not be in the same order yours is. She 63 1 works in Taylor Drugs at the pharmacy. I guess we need Ms. 2 Borah just to follow up on if she has any opinions about drugs 3 one way or the other, or do you just want to leave what 4 happened there happened? 5 MR. STOPHER: Judge, I think that will come out 6 on the questionnaire. I see no reason to question her at this 7 time. 8 MR. SMITH: The thing is, if she has a 9 preconceived idea, why put her through having to fill out the 10 questionnaire. 11 JUDGE POTTER: This isn't going to take long. 12 Will you ask Ms. Mabel Borah, No. 25, to come 13 in. 14 (JUROR NO. 25 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 15 JUDGE POTTER: Hello, Ms. Borah. Would you step 16 down here. 17 JUROR NO. 25: Okay. 18 JUDGE POTTER: You're Ms. Mabel Borah, No. 25; 19 is that right? 20 JUROR NO. 25: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE POTTER: How are you today? 22 JUROR NO. 25: Fine. 23 JUDGE POTTER: In the questions, you said you 24 had some contact with Lilly because you worked at Taylor Drug 25 in their pharmacy? 64 1 JUROR NO. 25: Uh-huh. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Did you retire from there? 3 JUROR NO. 25: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE POTTER: When was that? 5 JUROR NO. 25: A year ago. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Do you want to tell me just in 7 general if you have any experience about Lilly out of the 8 ordinary or you've formed any opinions about Prozac or 9 anything? 10 JUROR NO. 25: No, I haven't. My 11 daughter-in-law took it. She said she felt good. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Is she still taking it? 13 JUROR NO. 25: No. Her mother is real sick. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Have you had any other contact 15 with the drug other than through your daughter-in-law? 16 JUROR NO. 25: That's it. And she lives in 17 Florida. 18 JUDGE POTTER: She's still your daughter-in-law; 19 right? 20 JUROR NO. 25: Yes. 21 JUDGE POTTER: But at Taylor's there was nothing 22 where the pharmacist said something one way or the other or 23 you-all talked about it a lot, because this has been in the 24 newspaper over the years. 25 JUROR NO. 25: We didn't have time to talk. We 65 1 just filled prescriptions. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody else have any 3 questions they'd like me to ask Ms. Borah on this topic? 4 MR. SMITH: Did you work in the pharmacy part or 5 did you actually fill prescriptions? 6 JUROR NO. 25: Yes, sir. I counted and filled. 7 MR. SMITH: Was Prozac a prescription that you 8 filled regularly? 9 JUROR NO. 25: Yes, sir. 10 MR. SMITH: And when those people came in to get 11 their Prozac, would they discuss with you how they were 12 reacting to Prozac generally one way or the other? 13 JUROR NO. 25: No, sir. 14 MR. SMITH: Did you form any opinion concerning 15 the quality of Prozac as an antidepressant or as a drug, based 16 on anything you saw or heard at the pharmacy? 17 JUROR NO. 25: No, sir. 18 MR. SMITH: Now, would you have a tendency to 19 accept your daughter's (sic) experience in connection with 20 Prozac as being more credible than other individuals' -- 21 JUROR NO. 25: No, sir. 22 MR. SMITH: -- experiences with Prozac? 23 JUROR NO. 25: No, sir. I've never took it, so 24 I don't know. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, ma'am. 66 1 Would you wait outside, because I'm going to call you back in 2 one more time. 3 (JUROR NO. 25 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 4 MR. STOPHER: Judge, I have a question and 5 probably an objection about the procedure. I thought the 6 Court was going to ask the questions and Mr. Smith -- 7 JUDGE POTTER: I did say does anybody have any 8 questions they want me to ask Ms. Borah. And, Mr. Smith, I 9 really think the ground rules are at this time that this is -- 10 MR. SMITH: I apologize. I thought you were 11 opening it up. Once you do that with a bunch of lawyers... 12 JUDGE POTTER: Yes. Exactly. Does anyone have 13 any motions regarding Ms. Borah at this point? 14 MR. FREEMAN: No, sir. 15 JUDGE POTTER: The next one I have is Betty 16 Chadwell. She worked in the pharmacy four years ago; she 17 knows Jerry Smith; and she doesn't think she has eight weeks 18 to give out at this time. 19 MR. SMITH: Is there time to make a motion? 20 JUDGE POTTER: If you think there's anything at 21 this point. 22 MR. SMITH: Will we have an opportunity once the 23 questionnaire is filled out and once we're able to question 24 the witnesses exclusively individually? 25 JUDGE POTTER: Certainly. But the point is, I 67 1 just didn't want you to make it two days from now and say, 2 Judge, remember back. It's just so that two days from now or 3 tomorrow when you make it it's on information that came in. 4 (JUROR NO. 10 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 5 JUDGE POTTER: You're Ms. Betty Chadwell, No. 6 10? 7 JUROR NO. 10: Yes. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Have a seat, ma'am. I remind you 9 you're still under oath. You indicated that you would have 10 difficulty giving four to six weeks? 11 JUROR NO. 10: Right. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Why is that? 13 JUROR NO. 10: Because of the responsibilities 14 with my mother in the nursing home and then with my brother in 15 the hospital. 16 JUDGE POTTER: How long has your mother been in 17 the nursing home? 18 JUROR NO. 10: Since February. And there's not 19 anyone else in the family that could look after her. I look 20 after all of her affairs. 21 JUDGE POTTER: And why is your brother in the 22 hospital? 23 JUROR NO. 10: He has cancer. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Is he expected to leave the 25 hospital? 68 1 JUROR NO. 10: He possibly will leave, but it's 2 a matter of probably not more than four weeks that he's 3 expected to live. 4 JUDGE POTTER: And your mother is just age, is 5 that... 6 JUROR NO. 10: Well, she's 89 years old and she 7 just can't handle her body. 8 JUDGE POTTER: But as far as providing for her, 9 the nursing home does that; you just handle her affairs and go 10 by to be a comfort to her? 11 JUROR NO. 10: Well, and more or less to see 12 that things are done the way they should be and whatnot. 13 JUDGE POTTER: You worked in a pharmacy four 14 years ago? 15 JUROR NO. 10: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE POTTER: And I may have it wrong because I 17 made quick notes. And you were a clerk and not the -- 18 JUROR NO. 10: No. I wasn't a pharmacist. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Did anything about that 20 experience, did you form any opinions about Eli Lilly or 21 Prozac? 22 JUROR NO. 10: No. Not from that, hunh-uh. 23 JUDGE POTTER: That implies that you've formed 24 some from some other source? 25 JUROR NO. 10: Well, other than just what I've 69 1 heard about Prozac. 2 JUDGE POTTER: And what have you heard about it 3 just in a general sense? 4 JUROR NO. 10: Well, lots of things, but it's an 5 antidepressant, and I do know that it can cause lots of 6 problems. Of course, I know a lot of times you can have 7 problems without that, too, so... 8 JUDGE POTTER: But as far as being anything 9 specific, your pharmacy experience and these other topics 10 haven't given you a firm feeling one way or another? 11 JUROR NO. 10: No. 12 JUDGE POTTER: How did you know Jerry Smith? 13 JUROR NO. 10: Know him casually. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about your 15 knowledge of Jerry Smith that you think might carry over to 16 today? 17 JUROR NO. 10: No. No. 18 JUDGE POTTER: You wouldn't be embarrassed if 19 you had to decide against his side or you wouldn't feel like 20 you had to decide for him? 21 JUROR NO. 10: No. I know his former wife and 22 his son, but... 23 JUDGE POTTER: The -- does your brother have 24 family? 25 JUROR NO. 10: He has five children. 70 1 JUDGE POTTER: And they're here -- some of them 2 are here in Louisville to look after him? 3 JUROR NO. 10: Yes. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Explain for me, if you would, -- 5 I know it would be inconvenient -- as far as your mother goes, 6 if you had to serve on this jury, why you couldn't go see her 7 at 7:00 at night and maybe your husband could check on her 8 during the day a few times if you were to serve? 9 JUROR NO. 10: It would be difficult. 10 JUDGE POTTER: But your husband drives? 11 JUROR NO. 10: Yes. My husband has also had 12 cancer and has a laryngectomy. And, of course, he works part 13 time for Kroger, as well. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 15 JUROR NO. 10: It would be quite difficult for 16 me to serve that length of time. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Is there any question that either 18 lawyer wants me to ask the lady? 19 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, she mentioned earlier 20 that she had heard some comments -- at least I wrote that 21 down -- that Jerry Smith held one of the victims on the day of 22 the shootings. 23 JUROR NO. 10: I don't know who. 24 MR. STOPHER: I would request that the Court ask 25 her what comments were made. 71 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. What did you hear about 2 that? 3 JUROR NO. 10: I just heard him make the remark 4 that one of the victims, that he had held his head or 5 something to that effect -- and I don't know whether he died 6 -- waiting for him to go to the hospital. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Comforting the person or trying 8 to help the person after the shooting? 9 JUROR NO. 10: Right. Right. He was, I think, 10 supposed to go to work maybe the next shift or something like 11 that and happened to be there. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith? 13 MR. SMITH: (Shakes head negatively). 14 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, 15 ma'am. I'm going to ask you to wait outside and then I'll 16 call you back in. And I'll remind you about my admonition to 17 not talk about the case. Thank you. 18 JUROR NO. 10: All right, sir. 19 (JUROR NO. 10 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 20 JUDGE POTTER: What do you-all want to do with 21 her? 22 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, we would ask that she 23 go ahead and be excused on the ground that particularly her 24 brother who has cancer and is in the hospital, and if he dies 25 in four weeks we're going to lose a juror, I'm afraid. 72 1 JUDGE POTTER: What do you say, Mr. Smith? 2 MR. SMITH: I agree, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Chadwell, No. 10, is excused. 4 Now I have Mr. Ducoff wants to be excused 5 because he doesn't have eight weeks and, if I remember 6 correctly, he's the gentleman back here that has used Prozac 7 or commented -- 8 MR. STOPHER: Did you miss Ms. Douglas, Cheryl 9 Douglas, works at Audubon? 10 JUDGE POTTER: Yes. I did miss that. She's -- 11 all right. Marsha, will you call Cheryl Douglas, No. 81. 12 That's a female. 13 (JUROR NO. 81 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 14 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Douglas, would you step down 15 here and have a seat, please. Ma'am, I remind you you're 16 still under oath. 17 Ms. Douglas, you indicated that when you worked 18 at Audubon ER and in the jail you prescribed or administered 19 medication, and I take it the medication you were talking 20 about was Prozac? 21 JUROR NO. 81: Uh-huh. I didn't administer, I'm 22 not a nurse, but I was... 23 JUDGE POTTER: Giving it to people when the 24 doctor had ordered it; is that fair to say? 25 JUROR NO. 81: Well, I would get it, but the 73 1 nurses would be the ones giving it. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about that 3 experience that you think might carry over to today, keeping 4 in mind that one of the allegations or claims in this lawsuit 5 is that Prozac, you know, was not properly labeled or 6 manufactured and sold? 7 JUROR NO. 81: No. No, sir. 8 JUDGE POTTER: What did you do at the ER at 9 Audubon? 10 JUROR NO. 81: Emergency tech. I'm still 11 employed there. 12 JUDGE POTTER: I apologize. You-all have so 13 many different names. What does an ET do, ECT? 14 JUROR NO. 81: It's like nurse aide work. We 15 deal with the patients, do supplies, clean wounds, just help 16 the nurses out, help the doctors. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And did you -- when you 18 worked in the jail, what did you do there? 19 JUROR NO. 81: I was a clerk there. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. In the medical department? 21 JUROR NO. 81: Uh-huh. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything from either of 23 those experiences or any other source to where you feel you 24 formed some kind of opinion about Prozac? 25 JUROR NO. 81: No. 74 1 JUDGE POTTER: Is there any other question that 2 any of the lawyers would like me to ask the witness? 3 MR. SMITH: Could we get a little more detail on 4 why the Prozac was being administered in the jail and under 5 what circumstances? 6 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Douglas, are you just 7 assuming they prescribed Lilly products in the jail or did you 8 know they were prescribing Prozac? 9 JUROR NO. 81: Well, they were giving the Prozac 10 to the people -- to some of the gentlemen that were on the 11 psych floor. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Anything else? 13 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Judge. She mentioned earlier 14 that she deals with drug representatives. 15 JUDGE POTTER: I thought that was somebody else. 16 Do you deal with the drug representatives -- oh, that's right. 17 They call at the ER. 18 JUROR NO. 81: They come in the ER and talk to 19 the physicians, and I deal with a lot of them. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Just because they're there and 21 making appointments and killing time, or are they actually 22 trying to talk to you to get the hospital to buy products? 23 JUROR NO. 81: Well, they mainly talk to the 24 physicians, but we do talk to them in general conversation. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything out of those 75 1 contacts, either with Lilly or with any other drug 2 representative, that you feel might carry over to today? 3 JUROR NO. 81: No, sir. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, 5 ma'am. Now, I'm going to remind you of my admonition. We'll 6 call you-all back in before I let you go for today, so don't 7 leave; just wait around. Okay? 8 JUROR NO. 81: Okay. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you. 10 (JUROR NO. 81 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 11 JUDGE POTTER: William Ducoff, No. 90. 12 MR. SMITH: And, again, we're not waiving any 13 motions by failing to make them at this time? 14 JUDGE POTTER: No. Does anybody have any 15 motions on what they've heard so far? 16 MR. FREEMAN: No, sir. 17 MR. SMITH: No. But am I -- 18 JUDGE POTTER: No. I don't think you've waived 19 your motions if you've held them to the very end, but your 20 chances of me ruling on them correctly are a lot better if 21 it's close to when I just heard the information. 22 (JUROR NO. 90 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 23 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Ducoff, would you step down 24 here, sir? How are you, Mr. Ducoff? 25 JUROR NO. 90: Can I be seated? 76 1 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir. I want to remind you 2 that you're still under oath, sir. You mentioned that you had 3 had contact with Prozac. You want to tell me a little bit 4 about that? 5 JUROR NO. 90: My wife, her doctor diagnosed her 6 as being depressed, in other words, and he prescribed Prozac. 7 And I have some rather strong feelings about it. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. What are those strong 9 feelings? 10 JUROR NO. 90: Well, if I were selected as a 11 juror, one side would be very happy and the other side would 12 be unhappy, because, I mean, in -- and I also have a 13 stepdaughter had the same reactions with the thing, in other 14 words, and took it also, took it from doctors prescribing it. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Well, you don't have to go over 16 the details, but I take it your wife is no longer on Prozac? 17 JUROR NO. 90: No. She's been off of it. They 18 took her off of it eight months because she had too much of 19 it. 20 JUDGE POTTER: She had a bad reaction? 21 JUROR NO. 90: Uh-huh. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Ducoff, you indicated it 23 would be difficult for you to give us six or eight weeks? 24 JUROR NO. 90: Well, that's right, because my 25 mother's 102 years old. She's in Meadows East Nursing Home. 77 1 I'm the only one that can do anything for her and what have 2 you. And if I got a call during the day to get her out of the 3 home, if she was dead or something like that, she's marked 4 terminal, why, they would have to come down here and get me 5 out of here. 6 JUDGE POTTER: What do you mean she's marked 7 terminal? 8 JUROR NO. 90: Well, I mean, she's 102 years 9 old. I mean, she's just laying there. She's not on any kind 10 of instruments. They feed her baby food and she manages to 11 digest it, but that would be the only thing there. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. But you do not anticipate 13 that she will die in the next six to eight weeks other than 14 just being 102? 15 JUROR NO. 90: I hope not. But I mean... 16 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. Mr. 17 Ducoff, let me say something to you. Remember my admonition 18 about talking about this case. And I'm going to call you-all 19 back in before I let you go. 20 JUROR NO. 90: I won't say a word. 21 JUDGE POTTER: But more importantly, sir, don't 22 leave. I want you to wait outside till I call you back in. 23 JUROR NO. 90: We're in a jury room. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Wherever my sheriff has 25 got you staked out. 78 1 (JUROR NO. 90 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 2 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody have any motions to 3 make on Mr. Ducoff? 4 MR. STOPHER: We move to strike him, Your Honor, 5 for cause. 6 JUDGE POTTER: In other words, you knew which 7 side would be unhappy? 8 MR. STOPHER: No. But the fact that he said one 9 side would is enough for cause. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, any other objection? 11 MR. SMITH: No, Your Honor. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Ducoff is dismissed for 13 cause. 14 Mr. Duff, No. 162, he had time as his... Only 15 thing he said is he had a -- 16 MS. ZETTLER: Said he had a hardship. 17 MR. SMITH: But I don't have any other comments 18 about him. 19 JUDGE POTTER: No. That was the only time he 20 spoke up. 21 (JUROR NO. 162 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Duff, would you have a 23 seat down here, sir. How are you, sir? 24 JUROR NO. 162: Fine. 25 JUDGE POTTER: I remind you you're still under 79 1 oath, Mr. Duff. 2 JUROR NO. 162: Yes, sir. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Do you want to tell me why -- the 4 reason I called you back is you indicated you felt it would be 5 a hardship for you to serve on this jury. 6 JUROR NO. 162: It's because my wife has a 7 severe cancer case and I don't expect her to last too much 8 longer. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Is she hospitalized or is she at 10 home? 11 JUROR NO. 162: No. She's at home. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Is she -- are nurses attending to 13 her? 14 JUROR NO. 162: No. Not right now. But before 15 this is over with, you know, I might have to, you know, be -- 16 take her to the hospital or different things of that nature. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. If you didn't -- other 18 than if she had a crisis in the sense that you had to take her 19 to the hospital, do you feel her situation is such that day to 20 day now you could come? 21 JUROR NO. 162: The way things are right now, 22 yes, but... 23 JUDGE POTTER: How often is she seeing a doctor? 24 JUROR NO. 162: Well, she goes every day for 25 chemo treatments and then she's off for a week or so, and then 80 1 she goes back every day for more chemo treatments. 2 JUDGE POTTER: And who gets her there for those? 3 JUROR NO. 162: Well, sometimes her sister takes 4 her; sometimes I have to take her. 5 JUDGE POTTER: But if you were on jury duty, for 6 the regular things she's going through now, her sister could 7 do that? 8 JUROR NO. 162: More than likely, yes. 9 JUDGE POTTER: And the only thing that would 10 create a problem for you on jury duty is if she went into some 11 kind of crisis? 12 JUROR NO. 162: If she gets worse, yes. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. This is a hard question to 14 ask, and I'm sure it's a harder question to answer. Have the 15 doctors said anything about her getting worse within the next 16 month or two? 17 JUROR NO. 162: Well, they only gave her roughly 18 nine months, and it's already been roughly six since her 19 operations. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Duff, I'm going to 21 remind you about my admonition about talking about the case 22 with anybody or letting anybody talk to you, and I'm going to 23 ask you to wait outside because I'll call you-all back in 24 together before I send you away for the evening. Okay? 25 JUROR NO. 162: Yes. 81 1 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Duff. 2 (JUROR NO. 162 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 3 JUDGE POTTER: Do you-all have any agreement 4 about Mr. Duff? 5 MR. SMITH: I think it would be proper for him 6 to spend his wife's last days with her. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith is saying he does not 8 object to Mr. Duff being excused. 9 MR. STOPHER: We agree. 10 MR. FREEMAN: I don't think he can think about 11 the case under those circumstances. 12 JUDGE POTTER: How about the lady that lived in 13 Mr. Wesbecker's neighborhood? 14 MR. STOPHER: Before you get to her, there was a 15 Mr. Fitch who said he's hard of hearing. You want to ask if 16 there's any problem with his sitting and serving? 17 JUDGE POTTER: I thought he told me if I moved 18 him down front he could make it, and we all spoke up. 19 MR. FREEMAN: He said if you talk as loud as you 20 were talking he could hear. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Do we want to call Mr. Fitch in 22 and talk about his hearing? I don't know anything about the 23 gentleman except he's 1916. 24 All right. Marsha, Mr. Paul Fitch, No. 14. 25 (JUROR NO. 14 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 82 1 JUDGE POTTER: You're Mr. Fitch, No. 14? 2 JUROR NO. 14: I am, sir. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Fitch, I remind you you're 4 still under oath. Having started this, do you feel that if we 5 put you on the front row up here if you're a juror you'd have 6 any problems with hearing things? 7 JUROR NO. 14: I don't believe I would. I 8 heard -- I could hear you from back there. Some of them I 9 couldn't hear in the back of me, see. But I don't think I'd 10 have any problem. 11 JUDGE POTTER: If you're on the jury, you'll be 12 sitting in the section over there and the witness will be up 13 there. 14 JUROR NO. 14: That will be fine. Okay. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. I'm 16 going to remind you of my admonition, and I'm going to ask you 17 not to leave till I call you-all back in one more time 18 together. 19 JUROR NO. 14: Okay. All right. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you, Mr. Fitch. 21 (JUROR NO. 14 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 22 JUDGE POTTER: Let me ask you about Ms. Gregory. 23 Is that enough of a loose cannon to where both sides want her 24 out? 25 MS. ZETTLER: Is she the one that lived in the 83 1 neighborhood? 2 MR. SMITH: I can't believe there wasn't 3 something said by the neighbors to her. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Do you have any problem with Ms. 5 Gregory who lived in Mr. Wesbecker's subdivision? I mean, 6 I'll call her in. 7 MR. STOPHER: I think she told you what she 8 knows, Judge. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Marsha, will you get in 10 Ms. Gregory, No. 205. I almost have the feeling it was doth 11 protest too much. 12 (JUROR NO. 205 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 13 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Gregory, would you have a 14 seat here. How are you today? I'd remind you you're still 15 under oath. You said you live in Mr. Wesbecker's subdivision? 16 JUROR NO. 205: Right. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Can you tell me a little bit 18 about what -- who you've talked to and what the subdivision 19 is -- you know, what contacts you've had because of that with 20 this case? 21 JUROR NO. 205: It was just I was coming back 22 from Breckinridge County that morning and I heard it on the 23 radio but I didn't -- I just knew that all of this had 24 happened at Standard Gravure. And when I turned in my 25 subdivision I saw some police cars and TV crews, and I 84 1 couldn't figure out what had happened. And I didn't connect 2 the two and, so, I went on home. 3 JUDGE POTTER: You didn't know him before that? 4 JUROR NO. 205: No. No. And, so, when I got 5 home, my husband was at home and I said, "Do you know what's 6 going on." And he said, "You haven't heard," and I said no. 7 Because, like I say, I didn't connect the two together. And 8 then he told me that there had been this shooting at Standard 9 Gravure and that's why they were there. And, so, I went back 10 down there and just... 11 JUDGE POTTER: Back down to his house? 12 JUROR NO. 205: Well, that area. Uh-huh. 13 Because, like I say, when you come in our subdivision, if you 14 went straight you would go right in the driveway where his 15 house was, you know, so you'd have to pass his house going in 16 or out. And, so, I just stopped and I pulled in a driveway of 17 some people that lived across the street, and I didn't even 18 know them. But when something like that happens you just talk 19 to people, and they just told me the same thing, that that had 20 happened, the shooting had happened, you know, and that the 21 man that lived there, they said that is the one that had gone 22 to work and done that, and that was it. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Had he ever caused any problems 24 for anybody you knew in the neighborhood? 25 JUROR NO. 205: No. No. Because these people 85 1 said they didn't really know him, either. 2 JUDGE POTTER: I assume because of this you may 3 have followed it a little more closely than the average 4 person? 5 JUROR NO. 205: Well, at first, but, now, the 6 large piece that was in yesterday's paper, the headlines, I 7 knew I was coming to jury duty today so I wouldn't read it, 8 because I was afraid, just in case, I thought, "I'm not going 9 to read anything about it." 10 JUDGE POTTER: Well, you didn't miss much. 11 JUROR NO. 205: Well, probably not. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think that you have read 13 things or formed things that -- formed ideas that might carry 14 over into this case about what caused it or whether or not his 15 drug use might have played some part in it or anything like 16 that? 17 JUROR NO. 205: No, because I don't know that 18 much of his history. I mean, I read that he was seeing a 19 doctor, that he was taking Prozac and some other medications, 20 but, I mean, I have no opinion as to whether that was his 21 problem or something else. I don't know. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Does anybody else have any 23 questions they want me to ask Ms. Gregory on this topic? 24 MR. SMITH: My only interest, Your Honor, would 25 be what characterizations the neighbors made concerning Mr. 86 1 Wesbecker's condition. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Did the neighbors tell you what 3 they thought the problem was, what caused this? 4 JUROR NO. 205: No. They didn't say what they 5 thought caused it. They said they didn't know anything about 6 the man, that he stayed to himself, and the only time they 7 really saw him was when he would leave to go to work, come 8 home and just go right down the street to the Key Market and 9 get a six pack of Pepsi-Colas and bring them back to the 10 house. They said, other than that, they didn't even see him. 11 He wasn't out in his yard or out working or anything like 12 that. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Gregory, I'm going to remind 14 you about my admonition about talking to anybody about this 15 case, and I'm going to ask you if you'll wait and then I'll 16 call everybody back in together. Thank you very much. 17 (JUROR NO. 205 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 18 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody have any motions 19 they want to make about Ms. Gregory? 20 Okay. Do you want to call George Higgs, No. 21 133? He's just a person that has problems with being here 22 eight weeks. 23 (JUROR NO. 133 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 24 JUDGE POTTER: Hello, Mr. Higgs. 25 JUROR NO. 133: Yes, Your Honor. 87 1 JUDGE POTTER: How are you today? I'd remind 2 you that you're still under oath, sir. Have a seat. 3 JUROR NO. 133: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE POTTER: You indicated that it would be 5 difficult or impossible for you to be here the next six to 6 eight weeks? 7 JUROR NO. 133: Uh-huh. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Do you want to tell me why? 9 JUROR NO. 133: Well, I'm not being paid for six 10 to eight weeks, and two months without pay would just be 11 devastating for me. 12 JUDGE POTTER: And what -- you are a driver 13 for -- is that an over-the-road or local? 14 JUROR NO. 133: It depends. I run on a 24 15 dispatch, 24-hour-out dispatch and I could be sent on an 16 overnight or I could be sent on a return pedal, it just all 17 depends. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And your wife works at 19 UPS? 20 JUROR NO. 133: Uh-huh. 21 JUDGE POTTER: What does she do for them? 22 JUROR NO. 133: She's an IE auditor. 23 JUDGE POTTER: What does that mean? 24 JUROR NO. 133: Like you'll have a feeder, a 25 trailer that's being unloaded and she'll be at the rear of the 88 1 trailer and she'll be auditing the packages coming off the 2 rear of the trailer, making sure everything went on and came 3 off. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And you-all have one 5 child? 6 JUROR NO. 133: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE POTTER: How long have you worked for -- 8 you've worked there seven years? 9 JUROR NO. 133: Uh-huh. 10 JUDGE POTTER: And have you checked with them to 11 make sure they have no supplement to your pay when you're on 12 jury duty? 13 JUROR NO. 133: Yeah. They're going to work 14 with me, like working in the city during the days that I could 15 be off and, like, they'll pay me something. I don't know 16 exactly what it is, but they'll pay something for the two 17 weeks. But just to be perfectly honest with you, they weren't 18 real happy about that because I served jury duty in -- I 19 believe it was late '92, I don't believe it was '93, it was 20 like the winter months of '92, so it was at the end of the 21 year. So I've actually just did this not too long ago. 22 JUDGE POTTER: I don't want to -- you may be 23 offended by this question, but I think I need to ask it. What 24 did you earn gross last year? 25 JUROR NO. 133: Forty-two. 89 1 JUDGE POTTER: What did your wife earn? 2 JUROR NO. 133: She was off half the year last 3 year. 4 JUDGE POTTER: What does she hope to make this 5 year? 6 JUROR NO. 133: Ten. Now, she's just part time. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody else have any 8 questions of Mr. Higgs on this topic? 9 MR. STOPHER: No, sir. 10 MR. FREEMAN: No, sir. 11 JUROR NO. 133: One other thing I'd like to add. 12 I don't know if this will have any indifference to anybody, 13 but I'm a firearms expert and I've had occasion to use certain 14 weapons that were used that day, and I also stand very strong 15 against any kind of gun control whatsoever. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. You're an NRA? 17 JUROR NO. 133: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Higgs, I'm going to 19 remind you of my admonition about talking to other people 20 about this case. I'm going to ask you to go with my sheriff 21 and she'll ask you to wait, and then I'm going to bring you 22 all back in together before I send you home. Okay? 23 JUROR NO. 133: Thank you very much. 24 (JUROR NO. 133 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 25 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody have any plan about 90 1 what they're going to do with Mr. Higgs? 2 MR. STOPHER: I think Mr. Higgs ought to be 3 excused, Judge. It sounds like he has two interests in this 4 case; one is his own financial interest and it sounds like 5 that's pretty severe, and the second is what he just mentioned 6 about the firearms. 7 JUDGE POTTER: I have not analyzed this to know 8 which way that opinion cuts. 9 MR. STOPHER: I don't know that you can. All 10 I'm saying is it's an issue in the case that he's already got 11 a strong opinion on. 12 JUDGE POTTER: It's over to you, Mr. Smith. And 13 I will tell you that I don't think I would excuse him for 14 hardship at this point unless you... 15 MR. SMITH: I frankly, Your Honor, don't think 16 he can qualify as a hardship exemption. 17 JUDGE POTTER: That's what I said. If you want 18 to excuse him, Mr. Stopher is agreeable. If you don't... 19 MR. SMITH: Let's keep him. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Although it's a greater loss, 21 quite frankly, I'm more inclined to excuse people that are 22 minimum wage. Now, I show a Robert Hollifield, and do you-all 23 know where the second row quit? 24 MR. STOPHER: That was it, Judge. He was the 25 last one in the second row. Hollifield's in the third row. 91 1 MR. FREEMAN: He was the last seat on the second 2 row. 3 JUDGE POTTER: It was supposed to end there, but 4 I thought we got them jumbled somehow. 5 Madame Sheriff, have you got your list? Would 6 you take roll to make sure you've got everybody from the first 7 two rows, which should be 20 people, and bring them back in 8 and seat them. 9 Mr. Stopher and Mr. Smith, I'm going to have 10 these people come back at 9:00 tomorrow morning because, 11 hopefully, we can get through another 50 today. 12 MR. SMITH: (Nods head affirmatively). 13 MR. STOPHER: Okay. 14 (THE FIRST TWO ROWS OF PROSPECTIVE JURORS 15 ENTER THE COURTROOM) 16 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going 17 to excuse the following jurors: Mr. Bleuel, No. 122. Sir, 18 would you call that telephone number that's on your jury 19 badge? And I don't know if you-all know this, but there's a 20 recording and they'll say Jurors No. 1 through whatever, come 21 in tomorrow. Call that number and they'll tell you when to 22 come in. 23 JUROR NO. 122: Should I go back to the jury 24 pool now? 25 JUDGE POTTER: They won't need you today. 92 1 Ms. Betty Chadwell, No. 10. Thank you very 2 much, ma'am. You heard what I said to Mr. Bleuel. 3 Mr. William Ducoff. Mr. Ducoff, I'm going to 4 excuse you, sir. Would you call that telephone number and 5 find out if they want you to come in tomorrow? Thank you very 6 much, sir. You're excused. 7 Mr. Darwin Duff, No. 162. Mr. Duff, I'm going 8 to excuse you. Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate your 9 coming, but be sure and call that number. You may have 10 another trial tomorrow. 11 Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, the rest of you I'm 12 going to take a recess, as far as you're concerned, until 9:00 13 tomorrow morning. I'm going to pass out this questionnaire. 14 And what I'm going to ask you to do is go with my sheriff. 15 She'll take you over to the jury pool room. You-all can sit 16 and fill it out there, and if you have a question or anything, 17 there will be somebody there to help you if you need any 18 assistance in filling out the questionnaire. And then after 19 you do that, I'm going to recess until 9:00 tomorrow morning. 20 MR. FREEMAN: Your Honor, may I approach? 21 (THE FOLLOWING IS A BENCH DISCUSSION) 22 MR. FREEMAN: Do they have to completely fill 23 out, put not applicable so we won't -- know not to overlook 24 it. 25 JUDGE POTTER: For purposes do we want them to 93 1 come back -- do we feel comfortable with them being here in 2 the morning or do we want them to go back over here and have 3 them brought over? 4 MR. SMITH: I think have them brought over. We 5 might have the other panel in here. 6 (BENCH DISCUSSION ENDED) 7 JUDGE POTTER: And I'm going to ask you one 8 other thing about the questionnaires. If you come to a 9 question and it doesn't apply to you, would you just put N, 10 not applicable, or something like that rather than just leave 11 it blank, and that way people won't -- they'll know you 12 thought about it and answered it and it doesn't apply to you, 13 rather than speculate that maybe you overlooked it. And what 14 I'm going to do is ask you to be in the jury pool room at 9:00 15 waiting for my sheriff to collect you up and bring you over 16 here. I'm going to give you the same admonition I gave you 17 before. Do not permit anybody to speak with you or 18 communicate with you in connection with this trial, and any 19 attempt to do so should be reported to me. That includes 20 family, friends, acquaintances, as well as members of the news 21 media. And that's not only trying to talk to you, that's 22 trying to write something in the newspaper or say something on 23 the television. Do not discuss the case among yourself and do 24 not form any opinions until it's finally submitted to you. 25 For you-all, we will stand in recess till 9:00 tomorrow; 94 1 for the rest of you, we'll stand in recess till 2:00. 2 (LUNCH RECESS) 3 JUDGE POTTER: Let me ask you this. Can we -- 4 John Mullane, whose wife's nephew works for Eli Lilly in 5 Indianapolis. 6 MR. STOPHER: What's his name, Judge? 7 MR. STOPHER: Oh, yeah. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Can we do with him kind of what 9 we did with Mr. Bleuel or whatever his name was, just realize 10 that? 11 MR. STOPHER: I think so. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there any objection to 13 excusing Mr. Mullane? 14 MR. SMITH: No objection. I didn't have him on 15 my list somehow. 16 MS. ZETTLER: The one that said he had a nephew 17 that worked at Lilly? 18 JUDGE POTTER: Yeah. He's been excused by -- 19 MS. ZETTLER: He's been excused. 20 (OFF THE RECORD) 21 MR. SMITH: We've excused four, Your Honor? 22 JUDGE POTTER: Yeah. 23 MR. SMITH: Now Mr. Mullane will be five. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Marsha, do you want to call in 25 Robert Hollifield, No. 224. 95 1 (JUROR NO. 224 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 2 JUDGE POTTER: Please have a seat. You're Mr. 3 Hollifield, No. 224? 4 JUROR NO. 224: Yes. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Sir, I'll remind you you're still 6 under oath. I didn't -- can't read my notes very well, but 7 you know the Stein's sister, is that... 8 JUROR NO. 224: Yes, sir. 9 JUDGE POTTER: And she's an office manager in a 10 professional group? 11 JUROR NO. 224: Yes. It's Sales and Marketing 12 Executives of Louisville. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And you're on the board of 14 directors? 15 JUROR NO. 224: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE POTTER: I guess -- I think you obviously 17 see where the questions are leading, Mr. Hollifield. 18 JUROR NO. 224: Right. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Do you ever see her socially? 20 JUROR NO. 224: No. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Do you see her at functions where 22 it's business but you're there in kind of a social atmosphere? 23 JUROR NO. 224: Yes. The hours before the 24 meeting, yes. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Does she actually attend your 96 1 board meetings or take notes or anything like that? 2 JUROR NO. 224: She attends some, and some she 3 does not. The last one she was not present. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Has she ever talked to you 5 about her relatives being hurt at Standard Gravure or anything 6 like that? 7 JUROR NO. 224: No, sir. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. If you had to decide 9 against the Steins, would you maybe feel a little embarrassed? 10 JUROR NO. 224: Excuse me. I didn't hear all 11 that. 12 JUDGE POTTER: If in this case in the end you 13 felt you had to decide against the Steins, do you feel like 14 you might be a little embarrassed the next time you saw the 15 office manager or anything like that? 16 JUROR NO. 224: No, sir. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Do you think that 18 relationship would carry over to today in the sense that you 19 come in with a warm, fuzzy feeling or trusting feeling about 20 one side that you don't have for the other because you know a 21 relative of one side? 22 JUROR NO. 224: No, sir. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think that relationship 24 would hamper you in any way in this case? 25 JUROR NO. 224: No, sir; I don't. 97 1 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Can anybody think of 2 any other questions of Mr. Hollifield on this topic? 3 MR. STOPHER: Judge, does he know any other 4 members of the family other than John Stein? 5 JUDGE POTTER: Do you know any other members of 6 the family other than -- okay. You know a sister; right? 7 JUROR NO. 224: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Do you know any other members of 9 the Stein family? 10 JUROR NO. 224: Emma's dad, who I have met. He 11 joined the organization, but I do not know him other than I 12 met him one time to shake his hand. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I'm going to remind you of 14 my admonition about talking to other people and talking to 15 other jurors. If you'll go back, we're going to wait a few 16 minutes and I'm going to call you all in together. 17 JUROR NO. 224: Okay. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, Mr. 19 Hollifield. 20 (JUROR NO. 224 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 21 JUDGE POTTER: I've got Daphne Jones. Is there 22 any reason to call her in? 23 MR. SMITH: It says, "Church member used to 24 work" -- 25 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Wacker. Did he work at 98 1 Standard Gravure; is that what that means? 2 MR. SMITH: A church member, Roy Wacker, used to 3 work at Standard Gravure and that was a friend of Daphne 4 Jones. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Is there any reason to call her 6 in? 7 MR. STOPHER: I don't know. At this time I 8 think maybe it's scratch. That doesn't foreclose, maybe, I 9 hope an opportunity later on. 10 JUDGE POTTER: No. No. Perry Martin, No. 181. 11 (JUROR NO. 181 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 12 JUDGE POTTER: Hi. 13 JUROR NO. 181: Hello. 14 JUDGE POTTER: You're Mr. Perry Martin? 15 JUROR NO. 181: Right. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Sir, you indicated that it 17 could -- would be very difficult for you to sit and give this 18 case your attention for the next six weeks. Would you like to 19 tell me why? 20 JUROR NO. 181: Financially, work only pays me 21 two weeks. 22 JUDGE POTTER: What do you do for Pepsi-Cola? 23 JUROR NO. 181: Forklift operator. 24 JUDGE POTTER: How do you know they only pay for 25 two weeks? 99 1 JUROR NO. 181: I'm not sure, actually. I don't 2 know. If I'm on a jury, maybe they would extend that pay, but 3 normally they're not that giving. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I'll tell you what, Mr. 5 Martin. After I excuse you this afternoon, will you go and 6 call your -- are you a union member? 7 JUROR NO. 181: Uh-huh. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Call your union representative -- 9 JUROR NO. 181: Uh-huh. 10 JUDGE POTTER: -- and find out what the 11 situation is and we'll come back and talk about it again 12 tomorrow. Okay? 13 JUROR NO. 181: That will be fine. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Sir, I want to remind you that 15 the admonition about talking with other people about the case 16 and letting other people talk to you about the case. If you 17 will go back to the room, wait a few minutes, I'm going to 18 call you all out together and send you home, okay, for the 19 day? 20 JUROR NO. 181: Okay. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. 22 JUROR NO. 181: Thank you. 23 (JUROR NO. 181 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 24 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Let me ask you, on Belinda 25 Passanisi -- 100 1 MR. STOPHER: Passanisi, Judge. Her 2 father-in-law worked at Standard Gravure and he had contact 3 with Joseph Wesbecker. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Is this one that maybe we can all 5 say that she's going to be close enough or do we need to bring 6 her in? 7 MR. STOPHER: I would agree that she should be 8 excused. 9 MR. SMITH: She said she had special knowledge 10 of the circumstances. I think that would be probably better 11 for all of us. 12 JUDGE POTTER: So by agreement so I don't have 13 to pronounce her name. 14 Okay. Paul Peck, No. 126. 15 (JUROR NO. 126 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 16 JUDGE POTTER: How are you? You're Mr. Paul 17 Peck, No. 126? 18 JUROR NO. 126: Yes, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE POTTER: I want to remind you, sir, that 20 you're still under oath. You indicated that you know the 21 Fentresses because your daughter was in soccer league or 22 church league or something? 23 JUROR NO. 126: They were cheerleaders in high 24 school. 25 JUDGE POTTER: How long ago was that? 101 1 JUROR NO. 126: I think about six years ago, I 2 think, six or seven years. Eleven years ago, I think. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Was there anything about that 4 other than you just knew them as parents of -- 5 JUROR NO. 126: That's basically it. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about that 7 relationship that would carry over to today, in other words, 8 that you might feel embarrassed with your daughters deciding 9 against one of her friends' parent if you had to do that, or 10 just something you have to answer yourself, sir? 11 JUROR NO. 126: I don't think so. 12 JUDGE POTTER: I crossed out a note here that 13 said you went to school with -- 14 JUROR NO. 126: The Husband. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Husband? 16 JUROR NO. 126: Yeah. 17 JUDGE POTTER: How long ago was that? 18 JUROR NO. 126: It was in junior high school. 19 JUDGE POTTER: He just was another classmate? 20 JUROR NO. 126: Yes. 21 JUDGE POTTER: You-all weren't on, like, 22 co-captains of the football team or fought over the same girl 23 or anything like that? 24 JUROR NO. 126: No. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think there's anything 102 1 about that relationship that might carry over into today? 2 JUROR NO. 126: No, sir. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Peck. 4 Remind you of my admonition. Don't communicate about the 5 case, and if you'll go back to the jury room, we'll call you 6 all in together. Thank you, sir. 7 JUROR NO. 126: Thank you. 8 (JUROR NO. 126 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 9 JUDGE POTTER: Kayla Pierce, No. 201. My notes 10 indicate that she works in a private physician's office and 11 she doesn't want to stay eight weeks. And I think she said 12 something to indicate she had a problem. 13 MR. SMITH: Yeah. I have her checked as being 14 possible prejudice or that she indicated possible prejudice. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Is this one we can agree on 16 without bringing her in? 17 MR. STOPHER: I think the last one ought to 18 be -- I mean, he knows two of the families here. I would move 19 that the last one be excused. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Let's wait till... 21 (JUROR NO. 201 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 22 JUDGE POTTER: Hi. You're Ms. Kayla Pierce, No. 23 207? 24 JUROR NO. 201: 201. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. The Xerox didn't do a good 103 1 job. You indicated that you worked in a physician's office 2 and dispensed medication. 3 JUROR NO. 201: Uh-huh. Yes. 4 JUDGE POTTER: And you indicated that the 5 process involved Prozac, you might have some -- I'm just 6 reading my notes. I may have it wrong. You want to tell me 7 what you meant by that? 8 JUROR NO. 201: The doctor that I work for uses 9 Prozac regularly on patients and we've had good use with it, 10 and I feel like my opinion would be biased. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. In other words, if people 12 came in and testified that maybe it wasn't as good as your 13 doctor had had, you would be more attempted to rely on your 14 own experience? 15 JUROR NO. 201: Experience, yes. 16 JUDGE POTTER: You also said it would be 17 difficult for you to stay eight weeks. Why is that? 18 JUROR NO. 201: Because I'm an hourly paid 19 employee, and eight weeks would put me in the poorhouse. 20 JUDGE POTTER: What do you earn an hour? 21 JUROR NO. 201: Ten-fifty. 22 JUDGE POTTER: So that's like 22,000, 21,000 a 23 year, something like that? 24 JUROR NO. 201: (Nods head affirmatively). 25 JUDGE POTTER: Are you just covered -- are you 104 1 covered for any portion of that time? 2 JUROR NO. 201: No. I'm doing this with my 3 vacation time and personal time on my two weeks. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody have any additional 5 questions of Ms. Pierce on either of these topics? 6 I want to remind you again of my admonition 7 about talking about the case. If you'll go back to the jury 8 room there, I'll bring you all in together in just a few 9 minutes. 10 JUROR NO. 201: Thank you. 11 (JUROR NO. 201 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 12 MR. SMITH: We move to excuse Ms. Pierce for 13 cause. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, is there -- 15 MR. STOPHER: I think what's sauce for the goose 16 is sauce for the gander. If she's going to be excused, I 17 think Mr. Peck ought to be excused. I think he knows two of 18 the families. We'll -- 19 JUDGE POTTER: We'll take up Mr. Peck. We can't 20 trade, in other words, unless you-all do it without me being 21 involved. There is a motion to strike Ms. Pierce. Is there 22 anything that you want to say before I rule on it? 23 MR. STOPHER: No, Judge. I think the facts are 24 before the Court. I don't think she has made up her mind on 25 matters any more than some others have. 105 1 JUDGE POTTER: Well, I think the reason that she 2 came forward and that she herself said that she had a problem, 3 and because her doctor prescribed it and had good results, I 4 think that puts her feelings in a much different category from 5 the average citizen's that's going to know that eight million 6 people are taking it. That's just a vague statistic. She's 7 had people come back, and so I'm going to grant the motion to 8 excuse her. 9 Mr. Stopher has suggested that we revisit Mr. 10 Peck. 11 MR. STOPHER: Right. I want to make a motion to 12 excuse him on the ground that you just stated, Your Honor. He 13 knows more than the average citizen because he went to school 14 with one of the decedents who was shot by Mr. Wesbecker and 15 killed. He knows the family and particularly the daughters of 16 the decedent Mr. Fentress. And as much as he says that he 17 doesn't think that's goes to influence him, he definitely 18 knows more about these families than the average citizen. 19 JUDGE POTTER: That's true. What do you say, 20 Mr. Smith? 21 MR. SMITH: Well, he said he would be able -- 22 first of all, his relationship with them goes several years 23 back and he hasn't seen them, I don't think, even since this 24 incident occurred, plus he indicated that he could be fair and 25 that this would not influence his judgment here. 106 1 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to deny the motion to 2 strike Mr. Peck for cause. You know, his age, he's what, 50 3 something? The fact that he went to school with Mr. Husband 4 is a long time ago and the fact that his daughter and the 5 Fentress daughter played on the same team or on the 6 cheerleading squad, or whatever it was, I don't think is close 7 enough to excuse him for cause. 8 Donna Russell, No. 190 -- I'm sorry. I was 9 looking the wrong place. Rabenecker, No. 109. I mean, is 10 this -- 11 MR. SMITH: Her brother was at the building and 12 held one of the victims while they were waiting on emergency 13 medical services. I think it would depend on how much he told 14 her about it and how much influence it had. 15 (JUROR NO. 109 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 16 JUDGE POTTER: Ma'am, would you step down here, 17 please. Have a seat. I want to remind you, ma'am, that 18 you're still under oath. You indicated that your brother was 19 in the building in 1989 when this happened? 20 JUROR NO. 109: Yes. Uh-huh. 21 JUDGE POTTER: He was there because he worked at 22 Standard Gravure? 23 JUROR NO. 109: He works for them. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Does he still work for them? 25 JUROR NO. 109: No. 107 1 JUDGE POTTER: When did he retire? 2 JUROR NO. 109: He retired when they closed. 3 JUDGE POTTER: I mean, obviously, do you see 4 your brother very often? 5 JUROR NO. 109: No. Not in the last few years. 6 Just occasionally. We meet in the nursing home where my 7 mother is. 8 JUDGE POTTER: When you're visiting your mom? 9 JUROR NO. 109: Uh-huh. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Does he live here in Louisville? 11 JUROR NO. 109: Uh-huh. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Have you had very many 13 conversations with him about this? 14 JUROR NO. 109: No. Just whenever it was 15 discussed when it first happened, but not recently. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I guess what I need to ask 17 you and... Do you -- because of that relationship, your 18 brother working there, was there on the day of the shooting, 19 and did he actually have contact with some of the -- 20 JUROR NO. 109: Yes, he did. Some of them were 21 his friends. I know -- that's as much as I know about it. 22 JUDGE POTTER: And some of these were his 23 friends that were either shot or killed? What you need to do 24 is think in your own inner self and decide if, you know, you 25 come to this with maybe a feeling that one side -- a warm 108 1 feeling towards one side that you don't have toward the other. 2 JUROR NO. 109: I think but for the grace of God 3 I might be in the same situation as some of the other people. 4 JUDGE POTTER: So I guess what you're telling me 5 is that you come in this thinking that, but for the grace of 6 God, your brother would be either up there or you'd be up 7 there because he was dead? 8 JUROR NO. 109: Not necessarily that way. I 9 could probably make a pretty good judgment, but that's the way 10 I feel, basically. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody else have any 12 questions? And, I'm sorry, I'm having any trouble with your 13 last name. 14 JUROR NO. 109: Rabenecker. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Any questions of Ms. Rabenecker 16 that they want me to pursue? 17 MR. STOPHER: Nothing further, Your Honor. 18 MR. SMITH: (Shakes head negatively). 19 JUDGE POTTER: You're still under my admonition 20 not to talk about the case. I'm going to ask you to go back 21 to the room and wait, and I'll call you all back out in a 22 minute. Okay. Thank you very much. 23 MS. RABENECKER: Thank you. 24 (JUROR NO. 109 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 25 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, do you have any -- 109 1 MR. STOPHER: We make a motion, Judge. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, is there anything you 3 want to say before I rule on it? 4 MR. SMITH: No, Your Honor. 5 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to grant the motion to 6 excuse her. 7 Donna Russell, No. 190. 8 MR. SMITH: This is the lady that really wants 9 to tell the Judge something. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Uh-huh. 11 (JUROR NO. 190 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 12 JUDGE POTTER: Hi. You're Ms. Russell? 13 JUROR NO. 190: Yes. 14 JUDGE POTTER: I want to remind you, ma'am, 15 you're still under oath. 16 JUROR NO. 190: Okay. 17 JUDGE POTTER: You indicated that it would be 18 very hard for you to sit here for the next six to eight weeks. 19 Could you tell me why that would be, I mean, especially hard? 20 JUROR NO. 190: Well, first of all, I'm going 21 out of town the end of the week but -- the end of October. 22 JUDGE POTTER: What for? 23 JUROR NO. 190: I have reservations up in Ohio. 24 We're going to a pro football game. 25 JUDGE POTTER: That's, like, you and your 110 1 husband? 2 JUROR NO. 190: Right. 3 JUDGE POTTER: And that's a weekend? 4 JUROR NO. 190: Right. Back on Monday evening. 5 But that could be cut short, if necessary. But there was 6 something else I wanted to talk to you about. 7 JUDGE POTTER: All right. You said you were an 8 LPN, and that information you gained in that category might be 9 a problem for you. You want to tell me about that? 10 JUROR NO. 190: Well, I guess because I've 11 already sort of formed my opinion on how I feel. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And what is that? 13 JUROR NO. 190: I don't feel that Prozac was 14 what caused him to do what he did. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And why did you form that 16 opinion? 17 JUROR NO. 190: I don't know how true this is, 18 but somebody I know had access to his chart and at the time 19 that it happened had told me some things off of the chart 20 about his history. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And obviously they told 22 you this four years ago or whatever? 23 JUROR NO. 190: At the time. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Yeah. And so you've had this 25 opinion, maybe not a scientific opinion, but a belief for four 111 1 years? 2 JUROR NO. 190: Right. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Does anybody else have any 4 questions of Ms. Russell or want me to ask any more questions 5 on this topic? 6 MR. STOPHER: No. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. I 8 remind you of my admonition about talking about the case. If 9 you'll go back to the waiting room, I'm going to call you all 10 out together. Okay. Thanks. 11 (JUROR NO. 190 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 12 MR. SMITH: Move to strike Ms. Russell for 13 cause. 14 JUDGE POTTER: I'll grant the motion. And let 15 me say, it's not because she has that opinion. I think other 16 people could say they have that opinion, but if it was lightly 17 formed or not scientifically formed, just the best they could 18 do today. This lady had a real basis and it had been there 19 for a long time. I'm not saying it's a correct basis, but 20 it's a basis that they believed, so she's excused. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Jeffrey Russell, No. 17. 22 (JUROR NO. 17 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 23 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. You're Mr. Jeffrey 24 Russell, No. 17? 25 JUROR NO. 17: Yes, sir. 112 1 JUDGE POTTER: Have a seat, sir. I remind you 2 you're still under oath. You indicated it would be a hardship 3 on you to sit on this case. Would you like to tell me why? 4 JUROR NO. 17: Financially. I go to school and 5 work full time. And two weeks wouldn't have been bad, but I 6 don't know if I could handle six. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Where do you go to school? 8 JUROR NO. 17: National Education Center. 9 JUDGE POTTER: And what are you training -- 10 JUROR NO. 17: Medical assistant. 11 JUDGE POTTER: And where do you work? 12 JUROR NO. 17: Lyndon Lane Nursing Center. 13 JUDGE POTTER: And are you an hourly employee 14 there? 15 JUROR NO. 17: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE POTTER: How much do you make an hour? 17 JUROR NO. 17: Five-fifty. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Do they have anything that 19 will -- I know the answer to this, but I'm still going to ask 20 it. Do they have anything where they pay when you don't -- 21 JUROR NO. 17: Not that I know of. 22 JUDGE POTTER: What days of the week or time do 23 you go to school? 24 JUROR NO. 17: Monday through Thursday from five 25 P.M. until eleven. 113 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. I'll 2 remind you about not talking to other people, my admonition 3 about not talking to other people. If you'll wait back in the 4 the jury room, I'm going to call you all out in a few minutes. 5 (JUROR NO. 17 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 6 JUDGE POTTER: What do you-all... 7 MR. SMITH: I don't have any objection to 8 excusing him, Your Honor. 9 MR. STOPHER: That's fine. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. By agreement, he's 11 excused. The real problem with him would be that he'd go to 12 school at night and he'd be asleep all day. 13 MR. STOPHER: Yeah. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Julie Schmalz, No. 115. 15 (JUROR NO. 115 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 16 JUDGE POTTER: You're Ms. Julie Schmalz? 17 JUROR NO. 115: Yes. 18 JUDGE POTTER: How are you, ma'am? 19 JUROR NO. 115: Fine. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Would you have a seat here. I'll 21 remind you you're still under oath. I can't read my own 22 handwriting. You know somebody's daughter? 23 JUROR NO. 115: Yes. Mrs. White. 24 JUDGE POTTER: And how do you know her daughter? 25 JUROR NO. 115: I went to grade school with them 114 1 and I'm -- her mother's playing adult volleyball up at St. 2 Helen's, so I know her from there. 3 JUDGE POTTER: So you know Ms. White? 4 JUROR NO. 115: And her daughters. 5 JUDGE POTTER: And her daughters. Okay. I've 6 got written down here "possible problem" and that's a word you 7 used and I -- you didn't use that word? Maybe I wrote down 8 the wrong thing. 9 JUROR NO. 115: I said yes because I knew the 10 family, I knew her and the girls. 11 JUDGE POTTER: How much contact do you have with 12 them? 13 JUROR NO. 115: Well, not much now, just mainly 14 her mother. I see her at the volleyball games, but we don't 15 really converse. We just say maybe hi. 16 JUDGE POTTER: And only you can really answer 17 this question. Some people you see at a volleyball game, 18 those kind of relationships you don't have much feeling one 19 way or the other; other people they've struck you and you feel 20 a bond towards them. Do you feel because of this relationship 21 you might come into this case with kind of a warm, wanting-to- 22 go-one-way feeling because of them that you don't have for the 23 other side? 24 JUROR NO. 115: Yes. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Does anybody else have any 115 1 questions of Ms. Schmalz? 2 MR. SMITH: (Shakes head negatively). 3 MR. STOPHER: No, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Schmalz, I'm going to remind 5 you of my admonition about talking about the case. If you'll 6 go back to the jury room, I'll call you all out in a second. 7 (JUROR NO. 115 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 8 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, do you have a 9 motion? 10 MR. STOPHER: Yes, Your Honor. We make a 11 motion. 12 JUDGE POTTER: It's granted. She's excused. 13 Okay. How about Mr. Snyder? Is he one that we 14 can do by agreement? His son worked security at Standard 15 Gravure for the last four or five years. 16 MR. STOPHER: (Nods head affirmatively). 17 MR. SMITH: I have no objection, Your Honor. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. So Mr. Charles Snyder is 19 excused for cause by agreement. 20 Alnora Stewart, No. 104. 21 (JUROR NO. 104 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 22 JUDGE POTTER: Hi, Ms. Stewart. How are you? 23 JUROR NO. 104: Just fine. 24 JUDGE POTTER: I want to remind you that you're 25 still under oath, ma'am. Did the table leg get you? You 116 1 indicated that it would be extremely difficult for you to sit 2 and give your time to this case. Why is that? 3 JUROR NO. 104: You said about six, eight weeks? 4 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, ma'am. 5 JUROR NO. 104: Okay. I was supposed to have 6 surgery on my right eye this week but, see, I couldn't do this 7 because I was supposed to be here. And then in November, 8 which I have it on here in my purse now, that I am to have -- 9 well, I have real bad ulcers and I have to go get them 10 checked, I mean, where they do X-rays and all that stuff. And 11 that appointment was made back in -- I guess June, so it's in 12 November. So that's that reason. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. When is your eye surgery? 14 JUROR NO. 104: Well, I put it off. It was 15 supposed to have been tomorrow but, see, I put it off because 16 I didn't know it in time to write in and tell you. So they 17 said, well, I could be released and they would set it up 18 again, but as long as it wasn't October. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 20 JUROR NO. 104: Doctor Bennett out on Churchman 21 Avenue. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. What is your eye problem? 23 JUROR NO. 104: Well, this one I had done two 24 years ago, I wasn't seeing out of, so they put a tube in and a 25 lens. Well, I don't have very much sight over here, this was 117 1 the good eye, so it's gone. So now they're going to try 2 first -- what's that, laser on it first. If that doesn't 3 work, then you have to go under the knife. That's what I did 4 with this one. I had laser and the knife. 5 JUDGE POTTER: And I take it that you feel that 6 if you put these two things off longer and longer you might 7 not have as good a chance, is that what you -- 8 JUROR NO. 104: Right. And I do -- I have to 9 take something every day for ulcers, every day, so I don't 10 want to put that off too long. Because the onliest thing that 11 I do now when I go is they take, you know, give me an X-ray 12 and see how well they're doing. I take Zantac, Tagamet, 13 Pepsin, Maalox, you name it, by the case. 14 JUDGE POTTER: You're going to turn into 15 limestone. Thank you very much, ma'am. I'm going to remind 16 you of my admonition about talking about this case and ask you 17 to go back to the jury room and I'll call you all out in a 18 minute. Okay? 19 JUROR NO. 104: Okay. Thank you. 20 (JUROR NO. 104 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 21 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody have any -- 22 MR. SMITH: She has some vision problems so... 23 MR. STOPHER: No. 24 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to excuse her for 25 cause. 118 1 Joseph Sweet, No. 148. 2 (JUROR NO. 148 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 3 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. You're Mr. Sweet, No. 148? 4 JUROR NO. 148: Yes. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Sir, I'll remind you you're still 6 under oath. You indicated that you felt it would be a 7 hardship for you to sit on this jury. You want to tell me 8 why? 9 JUROR NO. 148: There's no way that I can miss 10 that much work for the job that I've got. 11 JUDGE POTTER: What do you do for Howell's? 12 JUROR NO. 148: Well, actually I'm assistant 13 manager and my work goes in from day to day. 14 JUDGE POTTER: What do you mean your work goes 15 in from day to day? 16 JUROR NO. 148: What I do, I have to do daily, 17 weekly reports, production. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Who's taking your place for these 19 two weeks? 20 JUROR NO. 148: Well, the secretary's doing a 21 lot of it, but I'll be going in after I get out of jury duty 22 to do a lot of my computer work. 23 JUDGE POTTER: And how long do you think that -- 24 is there anyone else that can do it -- what do you do when you 25 go on vacation? 119 1 JUROR NO. 148: I try to get a lot of it caught 2 up before I go and I catch it up when I come back, I take a 3 week at a time. 4 JUDGE POTTER: How long in the evening do you 5 think it will take you with your secretary doing what she can 6 during the day? 7 JUROR NO. 148: It varies. 8 JUDGE POTTER: I mean -- 9 JUROR NO. 148: Because in the freight business 10 you've got different amounts of freight coming in every day. 11 Some days it's slow and some days you're covered up, so I 12 really don't know. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Are we talking about the 14 difference between an hour and two hours or three hours and 15 six hours? What would be a light day? You know, if your 16 secretary does everything she can, you go in at 5:30, how long 17 do you think you'd be in there on a light day? 18 JUROR NO. 148: Probably about seven. 19 JUDGE POTTER: So that's an hour and a half. On 20 a heavy day, what do you think? 21 JUROR NO. 148: Probably about nine. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. You knew Ms. Bowman in 23 school? 24 JUROR NO. 148: Well, I knew her grandmother and 25 her grandfather. 120 1 JUDGE POTTER: How did you know them? 2 JUROR NO. 148: They were school bus drivers. 3 JUDGE POTTER: You told me that. 4 JUROR NO. 148: And I knew of her but I never 5 did really know her personally, you know. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Did you behave on the 7 school bus? 8 JUROR NO. 148: Oh, yeah. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. What I'm trying to ask, is 10 there anything about that that you think would carry over to 11 today that -- I take it her grandmother and grandfather are no 12 longer alive, or you don't know? 13 JUROR NO. 148: I don't know, since I left the 14 area. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about those 16 relationships that would carry over to today in the sense that 17 you feel -- 18 JUROR NO. 148: Well, I felt sorrow for her 19 after her injury, knowing they had just had a baby and she 20 just had come back to work. I mean, I felt bad for her. 21 JUDGE POTTER: But other than that? 22 JUROR NO. 148: (Shakes head negatively). 23 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. How many people work in 24 the motor terminal here? 25 JUROR NO. 148: Twenty-three. 121 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And is it one of several 2 or is it its own? I'm not familiar with Howell's. 3 JUROR NO. 148: There's five different 4 terminals. This terminal here is in Indiana and the rest of 5 them is in the Virginias. 6 JUDGE POTTER: And is there a manager here or is 7 the manager in Virginia? 8 JUROR NO. 148: The manager's here. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Is there another assistant 10 manager? 11 JUROR NO. 148: No. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I'm going to remind you of 13 my admonition about not letting anybody talk to you about this 14 case or communicate with anybody about the case and ask you to 15 go back to the jury room, and I'm going to call you all out 16 together. All right. Thank you. 17 JUROR NO. 148: Thank you. 18 (JUROR NO. 148 LEAVES THE COURTROOMO) 19 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody have any -- 20 MR. STOPHER: We make the motion, Judge. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, what do you say about 22 Mr. Sweet either for cause or for hardship? 23 MR. SMITH: I don't think he's established 24 hardship, but I think the fact that he said he felt sorry for 25 Angela, probably since we got a big pot we might as well 122 1 excuse him. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Stopher, you owe Mr. 3 Smith a close one. 4 Trumbo, Cherry Trumbo, No. 21. 5 (JUROR NO. 21 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 6 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Trumbo, would you have a 7 seat, please, ma'am. I want to remind you that you're still 8 under oath. You indicated that it would be difficult for you 9 to -- a hardship on you to stay the six or eight weeks. You 10 want to tell me about that? 11 JUROR NO. 21: I thought you was calling me to 12 ask me about why it was that I didn't want to be on the jury 13 for the case. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Well, maybe that's what I need to 15 ask you. Why is that? 16 JUROR NO. 21: Because one thing was that I had 17 a suit in for the IUD company and it's still there, and I feel 18 like that companies that do damage to people's lives, like my 19 life has been destroyed, and that's why I'm not with my 20 husband, and all the things that I had to go through. And I 21 think they're responsible, when they do damage to a person's 22 body and their life, then they should pay for it. 23 And, also, I have a friend that her son was on 24 the drug Ritalin, and he's now brain dead because of Ritalin, 25 and she's going through a process for that. And those two 123 1 things I know would make me prejudiced towards the case 2 because I feel like that in marketing and in researching, 3 companies should realize the effect, emotional stress and 4 effects that a family's going to go through because of their 5 merchandising and not explaining the consequences. Because if 6 I had have known the consequences of what it would have did to 7 my body, then I would have made the decision not to take that 8 option. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Who is the person -- the company 10 that's involved in your IUD suit? 11 JUROR NO. 21: Oh, that's pitiful. I forget 12 because they just -- they sent us a letter and it's just, 13 like, pending. We've all been pending for years. I forgot 14 which company. It's not here in Louisville, but it's with the 15 Lippe's Loop. 16 MR. STOPHER: The Lippe's Loop is Johnson & 17 Johnson. Does that sound right? 18 JUROR NO. 21: I forgot. I have the letter at 19 home. 20 MR. STOPHER: Also known as Ortho. 21 JUROR NO. 21: That... 22 JUDGE POTTER: Let me ask you this: You 23 understand that this lawsuit is different from the IUD. 24 JUROR NO. 21: (Nods head affirmatively). 25 JUDGE POTTER: And you understand this drug is 124 1 not Ritalin. 2 JUROR NO. 21: Right. 3 JUDGE POTTER: But if I get what you're telling 4 me, is that because of your own personal experiences and that, 5 you would have a hard time damping down the emotions that you 6 feel just against somebody that makes a medical product; is 7 that what I'm hearing you say? 8 JUROR NO. 21: Yes. A product that, you know, 9 in the end result, you know, puts damage. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. But -- and you would feel 11 that way even if the company maybe didn't do anything wrong; 12 it's just no product is 100-percent safe, so in every product 13 a few people might be hurt? Do you understand what I'm 14 saying? 15 JUROR NO. 21: But still they're responsible. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Does anybody else have any 17 questions that they want me to ask Ms. Trumbo? 18 MR. STOPHER: No, sir. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Trumbo, I'm going to remind 20 you about not talking about the case with anyone. If you'll 21 wait back in the jury room, I'll call you all out in just a 22 second. 23 (JUROR NO. 21 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 24 MR. SMITH: Mr. Stopher, I'd like to have my 25 favor back now. 125 1 MR. STOPHER: Does this one count as a return of 2 your favor? 3 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher's made a motion to 4 excuse Ms. Trumbo and I'm granting it. 5 David Wagner, No. 18. He works at maintenance 6 at Providian, but that's not why he's in here. He's in here 7 because he said he couldn't go eight weeks. I'll say this, 8 he's a hard-working fellow. He's in the security business and 9 works for The Courier-Journal. 10 (JUROR NO. 18 ENTERS THE COURTROOM) 11 JUDGE POTTER: Hi. You're Mr. David Wagner, 12 No. 18; is that right? 13 JUROR NO. 18: Yes, sir. 14 JUDGE POTTER: How are you? I was looking -- 15 you told me that you worked maintenance at Providian? 16 JUROR NO. 18: Yes. Under Johnsontown Security. 17 JUDGE POTTER: All right. You told me that you 18 would have a hard time working here eight weeks, I mean -- you 19 would be working here, but being here eight weeks? 20 JUROR NO. 18: My boss at Providian asked me to 21 get off. He's not going to pay me. 22 JUDGE POTTER: What is he doing for the two 23 weeks you're here now? 24 JUROR NO. 18: I have no idea. I'm working 25 there when I'm not here. 126 1 JUDGE POTTER: So you work there at night? 2 JUROR NO. 18: No. Actually I work during the 3 daytime, but I went in this morning early, at six. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And, what, do you deliver 5 papers for The Courier? 6 JUROR NO. 18: Yes, sir. 7 JUDGE POTTER: What do you make -- how are you 8 paid at Johnsontown Security? 9 JUROR NO. 18: I get salary. 10 JUDGE POTTER: What is that? 11 JUROR NO. 18: It's about 200 a week, around 12 there. 13 JUDGE POTTER: That's all right. And you work 14 40 hours to get that? 15 JUROR NO. 18: Yes. Plus my paper route. 16 JUDGE POTTER: And when you don't work you don't 17 get paid, you think? 18 JUROR NO. 18: Right. Well, I know I don't. 19 But if I can do -- if I'm not going to be held over, I can 20 still do my paper route. It will work. I can do that -- if I 21 can just do the one job I can live on 200 a week instead of 22 400. 23 JUDGE POTTER: How early -- you mean that's a 24 paper route early in the morning? 25 JUROR NO. 18: Yes, sir. Usually I get up at 127 1 three and I'm done by six. It pays two hundred a week. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And it seems like maybe 3 you've changed a little bit. You think it would be difficult 4 but you feel you could do your paper route, not get paid at 5 Johnsontown Security and be able to stay and do an eight-week 6 trial? 7 JUROR NO. 18: Yes. It was just if I could get 8 no money for eight weeks, it wouldn't be all right. But if I 9 could get some, that would be fine. 10 JUDGE POTTER: I remind you about my admonition 11 about talking to other people about the case, and I'll ask you 12 to go back to the jury room and I'll call you all out in just 13 a minute. Okay? 14 JUROR NO. 18: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. 16 (JUROR NO. 18 LEAVES THE COURTROOM) 17 JUDGE POTTER: My inclination would be to not 18 excuse him for cause. If you want to take pity on him or 19 something, let me know, that's fine. 20 MR. STOPHER: Judge, I'm perfectly agreeable to 21 that. 22 MR. SMITH: I'm sorry. I didn't hear. 23 JUDGE POTTER: I think what he said is he's 24 agreeable to excusing him by agreement. 25 MR. SMITH: That's fine with me. 128 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Whitehouse said he 2 retired from Standard Gravure 18 years ago. I don't see any 3 reason to call him in. If there's anything that comes up, it 4 will come out in further voir dire. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Let's get them all in and what 6 I'll do is send them home until 9:00 tomorrow morning. 7 MR. FREEMAN: Are we going to get their forms 8 back? 9 JUDGE POTTER: Their forms, yes, I have them. 10 (PROSPECTIVE JURORS ENTER THE COURTROOM) 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen of 12 the jury -- let me get everybody seated. So I make sure I get 13 the right people -- I'm going to excuse the right people -- I 14 want to ask you to stand up and count the number of people. 15 Mr. John Mullane. Ms. Belinda Passanisi. Thank 16 you very much, ma'am; would you stand up. Kayla Pierce. Mary 17 Rabenecker. Donna Russell. Jeffrey Russell. Julie Schmalz. 18 Charles Snyder. Alnora Stewart. Joseph Sweet. Cherry Trumbo 19 and David Wagner. Okay. I want to thank you all very much. 20 I'm going to excuse you. If you'll call that number on the 21 jury badge and listen to the tape recording, they'll tell you 22 whether you need to come in for jury service tomorrow. Thank 23 you all very much. You-all are excused. 24 Just as a double-check. Marsha, you count how 25 many people we've got there and we'll count how many people 129 1 we're supposed to have. Eighteen? Okay. Ladies and 2 gentlemen, I'm going to, from your point of view, recess until 3 tomorrow. And, Mr. Stopher, Mr. Smith, in all candor, we'll 4 still have something left over for the next day. 5 MR. STOPHER: I would think so, Judge. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, what I'm 7 going to do is recess till 10:30 in the morning for you. 8 That's 10:30. Be in the jury pool over there at 10:30 9 tomorrow morning. I'm going to give you the same admonition 10 I've given you before. And, again, I emphasize the part about 11 talking to other people applies not only to somebody who might 12 have some connection with the case; it applies equally well to 13 your husband, your wife, whatever. And also do not allow the 14 media to communicate with you by looking at the newspaper on 15 this topic or watching television. Also, do not discuss the 16 case among yourselves or form or express opinions about it 17 until it is finally submitted to you for your determination. 18 With that admonition, I would ask for you-all to stand in 19 recess till 10:30 tomorrow. 20 Okay. Mr. Stopher, Mr. Smith, we'll take a 21 break till -- how about we go through the next 50 people just 22 on my talking to them, get them to fill out the questionnaires 23 and we can do the individuals tomorrow morning, and let's take 24 a break till 3:20. 25 (RECESS) 130 1 JUDGE POTTER: Good afternoon, folks. I'm sorry 2 you had to wait all day or part of the day, but other 3 people -- there's a draw and certain people got ahead of you. 4 It was a totally random drawing. 5 Let me introduce myself. I am Judge John Potter 6 and this is Division One of the Jefferson Circuit Court. My 7 normal courtroom is over in the courthouse over there, but it 8 is not as large as this, and so we've used this multipurpose 9 courtroom for this trial because, as you can tell, there are 10 numerous people involved. 11 At this point, I'm going to ask all of you to 12 raise your right hand and permit my clerk to swear. 13 14 * * * 15 16 Prospective Jury Pool, after first being duly 17 sworn, was questioned as follows: 18 19 * * * 20 21 JUDGE POTTER: Let me go over some questions 22 with you just as an initial thing. These should have been on 23 your jury questionnaire form. Is there anyone here who is not 24 18 years of age or older? I'm not asking about who wishes 25 they were 18; I'm asking is there anybody here who is not 18 131 1 years or older? 2 Are you-all citizens of the United States? You 3 can nod, so I know I've got you. 4 Does anyone here not live in Jefferson County? 5 Everyone here lives in Jefferson County? 6 Does everyone here speak and understand the 7 English language? Is there anybody here that's having 8 difficulty understanding me? 9 Does anyone here have any physical or mental 10 disability that they feel might prevent them from rendering 11 adequate jury service? Does anybody here have a physical 12 problem or mental problem that we need to address? And let me 13 just give you an example of that. Some people maybe are hard 14 of hearing and they serve on a jury perfectly fine, and all I 15 do is make sure they sit in the front row and make sure that 16 they understand if people start dropping their voices that 17 they ask people to talk up. Other people have other kinds of 18 concerns. Is there anybody here that has any physical problem 19 or any other problem that we need to address? 20 Has anyone here been convicted of a felony that 21 has not been pardoned? Is anyone here presently under 22 indictment? 23 Has anyone here served on a jury in the last 12 24 months? And let's not cut it close. Has anyone here been a 25 juror in 1994 or in 1993? 132 1 Okay. Let me talk a little bit about the voir 2 dire process. You all saw the video. I don't know whether 3 you call it a slide show or whatever on the TV this morning. 4 Did everybody see that about the process? All right. Okay. 5 I want to reiterate a few points. It is very important in 6 this stage of the proceeding that you be truthful. You are 7 under oath and it has very serious consequences for you as an 8 individual, as well as the system, if it should develop at 9 some later time that you've been less than completely 10 forthright in answering questions. So to protect yourself, if 11 for no other reason, whenever you're asked a question and you 12 don't know if it applies to you or you're unsure of the 13 question, raise your hand and say, "I don't know if this is 14 what you mean, but..." All right? If you have any doubt at 15 all, speak up. 16 Let me go over the mechanics of the voir dire 17 process with you, kind of the schedule, so you know what lays 18 ahead. I'm going to tell you about the general nature of the 19 case, then I'll introduce the parties to you and ask you some 20 general questions in a group. Then you'll be given a written 21 questionnaire. You'll go back to the jury pool, you'll fill 22 that out and turn it in, and that's what we hope to accomplish 23 this evening. You'll come back tomorrow morning. There will 24 be some individual voir dire, kind of follow up on some things 25 that were brought out individually with you in this general 133 1 voir dire, then the attorneys will have some individual voir 2 dire with you, and then we'll come back and have a general 3 session out in the open like this. 4 I had planned to use a cordless microphone, but 5 everyone in this morning's proceedings spoke up loudly and 6 clearly and that was not necessary. There is a microphone if 7 anybody wants to use it, but just be sure and speak up loudly 8 and clearly. 9 Whenever you answer a question, start out with 10 your last name and your badge number, Smith, 22, my uncle 11 had -- whatever the answer happens to be. As a matter of 12 fact, I probably have to get on the first two or three of you 13 and embarrass you a little bit, and then that will help train 14 the rest of you. If someone should come up to the bench -- 15 and they really won't do it in this proceeding because it's so 16 cumbersome; we're going to do things individually later. But 17 I want to emphasize something for those of you that see 18 somebody say, "Judge, can I talk to you in private," or, "I 19 want to tell you something out of the hearing of the other 20 jurors," or whatever it happens to be. The rest of you that 21 watch that person probably think, "I wonder what that person 22 doesn't want to say in front of us. I wonder what it is." 23 Most of the time the person would be completely happy to say 24 that in front of all of you, but the problem would be -- and 25 the person perceives it that if they said it that all of you 134 1 would have the same problem they had. Do you understand what 2 I'm saying? 3 Let me give you an example. I'm going to ask 4 you if you know some of the people sitting out here. If one 5 of you says, "Yes, Judge, I know that person very well," I'm 6 not going to ask you any more questions. I'll do the rest of 7 it out of the hearing of the other jurors, not because that 8 person doesn't want to say how he feels but you-all don't need 9 to hear whether he thinks he's a wonderful person or a bad 10 person. You get what I'm saying? So when you see somebody 11 else come up, don't think that person has anything they 12 necessarily want to hide. 13 Having said all that, let me give you a few 14 comments about voir dire and my own observations that will 15 maybe sort of lighten it a little bit. You-all are 16 suffering -- first of all, you are all fairly tired right now. 17 You've been sitting there all day and not much has happened, 18 so you're a little bored and probably tired, but you're also 19 suffering from something called situational anxiety. You're 20 in a strange situation and unless you're so tired you can't be 21 anxious, you're anxious about what's going on. It's kind of 22 like when you went to the first grade for the first time, it 23 all worked out, but going to the first grade the first time 24 probably made you a little anxious. There's nothing wrong 25 with that. Don't let it inhibit you from answering questions. 135 1 You won't hear me fuss at you if you ask a question that you 2 think might not be exactly appropriate or you give an answer 3 that's maybe not responsive to a question. The only time I'll 4 fuss at you is if you don't speak up when you should. Voir 5 dire is explained to you as trying to pick fair and impartial 6 jurors for this case. Now, I want to emphasize the words "for 7 this case." We're not trying to pick fair and impartial 8 people. You can be the world's most fair and impartial 9 person, but if one of these people sitting out in front of you 10 is your brother or your sister or your next-door neighbor, 11 this is not the case for you. Do you understand? They're 12 trying to determine if this personal history and this case 13 match up in such a way that it would be inappropriate for you 14 to sit as a juror? And I just can't overemphasize that 15 enough. 16 Statistically, I can tell you right now that 17 most of you are not going to sit on this jury simply because I 18 know how many people there are out there and I know how many 19 people go on a jury. Americans, and I guess maybe all people, 20 have an urge to make the team. They want to get the question 21 right. Put those feelings aside. There are no right answers. 22 You should just let the process work, answer the questions, 23 and then in a certain period of time there will be a jury 24 selected and the rest of you will get to go on your way. 25 Don't try to get the questions right or try and make the team. 136 1 One other thing I want to point out, that voir 2 dire, this process is really for your benefit as much as 3 anybody's benefit. Usually people think of it as the lawyers 4 trying to find out something about them for the lawyers' 5 benefit. Really it's for your benefit, too, because if you're 6 selected to sit on this jury, trust me, you're going to have 7 enough to do just thinking about this case. You don't want to 8 be in a position where you have to not only think about this 9 case, but you have to remember not to remember something. 10 You're going to need all your brain cells working on this 11 case. So this is your opportunity to find out a little bit 12 about this case. So if it turns out that this is a case where 13 you have those added problems, you can let us know and go sit 14 on another case. 15 Let me turn to the case we have at hand. The 16 style, and by that I mean the name of this case, Joyce 17 Fentress, Individually and as the Administratrix of the Estate 18 of Kenneth Fentress, et al, versus Eli Lilly and Company. It 19 is a civil case; it is not a criminal case. Let me go over 20 that again. The name of this case is Joyce Fentress, 21 Individually and as Administratrix of the Estate of Kenneth 22 Fentress, et al, versus Eli Lilly and Company. It is a civil 23 case; it is not a criminal case. "Et al" means and others. 24 Whenever you give the name of the case, you give whoever the 25 name of the first person is on each side, and if there's more 137 1 than one, you say "and others." There is no particular 2 significance that Ms. Fentress's name appears first; it was 3 almost a kind of mechanical allocation of numbers sort of 4 thing, so I don't want you to think about any other -- that 5 there's any particular significance to that. 6 This case grows out of the September 14th, 1989 7 shootings at the Standard Gravure plant here in Louisville, 8 Kentucky. Standard Gravure was located at Sixth and Broadway. 9 It was a printing company. In the past it had been connected 10 to The Courier-Journal that was owned by Michael Shea in 1989. 11 On that day, Mr. Joseph Wesbecker, a former employee, entered 12 the plant armed with numerous guns and went on a shooting 13 spree. Ultimately, he killed eight people and wounded 14 numerous other people before he killed himself. Now, I assume 15 all of you have read a little something about that over the 16 past number of years. Am I correct in that? It was a fairly 17 big incident here in Louisville. And let me say, as I 18 mentioned, this is a civil suit; it is not a criminal case, 19 and there will be no dispute that Mr. Wesbecker killed and 20 wounded numerous people. So if you're sitting there wondering 21 "I've read about it, I already think he did it, maybe I 22 shouldn't be on this jury," that is not going to be an issue. 23 This action is a civil suit, by that I mean a 24 suit for money against Eli Lilly, the manufacturer of a drug 25 called Prozac. Either at the time of the shooting or shortly 138 1 before the shooting, Mr. Wesbecker had been taking Prozac. 2 The plaintiffs, by that I mean the people bringing this 3 lawsuit, are the representatives of the eight people killed 4 and twelve other people injured during the shooting. They 5 allege or claim that Prozac was a dangerous drug improperly 6 labeled and manufactured, and that Prozac caused Mr. 7 Wesbecker's actions. Lilly asserts Prozac is not dangerous, 8 was properly labeled and marketed and did not cause Mr. 9 Wesbecker's actions. 10 This is just a very sketchy overview of the 11 lawsuit. The primary reason for doing it is so that you'll be 12 able to put some of these other questions I'm going to ask you 13 in context, and also so that I'm more likely to have your 14 attention because you won't be sitting here wondering what the 15 lawsuit's all about. 16 All right. Is there anybody that doesn't 17 understand what I've said so far? Let me introduce the 18 parties sitting here before you. The plaintiffs' attorneys at 19 trial will be Mr. Paul Smith. Would you stand up, sir. He 20 has his -- he is an attorney and has his offices in Dallas, 21 Texas. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. Smith, any member 22 of his family or anyone you believe to be associated with him 23 in the practice of law? Thank you very much, sir. 24 He will be assisted by Ms. Nancy Zettler. Ms. 25 Zettler is an attorney and has her offices outside of Chicago. 139 1 Is there anyone here that knows Ms. Zettler or any member of 2 her family? Thank you very much. 3 Also sitting at counsel table is Mr. Irvin 4 Foley. Would you stand up, sir. He has his offices in the 5 First Trust Centre here in Louisville. Is there anyone here 6 that knows Mr. Foley, any member of his family or anyone you 7 believe to be associated with him in the practice of law? 8 JUROR NO. 131: Hagan, 131. I'm a member of the 9 Louisville Police Department. Mr. Foley, in my younger 10 career, was a legal adviser for our department. I have had 11 occasion to ask him for counsel. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. How long ago was that, 13 sir? 14 JUROR NO. 131: Best estimate, I'd say probably 15 15 years. 16 MR. FOLEY: Twenty. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Did anything happen in that 18 relationship that you felt the police department ought to do 19 one thing and he gave you his opinion it ought to do the 20 other, and you're kind of mad at him? 21 JUROR NO. 131: No, sir. It was strictly a 22 professional relationship. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Either good or bad to carry over 24 to today. Okay. Thank you. And you're Mr. Hagan? 25 JUROR NO. 131: Yes, sir. 140 1 JUDGE POTTER: And let me say something to you 2 all. Everybody here -- and I don't mean that Mr. Hagan has 3 this problem, but everybody here thinks that they've got to be 4 neutral, and it's almost sometimes an insult to the person if 5 you say, "Who is this person?" 6 "Oh, that's my mother." 7 "Could you treat her like everybody else?" 8 "Oh, yes." That's not very flattering to your 9 mother. I hope if I'm ever on trial, my children would treat 10 me different than other people. You shouldn't be embarrassed 11 to say, "I know that person. I like them. I can't treat them 12 like everybody else." Don't get defensive about admitting 13 that you would feel a certain way because you know somebody. 14 It's only natural. As a matter of fact, it's sometimes a 15 little unflattering to hear somebody say, "I know that person, 16 but it's not going to make any difference." 17 Other attorneys who may be assisting at the 18 plaintiffs' side from time to time, let me go over and see if 19 you know any of them. Mr. William Nold, would you stand up, 20 sir? And his partner, Mr. Ethridge, is not -- there he is. 21 He wasn't here this morning. Does anyone know Mr. Nold, Mr. 22 Ethridge, any member of either person's family or anyone you 23 believe to be associated with them in the practice of law? 24 Yes, sir? 25 JUROR NO. 52: Spalding, 52. Mr. Ethridge has 141 1 represented the Jefferson County Police Merit Board for 2 several years. He and I have had meetings and been on 3 opposite ends and the same end of the spectrum on several 4 situations in the past. 5 JUDGE POTTER: How long was the last time you 6 had dealings with him? 7 JUROR NO. 52: In the last six, eight months, I 8 would assume. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Sometimes those kind of 10 proceedings, you know, depending on what you're on, can leave 11 an awful bitter taste in somebody's mouth. Is there anything 12 that would carry over from those dealings to today? 13 JUROR NO. 52: I wouldn't think so at this time; 14 no, sir. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. 16 Spalding, let me just ask you one question. I happen to 17 recognize you and you are with the police department, and if 18 I'm not correct, you were fairly heavily involved in 19 investigating what went on up there; is that right? 20 JUROR NO. 52: What went on where, sir? 21 JUDGE POTTER: At Standard Gravure. 22 JUROR NO. 52: No, sir. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I'm sorry. I thought you 24 were involved in that. Okay. Let me go through -- another 25 person is Mr. Dobiesz. He has his -- Mark Dobiesz. He has 142 1 his offices in 1700 Waterfront Plaza. Is there anyone here -- 2 Mr. Dobiesz is not here right now. Is there anyone who knows 3 Mr. Dobiesz, any member of his family or anyone whom you 4 believe to be associated with him in the practice of law? 5 Another attorney is Mr. Hume Morris. Mr. Morris 6 has his offices in the Starks Building. Is there anyone here 7 that knows Mr. Morris, any member of his family or anyone whom 8 you believe to be associated with him in the practice of law? 9 Thank you very much, Mr. Morris. 10 Another attorney who is not here right now is 11 Mr. Harry Hargadon. He has his offices on West Main Street. 12 Is there anyone here who knows Mr. Harry Hargadon, any member 13 of his family or anyone whom you believe to be associated with 14 him in the practice of law? 15 Another attorney is Mr. Nicholas Stein. Would 16 you stand up, sir. His offices are in New Albany, Indiana. 17 Is there anyone here that knows Mr. Stein, any member of his 18 family or anyone whom you believe to be associated with him in 19 the practice of law? Thank you very much, Mr. Stein. 20 Another attorney is Mr. Don Brown. We probably 21 all know a Don Brown somewhere in our lives, but this one 22 happens to be a lawyer here in Louisville with his offices at 23 235 South Fifth Street. Is there anyone here who knows Mr. 24 Brown or any member of his family? 25 Another attorney involved in this case is Mr. 143 1 Carl Bensinger. Would you stand up, sir. Mr. Bensinger has 2 his offices in the Kentucky Home Life Building. Is there 3 anyone here that knows Mr. Bensinger or any member of his 4 family? 5 JUROR NO. 202: Laurie, 202. I know Mr. 6 Bensinger through political activities at the party to which 7 we both belong. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Do you just know him from -- 9 JUROR NO. 202: From the political. And I 10 volunteer at the headquarters and have had some dealings with 11 him on that professional basis. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anything about 13 that that you think might carry over to today? 14 JUROR NO. 202: I wouldn't think so; no, sir. 15 JUDGE POTTER: In other words, if you had to 16 decide against his client, you wouldn't be worried about 17 having to face him? And I assume we're talking about 18 Democratic headquarters? 19 JUROR NO. 202: Well, yes. That's correct. 20 JUDGE POTTER: And there's nothing that would 21 deter you there? 22 JUROR NO. 202: No, sir. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Let me introduce to you the 24 plaintiffs in this action, the plaintiff whose name I read off 25 first. Could you stand up, please, ma'am. You're here with 144 1 your daughter; is that right? Would your daughter also stand 2 up. Is there anyone who knows Ms. Joyce Fentress, her 3 daughter, any member of their family or Kenneth Fentress, who 4 was her husband and now deceased? Thank you very much. 5 Also another party in this action is Jackie 6 Tronzo and Tracy Needy on behalf of Sharon Needy. That was 7 their mother. Is there anyone here who knows Jackie Tronzo or 8 Tracy Needy or knew Sharon Needy, who is deceased? Thank 9 you-all. 10 Also a plaintiff is Roma Jean Barger, 11 individually and on behalf of Richard Barger, who was her 12 husband. Would you stand up. Thank you, ma'am. Is there 13 anyone here who knows Ms. Barger or any member of her family 14 or knew her husband, Richard Barger, who is now deceased? 15 Thank you very much. 16 Another plaintiff is Juanita Sallee, 17 individually and on behalf of Paul Sallee, who is deceased and 18 was her husband. Is there anyone here who knows Juanita 19 Sallee, any member of her family or knew Paul Sallee? Thank 20 you very much. 21 Another plaintiff in this action is Janice Mudd, 22 individually and on behalf of James Husband. Mr. Husband was 23 her father; he is now deceased. Is there anyone here that 24 knows Janice Mudd, any member of her family or knew James Mudd 25 or any member of his family? 145 1 MS. MUDD: Husband. 2 JUDGE POTTER: I'm sorry. I got it right the 3 first time and not the second time. Thank you, ma'am. 4 Another plaintiff in this action is Linda 5 Ganote, individually and on behalf of William Ganote, who was 6 her husband and now deceased. Is there anybody here that 7 knows Ms. Ganote or any member of her family or knew William 8 Ganote? 9 JUROR NO. 156: Hall, 156. Miss Ganote's 10 husband used to be my brother-in-law's brother. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I won't try and sort that 12 out to what it becomes, but is it someone you knew fairly 13 well? 14 JUROR NO. 156: My brother-in-law is her 15 brother-in-law. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Was it what you would call 17 a close relationship or not? 18 JUROR NO. 156: Not with her husband, but with 19 my brother-in-law. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Say that again for me, sir. 21 JUROR NO. 156: Billy Ganote wasn't a close 22 friend, but my brother-in-law is. 23 JUDGE POTTER: And how are you related to -- 24 Billy Ganote is? 25 JUROR NO. 156: Charles Ganote is my 146 1 brother-in-law, and it's Billy's brother. 2 JUDGE POTTER: And you are close to your 3 brother-in-law; is that what you're saying? 4 JUROR NO. 156: Yes, sir. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Have 6 a seat. Is there anyone else here that knows Ms. Ganote, any 7 member of her family or knew William Ganote? 8 Another plaintiff in this action is Sarah Wible, 9 individually and on behalf of James Wible, Sr., her husband. 10 She is here by her daughter, Ms. Bishop. 11 MS. BISHOP: It's Wible, like Bible. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I apologize. Is there 13 anyone here that knew Sarah Wible individually or knew James 14 Wible, her husband? Is there anyone here who knows Ms. 15 Bishop? Thank you very much, ma'am. 16 Another plaintiff is Marila White, individually 17 and on behalf of Lloyd White, her husband, who is deceased, 18 and her daughter is here, also. 19 Is there anyone here that knows Marila White, 20 her daughter or knew Lloyd White or any member of either 21 person's family? Their family obviously is the same family. 22 Thank you very much, Ms. White. 23 Another plaintiff in this action who cannot be 24 here today is Gordon Sherer. He lives on -- he's here. 25 That's right. Thank you, Mr. Sherer. Do you want to stand 147 1 up. Is there anyone here that knows Gordon Sherer or any 2 member of his family? Thank you very much, sir. 3 Another plaintiff in this action is Andrew 4 Pointer. Is there anyone that knows Mr. Pointer or any member 5 of his family? With him is Shirley Pointer, his wife, or she 6 was here this morning. 7 MS. ZETTLER: She's the one I told you had to go 8 to the doctor. 9 Does anyone know Andrew Pointer, Shirley 10 Pointer, or any member of their family? Thank you very much, 11 Mr. Pointer. 12 Another plaintiff in this action is Paul 13 Gnadinger. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. Gnadinger or 14 any member of his family? Thank you very much, sir. 15 Another plaintiff in this action is Michael 16 Campbell. Would you stand up, sir. I'm getting ahead of 17 myself. Is there anyone here that knows Mr. Campbell or any 18 member of his family? Yes, ma'am. 19 JUROR NO. 34: I have a question. Baldwin, 34. 20 Are you a brother to Donna St. Clair? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: (Nods head affirmatively). 22 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Baldwin, what does that tell 23 you? 24 JUROR NO. 34: I work with his sister, Donna, at 25 St. Mary's. 148 1 JUDGE POTTER: So you work with Mr. Campbell's 2 sister at St. Mary's? 3 JUROR NO. 34: Right. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. That's a big place. Do 5 you work in the same department? 6 JUROR NO. 34: Yes, I do. 7 JUDGE POTTER: And what department is that? 8 JUROR NO. 34: Outpatient admitting. But I 9 don't work there now. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 11 JUROR NO. 34: I did not work with her when this 12 happened. 13 JUDGE POTTER: You didn't work with her when 14 this happened, when the incident happened. Okay. When did 15 you work with her? 16 JUROR NO. 34: Six years ago. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anything about 18 that relationship that you think might carry over to today, 19 that you were very close to her or maybe she beat you out for 20 a job and you don't like her? 21 JUROR NO. 34: No. No. We were just working 22 partners. She worked one shift and I worked the other. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much. Thank you, 24 Mr. Campbell. 25 Another plaintiff in this action is Angela 149 1 Bowman. Would you please identify yourself, ma'am. And her 2 husband, Douglas Bowman. He was here this morning. Is there 3 anyone that knows Angela Bowman or Douglas Bowman or either 4 member of Ms. Bowman's family? Can everyone see Ms. Bowman? 5 All right. Thank you, very much, Ms. Bowman. 6 Another plaintiff in this case is William 7 Hoffmann. Is there anyone that knows Mr. William Hoffmann or 8 any member of his family? Thank you very much, sir. 9 Another plaintiff in this action is Mr. Charles 10 Gorman. Would you stand up, sir. Is there anyone here that 11 knows Mr. Gorman or any member of his family? Yes, sir? 12 JUROR NO. 131: Hagan, 131. Mr. Gorman is a 13 first cousin to my wife. I personally do not know Mr. Gorman. 14 I met him at I think probably two weddings and a funeral in 15 the last 25 years of my marriage. 16 JUDGE POTTER: I think there's a movie title in 17 there somewhere, isn't it? 18 JUROR NO. 131: He is a first cousin to my wife. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I saw another hand up in 20 the back. 21 JUROR NO. 52: Spalding, 52. I don't know if he 22 knows. Mr. Gorman and I go to the same church. I see him 23 periodically in church and different functions and activities 24 and in the neighborhood. 25 JUDGE POTTER: You say "periodically." Is that 150 1 because you miss a lot or he misses a lot? 2 JUROR NO. 52: No. He'll sometimes go on 3 Saturdays and I'll go on Sundays. 4 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Thank you very much. 5 Another plaintiff in this action is David 6 Seidenfaden. Would you stand up, sir. Also a party to this, 7 Geraldine Seidenfaden, who is not here, and -- oh, yes, she 8 is. 9 MRS. SEIDENFADEN: My son is here now, too. 10 Jeff. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anyone here that knows 12 Mr. and Mrs. Seidenfaden or any member of their family? 13 JUROR NO. 120: Brown, 120. I know them from 14 church, and I see them in the neighborhood occasionally. 15 JUDGE POTTER: All right. You-all just go to 16 the same church? 17 JUROR NO. 120: Just go to the same church. 18 JUDGE POTTER: I mean, we're talking hundreds of 19 members or a very small church? 20 JUROR NO. 120: I don't know him personally. I 21 just know him from church, from seeing him. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. There's another hand down 23 here. Yes, sir. 24 JUROR NO. 26: Ackermann, 26. They belong to 25 the same club I used to years ago. 151 1 JUDGE POTTER: How long ago was that, sir? 2 JUROR NO. 26: I don't know how many years ago. 3 Eight, ten. 4 JUDGE POTTER: And what was the club? 5 JUROR NO. 26: American Turners. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Were you-all -- you just 7 knew him as another member of the club or you-all did 8 something -- you know, you were both on the committee to buy a 9 new building? 10 JUROR NO. 26: No. We were just friends at the 11 club. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Have you kept up with him in the 13 last eight to ten years? 14 JUROR NO. 26: No, sir. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you. Well, let me just ask 16 the bottom line. Is there anything about that that would 17 carry over to today? 18 JUROR NO. 26: No, sir. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 20 Another plaintiff in this action, and this is 21 why I thought you weren't here, Ms. Seidenfaden, is because I 22 got you confused with the Hatfields and they weren't here this 23 morning. Another plaintiff in this action is Stanley Hatfield 24 and his wife, Darlene Hatfield. This is Mr. Hatfield. Is 25 there anyone here that knows Mr. Hatfield or any member of his 152 1 family or his wife, Darlene Hatfield? Thank you very much, 2 sir. 3 Another plaintiff in this action is Forrest 4 Conrad. He is not here. His wife is here, Sandra Conrad. 5 Would you stand up, ma'am. Is there anyone here that knows 6 Ms. Sandra Conrad or Forrest Conrad or any member of their 7 family? Thank you very much. 8 Another plaintiff in this action is John Stein, 9 and he is here with his wife, Linda Stein. Would you-all 10 stand up. Is there anyone here that knows John Stein or Linda 11 Stein or any member of their family? Thank you very much. 12 Another plaintiff in this action is Paula Warman 13 and her husband, David Warman. Would you stand up. Is Mr. 14 Warman here? 15 MRS. WARMAN: No, sir. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Paula Warman is here. Does 17 anybody know Paula Warman or her husband, David Warman, or any 18 member of their family? They're from Greenville, Indiana. 19 Thank you very much. 20 Just to satisfy your curiosity, I've introduced 21 everybody over there except two people. Let me get my list. 22 One person is Monica Putnam and the other is Amy Carey. They 23 are legal assistants that will be assisting the plaintiffs' 24 attorneys. They are from out of town, so I don't guess 25 anybody knows them, but I thought I would introduce them. 153 1 Just so I've got it straight and have a recap, 2 except for those people that spoke up, nobody out there knows 3 anybody or anybody's family that are sitting on this part or 4 that part; is that correct? 5 MR. NEWBAUER: Judge Potter, you didn't 6 introduce me. Frank Newbauer for Lanny Holbrook and 7 Associates. 8 JUDGE POTTER: This is Mr. Newbauer; he is with 9 Holbrook and Associates. Lanny Holbrook is -- we're looking 10 for a town. 11 MR. NEWBAUER: Cincinnati, Ohio. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Does anyone know this gentleman, 13 any member of his family or anybody you believe to be 14 associated with him in the practice of law? Thank you very 15 much. 16 MS. ZETTLER: Your Honor? 17 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir. 18 JUROR NO. 152: Rapp, 152. I'd like to ask Mr. 19 Gnadinger, do you have a daughter named Angie? 20 MR. GNADINGER: Yes, I do. 21 JUROR NO. 152: My son dated his daughter for 22 six months or so. I think I met him once. 23 JUDGE POTTER: How long ago? 24 JUROR NO. 152: Probably been five, six years. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Was there anything about 154 1 that relationship or that dating that you think might carry 2 over to today? Sometimes a six-month thing can create a lot 3 of problems, sometimes it can't. 4 JUROR NO. 152: No, I don't think so. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 6 JUROR NO. 13: Flanery, 13. I would like to ask 7 Mr. Nold if you have a relative named Bob Nold who works at 8 Columbia HCA. 9 MR. NOLD: Yes, I do. Yes. 10 JUROR NO. 13: I work with Bob. 11 MR. FREEMAN: What is your number and name, 12 please? 13 JUDGE POTTER: This is Ms. Flanery, No. 13. Ms. 14 Flanery, you're a programmer/analyst; is that it? 15 JUROR NO. 13: Yes. 16 JUDGE POTTER: What does Mr. Nold do? 17 JUROR NO. 13: He's program leader. 18 MR. NOLD: He's my nephew, Judge. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Do you work closely with him at 20 work? I'm not enough familiar with computer hierarchies to 21 know if that makes you-all close employees or not. 22 JUROR NO. 13: I know him. I see him on a daily 23 basis. He isn't my project leader. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think anything about that 25 would carry over to today in the sense that you would -- if 155 1 you had to decide against this gentleman or his side of the 2 case you might be a little embarrassed when you got back to 3 work, or do you come into this case with a nice feeling about 4 Mr. Nold that you don't have with these gentlemen? 5 JUROR NO. 13: Yes, I do like him as a person. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Not this Mr. Nold, the other Mr. 7 Nold. You like him as a person. But is there anything that 8 would carry over to this case in the sense that you would... 9 JUROR NO. 13: No. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. All 11 right. So except for those other people that spoke up, no one 12 knows anybody on this side; is that right? And, let me say, 13 when you were in school didn't you get things called pop or 14 surprise quizzes where they kind of dropped it on you when you 15 really didn't know? I don't know about you, but I always 16 found that after I left the classroom I'd say, "Oh, I thought 17 of an answer." If that happens to any of you, raise your hand 18 and we'll go back to it. Don't hesitate to do that. 19 As I said, the defendant in this case is Eli 20 Lilly. They are represented by Mr. Edward Stopher. Would you 21 stand up, Mr. Stopher. He has his offices in the Providian 22 Center, which some people may know as the Capital Holding 23 Building here in Louisville, Kentucky. He may be assisted by 24 Mr. Bob McClure, who is not here right now. Does anyone here 25 know Mr. Edward Stopher, Mr. Bob McClure, any member of either 156 1 person's family or anyone whom you believe to be associated 2 with them in the practice of law? 3 JUROR NO. 111: Bobbie, 111. Do you have a 4 family member that's a member of the Broadway Baptist Church? 5 MR. STOPHER: Right. 6 JUROR NO. 111: I attend that church on a 7 regular basis. 8 JUDGE POTTER: And who is that family member? 9 MR. STOPHER: I sometimes attend there myself, 10 Judge, but my father and my brother and my whole family 11 basically, Judge. You sing in the choir? 12 JUROR NO. 111: Yes. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Let me cut -- Mr. Bobbie, have 14 you known Mr. Stopher or his family other than just as 15 communicants of the same church? Were you-all on, like, a 16 committee together or anything like that? 17 JUROR NO. 111: I don't believe so, no. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Do you think anything about that 19 would carry over to today? If you had to decide against his 20 side, you might be a little embarrassed if you had to see him 21 the next time in church or anything like that? 22 JUROR NO. 111: I wouldn't think so, no. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Anyone else here know Mr. Stopher 24 or any member of his family? Thank you very much, sir. 25 MR. STOPHER: Thank you, Judge. 157 1 JUDGE POTTER: Also representing Lilly is Mr. 2 Joe Freeman. Would you stand up, sir. And Mr. Lawrence 3 Myers. Would you stand up, sir. They are lawyers and have 4 their offices in Atlanta, Georgia. Is there anyone here that 5 knows Mr. Freeman, Mr. Myers, any member of either person's 6 family or anybody you believe to be associated with them in 7 the practice of law? Thank you very much. 8 MR. FREEMAN: Thank you, Judge. 9 JUDGE POTTER: As I said, Eli Lilly obviously is 10 a company and they are here by their representative. He is 11 Doctor Leigh Thompson. Would you stand up, sir. Doctor 12 Thompson lives in Indianapolis. Is there anyone here that 13 knows Doctor Thompson or any member of his family? Thank you 14 very much. 15 Eli Lilly is a company that manufactures 16 themselves pharmaceuticals, drugs. Is there anyone here that 17 has any contact with Lilly other than as a person using their 18 product, I mean, person taking a drug because they're sick? 19 Let me go over some of the ways you might have a contact with 20 them: Your brother-in-law works for them; you service Xerox 21 machines and their office here, if they have an office here, 22 is one of your places you go. I suspect some of you work in 23 pharmacies or hospitals and you might dispense their products. 24 Do you see what I'm saying? Some sort of contact with them 25 other than in 1972 when I was sick I took one of their 158 1 products. I'm sure a lot of you have probably taken their 2 products and don't even know. Let me go about it that way, by 3 rows. Anybody in the first row that's had any contact with 4 Eli Lilly other than somebody that's used their products when 5 they're sick? How about the second row? Anybody in that row? 6 Yes, sir. 7 JUROR NO. 27: Gunnels, No. 27. My company has 8 a branch in Indianapolis and Eli Lilly is a customer of ours, 9 buys products that we sell. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Isn't a fluid powder a 11 contradiction in terms? 12 JUROR NO. 27: Maybe. 13 JUDGE POTTER: So is your company -- the Mosier 14 company headquartered in Indianapolis or here or where are 15 they? 16 JUROR NO. 27: Yes. Indianapolis. 17 JUDGE POTTER: And Lilly is one of their -- one 18 of your customers? 19 JUROR NO. 27: Yes, sir. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is there anything about 21 that that would make you reluctant to side against them here 22 if that's what you felt you ought to do in the sense that you 23 think, "Gee, it's a customer of my company; I might get some 24 grief when I get back," or something like that? 25 JUROR NO. 27: No, sir. 159 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you. Anybody else 2 in the second row? How about the third row, middle row there? 3 Yes, ma'am. 4 JUROR NO. 31: Lampkins, No. 31. I work in a 5 hospital. I'm the secretary and I have to take off orders 6 that prescribe some of their drugs. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is the hospital we're 8 talking about Our Lady of Peace? 9 JUROR NO. 31: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE POTTER: And you are a secretary there, 11 unit secretary? 12 JUROR NO. 31: Yes. Direct with patient care. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 14 Anyone else on that third row or the middle row there that's 15 had some contact with Lilly other than as a user of their 16 products? Okay. The fourth row or the next-to-last row, is 17 there anyone there who's had any contact with Eli Lilly? Yes, 18 ma'am. 19 JUROR NO. 33: Merrick, No. 33. I think I might 20 have owned some Lilly stock in the past. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. But not currently? 22 JUROR NO. 33: I don't think so. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much. That's 24 another way you could be connected if somebody owns some 25 stock. Anybody in that fourth row back there, next-to-last 160 1 row has any contact with Lilly? How about the last row? No 2 one in the last row? 3 Has anybody here -- so that -- except for the 4 people who have spoken up, the only people here who had 5 contact with Lilly are people who perhaps use their product. 6 What I'm going to ask you now is anybody here who's used their 7 products had what you call an unusual experience, either good 8 or bad? I don't need to know about what it is. I just want 9 to know if you've had that kind of experience or any member of 10 your family had that kind of experience, you know what I mean, 11 or something didn't work or it worked so well it's wonderful, 12 however it happens to be. Again I'll go by rows. Anybody on 13 the first row? Second row? Yes, ma'am. 14 JUROR NO. 213: Duncan, 213. A friend of mine 15 used Prozac when she went through depression. 16 JUDGE POTTER: And I take it it's a close 17 friend? 18 JUROR NO. 213: Not really. Just somebody I 19 knew. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Yes, 21 sir. 22 JUROR NO. 27: Gunnels, 27. My wife currently 23 takes Prozac. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much. As I say, 25 I'll talk to you on a one-on-one basis in a minute, so if 161 1 anyone wants to say I've taken their products and had an 2 unusual reaction. Anybody on the first row or second row? 3 JUROR NO. 216: Carrell, 216. I have a good 4 friend that takes Prozac. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anybody on the fourth 6 row that has had an unusual experience with the product? Yes, 7 ma'am. 8 JUROR NO. 50: Potts, No. 50. My grandmother on 9 occasion takes Prozac. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else in that row? Yes, 11 ma'am. 12 JUROR NO. 33: Merrick, 33. I've taken Prozac 13 briefly in the past. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, ma'am? 15 JUROR NO. 214: O'Reilly, 214. I do take their 16 product, Prozac. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Yes, sir. Down here in 18 the front. 19 JUROR NO. 120: Brown, 120. I also take Prozac. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. 21 Brown. 22 MR. SMITH: May we approach the bench, Your 23 Honor? 24 (THE FOLLOWING IS A BENCH DISCUSSION) 25 MR. SMITH: At this time the Plaintiff will move 162 1 to strike this panel. There have been eight people who have 2 indicated that they take Prozac in direct violation of the 3 Court's order. 4 JUDGE POTTER: No. 5 MR. SMITH: The implication is that these people 6 are here, safe and well, taking Prozac. I think it's tainted 7 the entire panel. That's the reason we submitted the 8 questionnaires. The Court gave the panel clear instructions 9 not to indicate the name of the product. We would move to 10 strike this panel by virtue of the argument that's sure to be 11 made at some time by the defendants that at some time were a 12 lot of you on the panel that were here taking this medicine. 13 MR. FREEMAN: We're not going to do that. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Let him finish. 15 MR. SMITH: We're not asking for a mistrial; 16 we're asking to strike this panel. 17 MR. FREEMAN: We're not going to make any 18 argument that a number of people stood up and said they took 19 Prozac. I think that would be inappropriate. 20 JUDGE POTTER: The point is I did not -- I did 21 not give them specific instructions. I told them they didn't 22 have to, and that was to encourage people. So I don't think 23 it was a violation of my instructions. Second of all, 24 obviously, some people are going to be taking it and they've 25 spoken up, and I don't think that's grounds to grant -- 163 1 MR. FREEMAN: We agree with you, Judge. 2 JUDGE POTTER: -- to, in effect, strike this 3 panel. 4 MR. FREEMAN: Thank you. 5 (BENCH DISCUSSION ENDED) 6 JUDGE POTTER: I was on the fourth row. 7 JUROR NO. 121: Burks, 121. I was kind of 8 thinking back. My wife's a registered nurse. She's commented 9 on Prozac, but I don't recall which way and how strongly 10 regarding that. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. We'll talk about that 12 later. Okay. 13 MR. FREEMAN: Your number is 121, sir? 14 JUROR NO. 121: Yes. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I was back to -- yes, 16 ma'am, Ms. Merrick. 17 MS. MERRICK: No. It's in front of me. 18 JUROR NO. 112: Howard, 112. I'm a social 19 worker, and about 17 months ago I worked in a mental health 20 center and I had a client that was on Prozac. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. Yes, 22 sir? 23 JUROR NO. 101: Irwin, 101. I must have misread 24 your question, because I thought you said unusual experience. 25 JUDGE POTTER: The question kind of evolved by 164 1 people answering. I haven't really asked for people who have 2 a friend or anything like that that's taken Lilly. Have you 3 had an unusual experience with any Lilly product, whatever it 4 is, and then I was going to talk to you about it later. Yes, 5 sir. 6 JUROR NO. 101: I was going to say my daughter 7 has taken Prozac under prescription. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Who has taken it or whatnot, 9 there's going to be a written questionnaire that you'll be 10 given after this, and that will give you a chance to explain 11 this in some detail. What I'm interested in now: Do you as 12 an individual or a close member of your family take a product 13 manufactured by Lilly and had what you considered an unusual 14 experience, either good or bad? Okay. And back to the last 15 row, anybody on the last row? Yes, ma'am. On the left. 16 JUROR NO. 99: Smith, 99. And I take Prozac on 17 a daily basis. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, ma'am? 19 JUROR NO. 36: Roberts, 36. A member of the 20 family takes Prozac. 21 JUDGE POTTER: There may be some other people 22 who are not parties here who you will be asked to determine 23 whether or not they've acted properly during this thing. One 24 of them is Joseph Wesbecker. Is there anybody here that has 25 any contact with Mr. Wesbecker or knew Mr. Wesbecker? I'm 165 1 sure you all read about it in the newspaper. Is there anybody 2 hear that knew him or had any contact with him or his family? 3 Yes, ma'am? 4 JUROR NO. 34: I presently work with -- 5 JUDGE POTTER: Your last name and your badge 6 number? 7 JUROR NO. 34: Baldwin, 34. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, Ms. Baldwin. 9 JUROR NO. 34: I presently work with his 10 ex-wife. You want her name? 11 JUDGE POTTER: Yes. 12 JUROR NO. 34: Sue Chesser. 13 JUDGE POTTER: I take it, have you and her 14 discussed this case much or not? 15 JUROR NO. 34: I was with her when it happened. 16 We worked together at that time. It hasn't been discussed 17 much at all. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Do you still work with her? 19 JUROR NO. 34: Yes. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything that -- I don't 21 want to know what it is, but is there anything she said to you 22 or anything you've heard because of this relationship that you 23 think might give you a special insight to what's going on? 24 JUROR NO. 34: No, sir. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else? Yes, sir? 166 1 JUROR NO. 52: Spalding, 52. I was involved in 2 the investigation involving one of his immediate family 3 members. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Spalding. 5 Yes, ma'am? 6 JUROR NO. 31: Lampkins, 31. During the time 7 before this incident happened, this patient was at Our Lady of 8 Peace Hospital, which everybody knows by now. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And you knew him when he 10 was there or you just because of this know that he had been 11 there? 12 JUROR NO. 31: No. He was on one of the units I 13 worked on. 14 JUDGE POTTER: He was actually on one of the 15 floors? 16 JUROR NO. 31: One of the units I worked on. 17 JUDGE POTTER: He was on one of the units 18 that -- 19 JUROR NO. 31: Units that I worked on. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. This is Ms. Lanham, 37? 21 JUROR NO. 31: No. Lampkins, 31. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Have we talked -- is there 23 anybody that has any special connection with Mr. Joseph 24 Wesbecker? 25 Another entity you may be asked to decide about 167 1 is Standard Gravure, a printing company in town here. Is 2 there anybody here that's had any contact with Standard 3 Gravure, by that I mean worked for it, your brother worked for 4 it, anything like that. And again let me go by rows. Is 5 there anybody in the first row that's had any contact with 6 Standard Gravure? Yes, sir. 7 JUROR NO. 26: Ackermann, 26. I know several 8 people that's worked down there. I'm not real close friends 9 to them. 10 JUDGE POTTER: None of them are the people that 11 are here today; is that right? 12 JUROR NO. 26: No. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Were any of them injured in this 14 incident? 15 JUROR NO. 26: No, sir. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else on the first row 17 there? How about the second row? Yes, sir. 18 JUROR NO. 156: Hall, 156. My brother-in-law 19 worked at Standard Gravure, too. And I work with several guys 20 now that worked there. 21 JUDGE POTTER: That worked there before and now 22 work with you? 23 JUROR NO. 156: Right. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Was he there in 1989, your 25 brother-in-law? 168 1 JUROR NO. 156: No. He was on vacation that 2 week. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Have you talked to him a great 4 deal about this? 5 JUROR NO. 156: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you very much, sir. Anyone 7 else there in the second row? How about the third row? Yes, 8 ma'am? 9 JUROR NO. 116: Jennette, 116. I vaguely knew a 10 lady that worked there and I think she was injured, but I just 11 knew her to speak to her a couple of times. 12 JUDGE POTTER: What was her name? 13 JUROR NO. 116: I believe it was Doris Miller. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Doris Melon? 15 JUROR NO. 116: Miller. I might be wrong. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. 17 Anybody else there on the third row, the middle row? How 18 about the fourth row? In case you've forgotten, what we're 19 asking is any kind of contacts you had or have with Standard 20 Gravure. The fourth row. Yes, sir. 21 JUROR NO. 152: Rapp, 152. Just a friend I knew 22 worked there at the time. 23 MS. ZETTLER: Pardon? 24 JUROR NO. 152: Friend I just knew worked there 25 at that time. 169 1 JUDGE POTTER: Was he there in 1989? 2 JUROR NO. 152: Yes, sir. He's retired. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Have you had an opportunity to 4 talk to him about what went on down there? 5 JUROR NO. 152: No. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Is it somebody you see on a 7 regular basis? 8 JUROR NO. 152: No, not over once or twice a 9 year now. I used to go to the church he went to. Now we've 10 changed churches and I just see him once or twice a year now. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Thank you very much. I 12 think there was an another man on row -- 13 JUROR NO. 179: Mader, 179. I know an employee 14 who works at Southern Gravure. I used to work with him at 15 Reynolds. 16 JUDGE POTTER: It was a person that used to work 17 with you at Reynolds and went over to Standard Gravure? 18 JUROR NO. 179: Right. 19 JUDGE POTTER: When was the last time you saw 20 this person? 21 JUROR NO. 179: Probably five years ago. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Is there anything about your 23 relationship with him or anything that because of him you 24 followed or knowledge you've gained that you think might carry 25 over to today? 170 1 JUROR NO. 179: No. 2 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Thank you very much, 3 sir. How about one more time on the fourth row. How about 4 the last row, anybody there have any connection with Standard 5 Gravure? Work there, good friend worked there, serviced Xerox 6 machines when they were there? 7 Okay. Another entity that you may be asked to 8 decide about is Hall Security Services, Inc. At the time in 9 1989, they were supplying some watchmen or security guards to 10 Standard Gravure. They're located at 1400 Berry Boulevard, 11 and does anybody know or have any connection with Hall 12 Security? Yes, sir? 13 JUROR NO. 216: Carrell, 216. We employ them 14 where I work. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. And that's at the Marley 16 Cooling Tower? 17 JUROR NO. 216: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Do you know people there 19 that are Hall Security employees? 20 JUROR NO. 216: People that come to our plant, 21 yes. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Have you ever talked to 23 them about what went on at Standard Gravure? 24 JUROR NO. 216: No, sir. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Until today, did you even know 171 1 that they had -- 2 JUROR NO. 216: No. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else? Now, let me turn 4 to another topic and let me say I don't know what's wrong with 5 the air-conditioning in here. It's just not you-all that are 6 hot. Everybody's hot. Since heat rises and I'm up here, I 7 may be a little worse off than the rest of you. I don't know. 8 Let me turn to another question that I'm sure is 9 on each of us mind; that is, how long is this trial likely to 10 take. Honestly, have you had that in your mind? How many 11 people have thought about I wonder about how long. This side 12 is either more honest or quicker than this side. Counsel have 13 discussed this, and they have made an estimate and think it 14 will take six to eight weeks. 15 I want to go over some obvious points with you. 16 First of all, I don't think any of you really want to be here 17 if you're honest with yourselves. You might say, "I want to 18 serve. I'm always happy to do my civic duty. I want to do my 19 civic duty," but I think really, honestly, all of you have 20 some place you'd rather be. That really is kind of a given 21 with any jury pool. I think you should do your civic duty, 22 but I think also in the back of your mind you're thinking some 23 sheriff will come out to your house if you don't show up. The 24 fact that you don't want to be here is totally natural and 25 something I would expect. I think jury duty is -- sometimes 172 1 they say it's a civic duty and they say voting is a civic 2 duty. They compare the two and say it's as important as 3 voting and voting is the same as the jury. I don't think 4 that's a fair comparison. Voting is a choice and it takes you 5 five minutes. I think it's somewhere between voting and being 6 drafted in the army. It's a civic duty but a little more 7 onerous than that. The point is I think society has a right 8 to demand certain things of its citizens at certain times. 9 Although the draft in the army is probably the most onerous 10 demand, it does have a right to demand things of its citizens. 11 Joking aside, jury service is important not only 12 to the litigants but the system, the country, and you-all for 13 the system to work. I could have gone back and looked up 14 something that George Washington said or some famous person a 15 long time ago said. I could probably do a lot of things to 16 find something important about the jury service, but I really 17 happen to be reading totally for nothing to do with this case 18 a book the other night published this year by someone that 19 writes for The Wall Street Journal, who was not particularly 20 enamored by the jury system. It was more or less a book 21 critical of the jury system. What I will tell you is even 22 that person came to the conclusion that the jury process, and 23 I quote, "is the most potent and ingenious vehicle for self 24 rule ever invented," end quote. So you would expect something 25 like that from a long ago forefather, but we're talking today 173 1 people still believe that and they believe that even when 2 they're not big fans of the jury system. 3 Having said that, I'm now going to ask you the 4 next question. Do you know of any reason that would make it 5 impossible or extremely difficult for you to sit here for the 6 next six to eight weeks to give this your total attention? Is 7 there anybody on the first row that knows of some reason that 8 would make it very, very difficult or impossible? Yes, ma'am. 9 JUROR NO. 198: Barnes, 198. We have family in 10 Texas and we're planning to leave. 11 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to discuss the reasons 12 with you individually later. I just need to identify the 13 parties. Anybody else on the first row? Yes, sir. 14 JUROR NO. 121: Burks, 121. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Yes, sir? 16 JUROR NO. 92: Browne, No. 92. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, sir? 18 JUROR NO. 135: Bowling, No. 135. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody on the second row? Okay. 20 JUROR NO. 216: Carrell, 216. 21 JUROR NO. 166: Drosity, 166. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Anybody else on the second row? 23 JUROR NO. 27: Gunnels, 27. 24 JUDGE POTTER: How about the third row? Yes, 25 ma'am. 174 1 JUROR NO. 184: Hamilton, 184. 2 JUROR NO. 31: Lampkins, 31. 3 JUROR NO. 127: Kopp, 127. 4 JUROR NO. 37: Lanham, 37. 5 JUDGE POTTER: How about the fourth row? Start 6 over on this end. Yes sir. 7 JUROR NO. 152: Rapp, 152. 8 JUROR NO. 50: Potts, 50. 9 JUROR NO. 214: O'Reilly, 214. 10 JUROR NO. 179: Mader, 179. 11 JUDGE POTTER: And now we're going to go to the 12 last row. Yes, ma'am. 13 JUROR NO. 99: Smith, 99. 14 JUROR NO. 47: Smith, 47. 15 JUROR NO. 212: Sullivan, 212. 16 JUROR NO. 36: Roberts, 36. 17 JUROR NO. 52: Spalding, 52. 18 JUROR NO. 167: Richy, 167. 19 JUDGE POTTER: What the process will be from now 20 on is what I'm going to do is give you-all questionnaires, and 21 my sheriff will take you back over to the jury pool and 22 you-all will take, you know, five or ten minutes to complete 23 this questionnaire. There will be some people there from the 24 jury pool who will assist you if you need it. I'm going to 25 recess till 9:00 tomorrow morning. If you-all will be in the 175 1 jury pool room at 9:00 tomorrow morning, the sheriff will tell 2 you what to do from there. 3 I'm going to give you an admonition. This is 4 some rules you should follow during this recess and absolutely 5 every recess. I think the first rule would probably occur to 6 you even if I didn't say anything. Do not permit anyone to 7 speak to or communicate with you on any topic connected with 8 this trial, and any attempt to do so should be reported to me. 9 Now, let me just give you what that encompasses. Obviously, 10 when you first think of it, you think of it as somebody that 11 has some contact with the case or some improper motive trying 12 to influence you or communicate with you. It covers that, but 13 it also covers absolutely everybody. We're talking your 14 husband, your child, your wife, the person that sells you a 15 lottery ticket on the way home, the person that rides on the 16 bus with you, whatever it happens to be. Don't let anybody 17 talk to you about this case and don't you talk to anybody 18 about this case. If you get home and your wife or your child 19 or your husband wants to know what you're doing: "I'm on a 20 jury case that involves the shooting at Standard Gravure and I 21 can't talk to you any more than that." 22 Another way somebody might communicate with you 23 is by the television set or the newspaper. Okay. And so what 24 I'm going to ask you to do is if you're watching the news and 25 you see this -- first of all, don't watch the news unless 176 1 you're a real news junkie and have to to exist, if you have to 2 do that, hit the mute button and turn it off when it comes on. 3 When you get the newspaper and you see anything about this 4 case, give it to your wife, have them cut out the part or if 5 you see the headline, we're not keeping anything from you. 6 You are going to know more about this case when it's over than 7 any newspaper man or newspaper woman. 8 The purpose of this is at the end of the case we 9 want 12 people who have made up their own mind; we don't want 10 somebody else telling you what's important and what's not 11 important. The newspaper people come and go. They stay for a 12 half a day and go and come back and they write about what they 13 thought they saw. And so you're your own self. Don't read 14 about it in the newspaper. Don't watch it on television. 15 That all comes out. Do not permit anyone to communicate with 16 you on any topic connected with this trial. 17 Another part of the admonition, perhaps not as 18 obvious but equally as important, do not discuss this case 19 even among yourselves. You-all are free to talk about how the 20 air-conditioning doesn't work in here, how long you've had to 21 wait, what your children are doing, how you wish there was a 22 baseball season, whatever it happens to be, but don't talk 23 about this case. And the reason for that is at the end of the 24 case we want 12 independent separate views of what went on. 25 And if you-all begin to talk about this case in any way before 177 1 it's over, it won't be 12 independent people; you'll be people 2 that are starting to influence themselves and that's not 3 supposed to happen till you get back to the jury room. 4 One other part of it. Don't form or express 5 opinions about this case until it is finally submitted to you. 6 What that's saying is keep an open mind. The evidence is 7 going to come in in a certain order, not necessarily the most 8 important evidence first. One of your jobs if you're selected 9 as a juror will be to decide the case based on all the 10 evidence treated equally. I think you can see, for example, 11 halfway through this case if you've made up your mind about 12 how it ought to come out or what it's all about. You wouldn't 13 give the evidence in the second half of the case the same 14 open-minded treatment that you gave the evidence in the first 15 half of the case. Do you see what I'm saying? So just keep 16 an open mind until the case is over. 17 With that admonition -- I'm losing my voice I've 18 been doing this all day -- with that admonition, I'm going to 19 ask you to go. Here are the questionnaires. Go back to the 20 jury pool room. It will take you, you know, 15 or 20 minutes. 21 The people are there to help you. Is there anybody that's got 22 a ride problem or anything like that, because we may stay a 23 little past 5:00. 24 JUROR NO. 111: Bobbie, 111. I don't have a 25 ride problem, but I need to make arrangements to pick up my 178 1 children from day-care. 2 JUDGE POTTER: There will be a phone there and 3 you can just ask them to use it. 4 We'll stand in recess still 9:00 tomorrow 5 morning. 6 (PROCEEDINGS TERMINATED THIS DATE AT 4:50 P.M.) 7 * * * 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 179 1 STATE OF KENTUCKY )( )( Sct. 2 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON )( 3 I, JULIA K. McBRIDE, Notary Public, State of 4 Kentucky at Large, hereby certify that the foregoing 5 Transcript of the Proceedings was taken at the time and place 6 stated in the caption; that the appearances were as set forth 7 in the caption; that said proceedings were taken down by me in 8 stenographic notes and thereafter reduced under my supervision 9 to the foregoing typewritten pages and that said typewritten 10 transcript is a true, accurate and complete record of my 11 stenographic notes so taken. 12 I further certify that I am not related by blood 13 or marriage to any of the parties hereto and that I have no 14 interest in the outcome of captioned case. 15 My commission as Notary Public expires 16 December 21, 1996. 17 Given under my hand this the__________day of 18 ______________________, 1994, at Louisville, Kentucky. 19 20 21 22 23 24 _____________________________ 25 NOTARY PUBLIC