1 1 NO. 90-CI-06033 JEFFERSON CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION ONE 2 3 4 JOYCE FENTRESS, et al PLAINTIFFS 5 6 VS TRANSCRIPT_OF_THE_PROCEEDINGS __________ __ ___ ___________ 7 8 9 SHEA COMMUNICATIONS, et al DEFENDANTS 10 11 *** 12 13 14 MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1994 15 VOLUME VI 16 17 * * * 18 19 20 _____________________________________________________________ 21 REPORTER: JULIA K. McBRIDE Coulter, Shay, McBride & Rice 22 1221 Starks Building 455 South Fourth Avenue 23 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 (502) 582-1627 24 FAX: (502) 587-6299 25 2 1 I_N_D_E_X _ _ _ _ _ 2 3 Bench Discussion......................................... 4 4 * * * 5 WITNESS: Angela Faye Bowman _______ 6 Examination by Mr. Smith................................. 8 7 Examination by Mr. Stopher............................... 50 8 Further Examination by Mr. Smith......................... 68 9 * * * 10 WITNESS: Paula N. Warman _______ 11 Examination by Mr. Smith................................. 70 12 Examination by Mr. Stopher...............................140 13 Further Examination by Mr. Smith.........................211 14 * * * 15 Meeting in Chambers......................................217 16 Reporter's Certificate...................................229 17 * * * 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 2 A_P_P_E_A_R_A_N_C_E_S _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: 4 PAUL L. SMITH 5 Suite 745 Campbell Center II 6 8150 North Central Expressway Dallas, Texas 75206 7 NANCY ZETTLER 8 1405 West Norwell Lane Schaumburg, Illinois 60193 9 IRVIN D. FOLEY 10 Rubin, Hays & Foley Third Floor South 11 First Trust Centre 200 South Fifth Street 12 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 13 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 14 EDWARD H. STOPHER 15 Boehl, Stopher & Graves 2300 Providian Center 16 Louisville, Kentucky 40202 17 JOE C. FREEMAN, JR. LAWRENCE J. MYERS 18 Freeman & Hawkins 4000 One Peachtree Center 19 303 Peachtree Street, N.E. Atlanta, Georgia 30308 20 21 ALSO PRESENT: 22 DR. W. LEIGH THOMPSON 23 24 25 4 1 The Transcript of the Proceedings, taken before 2 The Honorable John Potter in the Multipurpose Courtroom, Old 3 Jail Office Building, Louisville, Kentucky, commencing on 4 Monday, October 3, 1994, at approximately 9:35 A.M., said 5 proceedings occurred as follows: 6 7 * * * 8 9 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 10 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, we move to exclude any 11 evidence or mention of any opinions as to whether or not 12 Prozac made Mr. Wesbecker do what he did. Any opinions or 13 anecdotal information about the plaintiffs' use of Prozac or 14 members of their families that have used Prozac and any 15 opinions that they have as to whether or not Wesbecker was the 16 first or the last person that they expected to do these kinds 17 of acts. 18 JUDGE POTTER: I take it you're asking this 19 because this has come out on deposition. 20 MR. STOPHER: 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Smith? 22 MR. SMITH: We don't intend to elicit testimony 23 from any of our witnesses or any unqualified witness 24 concerning whether or not Prozac did or did not cause these 25 actions. We will, however, ask some witnesses whether or not 5 1 Joseph Wesbecker in their opinion was violent, whether he had 2 ever threatened them, whether or not any of the individuals 3 there at Standard Gravure would have ever dreamed that Joseph 4 Wesbecker would have done something like that. 5 JUDGE POTTER: What we're down to, Mr. Smith, I 6 think correctly so, is not planning to introduce any evidence 7 that my cousin took it and didn't have this problem or I've 8 taken it or I think Prozac caused him to do it. I think 9 correctly he can introduce evidence Mr. Wesbecker never 10 threatened me; I never saw him carry a gun. Observations; so 11 what we're down to now is whether or not a person can say, you 12 know, this is the last thing I would have ever expected of 13 Joe. How is that evidence going to come in and why, Mr. 14 Smith? 15 MR. SMITH: Well, primarily because they say 16 that he was violent, that he had this plan and malicious 17 intent for a long period of time. These people knew Joseph 18 Wesbecker, some for over 20 years and had constant or regular 19 or irregular dealings with him. And, certainly, I think they 20 can testify whether or not they believe he was a violent 21 individual, whether or not they ever expected him to do 22 anything of the nature which he did. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, addressing that 24 issue? 25 MR. STOPHER: Yes, sir. We have no objection to 6 1 the plaintiffs testifying I never heard him issue any threats, 2 I never saw him do anything violent, but their opinions, Your 3 Honor, these are laypeople, their opinions that they didn't 4 expect him to do this is tantamount to their saying that 5 something must have made him do it because he was not of this 6 nature. That is unqualified opinion testimony on critical 7 issues that are the subjects of expert testimony in this case. 8 We have no objection to the laypeople testifying about facts, 9 but we do have an objection to them testifying about opinions 10 as to what they expected out of his behavior. 11 JUDGE POTTER: The way I view it, I agree with 12 everything you said, but I do think laypeople -- just like 13 when laypeople testify he was drunk or he was upset. It is an 14 expert opinion, but it's the way laypeople describe certain 15 situations. I think Mr. Smith can ask -- how about this, Mr. 16 Smith. You ask them, "Did you ever observe anything in Mr. 17 Wesbecker that would have indicated to you that he might do 18 something like this," and they say no, and that's where it 19 ends. 20 MR. STOPHER: I have no objection to that. I 21 just have an objection to these long ramblings and opinions. 22 MR. SMITH: Well, I had intended to ask some 23 witnesses something of the nature: "Of the 150 pressmen 24 there, where would you put Joseph Wesbecker on the list of 25 individuals who might do this." 7 1 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I think that's getting 2 more to an expert opinion than even Mr. Stopher thought you 3 were going to get. 4 MR. STOPHER: You always go one step further. 5 MR. FREEMAN: Just push as hard as you can. 6 Give an inch, you'll take a mile. 7 JUDGE POTTER: But can you do it -- because I 8 think they are allowed to testify just as a layperson, I 9 didn't see him as -- I mean, I think if you ask them would you 10 consider him a violent person, did you ever see him do 11 anything that would indicate to you he was likely to be a mass 12 murderer; no, no. But to have them go into more detail, I 13 really think is getting into trying to get them to express an 14 expert opinion beyond he was speeding, he was drunk. We allow 15 laypeople to give shorthand opinions. 16 Okay. Do you need to talk with your first 17 witness? 18 MR. SMITH: No. 19 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 20 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Madame Sheriff, go ahead 21 and bring in the jurors. 22 SHERIFF CECIL: The jurors are now entering. 23 All jurors present, court is now in session. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Please be seated. Mr. Smith, do 25 you want to call your first witness. 8 1 MR. SMITH: Plaintiffs will first call Angela 2 Bowman, Your Honor. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Bowman, could I get you to 4 raise your right hand, please. You don't have to turn around. 5 6 ANGELA FAYE BOWMAN, after first being duly 7 sworn, testified and said as follows: 8 9 JUDGE POTTER: Would you please keep your voice 10 up and state your name for the jury, please. 11 MS. BOWMAN: My name is Angela Faye Bowman. 12 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, may I give her this 13 hand-held? 14 JUDGE POTTER: Sure. 15 16 EXAMINATION ___________ 17 18 BY_MR._SMITH: __ ___ ______ 19 Q. Would you state your name, please, ma'am. 20 A. My name is Angela Faye Bowman. 21 Q. How old of a lady are you, Ms. Bowman? 22 A. I'm 29 years old. 23 Q. And where do you live? 24 A. I live in Georgetown, Indiana. 25 Q. How long have you lived there, ma'am? 9 1 A. Around three years. Almost three years. 2 Q. Do you live in a house or an apartment? 3 A. In a house. 4 Q. Who lives there with you, Angela? 5 A. My husband, Doug, and my son, Bradley. 6 Q. What does your husband, Doug, do? 7 A. He works for a printing company in Louisville. 8 He works for a printing company that's in Louisville not 9 related to Standard Gravure. 10 Q. Is it in any way related to Standard Gravure? 11 A. No. 12 Q. What was his occupation on September 14th, 1989? 13 A. He was a plate maker at his company. 14 Q. And how long had he been doing that, Angela? 15 A. Since sometime in '87, mid '87. 16 Q. How old is Bradley? 17 A. Bradley's five. 18 Q. What is Bradley's birthday? 19 A. June 28th, 1989. 20 Q. So he would have been how old when this shooting 21 occurred? 22 A. Just a little over two months, around ten weeks 23 old. 24 Q. Angela, would you tell the jury generally where 25 you worked before you started working at Standard Gravure? 10 1 A. When I was in high school and attending college 2 part time I worked at a Fashion Shop store in New Albany. I 3 left there in '85, and went to The Courier-Journal newspaper, 4 and I left The Courier-Journal newspaper in April of 1988 to 5 work at Standard Gravure. 6 Q. What did you do at The Courier-Journal? 7 A. When I first started there I sold advertising 8 for a cable television station that The Courier-Journal had. 9 It was a news and advertising type station. And it disbanded 10 six or eight months after I got there, so I took a job in 11 classified advertising. I sold advertisements over the 12 telephone. 13 Q. And why did you leave The Courier-Journal to go 14 to Standard Gravure? 15 A. Well, I worked for The Courier-Journal under the 16 Binghams and I guess that was for about a year of the time 17 that I was there, and then the Gannett Corporation purchased 18 The Courier from the Binghams, and working conditions and 19 pay -- I worked on salary plus commission. Everything started 20 to change and the work got more and the salary got less, and I 21 wasn't very happy with it. 22 Q. Was it your understanding that the Binghams had 23 disposed of or were in the process of disposing of several of 24 their companies? 25 A. Yes. It was pretty well known at the time that 11 1 there was dissension in their family and they had decided to 2 sell all of their companies. 3 Q. And so how did you get the job at Standard 4 Gravure? 5 A. Well, like I said, I was unhappy and I read the 6 classifieds every Sunday, and then one Sunday night I was 7 reading them and there was a job at Standard for an estimator. 8 And I read it and it sounded like something I had the 9 knowledge to do, so I just went over that Monday morning and 10 applied for it. 11 Q. And you actually started on April 1st, 1988? 12 A. April 4th, 1988. 13 Q. Who was your immediate supervisor, Angela? 14 A. Jim Mitchell. 15 Q. And did he continue to be your immediate 16 supervisor throughout your employment at Standard Gravure? 17 A. Yes, he was. 18 Q. What did your job as an estimator with Standard 19 Gravure entail? 20 A. Well, actually I was a junior estimator and 21 sales secretary. We would get information from clients about 22 a job they were considering printing or that was about to be 23 printed, et cetera, et cetera, and we would take all the 24 details, like the size of the book and the pages and the 25 colors and all this, and we would present an estimate to them 12 1 of what the job would cost. Or sometimes we would do, like, a 2 company would send their whole projections for the next year 3 and we would estimate every job they were going to do in a 4 year, and then we would see which jobs we got out of it. And 5 I also typed up estimates and correspondence from the salesmen 6 that went out when the secretaries were backed up. 7 Q. How many estimators were there? 8 A. Just two, a senior estimator and myself, the 9 junior estimator. 10 Q. Were you still a junior estimator in September 11 1989? 12 A. Yes, I was. 13 Q. What other duties did you have in September of 14 '89? 15 A. Well, from the beginning of my job, from the 16 time I started there in April -- the junior estimator and 17 sales secretary were the main part of my job, but from eight 18 to nine o'clock every morning I had to take my folders of work 19 to the lobby and answer the lobby phones, because the lobby 20 receptionist worked nine to six but some of the customers, 21 different time zones and such, might call early. So they 22 liked for the phones to be manned -- the long-distance phones 23 and stuff from eight to nine. So I did my regular job, but I 24 went to a different area to work. 25 Q. Did you have any type of orientation period at 13 1 Standard Gravure where you saw the operation there and the 2 premises? 3 A. Yes. When I started on April 4th of '88, it was 4 a Monday, and I spent that week being toured throughout the 5 plant, the pressroom, the engraving room, the paper -- where 6 they stored paper just to let me know the process that a book 7 went through from beginning to end. 8 Q. Did you observe the conditions in the pressroom, 9 Angela? 10 A. Well, I was there for two afternoons and I saw 11 what it was like. 12 Q. Can you generally describe to the jury what the 13 situation was there in the pressroom? 14 A. Well, the pressroom was sort of familiar to me 15 because at The Courier-Journal on the second floor in 16 advertising where I worked, we had a glassed-in area that you 17 could watch the newspaper presses run, and they bring like 18 school children and stuff to tour the building and they would 19 watch the presses from this area, so I saw that all the time. 20 And I had an idea of what a pressroom looked like, so it was 21 kind of familiar to me. It's -- I mean, it's like sort of in 22 the guts, I guess, of the building and, you know, it's kind of 23 messy because the inks and the stuff is spilling all the time. 24 I mean, it's not like this. 25 Q. Is it noisy? 14 1 A. Yeah. It's noisy. Most people I think wear 2 earplugs I think when they're in there. 3 Q. Who took you on the tour of the pressroom? 4 A. Well, my supervisor sent me down with various 5 people, but I remember Mike Campbell and Kay Back showed me 6 around most of the time that I remember. 7 Q. When you were there in early April 1988, did you 8 observe any kind of arguments or violent behavior in that 9 pressroom? 10 A. No. They never argued in front of me. 11 Q. Did you ever return to the pressroom after that 12 first orientation from time to time? 13 A. No. From my understanding, you had to be pretty 14 much authorized to be in the pressroom to be -- I mean, they 15 didn't want people going in and out out of the machines, and I 16 never had a reason to go down there. 17 Q. Up to September 14th, 1989, did you ever hear of 18 any fights occurring in the pressroom between employees down 19 there? 20 A. No. I never heard of any fights. 21 Q. Did you ever have any situations where there 22 were pressmen or people working in the press area that would 23 come up to the third floor and make complaints about the 24 condition in the pressroom? 25 A. They wouldn't have made complaints to me; it 15 1 wasn't my business. 2 Q. I understand that. But did you ever overhear 3 that? 4 A. No. You'd sometimes see a pressman in the third 5 floor going toward human resources and, I mean, they had to 6 pick up medical forms, insurance forms and all that kind of 7 stuff there. I never asked them what their business was. I 8 would just say hello. 9 Q. Did you ever hear anyone there expressing any 10 loud noise or being upset or anything of that nature? 11 A. No. I never heard that. 12 Q. Now, you worked on the third floor, did you tell 13 us? 14 A. Yes, sir. I worked on the third floor. 15 Q. All right. Is that an office-type area? 16 A. Most of it is. There is a print shop conveyer 17 area, but there were doors enclosing the office area, and 18 that's where I spent most of my time. 19 Q. Could you hear the sounds of the bindery area or 20 engraving area or did they have pretty well soundproof doors? 21 A. Sometimes you could hear hums, but it was pretty 22 soundproof. It was pretty much like an office. 23 Q. Did you like your job, Angela? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What did you like about your job at Standard 16 1 Gravure? 2 A. Well, when I worked at The Courier, it was very 3 tied down because I had to answer the phones and be there all 4 the time, and so you had to report where you were every 5 instant, and I mean, you couldn't go to the bathroom unless 6 somebody knew and was there to relieve you. And it was a lot 7 more relaxed because all I had to do at Standard was my job. 8 You know, if I had to go to the bathroom, that was fine. If I 9 wanted to get a drink, that was fine. As long as I did my 10 job, you know, there was nothing. 11 Q. As far as the office area was concerned, was 12 that a tense place to work, high-stress area? 13 A. Oh, no. 14 Q. Your immediate supervisor was Mr. Jim Mitchell, 15 did you say? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Did you know Mr. Michael Shea? 18 A. Yes, I did. 19 Q. Did Mr. Michael Shea ever put any pressure on 20 you? 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. Did you ever have any kind of comments or 23 discussions with Mr. Shea? 24 A. Yeah. He always spoke if you passed him in the 25 hall. He was friendly. And a couple of times I had to go to 17 1 his office to explain things in quotes or something that we 2 had done. 3 Q. And how did he treat you on that occasion? 4 A. Very professional. 5 Q. Did he ever tell you anything about there were 6 two rules there at Standard Gravure; Rule Number One was 7 profit, Rule Number Two was remember Rule Number One? 8 A. He never told me that. 9 Q. Did he ever fuss at you about anything, Angela? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Tell us about that. 12 A. Well, I was almost always to work by five till 13 eight because I had to be in the lobby at eight, and he -- he 14 hardly ever came in before nine o'clock on the days he was in 15 the office. But one morning I got caught in traffic and I got 16 there about ten after eight, and lo and behold, he was there. 17 And he just came out and told me that the phones had been 18 ringing and asked me what had happened. And I explained to 19 him that I had been caught in traffic, and he just said that 20 he wanted to make sure that wasn't the norm, that I didn't 21 always get there this time because he wasn't there really to 22 know, and that I understood the importance of the phones being 23 answered in the mornings. And I said I did, and that was the 24 end of it. 25 Q. Did he ever treat you -- berate you or anything 18 1 of that nature? 2 A. Oh, no. 3 Q. As I understand it, your son was born in June 4 1989. Did you have maternity leave, Angela? 5 A. Yes, I did. I had eight weeks of maternity 6 leave. 7 Q. And what eight weeks would that have been? 8 A. I started five days before Bradley was born, on 9 June 23rd, and I went back to work on August 28th, 1989. 10 Q. Was that a paid maternity leave? 11 A. Yes, it was. 12 Q. So how long had you been working before you got 13 shot, Angela? 14 A. I started in April of '88, so I had been there a 15 year and a half. 16 Q. And then you had the maternity leave, and you 17 had been working, what, 18 days before this incident occurred? 18 A. Whatever that adds up to. I'm not sure. 19 Q. I don't remember how many days there are in 20 August. Did you have a baby-sitter for Bradley? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. Tell the jury what you did before you got to 23 work the morning of September 14th, 1989. 24 A. Well, I got up and got ready for work and I took 25 Bradley to the baby-sitter's. I lived in Greenville at the 19 1 time of the shooting, and she was about two miles from my 2 house, and I dropped him off. And it was a Thursday, and my 3 husband gets paid on Thursday morning. He works third shift, 4 but he doesn't make it home before I left for work. So on 5 Thursdays we always met at a truck stop that was about -- near 6 his way home and on my way to work, just right on the highway, 7 so he could give me his check and I could put it in the bank 8 at lunchtime. So I met him that morning at the truck stop. I 9 mean, I never got out of my car or anything. He would just be 10 waiting there and he'd bring the check and put it in the 11 window. 12 Q. He doesn't even get to take his check home with 13 him? 14 A. No, not then. So then I just drove to work. 15 And my boss, Jim Mitchell, was in Dallas for a trade show or 16 something that week, so I knew that his parking space would be 17 empty; and the secretary with more seniority than me was on 18 vacation, so we were allowed to use his spot if he was gone. 19 So I didn't have to park down the street at the lot that, I 20 guess, was owned by The Courier that we paid for. I parked 21 right at the building in Jim's spot. And I walked up onto the 22 loading dock and down the loading dock area, which is kind of 23 open but it's part of the building, it's like a raised 24 sidewalk along the building. And I went all the way down and 25 got on the freight elevator and took the freight elevator up 20 1 to the third floor. 2 MR. SMITH: All right. Let's -- we have a 3 diagram of that third floor. May I approach the witness, Your 4 Honor, in order to show the diagram? 5 JUDGE POTTER: Certainly. Certainly. 6 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 7 MR. SMITH: We had premarked it as -- 8 JUDGE POTTER: We can change the number on it 9 for people to keep their stuff straight. 10 MR. STOPHER: Why don't we mark it for the 11 moment as Defendant's Exhibit 200? 12 MR. SMITH: Do you have a sticker? 13 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 14 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell 15 you we're still fiddling with our sound system. Are you able 16 to hear everybody all right? 17 MR. FITCH: I have a little problem with him; 18 her, I hear fine. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, is your microphone on 20 there at the podium? See if there isn't a button on the back 21 of your microphone there. 22 MR. SMITH: Well, it's turned to "on." I'll 23 talk a little louder. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Go ahead, Mr. Smith. And just 25 we'll mark it with Mr. Stopher -- we'll mark it later. 21 1 Q. Angela, since you're the first witness, we may 2 be fumbling a little bit; hopefully, we'll get the 3 presentation down smoother. This is an exhibit that we've 4 marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 30 right now. We're going to 5 change -- can you roll over a little bit this way so we can 6 get the -- this is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 30 at this time. Can 7 you identify what that is, Angela? 8 A. That's a diagram of the third floor. 9 Q. All right. And is the third floor where you 10 worked? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And is it the office area? 13 A. This shows other areas, too, but this is the 14 office area. 15 Q. All right. Show the jury where the office area 16 is, where the bindery is and things of that nature. 17 A. This would be bindery, and there's double doors 18 coming in here into the office and then this is, I guess, 19 conveyors and print shop it was called, and this is a door 20 coming into the office. 21 Q. Where is your office, Angela? 22 A. My office was right there. My desk sat here and 23 there were two other ladies also in the office. Their desks 24 were over here. 25 Q. You say you took an elevator, the freight 22 1 elevator up? 2 A. This was the freight elevator. 3 Q. Is that the elevator you took? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And does that come from the basement or the 6 first floor, that elevator that you took up? 7 A. I don't know. I think it went to the basement, 8 but I got on it on what was called the one, walk-in level. 9 Q. Ground level, maybe? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. All right. So, again, what time did you get 12 there? 13 A. It was a few minutes before eight, so maybe five 14 till. 15 Q. Show the jury generally what your path was that 16 morning when you got to work. I believe you say you started 17 here? 18 A. Yeah. So I came off this elevator and there's 19 two double doors here, so I went in this door and in this door 20 and I came down this hallway. Then I went back to my office, 21 this hallway and went to my desk. And I got a folder that I 22 needed to work on, my coffee cup off my desk, and I came 23 around this way and I went into the women's rest room door to 24 rinse my coffee cup out. And when I did, I came right back 25 out to this little table here where the coffee pot sat, and I 23 1 poured a cup of coffee, and then I walked back out this way 2 and all the way down here to the front lobby desk right here. 3 Q. Was there anybody there in the office area that 4 you remember seeing that morning, Angela? 5 A. I could hear people working and stuff. In my 6 side, there was hardly anything. Robin was out of town, the 7 secretary that's here didn't come in till eight-thirty. The 8 only other person on this whole hallway that came in at eight, 9 like me, was Brenda, and she was on vacation. So I didn't see 10 anybody over on this side, but the hall lights were on. 11 Q. And was the coffee made? 12 A. Yes. When I went down this hallway, Jo Anne's 13 light was on. I didn't go in. I just said good morning. 14 Q. Who is that? 15 A. Payroll clerk. 16 Q. Last name? 17 A. Self. 18 Q. Then what did you do? 19 A. I said, "Good morning, Jo Anne," and kept on 20 walking. Put my coffee on the desk, put my purse under the 21 desk and started answering the phone. This is like a Formica 22 counter top. This would be the front part of the desk. The 23 counter top. There kind of was a desk top inside there. I 24 was sitting right in here. 25 Q. Angela, is there a raised portion there in front 24 1 of the desk? 2 A. Yeah. There's like a level that you work on 3 like a regular desk, but it's like when you go into these 4 buildings how they have like a high counter so, I mean, my 5 head was sitting probably -- well, my eyes were above it, but 6 it was probably this tall and it had like a guest register 7 book. The elevator was straight in front of me, so they just 8 walked straight to that. 9 Q. But as you sat at your desk, could you see over 10 this raised front portion? 11 A. Oh, yeah. Sitting you could still see the 12 elevators and the chairs and the display case. 13 Q. Point out the elevator that went to the third 14 floor. 15 A. Right there. 16 Q. Is that the elevator that Joseph Wesbecker came 17 off of, Angela? 18 A. Yes, it is. 19 Q. Okay. So what occurred after you sat down? 20 A. I started answering the phones, and I remember 21 George, one of our out-of-town salesmen kept calling because 22 he was supposed to be meeting Mike Shea in Troy, Michigan, at 23 the Kmart headquarters and George was a little frantic and 24 confused most of the time. He was a high-strung-type guy, and 25 he was confused on where they were meeting. He had forgotten 25 1 where he had told Mike he would meet him and he kept calling 2 and saying, "Has he called in and if he calls in I forgot 3 where I'm supposed to meet him or if I'm supposed to go 4 straight to Kmart or what I'm doing and if he calls, call me 5 here." And he called back in about five minutes, and he says, 6 "Has he called in yet," and I said, "No, George. I'll call 7 you if he calls." 8 Q. Were there other calls other than George? 9 A. Oh, yeah. 10 Q. That you recall? 11 A. I'm sure there were. There was every morning, 12 but I don't remember. 13 Q. And did you record those calls on a pad? 14 A. Yeah. I always did. 15 Q. And did you say Mr. Shea was out of town? 16 A. Yeah. Because he was in Troy, Michigan, with 17 George. 18 Q. During that first 15- or 20-minute period, were 19 you aware of anybody else -- any office personnel coming in, 20 Angela? 21 A. Yeah. A lot of the office personnel came up the 22 front elevator because that was one of the shortest ways from 23 the paid parking lot that they -- we parked in. 24 Q. So the employees would have used this elevator 25 to gain access into the office area? 26 1 A. A lot of them. 2 Q. Was this the -- if customers would come or 3 something of that nature, was this the manner in which they 4 would usually arrive at the offices? 5 A. Yes. Because our door -- our address was really 6 643 South Sixth and our main door was on Sixth Street. This 7 area that a lot of us came into the back, the Armory side, was 8 more like a loading dock, you know, not like the entrance for 9 people, like just where people that would know what they were 10 doing would go because there's a lot of tracks to go around 11 and so... 12 Q. All right. And so even though the front door 13 was on the first floor, the main entrance of the public area 14 of this company was up on the third floor where you were? 15 A. Yeah. Because when you came in the door off the 16 street -- 17 Q. Yes, ma'am. 18 A. -- there was -- it was just like a foyer, and 19 there was the elevator and a stairwell door, but they kept the 20 stairwell door locked so that people would come up the 21 elevator. They had no choice once you're in the lobby but to 22 come up the lobby. 23 Q. Did that elevator stop at the second floor or 24 did it go directly from the first to the third floor? 25 A. It would stop at the second floor, but if you 27 1 got off at the second floor you were in another enclosed area 2 and the door to the stairwell again was locked, and then the 3 door into the work area had a combination lock on it. 4 Q. What time was that door on the first floor 5 usually opened in the mornings? 6 A. Right before 8:00 when we started arriving, 7 because if I got to work too early it would be locked and I 8 would have to walk down the street further and go around to 9 the back or go back up to The Courier-Journal and go through 10 their building. 11 Q. Approximately how many employees came in, 12 Angela, during that first 15- or 20-minute period of time? 13 A. Three or four, I guess. 14 Q. Then what happened next? 15 A. Sharon came in at 8:30. 16 Q. Who is Sharon? 17 A. Sharon Needy, the regular receptionist that did 18 the job from nine to six, that was her post area. And she 19 never came in before nine and she rode the bus so she was 20 never early to work, so I was real surprised when she got 21 there at 8:30. And I said, "What in the world are you doing 22 here," and she said, "Well, I've got to go to the dentist 23 today at lunch, so I asked Pat if I could come in and work 24 extra so if my appointment takes long I won't be out the 25 time." And they had, you know, they told her that was fine. 28 1 So she said, "Do you care if I go get some coffee before I 2 start?" And I said, "No problem," because I figured I was 3 going to be there till nine anyway. It was earlier from what 4 I expected, so I didn't mind the wait, really. 5 Q. And what happened after that, she went and got 6 coffee, did you remain at the desk? 7 A. Yeah. And while she was gone, Kathy Wilkins 8 came by. Kathy worked in purchasing, back in here, right here 9 is her desk. And she had come by like ten after eight and 10 said that some of the 8:00 girls were getting breakfast from 11 The Courier-Journal cafeteria. We didn't have one in our 12 building. She asked if I wanted anything and I asked her to 13 get me an order of wheat toast. So right after Sharon left to 14 get her coffee, Kathy came down this hallway, straight down 15 this way because she would have come from out here. This was 16 the bridge to The Courier-Journal. And she came down and 17 handed me my toast and Sharon was coming back, so she stood 18 there and waited for me. 19 Q. Where was Kathy standing? 20 A. Well, this doorway going into here, she had 21 passed it and she was kind of standing outside the doorway to 22 Pat's office, where you wouldn't see her really from the 23 lobby, but you could see her because I was almost to the 24 doorway. I could see that she was waiting there, and I guess 25 she figured we'd just walk back together because I was leaving 29 1 the desk. 2 Q. Angela, I'm going to hand you another exhibit we 3 made that is a blowup of -- 4 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, I object to that 5 statement. 6 Q. Can you identify that? 7 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 8 MR. STOPHER: I object to the statement that 9 this is an exhibit that they've made. We've been over this 10 before. This is an exhibit that the defendants made and it is 11 a defendant's exhibit. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 13 MR. SMITH: Well, we blew it up. 14 MR. STOPHER: I know you blew it up, but I made 15 it. 16 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to tell the jury that 17 these exhibits were made by the defendant, you're allowing 18 them to use them, they're going to be renumbered. And one 19 other thing, Mr. Smith, I assume you're going to pass copies 20 out to the jury? 21 MR. SMITH: Yes. 22 JUDGE POTTER: When you get ready to do that, 23 just ask and give them to my sheriff and let her pass them out 24 to the jury. 25 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 30 1 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, along with 2 the sound system and a few other things that we're going to 3 get working a little better, I think, didn't I, when I was 4 introducing you-all to this case, I mentioned that no one 5 owned any evidence, that one witness could be good for one 6 side or bad for the other side regardless of who called that 7 witness. And the parties have each prepared certain exhibits 8 and diagrams and whatnot, and one side can use the other 9 side's exhibits. And this particular exhibit was prepared by 10 Eli Lilly, and so it's going to be renumbered to show that 11 they prepared it. But as far as one side or the other using 12 it, both sides will use it; that's why we've got a little 13 confusion about who prepared something or how it's numbered. 14 But, again, I'm going to tell you the same thing about 15 exhibits the same thing I told you about a witness. No one 16 owns a witness, the evidence that a witness produces, and 17 you-all will have to decide, you know, how it fits into the 18 puzzle and not say automatically because this person 19 introduced it or this person created it or this person called 20 that witness it must reflect one way or the other on the case. 21 Do you understand what what I'm saying? 22 With that background, please proceed, Mr. Smith. 23 Q. Angela, I'm going to hand you a document that is 24 a blowup of Exhibit 30, to show more detail of the area where 25 you were when you were shot. Does that accurately represent 31 1 the reception area? 2 A. Uh-huh. Yes, it does. 3 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, we have copies of this 4 exhibit. 5 JUDGE POTTER: If you'll hand them to my 6 sheriff, she'll distribute them to the jury. 7 MR. SMITH: How would you like to refer to this 8 exhibit at this time? 9 JUDGE POTTER: How about the third-floor 10 reception area? 11 (To the jury) Have you-all got another folder 12 this morning with your name on it? Okay. I think you can 13 guess what that's for. 14 Q. Angela, explain to the jury what this exhibit is 15 that they have in their hand. 16 A. This is the third floor and this is pretty much 17 the office area, but I don't see the other stuff on here. 18 Q. Where would your -- does this show your office 19 that you normally occupied? 20 A. Yeah. Right here would be my desk. 21 Q. Okay. And where is the reception -- point to 22 the jury where the reception area is so they can get it 23 oriented. 24 A. Right there. 25 Q. All right. So did Ms. Needy come back then, to 32 1 continue with what occurred? 2 A. Yes. She was coming back the hall and Kathy was 3 waiting right about here for me, and I stood up, I had my 4 purse on my arm and my folder in that arm, and in the other 5 hand I had my coffee cup. And the toast was on a little round 6 plate, so I just set it on top of the coffee cup, and I was 7 beginning to step away. And Sharon was standing right here at 8 the end of the lobby desk. 9 Q. You need to raise that up a little bit if you 10 can, Angela, so the jury will know. 11 A. Right here at the end of the lobby desk, and she 12 had her arm on the end of the lobby desk just waiting for me 13 to get out of the way for her to get in; it didn't have enough 14 room. 15 So I stood up and I started to step toward the 16 door, and I said, "Oh, by the way, George keeps calling in and 17 he's all wound up because he's not sure where he's supposed to 18 meet Mike. This is the number where George is; if Mike calls, 19 please call him right away." And then I was getting ready to 20 go and I heard the elevator doors open, and I stopped to look 21 to see who it was. 22 Q. Tell the jury what happened when the elevator 23 doors opened, Angela. 24 A. Well, I was standing sideways because I was 25 going to step through this door going out to the hall, and I 33 1 looked back -- the elevator would be like right behind here 2 and Sharon was at the end, and we both looked -- just like the 3 elevator is here, I guess you just look, I don't know. 4 Q. Would Sharon have been to your right or to your 5 left as you were looking toward the elevator? 6 A. I'm standing here, I look toward the elevator 7 and Sharon was right there. I mean, like this distance from 8 me. She was right exactly here, right at the end of this desk 9 and I'm standing -- 10 Q. Behind the desk? 11 A. -- behind the desk. 12 Q. Okay. Go ahead, Angela. Take your time. 13 A. Well, the elevator doors opened and we both 14 looked back, and he was just standing in the elevator when it 15 opened. And we couldn't see the gun because it was on his 16 right arm, but he was carrying a gym bag over top of it, like 17 -- it was one of the round type with handles but he wasn't 18 holding the handdles; it was just on his arm, just like he was 19 carrying it. But immediately both of us -- I know Sharon 20 knew, I sensed something was wrong. 21 Q. Why, Angela? 22 A. He just looked so weird, you know, at first I 23 thought -- his face was all crunched up and his eyes were 24 squinted, and at first I thought he had a stocking or 25 something on his head like when you rob a place, then I 34 1 realized I could see shininess on his head, so it couldn't be 2 something like that. 3 Q. You mean a woman's stocking over his head? 4 A. Yeah. Like in a movie. He was all scrunched up 5 and his eyes were squinted, and he started walking over off 6 the elevator without saying something. It's not like he 7 stepped, did this, did that. This is constant motion. But 8 he's walking toward us and takes the gym bag handles and the 9 gun's right there. And she screamed as soon as she saw the 10 gun, and I couldn't react; I just stood there. I was still 11 standing sideways. I didn't run, I didn't move. And she 12 screamed, and as the bag fell, he just started firing across 13 us and her body -- he hit her first because she was on this 14 side and he went across this way. And her body just flew and 15 hit the wall and slid down, and as I noticed she was flying 16 and then I just flew. I mean, it was like it just blew me 17 over, and I landed down behind the desk with my head almost 18 underneath the back part of the desk by the trash can, and he 19 kept -- he kept going and he walked over us, between us, 20 because we flew apart. And he stood in that doorway that 21 looked down these halls, he stood right here in this door. 22 This door that's on this doorway was never closed as long as I 23 worked there. It was just a big wooden door, it was left open 24 between there. I never saw that door closed. 25 Q. Angela, if you look at this diagram, where would 35 1 Sharon have been? 2 A. She was standing there and it flew her right 3 over here against this wall, and I'm now laying down here with 4 my head almost up in this corner and my feet out this way 5 toward where Sharon was standing. 6 Q. By the time you were down, Angela, how many 7 shots had been fired? 8 A. Oh, God. It's so -- I wasn't counting shots, 9 but there was like two or three at her and two or three at me, 10 just across the room. 11 Q. Were you looking at him when he shot you? 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. What was his appearance when he shot you, 14 Angela? 15 A. Just distorted. He doesn't look mad; he just 16 looked not human. 17 Q. Did he appear that he was aiming at you? 18 A. It didn't really appear that he was aiming at 19 me, but it appeared that he meant to shoot me. He didn't, 20 like, go like this at me (indicating), but, I mean, he didn't 21 mean to not shoot me, I'm sure. 22 Q. How far away from you was he when he shot you? 23 A. About the distance you are from me. 24 Q. How far away was he from Sharon Needy when he 25 shot her? 36 1 A. About the same because, see, he's walking as 2 he's shooting and he got her first and he took more steps as 3 he was shooting me, so he was about that distance. And then 4 he took a couple steps more and shot me, so he was about the 5 same distance from each of us when he shot us because he just 6 kept -- he didn't stop. He just kept going. 7 Q. How many times were you shot? 8 A. Well, I was only shot once, but because I was 9 standing sideways, the bullet went in this side and came out 10 this side. And it went all the way through my middle and 11 they, like, get bigger, so my hole over here looked like a 12 little golf putt thing, like you drop a golf ball in, but 13 where it came out, once I could see the wound later in the 14 hospital, it was like you could put two big fists down into my 15 back. 16 Q. So he shot you and you're laying down? 17 A. And he's stepping. And he stopped right here in 18 this doorway and I can't see his head or his face, but I see 19 his butt and the back of his shoes, so he was, like, in the 20 doorway itself. 21 Q. Okay. And what did he do then, Angela? 22 A. He turned down this hall and he fired shots. He 23 just turned his body and I could hear pop, pop, pop, pop, pop; 24 and then he turned his body this way, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. 25 Q. Where would that be on this blowup exhibit? Is 37 1 that -- did you see him point that way? 2 A. He was in this doorway. He points this way and 3 shoots, then he turns his body and faces this way and shoots. 4 Q. But he's standing there at the doorway and just 5 goes from one hall to the other hall? 6 A. He didn't go back and forth. He shot down this 7 hall, and he turned and he shot down this hall. 8 Q. Then what happened? 9 A. Then he started running. 10 Q. Which way? 11 A. He ran straight down this hall, this black mark, 12 he ran. As he was running, he wasn't shooting. I was just 13 hearing running. 14 Q. You could hear his steps? 15 A. (Nods head affirmatively). 16 Q. What kind of shoes was he wearing; do you 17 remember? 18 A. A soft-sole-type shoe. I don't know if it was 19 necessarily a tennis shoe, but I remember it had a rubbery- 20 type sole. 21 Q. All right. 22 A. And after he ran, then I hear more pops like 23 maybe six or seven, a few. 24 Q. Were you and Ms. Needy there -- are you all 25 right? 38 1 A. I'm fine. 2 Q. Were you and Ms. Needy there alone? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did you say anything to Ms. Needy or did you 5 hear Ms. Needy say anything? 6 A. At that point I wasn't saying a word. I wasn't 7 saying a thing. 8 Q. Did you hear Ms. Needy say anything? 9 A. Not at this point. She did later. 10 Q. Continue. 11 A. So after I heard those pops, I could hear him 12 running back. I knew he was coming back to where we were. 13 And he ran in the doorway, he ran over to the area where he 14 dropped that bag. After -- I couldn't see him then. I saw 15 him run through. And I thought he came back to shoot us more, 16 so I tried to pretend to be dead. So I didn't say nothing. I 17 didn't move and I didn't look up. And I saw his feet coming 18 back, and he turned towards Sharon and his feet were pointing 19 toward her and the gun was kind of hanging in his arm. 20 Q. Could you see the gun? 21 A. I could see the bottom part of it. I was laying 22 flat, but I was looking through my eyelashes so it looks like 23 my eyes were closed, but I could see through the hairs in my 24 eyelashes because I wanted to know where he went to. And his 25 feet were that way, and he turned toward me and the barrel was 39 1 just hanging. I could see the bottom of the barrel and from 2 here down to his legs. 3 Q. Had he picked the gym bag up by that time? 4 A. He went to the bag, but I didn't know whether he 5 picked it up or not because I didn't look at him. 6 Q. The desk would have been between you and where 7 the gym bag was? 8 A. I knew he went through there because I was lying 9 on the floor. I couldn't see that part no more behind the 10 desk. I could see Sharon's feet across the carpet. And when 11 he turned back around there, I thought he was going to shoot 12 me in the head because I could see that thing and he was just 13 over me. 14 Q. Did you see his eyes or his face? 15 A. No. I didn't look up at him; I pretended to be 16 dead and looked through my eyelashes. And he was there, but 17 it seemed like it was forever. And I was waiting for my head 18 to be blown off or something. So I didn't open my eyes or 19 nothing, but I screamed, "Please don't kill me, I have a 20 baby." Then he turned his feet -- I saw his feet turn toward 21 that door, and he grabbed that door and he just slammed it. 22 And I heard -- I could hear footsteps for a minute of him 23 running and then I never heard a thing. It was so dead 24 silent. 25 Q. Angela, did you know Joe Wesbecker? 40 1 A. No. 2 Q. Had you ever seen him before? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Had you ever done anything to Joe Wesbecker? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Had you ever heard of any threats Joe Wesbecker 7 made? 8 A. No. 9 Q. All right. So what happened next? He slammed 10 the door. 11 A. He slammed the door and then I could hear -- 12 Q. But your feet had been in the front of the door 13 here? 14 A. No. Because I fell at a slant. My head was 15 this way and my feet were out this way, so when the door 16 angles in it cleared it. My feet were out here where Sharon 17 would have been standing. My feet were in a doorway but not 18 in a doorway of the doorway. So it was just so quiet and I 19 thought, "He's gone." So I didn't know -- not knowing who he 20 was, I didn't know who was with him or what was going on. And 21 so I said to Sharon, "Is there anybody out in the lobby, 22 Sharon; is there anybody else out there," because her feet 23 were there but I knew her head had to be able to see because I 24 couldn't see her head. She didn't answer me. And I said, 25 "Sharon, is there anybody out there." And she started saying 41 1 "Oh, God, I thought it was a joke." And she said it, like, 2 five or six times. And I -- I said Sharon, and she just kept 3 saying that and she didn't say nothing else. 4 Q. What did you do next? 5 A. Well, I thought, "I've got to call my husband 6 for help." And so I said, "I got to get the phone, I got to 7 get the phone." And so I got up and I was going to get up to 8 get the phone, but I couldn't feel my legs, and when I went to 9 sit up I couldn't sit up, so I tried again. I tried getting 10 over on my elbow and pushing up and my arm kept sliding and I 11 couldn't grab the chair and pull up on it. And I said, "Oh, 12 I'm getting tired. What's wrong," and I looked down and there 13 was just blood everywhere. I was -- that rolling chair was on 14 one of those plastic things and it was just everywhere. And 15 so I grabbed the cords. There were just all these cords under 16 the desk. I knew one of them had to be the phone cord, so I 17 just started pulling and yanking and pulling, and then I 18 looked up and realized there was nowhere for the phone to come 19 back there; I was pulling to the back and it wasn't going to 20 fall down, so I just kept trying to get up. And it was so 21 quiet. I kept calling for somebody to come help us. Nobody 22 came. 23 Q. Did you hear any more shots? 24 A. No. After that door slammed I never heard 25 another thing. 42 1 Q. So did anybody ever come in? 2 A. Well, then I kept calling for help and nobody 3 would come, and then I heard the voice of a salesman I worked 4 for, and it was muffled. I couldn't tell what he was saying, 5 but it didn't sound like a frantic -- he wasn't screaming or 6 anything. So I said, "Bob. Bob." At the top of my lungs I 7 cried for him to come. And so he opened the door, he opened 8 that door and he looked just -- like he looked to where I was 9 usually sitting in the chair, and then he looked down on the 10 floor and his eyes got real big and he slammed the door back 11 and ran away. 12 Q. What was Bob's name? 13 A. Bob Henschel. And I screamed, "Bob, come back." 14 And he didn't come. And then in a minute I heard him come 15 back, and he was hollering at me through the wall. He thought 16 the person was out there with me or something, and he screamed 17 "I called for help. I called for help." And I said, "Come 18 stay with me. Please come stay with me," because I kept 19 thinking -- this whole time all I'm thinking is if this guy 20 came in this door he's got to go back out this door. And I 21 thought he was going to come back and shoot me again. So I 22 wanted somebody to stay with me because I couldn't move and I 23 couldn't get away. And so he came and sat down with me and 24 just like almost as soon as he sat down, the elevator doors 25 opened and he jumped up. I think he was afraid. And it was a 43 1 policeman. And I guess the policeman thought he was -- 2 Q. This elevator door? 3 A. Yes. -- after us, because I remember Bob 4 screamed, "Oh, God, it's not me. It's not me." And then the 5 policeman came around. 6 Q. Have you got any idea, Angela, how much time 7 elapsed between the time you were shot and the time the 8 policemen arrived? 9 A. I was shot at 8:37, I know because I looked at 10 the clock. 11 Q. Why had you looked at the clock, you mean right 12 before you got shot? 13 A. I looked at the clock as I was stepping away 14 because I had this breakfast that Kathy brought me, and I was 15 going to stop in the rest room lounge or somewhere and just go 16 on and eat and go to the bathroom, so I looked back and 17 thought it's 8:37, so I would know how long I was taking. I 18 didn't want to take too long. 19 Q. So about what time was it that the policemen 20 came? 21 A. I believe they got there around 8:50 or 8:51. I 22 never called for help and we were the first people shot, and, 23 so, I guess people after us called for help. 24 Q. Did you have any other conversations with Sharon 25 Needy, Angela? 44 1 A. No. (Shakes head negatively). She never spoke 2 again. 3 Q. I beg your pardon? 4 A. She never spoke again. 5 Q. What did the policeman do? 6 A. He started asking me who did this. I said, "I 7 don't know." And then he said, "Where did he go," and I said, 8 "I don't know. He went through that door." Then he called on 9 his radio for ambulances and backups. He said, "I've got two 10 women down on the third floor offices at Standard Gravure." 11 Q. Were you in pain? Were you still conscious at 12 this time? 13 A. I was conscious, but my body kept wanting to 14 pass out. And I hurt all over. I was just sick all over. 15 Thought I was going to throw up and I was hot and I was 16 scared. 17 Q. Could you feel where the -- 18 A. I couldn't tell where it was at. I just knew 19 there was blood all behind me. I kept trying to find it, but 20 I didn't really want to find it so I didn't feel very much. 21 And I kept -- God, I kept almost passing out, but I thought if 22 I passed out I would die and I wouldn't get seen by my family. 23 So I just kept saying, "I can't pass out. I can't pass out." 24 When I would feel it coming like I was just going to throw up 25 or pass out, I would just stop and concentrate on fighting. 45 1 Q. Okay. What did the policeman do after he called 2 for assistance? 3 A. Well, he stood there for a second with us and 4 then cops just started coming. And then he went down the hall 5 and another policeman sat with me, and they were like guarding 6 us because the ambulance people came in then right away when 7 he called for an ambulance. And they were working on me. And 8 I know this woman, she was scared because she kept saying -- 9 Q. The EMS woman? 10 A. (Nods head affirmatively). She kept saying 11 "Cover me. Cover me." She thought they were going to come 12 back in there and shoot us some more. 13 Q. Was there still a policeman there? 14 A. Yes. There was policemen. I could see them 15 standing up all around. There was one knelt down beside me 16 holding me. 17 Q. Could you hear his radio? 18 A. Yeah, you could hear the radio the whole time, 19 all the stuff they were saying, because I remember when they 20 were trying to flood the building with policemen there was a 21 guy saying, "We're trying to get on the second floor and all 22 the doors are locked." 23 Q. Was this the SWAT team? 24 A. I don't know who was who, really, I could just 25 hear the radio transmission. 46 1 Q. Was there a point there where the SWAT team 2 arrived? 3 A. The SWAT team came in. 4 Q. Tell the jury about that. 5 A. Well, I mean, it was just, you knew it was the 6 SWAT team. They were all these guys and they had on, like, 7 special vests over their uniforms, I guess, they had on 8 protective. They were all carrying these big, long guns. And 9 I remember something coming on the radio they were sending 10 them up to the third floor because they were, like, guarding 11 who was going up and down the elevator at that point, and I 12 remember they said they were coming up and they would be 13 coming out. And they get off the elevator and, you know, they 14 had their guns and stuff and they were just hollering and 15 cussing and screaming. I suppose they do that to flush this 16 guy out or make him make a move. They were just screaming 17 profanities as they ran through and just dispersed all through 18 the building. 19 Q. Were they all going in this -- 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Were they all stepping over your feet? 22 A. They were going around me, yeah. 23 Q. What happened next? 24 A. Well, I just kept thinking he's coming back and 25 they did too, I guess, because everybody was scared. And I 47 1 kept asking them if I was going to die, because I thought I 2 was. I never knew anybody that had been shot before. I kept 3 saying don't let me die. I had a baby. And I said, "Please 4 don't let me die." And they wouldn't talk to me about it 5 because I had -- I would ask them, "Am I going to die," and 6 they wouldn't say nothing. And I told them I couldn't feel my 7 legs no more. They kept tellimg me to calm down, not to worry 8 about anything. 9 Q. What about Ms. Needy, what did they do with Ms. 10 Needy? 11 A. When they came in there were two emergency 12 people, one was a man and one was a woman. The woman came to 13 me and the man went to her and he was there for a minute, and 14 then he came and they started both just randomly working on 15 me. And he went back over there I think once, but then nobody 16 ever went to her no more, no policemen, nobody talked to her 17 and no EMS, so, I mean, I didn't ask them, but I just knew she 18 was dead. 19 Q. Tell us about how they got you out of there, 20 Angela. And how you were -- 21 A. Well, they couldn't do anything when they got 22 there because they didn't know where this guy was, and 23 everybody was screaming to cover them and there were just cops 24 standing everywhere. And I heard something on the radio and 25 they said, "We found the gunman and he shot himself." And I 48 1 said, "Oh, thank God. Get us out of here." And so they 2 started saying, "We got to have an ambulance on the Sixth 3 Street side," and this cop that was with me he called down and 4 he'd say, "Is it there," and they'd call back and say, "It's 5 not here; there's no ambulances over here, it's not here." 6 And we were just, like, "What's going on." I remember him 7 hollering, "What's going on," and I didn't know what was going 8 on. 9 And so they're still working on me and my chest 10 started to hurt and I thought I was having a heart attack, and 11 so I told them, I said, "I'm having a heart attack. I'm going 12 to die of a heart attack." And they kept telling me I just 13 needed to calm down. And then they were trying to talk to me. 14 I looked at this guy, and I said, "I'm dying. I can't fight 15 it no more. I can't fight it no more." And I said, "Please 16 tell my family I loved them and I'm sorry I couldn't say 17 goodbye." And he looked down at me and he just picked me up 18 in his arms and he said, "I'm coming down the elevators." And 19 he carried me down in his arms. And when the doors opened, 20 there were more cops everywhere. And he said, "We've got to 21 take her." 22 And they just put me in a car. I don't even 23 remember if it was a police car. I just know it was a 24 four-door car because they kept trying to get me in the 25 backseat and they couldn't get me in. My elbows kept hitting 49 1 in the doors and they kept trying to get me in. We started 2 off down the street. We didn't go a few feet and he slams on 3 the brakes and he was cussing, and then he'd say, "Excuse me, 4 ma'am." And he'd cuss some more and then he'd say, "Excuse 5 me." They couldn't get around the roadblocks or something, he 6 said. So then he just said to hold on and we bumped and 7 bumped and bumped along for a minute. I couldn't see 8 anything; I was laying flat. 9 And then we started driving fast and we were at 10 the hospital in just seconds. And I remember they jumped out 11 and screamed, "We've got one, we've got one." And they put 12 me on a stretcher and started taking me into the hospital. 13 Q. Had you ever seen Joseph Wesbecker before? 14 A. No, I hadn't. 15 Q. Had you ever talked to Joseph Wesbecker before? 16 A. No, I hadn't. 17 Q. Had you ever seen him there on the third floor 18 make any kind of complaints about his treatment at Standard 19 Gravure? 20 A. If I saw him I never knew it. I never knew him. 21 MR. SMITH: Pass the witness. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher? 23 MS. BOWMAN: May I get a drink out of my cup? 24 MR. STOPHER: Certainly. Can I offer you some? 25 MS. BOWMAN: I have it here. 50 1 MR. STOPHER: May I move this easel for a 2 moment? 3 4 EXAMINATION ___________ 5 6 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ ________ 7 Q. Ms. Bowman, I certainly understand, as everyone 8 does, what you've been through this morning. If at any time, 9 Ms. Bowman, you want to stop -- I don't want to ask you any 10 questions, but there are a few things that I want to ask you 11 about -- but if at any time that you'd like to stop and take a 12 break, I think everyone here will understand. Is that 13 understood and agreeable by you? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Do you want to stop now? 16 A. No. I'd rather get it over with. 17 Q. All right. I can understand that. Let me try 18 to be as brief as I can. Ms. Bowman, as I understand it, you 19 are related to Paula Warman; am I correct about that? 20 A. Yes, I am; I'm her niece. 21 Q. And she is your father's sister? 22 A. Yes, she is. 23 Q. And if I understand correctly, Paula Warman was 24 the director of human relations or human relations manager 25 whose office was just down the hall; is that accurate? 51 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And if I understand correctly, your husband, 3 Douglas Bowman, was also employed at a printing company at 4 about that time; am I right? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. And if I also understand correctly, that you do 7 recall that your husband and Mrs. Warman discussed Joseph 8 Wesbecker on at least one occasion. Do you recall that? 9 A. Yeah. It was only one occasion, but at the time 10 they didn't use his name. I didn't know until after the 11 shooting when I started putting everything together, because 12 Doug was talking about somebody at his job going through the 13 process of filing for disability and they were discussing how 14 that works and how like -- what measures you have beyond the 15 company. And I know she was explaining to him that there's 16 like an EEO board you go to like if you don't get resolution 17 with your company, and she said that she had a case pending 18 with the EEO board because a man wasn't able to work a machine 19 that they had at their company due to a stress-related 20 problem, but she didn't say his name. But then after the 21 shooting, I started thinking that had to be the guy because 22 everybody said he had filed some kind of a complaint because 23 of a stress-related problem. 24 Q. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. 25 As I recall it, this was at a family gathering of some sort; 52 1 am I right? 2 A. Well, at the time the shooting happened, my 3 grandmother and grandfather had like a small farm and Paula 4 and David, her husband, they had built a house to one side of 5 that, and I was living in a mobile home with my husband at the 6 time and we were on the other side of my grandparents, and we 7 pretty much -- it's a small family. We ate at Grandma's every 8 Sunday after church and then we sat around and talked until 9 everyone went home. 10 Q. And it was at one of those occasions that you 11 heard your husband and your aunt, Paula Warman, discussing an 12 employee at Standard Gravure who was having trouble operating 13 a machine? 14 A. Yeah. They didn't really discuss the trouble. 15 She just said that they had an EEO-type hearing related to 16 that because, like, if somebody filed and didn't get some kind 17 of resolution they were looking for, that that's like the 18 steps you went through, the process or whatever, but she 19 never -- see, I didn't know it was Joseph Wesbecker until 20 after because, like, when she talked about stuff at work she 21 wouldn't say names and details because I worked there and she, 22 you know, I wasn't supposed to know what she was doing or 23 anything of that kind of stuff. 24 Q. And apparently the issue was with regard to this 25 employee stress and the employee wanted off the machine and 53 1 had filed some kind of complaint; right? 2 A. Well, I assumed so, but she didn't explain that. 3 She just said she was going to a hearing because she had an 4 employee that was having a stress-related problem. 5 Q. All right. Now, Ms. Bowman, if I understand 6 correctly, you worked primarily in sales; you were an 7 estimator? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Correct? 10 A. That's right. 11 Q. And in addition to working in sales you worked 12 the receptionist desk from eight A.M. to nine A.M. until 13 Sharon Needy, who was the regular receptionist, arrived for 14 work; am I right? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And you had been doing that I think you told us 17 since approximately April of 1988? 18 A. Since I started there. Even during orientation 19 they made me do the lobby. 20 Q. And if I understand correctly, you did that one 21 hour a day for about a year and a half before this shooting 22 occurred; am I right about that? 23 A. Yeah. That's right, because I did it one hour 24 every day and I had been there about -- whatever April '88 to 25 September '89 is. 54 1 Q. Now, during at least part of the time that you 2 did that job, you knew Grady Throneberry was the manager of 3 security and safety for Standard Gravure? 4 A. Yes, I knew that. 5 Q. And his office, if I understand correctly, was 6 just around the corner basically and down a slight hallway 7 from where your office was located? 8 A. Well, yeah. See, I was over here and you had to 9 go past the copiers and machines, but then you had to go back 10 a hallway that went down to the right. He was like maybe the 11 last office or second-to-the-last office down that hall. 12 Q. Okay. At any time, Ms. Bowman, did Mr. 13 Throneberry ever give you or any receptionist any warnings 14 that there had been threats made against Standard Gravure? 15 A. Well, I can't speak for the other receptionists; 16 they didn't tell me. 17 Q. That was my question. 18 A. But he never did to me and the other 19 receptionists never told me. 20 Q. No one ever gave you any information that anyone 21 had made any threat to do something violent or harmful against 22 Standard Gravure or the people that worked there? 23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. Ms. Bowman, if I understand correctly, the 25 receptionist had a location that basically was just off of the 55 1 elevator on the third floor; am I right? 2 A. Yeah. Well, it wasn't off. Like, when you got 3 off the elevator, it's just an open foyer and that is where 4 the desk was located. 5 Q. All right. Let me show you, if I might, just a 6 few photographs of that receptionist area and ask you if you 7 can identify these for me. I will grant you, Ms. Bowman, that 8 the -- 9 MR. SMITH: May I see that, Counsel? 10 MR. STOPHER: Oh, certainly. 11 MR. SMITH: Okay. 12 Q. Ms. Bowman, the furniture has been removed, but 13 does that look like the elevator that you would have been 14 facing as you sat behind your desk? 15 A. Yes. That's it. 16 Q. And this would be on the third floor? 17 A. Uh-huh. That's the third floor. 18 Q. All right. 19 Your Honor, we're referring to Defendant's 20 Exhibit No. 18. 21 And if I further understand correctly, there are 22 two photographs that would show and, granted again, the 23 furniture has been removed. Do those photographs generally 24 show the area where the receptionist's desk was located and 25 the door behind that desk? 56 1 A. Yes. The desk at the time went across this way 2 and then had a counter top that went all the way around. 3 Q. And you're indicating on Defendant's Exhibit No. 4 20. And does that, Ms. Bowman, show the door behind the 5 receptionist's desk that you referred to several times this 6 morning? 7 A. Yes. 8 MR. STOPHER: And that is depicted, Your Honor, 9 on Defendant's Exhibit 19. 10 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, I assume Counsel is 11 going to offer those into evidence at this time. 12 JUDGE POTTER: I assume so. 13 MR. SMITH: Otherwise, we object to testimony 14 concerning any exhibits that aren't offered and admitted into 15 evidence. 16 MR. STOPHER: I think probably the easiest thing 17 to do is get to the end and put them all in. 18 MR. SMITH: That's fine. As long as you're 19 going to offer them. 20 Q. Sure. Ms. Bowman, let me next show you a 21 photograph that's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit 22. Is 22 that the receptionist's desk? 23 A. (Examines photograph). (Nods head 24 affirmatively) Yes. That's the receptionist's desk. 25 Q. All right. And there's a sign there that 57 1 apparently says, "Welcome to Standard Gravure, an affiliate of 2 Shea Communications." 3 A. Uh-huh. Sometimes it was changed with a 4 message, like, if we had an out-of-town customer, welcome to 5 them or something. 6 MR. STOPHER: All right. That, Your Honor, has 7 been marked as Defendant's Exhibit 22. 8 Ms. Bowman, let me next show you a photograph 9 that's marked Defendant's Exhibit 21. Would you want to take 10 a break? 11 A. No. I'm fine. 12 Q. Are you all right? 13 A. Yeah. I'm fine. 14 Q. And does that show the door out of the 15 receptionist's area and a hall going straight back behind that 16 door? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. All right. Now, Ms. Bowman, so that everyone 19 understands the physical layout, in order to come off of that 20 elevator on the third floor into the reception area, the way 21 that someone can do that is to enter the building through a 22 door that is actually on Sixth Street; am I correct? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. And I'm showing you a document, a photograph 25 that's been marked as Defendant's Exhibit 3. Does that show 58 1 the door on Sixth Street? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. And inside that door once someone 4 walks into it, there is a hallway, if I understand it 5 correctly, and an elevator where someone can go up to the 6 third floor; correct? 7 A. There's a -- I'm sorry. Would you repeat that? 8 Q. All right. Let me show you a photograph and 9 make it hopefully clearer. When you enter this door on Sixth 10 Street and you walk through the door, you come into a lobby 11 shown here in the photograph that I've marked Defendant's 12 Exhibit 15. Do you recognize that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. There is no receptionist there; am I correct? 15 A. No. 16 Q. There was no guard there? 17 A. No. 18 Q. And if I understand correctly, there was no TV 19 video monitor to show anyone coming into this area; is that 20 true? 21 A. I never saw a TV video monitor, but I wasn't in 22 charge of security, so... 23 Q. I understand you weren't, but did anyone ever 24 show you any TV monitor or video so that you could observe 25 people coming in through that door? 59 1 A. No. When I started to work there there was a -- 2 like a blank TV screen in the lobby. And I asked them what it 3 was for, and they said there had been at one point like a 4 security -- like where you could see somebody at the door, I 5 guess, but I never saw it work and I had been told it had been 6 vandalized numerous times. 7 Q. The monitor that you're referring to was a TV 8 screen located on or near the receptionist's desk? 9 A. Yeah. It was about the first week or so I 10 worked there, but at some point it disappeared, I don't know 11 when. 12 Q. Right. And during the rest of the year and a 13 half that you worked there, someone could enter this door on 14 Sixth Street, get onto the elevator, ride up to the third 15 floor and there was no means by which you could see that 16 someone was coming; am I right? 17 A. Just once the elevator opened you knew they were 18 there. 19 Q. During the daytime, Ms. Bowman, was that door at 20 Sixth Street unlocked? 21 A. Some of us arrived to work at eight and the 22 security company would open it just minutes before eight. And 23 then in the afternoon if you worked late, at six o'clock they 24 came around and they -- I guess, with some sort of key or 25 something they -- they locked the elevator so that it remained 60 1 on the third floor and they looked the front door so, like, if 2 you -- you couldn't get in at all the front way after six 3 o'clock. 4 Q. But if I understand correctly, from eight A.M. 5 to six P.M. this door was unlocked, unmanned, unguarded and 6 unmonitored; am I right? 7 A. As far as I know. 8 Q. Now, Ms. Bowman, if I understand correctly, no 9 one ever asked you whether or not there should be a TV monitor 10 at the receptionist's desk or any sort of locked controls for 11 the door on Sixth Street; am I correct? 12 A. No one asked me? 13 Q. Yes, ma'am. 14 A. No. But they wouldn't ask me. 15 Q. All right. Mr. Throneberry never asked your 16 opinion or advice about that subject? 17 A. No. I was just the person that answered the 18 phone. 19 Q. All right. Now, Ms. Bowman, if I understand 20 correctly, I will not ask you the questions that have been 21 asked of you, but there are just a few matters that I do want 22 to ask you about that morning. If I understand correctly, 23 when the elevator doors opened, you observed Mr. Wesbecker 24 move from that point through the door. And I know there are 25 lots of things that occurred in between but he moved some 61 1 distance in that reception area; correct? 2 A. He stepped off the elevator and started walking 3 toward us. 4 Q. And if I understand you correctly, he was 5 walking toward you and toward Sharon Needy; am I correct? 6 A. Yes, he was. 7 Q. At that point in time he was not running, if I 8 understand correctly? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Ms. Needy -- I mean, Ms. Bowman, as I understand 11 it he first raised the gun toward Ms. Needy; am I correct? 12 A. Well, she was shot first, but he never really 13 raised the gun. It was like just here and he just started 14 shooting from there. It wasn't like a gun that you take up to 15 your eye or anything. 16 Q. He held it at his hip or between his hip and his 17 shoulder? 18 A. Just in here, wherever his arm fell. 19 Q. All right. And if I understand correctly, he 20 fired twice, once at Sharon Needy and once at you; is that 21 accurate? 22 A. No. I believe -- like I said, I wasn't 23 counting, but there wasn't pop to her, pop to me. There was 24 like in her general area two or three in my general area. 25 Each of us got like two to three shots at us. 62 1 Q. Ms. Bowman, let me refer you back, if I could, 2 please, to your sworn testimony that you gave on November 14, 3 1991, under oath. 4 A. Uh-huh. 5 Q. Let me ask you on Page 57 if these questions 6 were asked of you and if you gave these answers. 7 "Question: When he walked off of the elevator 8 was the gun then visible to you? 9 "Answer: I don't recall a point that it wasn't 10 visible. I don't know if it was invisible when the doors 11 opened because my first reaction was to look at his face to 12 see who it was. I wasn't looking at his waistline or that 13 area, so I remember glancing at his face and seeing the gun. 14 I don't remember at what point it was visible as such. 15 "Question: Did he as he walked toward you 16 proceed to point the gun in your direction? 17 "Answer: It happened very quickly. But the way 18 I remember it is that he -- as he walked toward us the gun had 19 become visible and Sharon screamed like a squeal scream, not 20 like scream out words, just a scream, and I remember it was 21 just bam bam, pointed it at her, pointed it at me and shot 22 both times. I think, you know, he was holding it in the 23 general area of us. He was pointing it at the wall -- he 24 wasn't pointing it at the wall or anything. He was walking 25 toward us, so I guess that was the natural thing for it to be 63 1 pointing at us." Is that what you testified to on that date, 2 Ms. Bowman? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. All right. Now, if I understand correctly, Ms. 5 Bowman, you also said on Page 62 on that same topic, if I 6 might, of the deposition. 7 "Question 302: When he shot at you, did he 8 shoot over the desk or did he shoot through the desk? 9 "Answer: Well, you know, he shot her and then 10 he turned it to me immediately. And I believe he did have to 11 lift it a little bit because she was just at the end but I was 12 kind of hidden behind it, and I believe it kind of made a 13 swing as it came up. It was, like, boom and then it went up a 14 little bit for me, but it wasn't like a conscious where he 15 held it to her and then he stopped and he aimed at me. It was 16 kind of like one big motion, boom-boom. 17 "Question: He shot her once and then he turned 18 the gun and fired at you? 19 "Answer: As far as I know, I believe I was on 20 the second bang." 21 Are those the answers that you gave, Ms. Bowman? 22 A. (Nods head affirmatively). Uh-huh. 23 Q. All right. Now, Ms. Bowman, if I understand 24 correctly, Mr. Wesbecker first went through the door shown in 25 this photograph, which is Defendant's Exhibit 19, and he had 64 1 left the bag back in the reception room; am I understanding 2 correctly? 3 A. He dropped it when he began to fire. 4 Q. All right. And then he walked to this door 5 which I understood you to say was open? 6 A. Yes. It was always open. 7 Q. And then I understood you to say that you could 8 see his shoes and his behind as he stood there in the doorway; 9 am I right about that? 10 A. Uh-huh. Yes. 11 Q. And I thought I understood that he looked to the 12 right -- 13 A. No. To the left. To his left on down the 14 hallway. 15 Q. He looked to the left and then he looked to the 16 right? 17 A. No. He looked straight ahead. 18 Q. No. Then did he look to the right? 19 A. No. After he looked straight ahead he took off 20 running straight ahead. 21 Q. Now, if I understand you correctly then, he 22 fired some shots while he was standing there in that doorway? 23 A. Yes. He fired as he turned to the left and he 24 fired as he faced straight ahead and he ran. 25 Q. Whose office was immediately to the right of 65 1 that doorway, Ms. Bowman? 2 A. Mike Shea's. 3 Q. Mike Shea's. Again, let me refer you to your 4 deposition that you gave under oath on November 14, 1991. 5 "Page 67, Question 326: When he stood there in 6 the doorway, did he say anything or make any sounds? 7 "Answer: No, sir; I didn't hear him say 8 anything. 9 "Question: Did he have the gym bag in his hands 10 or on his person at that time? 11 "Answer: No, sir; not at that point. 12 "Question: Now, he stands there in that doorway 13 and I think I understood you to say he fired several shots? 14 "Answer: Yes, sir. 15 "Question: And you observed him turning from 16 left to right to right to left and back and forth? 17 "Answer: Yes. Couple of times, like he was 18 seeing, I guess, who was there, where he was going, whatever 19 he was thinking." 20 Did you give those answers under oath, Ms. 21 Bowman? 22 A. Yes. But he never turned -- I meant this way, 23 this way, this way, this way (indicating). He never went all 24 the way around that way. 25 Q. Now, Ms. Bowman, if I understand correctly, you 66 1 heard someone running in the hallway; am I correct? 2 A. Yes, I did. 3 Q. And if I understand correctly, Kathy Wilkins had 4 been in the hallway just outside the door? 5 A. Uh-huh. 6 Q. Do you know if she took off running? 7 A. As soon as we were shot she was gone, but where 8 she was, there was carpet. I never heard her. She would have 9 been running while I was shot. 10 Q. All right. Now, if I understand finally 11 correctly, he came back into the room and retrieved the gym 12 bag; am I correct? 13 A. Well, he went to the gym bag. I didn't know if 14 he retrieved it or not. I didn't look up far enough to see if 15 he picked it up, but I know he went over there and he bent 16 down to it, so I assumed he picked it up, I guess, but I 17 never -- I never looked beyond his feet. 18 Q. And I understand at that time he was not 19 running; am I correct? 20 A. Well, he ran back into the room, but when he 21 went out he didn't run. I could hear him run up the hall and 22 I heard shots, and then I heard him running back toward us and 23 that's when I thought he was running back to get us again. 24 Q. Let me again refer you, if I might, to the 25 deposition testimony that you gave on Page 70. Actually 67 1 beginning on Page 69, Question 342: 2 "Question: He obviously walked back in or came 3 back in, I don't know if he walked or ran, but he came back in 4 through the same doorway that you had seen him standing in? 5 "Answer: Yes. I wouldn't say if he was walking 6 or running, but I would say he was in a hurry. He wasn't 7 actually like a runner, but he wasn't actually just walking. 8 "Question: And he entered the reception room 9 area again? 10 "Answer: Yes, sir." 11 Is that accurate, Ms. Bowman? 12 A. Uh-huh. He wasn't walking, but he was fast. I 13 mean, he didn't run like you think of like a sprinter running; 14 he was, like, bouncing. 15 Q. And then, if I understand correctly, he came 16 back and stood near you; am I correct? 17 A. Yeah. After he got the bag, I saw his feet 18 right at Sharon's -- like turned toward her, then his feet 19 turned toward me, but his feet were right beside, like, my 20 feet. 21 Q. And if I understand correctly, that's when you 22 said, "Please don't kill me, I have a baby"? 23 A. To that effect, I don't know my exact words, but 24 I said, "Please don't kill me." 25 Q. During this time, Ms. Bowman, did he say 68 1 anything to you or to Ms. Needy or to anyone that you heard? 2 A. No. 3 Q. He never uttered a sound? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Your Honor, we would like to mark and file as 6 exhibits -- Defendant's Exhibit 3 -- let me get these in 7 numerical order -- 3, 18, 19, 20 and 21 and 22, if the Court 8 please. 9 JUDGE POTTER: They will be admitted. 10 MR. STOPHER: Thank you, Your Honor. That's all 11 I have. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Have you got a 15 in there 13 somewhere or not? 14 MR. STOPHER: No, sir. It's 3, 19, 18, 20 15 through 22. 16 JUDGE POTTER: All right. Any redirect, Mr. 17 Smith? 18 19 FURTHER_EXAMINATION _______ ___________ 20 21 BY_MR._SMITH: __ ___ ______ 22 Q. What's your understanding, Angela -- can I 23 direct my questions from here? I just have a couple. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Sure. 25 Q. What's your understanding, Angela, as to why the 69 1 front door on this street was unlocked? 2 A. Because we employees came in that way and 3 customers, salespeople. 4 Q. Had you ever seen pressmen going to or from work 5 at either The Courier-Journal or at Standard Gravure carrying 6 gym bags of the nature that you saw there on September 14th, 7 1989? 8 A. Yes, I had, because I think most of them bathed 9 before they went home and they would carry bags of clothes and 10 stuff with them. 11 Q. Thank you, Angela; that's all we have. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Thank you, Ms. Bowman. You're 13 excused. 14 Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take our 15 morning recess. It will be 15 minutes. As I've mentioned to 16 you-all before, do not permit anybody to talk to you about 17 this case. Do not discuss it among yourselves and do not form 18 or express opinions about it. We'll stand in recess for 15 19 minutes. 20 (RECESS; BENCH DISCUSSION FOLLOWS) 21 MR. SMITH: I had not offered, I don't think, 22 formally these two exhibits. Is it all right to -- 23 MR. STOPHER: I'll be glad to put those in now. 24 MR. SMITH: Well, you can do it at lunch, as 25 long as I don't waive my right to -- 70 1 JUDGE POTTER: Oh, no. 2 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 3 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Smith, you want to call your 4 next witness? 5 MR. SMITH: Plaintiffs call Ms. Paula Warman, 6 Your Honor. 7 JUDGE POTTER: You're Ms. Warman? Would you 8 raise your right hand. 9 10 11 PAULA N. WARMAN, after first being duly sworn, 12 testified as follows: 13 14 JUDGE POTTER: Would you have a seat there, 15 keep your voice up, and would you state your full name for the 16 record, please. 17 MS. WARMAN: My name is Paula N. Warman. 18 JUDGE POTTER: Answer Mr. Smith's questions. 19 20 EXAMINATION ___________ 21 22 BY_MR._SMITH: __ ___ ______ 23 Q. How old of a lady are you, Ms. Warman? 24 A. Forty-six. 25 Q. And where do you live? 71 1 A. 7951 Pekin Road, Greenville, Indiana. 2 Q. Can you talk up a little bit, Ms. Warman? I'm 3 having trouble hearing you. That mike may not be working. 4 A. Yes, I can. 5 Q. Who lives with you at that address, ma'am? 6 A. My husband, David, and my son, Brian. 7 A. How old is Brian? 8 A. Brian is 14. 9 Q. How long have you and Mr. Warman been married? 10 A. Seventeen years. 11 Q. What does Mr. Warman do? 12 A. He is a copy processor at Riverport Imaging. 13 Q. Is that a company that was at one time owned by 14 Mr. Michael Shea? 15 A. It is still owned by Mr. Michael Shea. 16 Q. How are you currently employed, Ms. Warman? 17 A. I'm currently the employee relations manager at 18 The Courier-Journal. 19 Q. And how long have you been at that capacity? 20 A. Since December of 1992. 21 Q. And before that, where did you work? 22 A. At Standard Gravure. 23 Q. When did you start at Standard Gravure? 24 A. January of 1987. 25 Q. And what was your job at Standard Gravure, Ms. 72 1 Warman? 2 A. The employee relations manager there. 3 Q. And before you started with Standard Gravure, 4 what was your job? 5 A. I was an executive assistant at The 6 Courier-Journal in the human resources department. 7 Q. And how long were you there? 8 A. I was at The Courier for about twenty and a half 9 years. 10 Q. Does that include the time since 1992 when you 11 returned to The Courier-Journal? 12 A. No. That was prior to leaving to go to Standard 13 Gravure. 14 Q. What is your educational background, Ms. Warman? 15 A. I have a high school education. 16 Q. And are you Angela Bowman's aunt? 17 A. Yes, I am. 18 Q. And what is the relationship between you and Ms. 19 Bowman; is her father your brother? 20 A. Her father is my only brother. 21 Q. And do you live in close proximity or did you 22 live in 1989 in close proximity to Ms. Bowman? 23 A. Yes. Very close. 24 Q. Describe to me the relationship there. 25 A. In 1989, first my parents had given us a piece 73 1 of property to build our house on. We lived on one side of my 2 parents on a -- actually surrounded by their acreage around 3 us, and Angela had moved into a mobile home on the other side 4 of my parents, also on their acreage. 5 Q. And Angela has since moved? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you know why she's moved? 8 A. Well, after the shooting she needed a 9 handicapped-equipped home, and so she was able to get one of 10 those. She moved into one of those, built one. 11 Q. Would you describe for us, please, Ms. Warman, 12 generally what you did at The Courier-Journal immediately 13 before you left there to go with Standard Gravure? 14 A. Within approximately the last year of my 15 employment at The Courier-Journal, I had been assigned to some 16 special projects. It was an opportunity for me to be more 17 aware of what was going on in the different functions within 18 our department to broaden my knowledge. And in approximately 19 -- at approximately somewhere around Thanksgiving in November 20 of 1986, after the sale of the companies, I was assigned as a 21 special project to set up the personnel department for 22 Standard Gravure. 23 Q. When the Binghams owned both The Courier-Journal 24 and Standard Gravure, were all employees handled through one 25 location? 74 1 A. Yes. Human resources department under the 2 Binghams serviced all of the Bingham-owned companies. 3 Q. And then when was the sale of The Courier -- I 4 mean, of Standard Gravure to Mr. Shea? 5 A. I can't remember the exact month, but it was mid 6 '86. 7 Q. And why did you decide to leave The 8 Courier-Journal and go with Standard Gravure? 9 A. Well, after having been over to Standard to set 10 up their personnel department, I was offered a position there 11 as the employee relations manager. It would have been a 12 promotion for me, an opportunity for me to set up a personnel 13 department, and I chose to make that move at that time. 14 Q. Once you moved to Standard Gravure, were you 15 just in charge of Standard Gravure employee relationships? 16 Did you have any other duties and responsibilities in 17 connection with employees of any other previously owned 18 companies? 19 A. No, I did not. 20 Q. Do you remember, Ms. Warman, whether or not part 21 of your duties while you were at The Courier-Journal before 22 you went to Standard Gravure included doing personnel matters 23 for Standard Gravure employees? Do you follow what I'm 24 saying? 25 A. Yes. We performed personnel functions for 75 1 Standard Gravure. 2 Q. In that capacity, did you ever come into contact 3 with or have any dealings with Joseph Wesbecker? 4 A. No, sir; I did not. Not to my knowledge. 5 Q. Had there ever been any type of complaints or 6 grievances or any matters of any nature that had been filed by 7 Mr. Wesbecker before you came over to Standard Gravure? 8 A. Not that I was aware of. 9 Q. Would you have -- had there been such a person 10 that would have had knowledge of that? 11 A. Not necessarily. 12 Q. Who was the head of employee relations at The 13 Courier-Journal before you left? 14 A. Don McCall. 15 Q. And was Mr. McCall hired by Mr. Shea? 16 A. Yes, he was. 17 Q. What was Mr. McCall's position? 18 A. I think Mr. McCall's position at Standard was 19 executive vice-president. 20 Q. And did he continue as executive vice-president 21 up to September the 14th, 1989? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. Who did you report directly to in your job 24 duties as manager of employee relations for Standard Gravure? 25 A. Well, in the beginning, I reported to Joe 76 1 Woolfolk; he was the person who actually hired me. He was the 2 plant manager and one of the top ranking officials at Standard 3 Gravure at that time. And then Mr. Woolfolk left, I believe, 4 sometime in '88, and I began reporting to Mr. McCall. 5 Q. Did Mr. McCall take Mr. Woolfolk's job or did he 6 just happen to be -- when Mr. Woolfolk left you were changed 7 supervisors? 8 A. Mr. McCall had come to Standard Gravure about a 9 week after I had, so he had already been in his position for 10 that length of time. My reporting relationship just changed 11 when Mr. Woolfolk left. 12 Q. Up to September 14th, 1989, Ms. Warman, would 13 you describe to the jury generally what the relationship was 14 between employees and management at that plant? 15 A. Up to? 16 Q. September 14th, 1989, from the time you started 17 in January of '87 until September 1989. 18 A. Well, in 1987, I believe that the employees at 19 Standard Gravure saw Mr. Shea as the white knight, the person 20 who was going to save Standard Gravure. 21 Q. Was Standard Gravure in trouble? 22 A. Standard Gravure had been in trouble for many 23 years. They had undergone a wage freeze and a moratorium for 24 several years and business had not been good, no equipment had 25 been invested or very little equipment had been invested -- 77 1 money had been invested to buy equipment, and there was 2 concern that whoever purchased the company might just close it 3 and take the assets. So I believe that when Mr. Shea 4 purchased the company, it was my feeling that the employees 5 thought that this was -- could possibly be a turnaround for 6 Standard Gravure. 7 Q. Did Mr. Shea say or do anything to either 8 confirm or dispute your hopes or suspicions that Mr. Shea 9 would continue with the company? 10 A. Mr. Shea brought in a lot of business to that 11 company within the first year or two. We felt it was directly 12 related to his contacts. Business picked up. I believe that 13 the -- as a matter of fact, that the profit sharing that the 14 employees got was one of the largest checks that they had ever 15 received during the profit sharing -- during the moratorium. 16 We felt like he was there to stay. 17 Q. All right. So is what you're saying that the 18 employees had under the Binghams agreed to a freeze in salary 19 increases? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. But they were going to continue to get profit 22 sharing? 23 A. Well, profit sharing was something that they had 24 never had before. They had always either negotiated their 25 contracts -- the union employees had negotiated their 78 1 contracts and received increases under those contracts. The 2 nonunion employees received their increases based on 3 performance, merit increases. So profit sharing was something 4 that was introduced when the moratorium started, when the wage 5 freeze started, then it was presented that they would be 6 eligible for profit sharing if there were a profit. 7 Q. Under the Binghams was there ever a profit which 8 employees participated in? 9 A. I don't really know for sure. 10 Q. Did you ever get a check? 11 A. No, but I was not an employee of Standard 12 Gravure at that time, so... 13 Q. Once you became an employee of Standard Gravure, 14 was there ever any profit-sharing checks issued to any 15 employees? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Was there profit-sharing checks issued to 18 pressmen? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Did you as a member of the office staff 21 participate in that, also? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. All right. So how did things go under -- why 24 don't you explain to the jury -- let me strike that. 25 Why don't you explain to the jury, Ms. Warman, 79 1 generally what the business of Standard Gravure was and what 2 type of products that they produced. As I understand it, it 3 was a printing plant? 4 A. Yes. It was a printing plant. In the 5 beginning, Standard Gravure did mostly Sunday magazines, the 6 magazines that came out in the Sunday paper. But as time 7 progressed, there was less and less of a demand for Sunday 8 magazines, so we shifted our business to commercial fliers, 9 like the fliers you get in your newspaper for Target and Kmart 10 and things like that. Those were the types of things we 11 printed. 12 Q. And did Mr. McCall have some -- I mean, Mr. Shea 13 have some experience in or contact with people who wanted 14 fliers like Kmart and Target? 15 A. Yes. As I understand what Mr. Shea did before 16 he came to Standard -- before he purchased Standard Gravure 17 was was that he was a broker; that he actually was involved 18 with other printing companies in having things printed from 19 the customer. He actually dealt between the printer and the 20 customer. That's my understanding of what he did. So there 21 were contacts that he had at that time. 22 Q. Did business in fact increase? 23 A. Yes, sir; it did. 24 Q. Can you give the jury any example of -- by what 25 percentages or anything of that nature? 80 1 A. No, sir. I don't really remember. It was my 2 impression that business was good. 3 Q. Was there at some point some feelings of ill 4 will by the employees of Standard Gravure directed toward Mr. 5 Shea? 6 A. Yes. I think there were some things that the 7 employees may not have understood that, for instance, in 1988, 8 there was a major fire and explosion. This is something they 9 did all understand, and a decision was made by Mr. Shea to not 10 replace some presses at that time after the fire and 11 explosion. We had some of our newer presses were destroyed, 12 and I'm sure the employees did not agree with that decision to 13 not replace those presses. There was also -- 14 Q. By virtue of failure to replace those presses, 15 did that cause some pressmen to lose their jobs? 16 A. Yes. It caused a layoff of pressmen, engravers, 17 I think maybe even some office staff. I don't recall exactly. 18 It seems to me there were about 145 people who were laid off 19 at that time. 20 Q. What else occurred, Ms. Warman? 21 A. There was some discussion about the fact that 22 Mr. Shea had robbed the pension plan and taken the employees' 23 money, and what had happened was that the pension plan was 24 overfunded by the Binghams, and when Mr. Shea purchased the 25 company that was one of the assets of the company that he also 81 1 purchased, and he along with I think anyone else who would 2 have purchased the company, including the employee committee 3 who was looking at it, was going to -- would have taken those 4 assets and applied them to the debt. 5 Q. What do you mean "employee committee that was 6 looking at it"? 7 A. There was an employee committee who was trying 8 to get the employees to buy the company. 9 Q. When would that have been? 10 A. Prior to the sale to Mr. Shea. 11 Q. And was it known at the time that the company 12 was up for sale in '86 that this employee pension 13 profit-sharing plan was an asset of the company? 14 A. I would say that it was only known to those 15 people who were actually getting the statistics to buy the 16 company; that it was not a well-known fact to all the 17 employees. 18 Q. Was it a well-known fact to the employee 19 committee that was going to buy it? 20 A. It's my understanding that it was a well-known 21 fact to the employee committee that was going to buy it, yes. 22 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to the source of 23 those funds in the pension plan? Was that money that had been 24 taken out of employees' checks to fund the pension fund? 25 A. It's my understanding that those were employer 82 1 contributions. It was money that had been put in by the 2 Binghams, and the pension plan is valued every year to 3 determine how much money is necessary to be in there to pay 4 the benefits that the employees have accrued. And so this is 5 an annual thing. And if money needs to be put into the plan, 6 it is done; if it does not, they do not have to fund it. 7 Q. But it's your testimony it's your understanding 8 and your general knowledge after Mr. Shea bought the plant 9 that there was in excess of 10 million dollars that had been 10 put aside by the Binghams? 11 A. That seems right, yes. 12 Q. And what occurred with that? 13 A. As we understand it, Mr. Shea took the money out 14 of the pension plan and applied it to the debt that he owed on 15 Standard Gravure. 16 Q. Would that affect employees' pension plan 17 benefits? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Why? 20 A. Because the law said that you had to have enough 21 money in there to pay the benefits that had already been 22 accrued, so that it would not have changed their benefit. 23 What they had earned, they would get. 24 Q. Well, what happened to the 10 million dollars? 25 Wasn't the 10 million dollars something that could be 83 1 disbursed to employees, or was it? 2 A. Not that I know of. I think that whatever's in 3 the pension plan has to be paid as part of the pension. 4 Q. So only if an employee happened to retire and 5 has it vested; is that what you're saying? 6 A. I'm sorry. I don't understand what you're 7 saying. 8 Q. Well, would there ever be any instances as far 9 as you understand it where any employee would get any part of 10 that 10 million dollars? 11 A. The only way that an employee could have gotten 12 part of that 10 million dollars, and this is my understanding, 13 would have been had the management decided out of the goodness 14 of their heart to increase pension benefits across the board 15 after people were already receiving their benefits. 16 Q. And that wasn't done? 17 A. I'm sorry? 18 Q. Was that ever done? 19 A. Yes, sir. It was done by the Binghams once or 20 twice, to my knowledge. 21 Q. Did Mr. Shea ever do it? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. What was Mr. Shea's intention? Did you ever 24 hear him express an intention in connection with what he 25 intended to do with Standard Gravure? 84 1 MR. STOPHER: Objection, Your Honor. Objection. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Approach the bench. 3 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 4 JUDGE POTTER: I mean, isn't he right? 5 MR. SMITH: I'm not offering to prove the truth 6 of the matter asserted, but to develop that there was a plan 7 to continue the company operating and that this money was used 8 to produce the initial purchase price so that the company 9 would be more profitable for Mr. Shea; therefore, it was 10 profitable for the company and insures jobs. 11 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher? 12 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, it's hearsay. Mr. 13 Shea has given two depositions and an evidentiary deposition, 14 and he's perfectly capable of testifying for himself. And we 15 object to somebody else putting words into his mouth; it's 16 just hearsay. 17 JUDGE POTTER: I really don't think she's 18 qualified to, you know, testify on that topic; second of all, 19 it's hearsay; and third of all, even if it's not hearsay, you 20 know, what she thought was going to happen is really not 21 important, so objection sustained. 22 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 23 Q. Were there any layoffs under Mr. Shea? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. How often were there layoffs under Mr. Shea? 85 1 A. Well, there was a layoff after the major fire 2 and explosion. There may have been some layoffs immediately 3 after Mr. Shea purchased the company, may have been a few 4 layoffs right in the very beginning. 5 Q. Are you familiar with the general opinion 6 concerning the viability of Standard Gravure as a company as 7 of, say, September 1st, 1989? 8 A. As to whether or not it was going to make it? 9 Q. Yes, ma'am. 10 A. I think there was some concern in 1989. 11 Q. Was the financial condition of the company 12 better or worse in September 1989 than it was before it was 13 sold by the Binghams in 1986? 14 A. I really had no access to the financial records. 15 Q. Have you ever met Joseph Wesbecker, Ms. Warman? 16 A. No, sir; not to my knowledge. 17 Q. Have you ever had any in-person dealings with 18 Mr. Wesbecker at all? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Did you as employee relations manager ever have 21 occasion to deal with employment matters in connection with 22 Mr. Wesbecker? 23 A. Employment matters? 24 Q. Yeah. As far as his benefits, as far as any 25 complaints he might have had concerning the job or anything of 86 1 that nature? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What was the first dealing that you had in 4 connection with any problems that Mr. Wesbecker might have 5 had? 6 A. I believe my first recollection of any problem 7 was when he filed his complaint with the Human Relations 8 Commission. 9 Q. That's this EEOC complaint that was mentioned by 10 Ms. Bowman? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. What was the nature of that complaint, Ms. 13 Warman? 14 A. To the best of my memory, Mr. Wesbecker felt 15 that working the folder presented an undue stressful situation 16 for him and he wanted to be relieved of that position 17 permanently. 18 Q. Well, did he want to quit working at Standard 19 Gravure? 20 A. No, sir. My understanding was that he wanted a 21 written guarantee that he would never, ever have to work the 22 folder. 23 Q. And were you charged at least in part with 24 investigations -- investigating the allegations made by Mr. 25 Wesbecker? 87 1 A. Yes, sir. I was charged in part. 2 Q. What did you do in connection with this claim? 3 A. I spoke with Don Cox, who was the superintendent 4 of the pressroom. 5 Q. Why did you speak with Mr. Cox? 6 A. Because I felt like if anything -- if there was 7 anything going on, Mr. Cox would be aware of it. He was most 8 familiar with the folder and the jobs in the pressroom, and I 9 was not. 10 Q. Did you learn whether or not Mr. Wesbecker had 11 been working the folder? 12 A. Yes. I had learned that Mr. Cox had been aware 13 that Mr. Wesbecker did not want to work the folder, and our 14 investigation showed that he had not been asked to work the 15 folder. 16 Q. In how long? 17 A. It seems like it was -- I don't have the records 18 in front of me, but it seems like it was in '86, since 1986 19 when Mr. Cox first became aware of this problem. 20 Q. And when was the complaint made? 21 A. May of '87, I believe. 22 Q. So what was your understanding as to how long it 23 had been since Mr. Wesbecker had worked the folder, in 24 actuality? 25 A. I believe that Mr. Wesbecker had not worked the 88 1 folder since September of '86, and that's my recollection. 2 Q. What else did you do in connection with this 3 investigation? 4 A. Well, I had some conversations, based on notes 5 that I have seen, with Mr. Mattingly. I talked with my 6 supervisor, Mr. McCall. I really -- the extent of the 7 investigation was pretty much with my supervisor and Don Cox. 8 Q. Would those notes that you made and would the 9 file in connection with this complaint help you in giving your 10 testimony here today? 11 A. Possibly so. 12 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, we have a set of 13 documents numbered Plaintiffs' Exhibits 1 through 29. We can 14 do this individually or as a group. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Have you had a chance to look at 16 them, Mr. Stopher? 17 MR. STOPHER: I've had a chance to look at most 18 of them, Judge. 19 JUDGE POTTER: Take a minute to look at them and 20 maybe we can get them all in by agreement. 21 MR. STOPHER: Is it the same ones that were in 22 her deposition? 23 MR. SMITH: Yes. 24 MR. STOPHER: Fine, Your Honor. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Plaintiffs' Nos. 1 through 29 are 89 1 admitted. 2 MR. SMITH: I'm going to hand the Witness the 3 original and then I have a copy for you, also, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. That's all right, Mr. 5 Smith. You can use those to work from yourself. I don't need 6 a copy. 7 MR. SMITH: Can I approach the Witness while 8 we're getting these put together? 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 10 Q. What is Exhibit 1, Ms. Warman? 11 A. It's the complaint of discrimination. 12 Q. And what is stated concerning the discrimination 13 that's involved? 14 A. He's stated that he believes he was a victim of 15 discrimination due to his handicap, manic depression. It 16 states, "I am very capable of performing my designated job, 17 working inks and running reels, and my job performance has 18 been satisfactory. The company psychologist directed that I 19 should not be assigned to a more stressful job, parentheses, 20 running the folders, end parentheses. Company formed and 21 ignored this directive and told me there's nothing wrong with 22 me and that I have to tough it out. Other employees are 23 granted light duty without being harassed. This situation has 24 caused me embarrassment and humiliation." 25 Q. And what is the date of that complaint? 90 1 A. May 21st, 1987. 2 Q. And is it signed by Mr. Wesbecker? 3 A. Yes, sir; it is. 4 Q. And is this what triggered you in your work in 5 connection with Mr. Wesbecker's complaint? 6 A. Yes, sir; it is. 7 Q. Now, were you from that point out to disqualify 8 Mr. Wesbecker from his request there? 9 A. Out to disqualify him? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. No. I wanted to find out if any of this was 12 going on. 13 Q. All right. Okay. So with your notes, tell the 14 jury basically what you did after you received that complaint. 15 A. Okay. I have some notes that I made -- this is 16 in my handwriting, a conversation that I had with Don Cox, and 17 it talks about that Wesbecker had come from Dearing as a 18 journeyman and he was qualified for every job. We talked 19 about the fact that off and on he's been required to work on 20 the folder, but most of the time as man in charge, and the 21 foreman places the man as he needs it. As recently as three 22 to four years ago, he requested he not be made to work the 23 folder any more than necessary. Because of early retirements, 24 buy-outs, staff reductions, he had been required to work the 25 folder frequently, but no more than before. Now, this is what 91 1 Mr. Cox was telling me happened prior. 2 Q. Prior to what? 3 A. Okay. Let me just continue. 4 Q. All right. 5 A. About a year ago, he appeared to be having a 6 problem, asked the foreman not to work the folder any more 7 than necessary. He also asked Don Cox. Don talked to the 8 foreman, requested he not be used on the folder unless 9 necessary. At the end of the summer last year -- Don received 10 a call last year. Don received a call from Lampton; that's 11 Patrick Lampton, who was the employee assistance person at The 12 Courier-Journal who the employees had been seeing, some of 13 them had been seeing, saying Joe was experiencing emotional 14 problems. Pat asked if we could keep from placing Joe in a 15 stressful situation. Don then requested the foreman to not 16 place him on the folder unless absolutely necessary. Then the 17 last comment says however -- and this is not a complete 18 sentence -- "However, most qualified. Couldn't use someone 19 who never worked." 20 Q. Explain what that means. 21 A. Well, according to the union contract, a 22 pressman is a pressman is a pressman, and they all had to be 23 able to do all of the functions as a pressman. But in any 24 situation, we know that we have some people who are better at 25 doing one job than another. And basically what this was 92 1 saying from Don Cox was that if they got into a situation 2 where there was really no one else who was qualified to work 3 the folder, that they would have to use Mr. Wesbecker, but 4 they would make every effort to not do that. It would be more 5 of an emergency-type situation. 6 Q. And what did it indicate -- what did your 7 investigation indicate had been the last time that Mr. 8 Wesbecker had actually been required to work the folder? 9 A. Well, in the letter that I drafted to Dan 10 Mattingly, the compliance officer at the Human Relations 11 Commission, the letter says since September of 1986, Mr. 12 Wesbecker has not been required to work on the folder. He did 13 work on the secondary winder on eight occasions during that 14 period of time as the secondary man in charge. 15 Q. What is the secondary winder; do you know? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Okay. What was the next thing that occurred in 18 this investigation of Mr. Wesbecker's complaint after you -- I 19 guess it would be after you took your notes. Did you respond 20 to the EEOC? 21 A. Yes, sir. I drafted a letter. I must have been 22 going on vacation because I left a note with the draft of this 23 letter to my employee relations generalist, Dwight Phillips, 24 and asked him to type it up. The note is -- it is actually 25 here: "Type this up rough draft and talk to Don," and this is 93 1 Don McCall. Because I would have had Don look at this letter 2 before I would have ever sent this to Human Relations 3 Commission. But I told Dwight it had to be mailed by Tuesday 4 and then gave him some directions as to what to do with the 5 letter. 6 Q. All right. So was the letter actually sent? 7 A. Yes, sir. It was sent dated June the 8th, 1987, 8 and it was signed by -- had my name but Dwight Phillips' 9 initials, so it was sent while I was gone. 10 Q. That letter was actually sent out while you were 11 on vacation? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. So this is two -- a little over two years before 14 the shooting, isn't it? 15 A. Right. 16 Q. Two years and three months? 17 A. (Nods head affirmatively). 18 Q. Read to the jury what the response was of 19 Standard Gravure to Mr. Wesbecker's complaint. 20 A. The June 8th letter? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. "Mr. Joseph Wesbecker was hired on 6-1-71 as a 23 journeyman pressman. Attached you will find a copy of the job 24 description for this position. As a journeyman, Mr. Wesbecker 25 is qualified to operate reels, folders and printing units and 94 1 is required to perform each function as needed, as determined 2 by the foreman. Approximately three to four years ago, Mr. 3 Wesbecker requested that he not be required to work the folder 4 any more than necessary. About a year ago, Mr. Wesbecker 5 asked his foreman again to not make him work the folder any 6 more than necessary. Mr. Wesbecker also made this request to 7 the pressroom superintendent. The superintendent talked with 8 the foreman and told him that Mr. Wesbecker should not be used 9 on the folder unless absolutely necessary. 10 In the fall, the pressroom superintendent 11 received a call from the company's employee assistance program 12 manager advising that Mr. Wesbecker was experiencing emotional 13 problems and asked if we could avoid placing Mr. Wesbecker in 14 a stressful situation. The superintendent in turn directed 15 the foreman to not place Mr. Wesbecker on the folder unless 16 there was no other qualified employee available. 17 Since September of 1986, Mr. Wesbecker has not 18 been required to work on the folder. He did work on the 19 secondary winder on eight occasions during this period of time 20 as the secondary man in charge. However, this job would not 21 be classified as stressful. Occasionally, light duty was 22 allowed in the past for employees returning after a 23 work-related injury, but only for a short period of time. 24 Standard Gravure Corporation contends that Mr. Wesbecker's 25 requests have been accommodated and denies any charge of 95 1 discrimination. 2 The company is willing to work with your office 3 to resolve the matter at hand. If you have any questions or 4 need additional information, you may reach me at 582-4330 or 5 at the above address." 6 Q. Did you have any conversations with Joseph 7 Wesbecker in connection with this investigation that was done? 8 A. No, sir; I did not. 9 Q. Why? 10 A. I'm not sure. 11 Q. Was he represented by an attorney in connection 12 with this complaint? 13 A. Well, at this time he was pretty much 14 represented by the Human Relations Commission. They -- all 15 the responses have to be directed to them, so I'm not sure if 16 he had an attorney at this particular time or not, but... 17 Q. Was it your feeling that it would have been 18 inappropriate to directly confront Mr. Wesbecker? 19 A. Yes. I believe that the company's -- what the 20 company should have done was respond through the Human 21 Relations Commission to try to work it out. Mr. Wesbecker was 22 also a member of the union, and normally when situations like 23 this occurred, the union representatives would talk to the 24 company about any problems the employees had. 25 Q. Did you have any discussions with any of the 96 1 union reps in connection with Mr. Wesbecker and his EEOC 2 complaint? 3 A. No, sir; I did not. 4 Q. Do you know whether or not Mr. Cox had any 5 discussions concerning any -- with any union employees? 6 A. I do not know that. 7 Q. What occurred next in connection with this 8 complaint? 9 A. Next I have a letter from the Human Relations 10 Commission from Mr. Mattingly. He refers to a meeting on June 11 the 16th, 1987. He said, "Pursuant to our meeting on June 12 16th, 1987, I am herein detailing a list of information and 13 items we will need to continue our investigation of the 14 above-cited complaint." I cannot honestly say I remember that 15 meeting with Mr. Mattingly. 16 Q. Would that have been while you were on vacation, 17 or do you recall? 18 A. Well, I don't know. I did not realize -- I do 19 not recall the meeting with Mr. Mattingly. 20 Q. Okay. Go ahead. 21 A. And then in this he's asking for a work force 22 breakdown of all union employees, a list of all employees 23 given light duty for any reason since July 1st of '85, and 24 other information. Do you want me to read the whole thing? 25 Q. If you can just paraphrase it, we're going to 97 1 have copies of it for everybody. 2 A. He asked for a copy of the company's personnel 3 policy manual governing assignment of light duties for 4 employees with physical or mental handicaps and the 5 opportunity to interview any and all employees who have been 6 given light duty during the last two years. He said that the 7 commission staff offers its cooperation in this investigation 8 and seeks yours in return. "We would much prefer to attempt a 9 conciliation of the nature we discussed on June the 16th. If 10 this is no longer seen as possible, please return the above 11 information to me by August the 10th, 1987." 12 Q. What would conciliation have been, Ms. Warman? 13 A. Well, since I don't remember the meeting, I 14 don't remember what the conciliation was. 15 Q. Generally, what is a conciliation in connection 16 with this? 17 A. How to fix the problem, the remedy, how to 18 accommodate Mr. Wesbecker's request or to come to some 19 agreement. 20 Q. Did you have any opinion or thoughts at that 21 time as to what could be done in connection with Mr. 22 Wesbecker's request? 23 MR. STOPHER: Objection, Your Honor. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Approach the bench. 25 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 98 1 JUDGE POTTER: What's the objection? 2 MR. STOPHER: We object to her opinions and 3 thoughts, was the question, as to what could be done. This is 4 a factual matter and she's entitled to testify as to what she 5 recalls was said and what was written, but to give her 6 opinions and thoughts about ways that things could have been 7 settled -- 8 JUDGE POTTER: As long as she keeps it to what 9 she thought at the time. As long as she says, "At the time I 10 thought we could do this." Does that meet your objection? 11 MR. STOPHER: Well, sir, partly, but I don't 12 think what her thoughts were and what possibilities were is 13 admissible. It's what was in fact done and not done. 14 JUDGE POTTER: As long as she keeps herself to 15 what she thought at that time, not looking back over at what 16 could have been done, I'm going to overrule the objection. 17 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 18 Q. At the time that this was occurring, did you 19 have any thoughts or remedies in mind concerning what could be 20 done to meet this problem that was being posed by Mr. 21 Wesbecker? 22 A. My thoughts at that time are I'm sure the same 23 as my thoughts are at this time, and that is that the company 24 felt it was bound by the union contract to have pressmen 25 fulfill all their obligations in the pressroom, and we could 99 1 not go outside the union contract and make accommodations such 2 as this. 3 Q. Well, was it the failure -- were you in fact 4 accommodating Mr. Wesbecker in not putting him on the folder? 5 Was what he wanted just some guarantee in writing? 6 A. Right. The accommodation of not putting him on 7 the folder was not really a problem. 8 Q. Because that had been done? 9 A. That had been done. And as I understood, it was 10 really not posing any problem whatsoever. My understanding 11 was that Mr. Wesbecker wanted a guarantee. He wanted a 12 written guarantee, the best as I can recall, that he would 13 never, ever have to work the folder again. And to my 14 knowledge, that had never been done. 15 Q. What else? What happened next in connection 16 with this investigation? 17 A. On August the 7th, 1987, we responded -- I 18 responded to Mr. Mattingly's letter, and at this point we had 19 obtained counsel to give us some ideas on how we should be 20 handling this situation. 21 Q. What was generally the response? We'll have the 22 letter in full in a minute, but generally tell the jury what 23 your response was. 24 A. It was basically the same response we had 25 already given. The response was that there had been occasions 100 1 when we had put employees on light duty after work-related 2 incidents and -- but that was not a permanent light-duty 3 assignment; that we don't have a -- we did not have a written 4 policy concerning light duty. We had never exempted employees 5 from working any particular function on a permanent basis, at 6 least in a written form, in a guaranteed form. And that we 7 had accommodated Mr. Moore -- Doctor David Moore's request to, 8 if possible, allow Mr. Wesbecker to work at places other than 9 the folder and that we would continue to do so, but that we 10 could not in good conscience exempt him from that duty 11 permanently. 12 Q. Doctor David Moore was who? 13 A. He was one of the doctors Mr. Wesbecker had been 14 seeing. He was his own physician. We had just received a 15 request from him. 16 Q. And was it that doctor that had recommended that 17 Mr. Wesbecker be taken off that particular job duty? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Go ahead. What happened next? 20 A. On August the 24th, we received another letter 21 from the Human Relations Commission. This was October 24th, 22 '87, from Mr. Mattingly, and basically Mr. Mattingly was 23 saying give us the information we asked for; that it's not 24 your position to determine what we can ask for and what we 25 should get; that we want you to provide the work force 101 1 breakdown, the same things he had asked for before, a list of 2 all the employees given light duty, a copy of the personnel 3 policy manual, and the opportunity to interview any or all 4 employees who had been given light duty during the last two 5 years. 6 Q. And what did you do in connection with that, Ms. 7 Warman? Did you respond directly or what did you do? 8 A. No. At this point, it looks like we started to 9 investigate again. We tried to comply with their request. 10 Q. What was done next? 11 A. Well, it appears that I talked to the pressroom 12 superintendent again. 13 Q. Would that have been -- 14 A. Don Cox. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. To try to determine the employees who had been 17 given light duty for any reason. There were no company 18 records that we kept on people who had been on light duty 19 after work-related injuries. There was no file I could go to 20 and pull it out and say here's everybody. So in order to get 21 that information I had to go back to the superintendent and 22 say, "To the best of your recollection, who has been on light 23 duty." 24 Q. What else did you do? 25 A. Well, we compiled the work force breakdown of 102 1 all the pressroom employees and responded -- tried to respond 2 to his letter. 3 Q. Then what occurred next? 4 A. On October the 16th, 1987, I did respond to that 5 letter saying, "Per your letter dated August 24th, '87, find 6 enclosed the following; One, a work force breakdown of all 7 pressroom employees; and, Two, a list of pressroom employees 8 who have been on light duty since 7-1-85. As I discussed with 9 you, we do not keep any records on whether or not an employee 10 is handicapped. We do not have a company policy governing the 11 assignment of light duty." And I again explained that -- as I 12 had stated in August 7th that -- "We've allowed light duty for 13 a few employees for a specific period of time to expedite 14 their return to work after having been off due to work-related 15 injuries; however, we have not kept written records on those 16 cases." And then I finalized it with "We've never exempted 17 employees from working a particular function on a permanent 18 basis. We will continue to accommodate Doctor David Moore's 19 request to, if possible, allow Mr. Wesbecker to work at places 20 other than the folder, but we cannot totally exempt him from 21 this duty permanently." And I attached the list of duties of 22 employees. 23 JUDGE POTTER: Yes, ma'am? 24 JUROR DUNCAN: Could they please speak up? 25 We're having trouble hearing, both of you. 103 1 A. And I attached a list of the employees who we 2 determined by memory had been on light duty, and that was 3 mailed on October 16th, 1987. 4 Q. Okay. What happened next? 5 A. December the 8th, 1987, we received another 6 letter from Mr. Mattingly from the Human Relations Commission, 7 and he is indicating in this that his investigation has 8 produced information different from what the company had 9 found, and actually is saying that his supervisor has directed 10 him to recommend a finding of probable cause to the January 11 antidiscrimination panel. 12 Q. That was going to be the coming January of 1988? 13 A. Yes. January of '88. And it says, "If you wish 14 to attempt some sort of negotiated settlement in this case, 15 please contact me before December 31st." 16 Q. Was anybody working with you at this time, Ms. 17 Warman, in handling this matter? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who? 20 A. We had counsel at that time who was helping me 21 work with this. 22 Q. Do you remember the names of the lawyers? 23 A. It started, I think, with a Mr. Kniffen. These 24 were attorneys that I had not worked with before. I don't 25 know whether they were contacts Mr. Shea had had or Mr. McCall 104 1 had had, but it started with a Mr. Kniffen, and then Mr. 2 Kniffen was killed in an automobile accident and Ivan Rich 3 then took over for him and assisted us in handling this 4 complaint. 5 Q. Were there any other people at Standard Gravure 6 assisting you in this investigation, like Mr. McCall? 7 A. Well, I would never have sent a letter out 8 concerning an EEO complaint without Mr. McCall's approval and 9 much discussion about the situation. 10 Q. Okay. Go ahead. What did you do after you got 11 the letter from EEOC that basically said that they were going 12 to find you as discriminating against Mr. Wesbecker? 13 A. Well, there are some other notes in here. 14 There's a note from Don McCall that says, "Paula, if they rule 15 against us, what is the penalty." The only thing I wrote on 16 the bottom of it was: "Remedy, colon," and I wrote nothing. 17 I'm not sure if Mr. McCall asked me to try to find out what 18 the penalty was. It appears that I tried to find that out, 19 but it appears that I did not write anything down on that -- 20 on that at that point. There are also some other notes in 21 here that are in my handwriting, but to be honest with you, 22 make no sense and I don't know where I really got them. It 23 just says bipolar disorder, manic depressive, and it has a 24 number beside it. 25 There were also some notes here about three 105 1 employees. It appears that I tried to go back and see who -- 2 what they could possibly be talking about. When they said our 3 investigation has already produced three employees who for 4 physical reasons are never asked to work the folder, I did 5 write down some names on a sheet of paper and, you know, it 6 says there are three names on here, one of them it says "makes 7 him nervous," the other one says "can't work the folder 8 because of high blood pressure," and another one says "he's 9 susceptible to seizures and working the folder makes him 10 nervous. Doctors have advised him not to do anything that 11 makes him nervous." So I guess these were people in my 12 investigation and I am sure, again, with Don Cox to try to 13 figure out what they were talking about since this had not 14 come up in my investigation prior to that. 15 Q. Then what happened? 16 A. Well, in January of '88, we received a letter 17 from the Human Relations Commission from a Gwendolyn Young, 18 who is the executive director, basically restating the case 19 and their findings on the case and saying that probable 20 cause -- they concluded probable cause and that they concluded 21 that the complainant was discriminated against because of his 22 handicap. 23 Q. What was the handicap? 24 A. Manic depressive, I guess. 25 Q. What's manic depression; do you know? 106 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. Do you know whether or not Prozac is used to 3 treat manic depression, Ms. Warman? 4 A. Do I now or did I then? 5 Q. Yes. Did you then? First, did you then? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Do you now? 8 A. Yes, I do. 9 Q. Does this mean that Standard Gravure is going to 10 suffer some type of penalty for discriminating against Mr. 11 Wesbecker? 12 A. As I understood it, it could, yes. 13 Q. What kind of penalties, as you understood it, 14 could they have incurred? 15 A. I never did figure out what kind of penalty they 16 would incur. I never did understand what the penalty would 17 be. 18 Q. All right. So what happened next? 19 A. Well, at this point again, I've called Mr. 20 Mattingly at some point, although there are no dates on this, 21 and it says that there would be a panel of three laymen and 22 normally represented by an attorney, a city attorney, I assume 23 they're talking about -- I don't know who they're talking 24 about. No legal judges and Wesbecker -- witnesses, it says 25 Wesbecker. Hearing will occur whether we're there or not. 107 1 Q. Was there a hearing? 2 A. Well, the letter that we received on January the 3 29th of '88, from the Human Relations Commission says, "This 4 written statement of findings of fact and conclusions should 5 provide respondent with an explanation of the basic facts and 6 evidence which support the probable-cause determination. 7 Pursuant to commission rules of procedure, the commission is 8 required to resolve the issues by conference and conciliation 9 in order to avoid a public hearing." So I think at that point 10 I pretty much turned this over to Don McCall because I would 11 not have known what to do with this at that point. 12 Q. Was Mr. Wesbecker represented by an attorney at 13 that point? 14 A. There's no documentation here to lead me to 15 believe one way or another if he was at that particular point. 16 I'm sorry. I don't know for sure. 17 Q. So how did the matter end up? You're fixing to 18 have a public hearing where they're going to hear these 19 charges of discrimination; is that right? 20 A. Well, no, I think what was going to happen was 21 that the Human Relations Commission wanted to meet to go over 22 these so that they could avoid a public hearing. 23 Q. And so did that occur? 24 A. There's a note in the file here dated July the 25 20th, '88. It's actually a letter from Elizabeth Shipley, a 108 1 compliance supervisor at the Human Relations Commission, 2 addressed to me again and it is regarding a hearing on the 3 Wesbecker case. And it says, "Your attorney, Jim Kniffen, has 4 not responded to phone calls and apparently is no longer 5 representing you. I have been unable to reach you by phone. 6 Please provide the name and phone number of your attorney in 7 order that a hearing may be held in the near future. Please 8 respond on or before July 25th of '88." And I believe the 9 hearing they were referring to was with the Human Relations 10 Commission, a meeting between the commission and the company 11 officials. 12 This note has -- excuse me, this letter has 13 notes on the bottom of it that are Don McCall's handwriting, 14 and I can't read all of them, but the first one I can read and 15 it said, "Called 7-26-88," which was -- if that's correct, 16 that's six days after the letter had been written -- "and 17 spoke with Elizabeth Shipley." So Don had taken over at that 18 point. He was dealing directly with Ms. Shipley. 19 Q. So do you know what happened in connection with 20 Mr. Wesbecker's complaint? 21 A. My recollection is that Mr. McCall met with Mr. 22 Wesbecker, I believe his attorney, and I'm not sure who else 23 was in the meeting, because I was not in the meeting. This 24 was something that Mr. McCall did. And I don't know that 25 after that meeting there was really much of a resolution -- 109 1 Q. Well -- 2 A. -- at that point. 3 Q. And now we're talking about July of '88? 4 A. Right. In July '88. 5 Q. So this thing has gone on a year, basically, has 6 it not? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What's your understanding with respect to 9 whether or not Mr. Wesbecker worked during that year, or do 10 you know? 11 A. Mr. Wesbecker went on sick pay sometime in '88. 12 I think he had been working -- I'm not sure consistently, but 13 I think he had been working up until that time. 14 Q. Do you know whether he had been placed ever back 15 on the folder? 16 A. To my knowledge he had never been placed back on 17 the folder since September of '86. 18 Q. So do you have any knowledge whatsoever, Ms. 19 Warman, what happened to Mr. Wesbecker's EEOC complaint? 20 A. Yes, I do. It appears that in November of '88, 21 Ivan Rich, who was then representing Standard Gravure, sent a 22 letter to me saying, "Pursuant to our telephone conversation, 23 enclosed please find Herb Segal's letter regarding Social 24 Security disability and the report of Doctor Coleman." At 25 this point, the attorneys -- it appears Mr. Segal was 110 1 representing Mr. Wesbecker, and Ivan Rich and Mr. Segal were 2 sending correspondence back and forth. 3 The letter that was attached to this November 4 28th, '88 letter from Mr. Rich says, "Enclosed please find 5 Doctor Coleman's medical evaluation upon which Social Security 6 based its finding that Mr. Wesbecker is entitled to Social 7 Security benefits commencing February 1989. Now that you have 8 this, let's move forward expeditiously for all the reasons we 9 have previously discussed. Please make me a total-package 10 offer so that we can resolve this matter one way or another." 11 Then Mr. Rich responded to that letter of Mr. 12 Segal's. On December the 1st, 1988, Mr. Rich sent a letter to 13 Mr. Segal stating, "This is in response to your letter of 14 November the 22nd, 1988. I have reviewed Mr. Wesbecker's 15 medical file. There appears to be no question that he is 16 disabled and entitled to benefits under the company's 17 long-term disability plan. An application for benefits is 18 enclosed. Mr. Wesbecker's benefits would be as outlined in my 19 letter to you of October 26, 1988. 20 "The company has carefully considered whether 21 Mr. Wesbecker is entitled to any additional benefits or 22 payments and concluded that he has no meritorious claim. Any 23 lawsuit or workers' compensation claim by Mr. Wesbecker will 24 be vigorously contested by the company. 25 "If Mr. Wesbecker wishes to apply for long-term 111 1 disability, please have him fill out the enclosed form and 2 return it to the company along with a copy of the Social 3 Security Administration's determination. His application will 4 be processed promptly and benefits will commence in February." 5 Q. Who signed that letter? 6 A. Ivan Rich. 7 Q. Standard Gravure's attorney? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Did you have anything to do with any of that, 10 Ms. Warman? 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. So what does that mean that the matter was 13 resolved by virtue of Mr. Wesbecker being placed on company 14 long-term disability benefits? 15 A. Well, I don't know that I would interpret that 16 as the matter was resolved because the company is still saying 17 that he has no meritorious claim, so basically what they're 18 saying is that we are all in agreement that he is entitled to 19 long-term disability and if that's an avenue he wants to 20 pursue, he certainly has a right to do that. 21 Q. And did he do that? 22 A. Yes, he did. 23 Q. And did he make any other claims for any other 24 workers' compensation benefits or discrimination benefits 25 against Standard Gravure, as far as you know? 112 1 A. No, sir. 2 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, I'm at the point where 3 I'm going to switch gears, I think. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Why don't you finish up your 5 direct and then we'll take a lunch break. 6 MR. SMITH: It may take 45 minutes or an hour, 7 Your Honor. Ms. Warman was shot, also. 8 JUDGE POTTER: I understand. Ladies and 9 gentlemen, we'll go ahead and take the lunch recess at this 10 point. As I've mentioned to you before, do not permit anyone 11 to speak with you on any topic connected with this trial. Do 12 not discuss it among yourselves and do not permit anyone to 13 discuss it with you. We'll stand in recess until 2:00. 14 (RECESS) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 112 1 A. No, sir. 2 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, I'm at the point where 3 I'm going to switch gears, I think. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Why don't you finish up your 5 direct and then we'll take a lunch break. 6 MR. SMITH: It may take 45 minutes or an hour, 7 Your Honor. Ms. Warman was shot, also. 8 JUDGE POTTER: I understand. Ladies and 9 gentlemen, we'll go ahead and take the lunch recess at this 10 point. As I've mentioned to you before, do not permit anyone 11 to speak with you on any topic connected with this trial. Do 12 not discuss it among yourselves and do not permit anyone to 13 discuss it with you. We'll stand in recess until 2:00. 14 (RECESS) 15 SHERIFF CECIL: All jurors present; the Court is 16 back in session. 17 JUDGE POTTER: Please be seated. Ladies and 18 gentlemen of the jury, we hope we've gotten one microphone 19 plugged in, put a battery in another microphone. But, 20 hopefully, you'll be able to hear a lot easier. 21 One of you-all mentioned to my sheriff that 22 somebody called and said they saw you on television. I've 23 checked with the people that do the television within the 24 courtroom and they assure me that no juror was on that 25 television. It may have been one of these people -- you know 113 1 how they do a stand-up thing on the street or something like 2 that, and they saw you in the background or out on the 3 pavement. If you think the person saw you in the courtroom, 4 would you let my sheriff know and I'll try to get it 5 straightened out? Because that's not supposed to happen. 6 Ms. Warman, I remind you you're still under 7 oath. 8 Mr. Smith? 9 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, at this time we have 10 copies of these exhibits. I guess the sheriff will be back in 11 a minute. 12 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. I'll get her to pass them 13 out as soon as she gets back. 14 Q. Ms. Warman, would you turn, please, to the 15 conciliation agreement there in front of you that was finally 16 executed by Standard Gravure and Mr. Wesbecker. 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. And when is that dated, please, ma'am? 19 A. December 30th, 1988. 20 Q. And I see some other dates, January 27th, 1989? 21 A. Yes, sir. Excuse me. The letter that is on the 22 front of this is dated December the 30th, 1988. It is a 23 letter from Ivan Rich to Elizabeth Shipley, and the actual 24 agreement is dated -- I believe that's January 27th, '89, and 25 maybe by Dan Mattingly and then maybe January 30th, '89, by 114 1 Gwendolyn Young. And Mr. McCall's signature -- Donald 2 McCall's signature is on it, also, but I cannot read the date 3 on this. 4 Q. Okay. Would you read for the jury Paragraph 7 5 because, as I understand it, that's the guts of what Standard 6 Gravure agreed to do and what apparently Mr. Wesbecker agreed 7 in connection with this complaint. 8 A. Yes, sir. It says, "Respondent agrees that in 9 the event Mr. Wesbecker is able to return to work, the company 10 will make reasonable accommodation for any mental handicap he 11 may continue to suffer in accordance with its prior practice 12 applicable to all employees. Specifically, Mr. Wesbecker 13 would be employed with neither more nor less security than his 14 fellow journeymen. In addition, the company agrees not to use 15 Mr. Wesbecker's handicap as an excuse for dismissal, nor will 16 it place him in a job which he cannot perform and then use 17 nonperformance as an excuse for dismissal." 18 Q. Now, did you have anything to do with the 19 language in this, Ms. Warman, or is this something that was 20 worked out between the lawyers? 21 A. This is something that was worked out between 22 the lawyers. As I understand, the one person Mr. Wesbecker 23 thought had a written guarantee that he would never have to 24 work the folder was Mr. Ganote, and this language was actually 25 taken out of the agreement Mr. Ganote had with the company. 115 1 He had been injured at work and this language was in his 2 agreement. 3 Q. Did you ever specifically discuss this agreement 4 or this language in this agreement with Mr. Wesbecker himself? 5 A. No, sir; I did not. 6 Q. Up to January 27th, 1989, Ms. Warman, did you 7 have any discussions with Joseph Wesbecker at all in 8 connection with anything? 9 A. No, sir; I did not. 10 Q. What was the next thing you did in connection 11 with Mr. Wesbecker? 12 A. I believe the next thing was to calculate his 13 long-term disability benefits. 14 Q. On January 27th, 1989, when this conciliatory 15 agreement was signed, was Mr. Wesbecker physically employed at 16 Standard Gravure, working on a day-to-day basis? 17 A. In January of '89? 18 Q. Yes, ma'am. 19 A. No, sir. He was off on sick pay. 20 Q. Sick pay. And what's your understanding as to 21 what the nature of his illness was? 22 A. Manic depressive was the nature of his illness, 23 as far as I knew. 24 Q. A mental condition? 25 A. A mental condition. 116 1 Q. In other words, as far as you were aware, his 2 sick leave was not related to any physical injury or physical 3 impairment, but was related to a mental illness? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Did you make any judgment whatsoever, Ms. 6 Warman, in connection with whether or not he should or 7 shouldn't be granted sick pay by virtue of the nature of his 8 disability? 9 A. No. I didn't make any decision about whether or 10 not he would receive sick pay. He was receiving sick pay. We 11 had doctors' statements and he was given sick pay. 12 Q. What was the company's policy in connection with 13 sick pay versus long-term disability with someone whose 14 illness or condition that prevented them from work continued 15 over a period of time? 16 A. An employee would go on sick pay first before he 17 would ever go on long-term disability. 18 Q. What was the amount of their pay at that time? 19 A. For a union employee there was -- it was 20 basically 50 percent. I think there was a -- the first 2 21 weeks might be full pay, the next 2 weeks no pay, and then 50 22 percent of his basic annual compensation for 6 months, and he 23 would have been on sick pay for 6 months prior to going on 24 long-term disability. 25 Q. And did he go on long-term disability? 117 1 A. Yes, sir; he did. 2 Q. And when was that? 3 A. Based on my notes I have here, 3-22-89. March 4 22, '89. He was paid sick pay through February 17th of '89. 5 He had 22 holidays and vacation days that he had accumulated 6 and was paid for that, and then he actually began on long-term 7 disability March the 22nd, 1989. 8 Q. Did you in your capacity as employee relations 9 manager issue a letter to Mr. Wesbecker explaining those 10 benefits, the long-term disability benefits to him? 11 A. Yes, sir; I did. 12 Q. What's that letter dated, please, ma'am? 13 A. February 27th, 1989. 14 Q. What did that letter say? 15 A. "This is to advise that your long-term 16 disability benefits will begin on March 22nd, 1989. You will 17 receive your first check on April the 1st, 1989, in the amount 18 of $1,420.94. This will represent payment for March 22nd 19 through the 31st in the amount of $351.60 and $1,069.34 for 20 the month of April. On May 1, and continuing each month 21 through the month of August, you will receive a check in the 22 amount of $1,069.34. Your September check will be in the 23 amount of $854.10. Beginning October 1st, and continuing each 24 month thereafter for the duration of your disablement until 25 age 65, your monthly payment will be $391.21. It will be 118 1 necessary that you complete the enclosed W-4P for tax 2 purposes. I have also enclosed a letter which you need to 3 sign concerning medical benefits. 4 As you may know, effective January 1st, 1989, we 5 began charging medical insurance premiums to our retired, 6 widowed, and disabled employees. The premium for your 7 coverage at this time is $78 per month. This amount will be 8 deducted from your monthly LTD check, unless you elect to 9 discontinue your coverage. Please return the completed W-4P 10 and insurance letter to my attention as soon as possible. If 11 you have any questions or need additional information, please 12 advise." 13 Q. Now, was this explanation of benefits to Mr. 14 Wesbecker any different from any of the other benefits for any 15 of the other Standard Gravure employees? 16 A. No, sir. It's the same. 17 Q. It mentions there that on October 1st, 1989, his 18 benefits would go down to $391.21; is that right? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. What is the reason for that? 21 A. The long-term disability plan which had been in 22 effect for many years -- it was the same plan that was in 23 effect at The Courier-Journal -- was what they called a Social 24 Security offset plan, and the first six months you received 50 25 percent of your basic annual compensation with no offsets, and 119 1 then beginning with the seventh month, your Social Security 2 benefit was deducted; the amount of your benefit went to 60 3 percent of your basic annual compensation less whatever you 4 were receiving from Social Security. 5 Q. So is that what that computation of $391.21 is? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. What he was receiving from a check from Standard 8 Gravure; is that right? 9 A. That's correct. He was going to get $391.21 10 from Standard Gravure because he was getting $892 from Social 11 Security. 12 Q. So the net effect then would be what? Would he 13 be getting more or less or the same as of October 1st, 1989? 14 A. He would actually be getting more because he 15 would be getting 60 percent of his salary with a combination 16 of those two as opposed to 50 percent of his salary, which he 17 had gotten before. 18 Q. So it's inaccurate to say that Mr. Wesbecker's 19 income would have just been $391.21 as of October 1st, 1989? 20 A. That's correct. That would have been inaccurate 21 to say that. He was receiving an additional $892 from Social 22 Security. 23 Q. So if you compared what he would get net income 24 or gross income September versus the month of October, would 25 October be more, less or the same? 120 1 A. October should have been more than he received 2 in September. 3 Q. Did you ever have any discussions with Mr. 4 Wesbecker in connection with this explanation-of-benefits 5 letter that you sent him on February 27th, 1989? 6 A. No, sir; I did not. 7 Q. Did you actually make those computations that 8 are described there? 9 A. Yes, sir; I did. 10 Q. And do we have a copy of your notes there making 11 those computations? 12 A. Yes, sir; we do. 13 Q. After you sent the letter of February 27th, 14 1989, what happened next in connection with Mr. Wesbecker? 15 Did he fill out the forms that he was asked to fill out? 16 A. He filled out the LTD forms and the W-4P and 17 also Request for Final Distribution from his TIP account, his 18 401K, but he still had not acknowledged or signed the letter 19 that stated that he wanted to continue insurance, so I sent 20 him a letter on March the 9th telling him that we had received 21 those other documents, and in order to finalize the 22 arrangements with First Kentucky Trust to begin his LTD 23 payments, he needed to advise us concerning his medical 24 insurance coverage continuation. And then I reiterated, "If 25 you wish to continue your coverage at the current cost of $78 121 1 per month, it will be necessary that you sign the enclosed 2 letter concerning your insurance and forward same to my 3 attention immediately. If you do not return the completed 4 letter, we will assume you wish to discontinue your coverage." 5 And then I received the letter signed by Mr. Wesbecker to 6 continue his insurance. 7 Q. So he was on maximum long-term disability 8 benefits in March of '89, and he took the benefits of the 9 group health insurance; is that right? 10 A. Right. He did. 11 Q. Does that mean that Standard Gravure's group 12 health insurance carrier would have continued to pay for his 13 medical expenses? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Would that mean that if he incurred expenses 16 from Doctor Lee Coleman, for instance, his psychiatrist, that 17 they would have been paid by Standard Gravure's group health 18 insurance plan? 19 A. They would have been paid, as far as I know; 20 yes, sir. 21 Q. Did you have anything to do with authorization 22 of those payments? 23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. How was that handled? 25 A. He submitted his insurance -- his doctors' 122 1 statements directly to the insurance company and then they 2 made the payment from there. 3 Q. Did you ever have any communication from Mr. 4 Wesbecker in connection with any problems he was having with 5 the group health insurance carrier in paying his medical 6 expenses? 7 A. No, sir; I did not. 8 Q. Did you ever hear, Ms. Warman, of any talk or 9 any discussions between any of the management employees there 10 at Standard Gravure concerning any potential threats or 11 problems that Mr. Wesbecker was causing? 12 A. At sometime during -- and I can't remember. I 13 believe this was prior to Mr. Wesbecker being off on sick pay, 14 I became aware that Don Cox had some concern about Mr. 15 Wesbecker and, specifically, as I recall, this was about not 16 anything at the workplace, but about Mr. Cox lived very close 17 to Mr. Wesbecker, like in the same subdivision or very close 18 to him, and there was more of a concern for his family about 19 Mr. Wesbecker. 20 Q. Now, Don Cox was the pressroom superintendent? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. And did you talk with Mr. Cox about this 23 directly or did you overhear a conversation? Tell us how that 24 came about. 25 A. Well, to be perfectly honest with you, I cannot 123 1 sit here and say that I know for sure that that conversation 2 came straight from Mr. Cox. It could have either come from 3 him or from Grady Throneberry. My recollection is that the 4 conversation was the combination of the three of us, Grady, 5 Don Cox and myself. I do not recall Mr. Cox saying that he 6 had been threatened. I don't know whether his concern was 7 based on rumors maybe that he had heard or whether he just 8 thought that Mr. Wesbecker might cause some problems. I'm 9 really -- I'm very unclear on that, but that is the only time 10 I remember any conversation about Mr. Wesbecker and any 11 possible concern with him. 12 Q. Do you recall whether or not there was any 13 suggestions by you or Mr. Throneberry in connection with 14 security for Mr. Cox and whether this would be something that 15 should or shouldn't be done? 16 A. I believe that Mr. Cox was offered security at 17 his home and declined that, did not feel strongly enough about 18 it to want that. 19 Q. Did you ever hear anything direct concerning the 20 nature of the threat or the time this threat might have 21 occurred? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Do you know how it was coming to your attention? 24 Was Mr. Cox coming to you-all? Did you just happen to be 25 sitting in a break room or something? What were the 124 1 circumstances? 2 A. I believe Mr. Cox came to us to talk about it. 3 Q. Did Mr. Cox seem concerned, from what you 4 observed? 5 A. Well, he was concerned enough to bring it to our 6 attention, to at least talk about it, but then when he was 7 asked if he, you know -- if he wanted some protection at his 8 home, he declined that. 9 Q. Can you pinpoint for the jury any particular 10 time? Would this have been before the EEOC complaint or 11 afterwards, or do you know? 12 A. I do not remember. I'm sorry. 13 Q. Were you under the impression that Mr. Wesbecker 14 was still actively an employee on the Standard Gravure 15 premises at this time? 16 A. I -- I really can't answer that question. I 17 cannot put a time on it. I don't know whether he was perhaps 18 on sick pay, maybe, or right before that time. I'm sure -- 19 no, I'm not sure of anything, so I don't know. 20 Q. Did you feel any threat? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you have any concern about a volatile 23 situation existing out there at Standard Gravure at that time? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did Mr. Cox express some volatile situation 125 1 going on? 2 A. No. That was the only concern that was ever 3 mentioned about Mr. Wesbecker to me. 4 Q. But Mr. Cox declined any security at his home? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Were you employed and working on September 14th, 7 1989, Ms. Warman? 8 A. Yes, sir; I was. 9 Q. What time did you arrive at the premises? 10 A. I started to work at 8:30, so I normally got 11 there about 5 to 10 minutes before that starting time. 12 Q. Let's see if we can get this exhibit back and 13 see if we can trace your route. All right. This is the third 14 floor -- 15 A. Do you want me to come down? 16 Q. Let me see if I can angle this around a little 17 bit more. Why don't you talk us through, and I'll point it 18 out as we get through this because you've got the microphone 19 there. And remember to speak up. 20 A. All right. I parked in the parking lot off of 21 Armory Street, back by the shipping and receiving area and 22 entered in through the shipping area, came up the elevator, 23 the freight elevator to the third floor. 24 Q. Would this be Elevator No. 9, the same elevator 25 that Ms. Bowman was describing? 126 1 A. Yes, sir. That would be the same. 2 Q. What route did you take? 3 A. I came through those double doors into the 4 administration offices. My office was the first door to the 5 right after you came through those two doors. The personnel 6 office was right there, and my office was directly behind 7 that, right there. Yes. That's correct. I went into my 8 office and I have a morning ritual, as I'm sure a lot of 9 people do. I picked up my coffee cup and put down my purse 10 and went out to wash my coffee cup. My door was usually -- 11 the personnel door was open if there was someone in the 12 office. If there was no one in the office, it stayed closed, 13 but the people who reported to me, the person who reported to 14 me came in at 8:00, and so, as I recall, that door was open, 15 and at least to the best of my memory. And Lisa -- Lisa 16 Grady, who worked for me sometimes, opened my office. I can't 17 tell you for sure if it was open but, anyway, I went into my 18 office and picked up my coffee cup, and then I came back out 19 of my office and started down the hall toward the receptionist 20 area. 21 Q. Down this way? 22 A. Right. When I got to where it makes its turn to 23 the right to go down toward the rest room -- 24 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Warman, I don't mean to 25 interrupt you, but if it would be easier for you to step down, 127 1 you're free to do so. 2 JUROR FELKER: Can we raise the picture? 3 JUDGE POTTER: I think you had them low because 4 of the previous witness. 5 Q. Why don't we start back again, Paula, where you 6 got off the elevator. 7 A. All right. I came off this elevator right here 8 and came into this hallway through these doors here and 9 entered the personnel office right here and then into my 10 office, which is right here. Picked up my coffee cup, came 11 back out, followed this same hallway down to here and then 12 took a right, came around here to the women's rest room, and I 13 went in and washed out my coffee cup, came back out, continued 14 to follow this path around to the coffee pot, which was out 15 here in the aisleway, got my coffee and came right back this 16 way. I kind of made a circle, came back this way to the main 17 hall here and back into the personnel office, and then into my 18 office. 19 Q. Were there people in these offices by -- what 20 was it, 8:25, something like that? 21 A. There were definitely people out in this area 22 because a lot of these folks started at eight o'clock. I'm 23 not sure -- Jo Anne would have been here because she started 24 at eight. I'm not sure who would have been in the sales 25 office at that time. 128 1 Q. Did you happen to go into the lobby area to 2 speak with Angela Bowman or Ms. Needy? 3 A. I saw Angela that morning. I don't know that I 4 actually went into her office, but I did see her enough to 5 know what she had on that morning. 6 Q. Where was she? 7 A. She was out in this area, in the lobby area. 8 Q. You could see into the receptionist's desk from 9 this area in here? 10 A. Between here and here, yeah, you could see in 11 there, and I may have even looked in to see if she was there 12 and spoken to her. That would not have been uncommon to speak 13 to whomever I saw that morning. 14 Q. Are you close to Angela or is she just another 15 niece as far as you're concerned? Is she a favorite niece? 16 A. I'd hate to say she's a favorite niece or my 17 other niece would get mad. I was very close to Angela and am 18 very close to Angela. 19 Q. Were you instrumental in her getting her job or 20 did she do that on her own? 21 A. No. Angela pretty much did that on her own. 22 She deserved that job and I think there was no question she 23 should have had it. 24 Q. You didn't pull any strings for her to get that 25 job, did you? 129 1 A. No, I did not. 2 Q. As employee relations manager, were you in the 3 function of hiring and firing employees or were you dealing 4 mostly with benefits? 5 A. We didn't do a lot of hiring and firing at that 6 time. We were mostly dealing with benefits, but when we did 7 hire, yes, it came through my office. And if we had any 8 discipline problems, they went through their supervisor and 9 then to me if it needed to get to that point. 10 Q. But you didn't have any dealings with Angela in 11 connection with her application for employment? 12 A. The application was taken in the personnel 13 department, yes; we would have accepted her application, but 14 the hiring decision was made by Mr. Mitchell. 15 Q. All right. Now, I think where we are is you're 16 back -- you've made the circle around and you're back in your 17 office; is that right? 18 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. 19 Q. What next called your attention? 20 A. Well, I had not even put my coffee cup down when 21 I heard some noises that I could not identify at that time and 22 a scream. I'm not sure if there was one scream or two 23 screams, but there were screams. And so I immediately put my 24 coffee cup down in my office. I had not sat down from getting 25 my coffee. I put my coffee cup down and I headed into -- I 130 1 came out my door into the personnel office and stepped into 2 the main hallway right here. I had barely gotten out of the 3 office, I believe that when I made the turn I was coming out, 4 I don't think my whole body was exposed when the next thing I 5 knew I was on the ground and I was back in the personnel 6 office. 7 Q. This area here? 8 A. Yes, sir. Right in front of the door, right 9 here. I was laying in this area right here. 10 Q. Did you -- were you able -- when you were shot 11 were you able to see down this hall? 12 A. I saw nothing. At least, if I did, my mind 13 didn't register it. 14 Q. Were you far enough into the hall to where you 15 could have been seen by Mr. Wesbecker as he's standing down 16 here shooting down this hall, or do you know? 17 A. I don't know. 18 Q. Where were you physically shot? 19 A. The first bullet entered right about here and 20 exited back here. And then I had another shot that entered 21 about here and exited back here. 22 Q. Now, would you have been coming out and looking 23 down that hall with your left side facing down toward the 24 reception area? 25 A. Yes, sir. 131 1 Q. So you don't think you were all the way out into 2 the hall? 3 A. No. I don't think I was all the way out. The 4 bullet holes that were left in the wall behind me were more in 5 the corner where this -- where's the hall door -- well, the 6 first door here, they were right here in this corner, the 7 bullet holes that we could see after I came back to work were 8 there, so I believe the shot happened as I barely entered. 9 Q. Now, as you were hit and knocked back into here, 10 did you hear shots continue, or do you know? 11 A. At that point I had no idea what had happened. 12 Q. Did you even know you were shot? 13 A. Not at that moment. Jackie Miller was working 14 in my department at that time. She was a floater, that means 15 that she was hired by the accounting department, but she did 16 work wherever we needed her, and she had been assisting in the 17 personnel department. There were two desks. This was one and 18 this was -- this is where Lisa sat and this is where Jackie 19 sat. As I was here on the ground on the floor after I had 20 been shot, what my mind registered was the back of Jackie. 21 Jackie was in the office at that time, and I believe she was 22 coming toward me or was behind me here as I entered the 23 hallway, but after I fell what I recall was seeing the back of 24 Jackie headed over to this area, and she said, "Oh, my God, 25 he's got a gun." And it was at that point I realized what had 132 1 happened to me. I had not realized I had been shot until that 2 time. 3 Q. Do you know whether Ms. Miller actually came in 4 the hall and saw somebody or whether she -- do you know what 5 she based her opinion that she said, "Oh, my God, he's got a 6 gun"? 7 A. She must have seen him but I'm not -- as I 8 recall, she was behind me here. What happened after I fell, I 9 don't know where she was. I don't know whether she was in a 10 position where she stuck her head out the door or what she 11 did. I'm not sure. But she obviously saw him and saw that he 12 had a weapon. 13 Q. Okay. You're down? 14 A. I'm down. 15 Q. What do you do? 16 A. Well, at that point Jackie starts giving me 17 orders. She was thinking. And she said, "Get in your office 18 and close the door." And so that's what I did. I never got 19 to my feet, but I drug myself into this office and I closed my 20 door. I may have locked it, I'm not sure if I did or not. I 21 pushed the door to and then, the best I can recall, is more 22 shots, but in my mind they came from this area -- this area, 23 outside those two double doors that we entered into, they came 24 from out here, that way. My office kind of sat out here by 25 itself. As I was told, it was kind of an afterthought to put 133 1 that office in, so it was not part of the main area, and I did 2 hear some machines running and things like that, so it was -- 3 Q. That morning or are you just talking about -- 4 A. No. In general. When machines were running I 5 could tell they were running. So I heard shots, but they 6 sounded to me like they were coming from the conveyer area, 7 conveyer print shop. 8 Q. Okay. What occurred next? You heard these 9 shots. Where is Ms. Miller at this time? 10 A. Well, I wasn't sure. The first thing I did was 11 to crawl to my desk, pull over to my desk and I pulled the 12 phone off the wall -- off the desk and dialed 911. I tried to 13 call for some help. I'm not sure if I made any sense, but I 14 know I did call and someone answered the phone. And then 15 after that, it was silence. And so the door was shut, and I'm 16 concerned at that point about what else is going on, and so I 17 did call out to Jackie and I asked her, I said, "Have you been 18 shot?" And she said, "Yes, I've been shot; have you called 19 911?" And I told her I had done that. Sometime after that, I 20 think I did try to talk with Jackie one more time and she -- 21 she asked me to be quiet. She was afraid he was going to come 22 back. I think she may have said something like, "He may come 23 back." 24 Q. Were you still hearing gunshots at this time? 25 A. No. No. It was dead silence. And so I did 134 1 quit talking to her. I just wanted to be sure she was still 2 alive, and then the phone started ringing and I tried to 3 decide in that split second what am I going to do with this. 4 If this is a person who is calling about -- a retiree calling 5 about a benefit or something what am I going to say to this 6 person and how am I going to get them off the phone without 7 exciting them, too, and I picked up the phone and it was Kathy 8 Johnson, who was one of the employees in the data processing 9 area. 10 Q. Where would that have been, Jackie -- I mean, 11 Paula? 12 A. Right here in this area. This was data 13 processing, back into this maze and off this way. This was 14 the data processing. And she said something to me about, "Is 15 somebody shooting," and I said, "Yes, and some of us have been 16 shot. Please call 911." And she was visibly -- not visibly, 17 but you could hear it in her voice that she was just in 18 terror. And so she said okay, got off the phone and that was 19 the last I heard of her. And then the next thing that 20 happened was I guess the police coming in. And the police -- 21 Q. How much time elapsed, Paula, between the time 22 that you were shot and the time the police came? 23 A. I really have no conception of that. I did not 24 look at any clock when any of it happened, and I really don't 25 know how long I had been there. 135 1 Q. Okay. So what happened when the police came in? 2 A. Well, when the police came, I must have heard 3 them outside the door. For some reason I opened my door and 4 when the policeman came in, he did come up to me and I was on 5 the floor, and he pulled my skirt up and he looked at my 6 wounds, and I said to him, I said, "It couldn't be too bad 7 because I can still move my leg." He never said a word. He 8 just looked at me. He went back and stood in the door. I 9 don't know whether he went to Jackie or not. 10 Q. Which door would it be he stood in? 11 A. This door right here. And he stayed in that 12 door. 13 Q. Were you aware that there were other policemen 14 inside the building or did you know? 15 A. Yeah. I believe I was aware that there were 16 other policemen in the building because he had a two-way radio 17 and there was a lot of chatter on that radio, and I was 18 listening to as much as I could understand about what was 19 being said at that time. One of the major concerns was that 20 they didn't know where the shooter was, and Standard Gravure 21 was a maze. There were a lot of hallways and doors and things 22 down through the plant, and it would have been very hard for 23 people who were not familiar with the plant to try to find 24 anybody. So there was a lot of concern on the police part 25 because they didn't know where he was and whether he was going 136 1 to come back or exactly what was happening. It was sometime 2 during this that I heard over the police radio that they 3 didn't know where he was, that they were not sure where he was 4 going. And I became concerned myself that he was going to 5 come back. 6 Q. What about the policeman? Did he seem 7 concerned? 8 A. He was real concerned. I started to move around 9 on the floor. I was kind of in front of two chairs that sat 10 right here in my office, and so I was kind of in this area and 11 I started looking for cover. I wanted to get out of the way. 12 And so I started moving. I was dragging myself around the 13 floor, and he said, "You know you need to keep your head down 14 because you'll bleed more if your head is up." So I did. I 15 laid back down on the floor and he left this door for an 16 instant, he was gone for just a minute, and when he came 17 back -- and my recollection was that he didn't leave the 18 department but that he came back from somewhere, I think in 19 this area -- and he walked in and he laid a handgun down in 20 front of me, and I was pretty much up underneath one of these 21 chairs. And he laid a handgun down in front of me, and he 22 said, "Do you know how to use this?" And I said, "I think I 23 can." And I think what he was doing was that he was afraid 24 that whoever came back, if he came back that he was not going 25 to be able to stop him and he was giving me as much protection 137 1 as he possibly could to stop this. And the terror on his face 2 was I'm sure the same as the terror on my face at that time. 3 He was -- they were scared to death because they didn't really 4 know what was facing them. 5 Q. What happened next? 6 A. At some point the message came over that he was 7 down over the two-way radio, that whoever it was had shot 8 himself. And there was some information then I think about 9 that he had been a former employee or someone who was on 10 long-term disability. I don't know that I knew at that time 11 that it was Mr. Wesbecker or whether I heard that after 12 everything was over. 13 Q. But you didn't see him that morning? 14 A. No. No. 15 Q. All right. Go ahead. 16 A. So after that -- after they determined that he 17 was down, then EMS came in. They basically just came in and 18 looked at me, and then they went over and looked at Jackie and 19 they stayed with Jackie. And sometime thereafter, the police 20 came in. I believe there were two of them, one took my head 21 and my arms, the other one took my feet and they carried me 22 out down this way toward the reception area here. And when we 23 got to the reception area, there was a person laying over here 24 by the wall, and I -- it dawned on me that Angela worked the 25 reception area in the morning. And so when they sat me down 138 1 they sat me on my side away from this area, away from where 2 this person was so that I could not see. And I said, "I need 3 to know who that is." And they said, "No, you don't look at 4 that." 5 "But you've got to understand, I've got to know 6 who that is." And all I could do was look back over my 7 shoulder and I determined it was not Angela's clothes, but 8 that's all I knew. I couldn't see who that person was. I 9 couldn't recognize that person. 10 So before they put me on the elevator, when they 11 picked me up to get me going, Grady Throneberry, who was the 12 safety and security manager and Tom Gault, who was the plant 13 manager, appeared in this doorway right here, and before they 14 put me on the elevator I turned to Grady and I said, "I've got 15 to know where Angela is; you have got to find Angela." And he 16 stood there and looked at me as I got on the elevator. They 17 put me on the elevator, took me down to the sidewalk, took me 18 out, laid me on the sidewalk because there were no ambulances 19 over there, and they flagged down, I believe, a police car, 20 maybe again, an unmarked police car, I'm not really sure, and 21 put me in the backseat of that, pushing and pulling and put me 22 into the backseat, and then we went to the hospital. 23 Q. Do you know how long it was, Paula, from the 24 time you were shot until the time you were taken from the 25 premises at Standard Gravure that morning? 139 1 A. No. I have no conception. 2 Q. Why don't you sit back down. 3 Had you, Paula, ever been threatened by anyone 4 at Standard Gravure? 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. Were you ever afraid to go to work at Standard 7 Gravure? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. Is there a note in this file talking about -- 10 from Mr. Mattingly talking about it might be danger -- some 11 type of danger for Mr. Wesbecker to be on the folder? 12 A. The only danger that I thought that he ever 13 referred to was for a safety-related matter about him working 14 the folder but as... 15 Q. Safety for other employees by virtue of some 16 accident on the folder? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. Not a danger as to what Mr. Wesbecker might do 19 if he were continued on the folder to other employees? 20 A. Right. No, strictly because of his ability to 21 work the folder with his condition. 22 MR. SMITH: At this time, Your Honor, we would 23 like to offer Plaintiffs' Exhibits 1 through 29, which are Ms. 24 Warman's notes and the personnel file in connection with this 25 matter. Additionally, we have copies of these exhibits that 140 1 we can provide to the jurors. 2 JUDGE POTTER: If you'll hand them to my 3 sheriff, she'll pass them out. 4 MR. SMITH: And I see that we still don't have 5 this marked. 6 MR. STOPHER: My apologies. 7 MR. SMITH: With that, I'll pass the Witness, 8 Your Honor. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Mr. Stopher? 10 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, may I take just a 11 minute to set up the device that shows documents on the 12 television screen? 13 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 14 MR. STOPHER: Give everyone a moment, also, Your 15 Honor, to look at the documents. 16 17 EXAMINATION ___________ 18 19 BY_MR._STOPHER: __ ___ ________ 20 Q. Ms. Warman, let me go back, if I may, to some 21 basics with regard to your testimony. If I understand 22 correctly, in approximately January of 1987, you started to 23 work for Standard Gravure; am I understanding correctly? 24 A. Yes, sir; that is correct. 25 Q. And if I understand, you began in employee 141 1 relations and occupied that position until the time of this 2 incident on September 14, 1989; am I right about that? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Ms. Warman, if I understand correctly, one of 5 your responsibilities at Standard Gravure as head of employee 6 relations was security; am I correct about that? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. In other words, you were the person that was 9 responsible for securing the premises; is that true? 10 A. In my position, the person who reported to me, 11 the safety and security manager reported to me; yes, sir. 12 Q. And you were the boss of the manager of safety 13 and security, who was then Grady Throneberry; am I correct? 14 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. He reported to me. 15 Q. Ms. Warman, if I understand correctly, Standard 16 Gravure never gave you any training in security or how to 17 secure the premises of that facility; is that true? 18 A. I never -- personally never had any training, 19 but Mr. Throneberry had been a police officer. 20 Q. I'll ask you about Mr. Throneberry and we'll 21 talk about Mr. Throneberry when he arrives. At the moment, 22 Ms. Warman, let me ask about you. Had you ever had any 23 training given by Standard Gravure or anybody else with regard 24 to securing a building? 25 A. No, sir. 142 1 Q. Ms. Warman, in your position at Standard Gravure 2 as the employee relations person, let me hand you a copy of an 3 organizational chart. Have you seen that before, Ms. Warman? 4 A. I'm sure I have. 5 Q. It's dated up in the top right-hand corner 6 August 1987, and that was before you even got there; correct? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. I'm sorry. You got there in January of '87? 9 A. January of '87. 10 Q. So this is about eight months after you began 11 with Standard Gravure; correct? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And then if I read this document correctly, at 14 the very top is M. Shea, president and CEO; correct? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And then under him, directly under him is J. 17 Woolfolk, vice-president and COO; is that correct? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. That would be Joe Woolfolk and I assume COO 20 stands for chief operating officer? 21 A. That would be my guess. 22 Q. And then over here to the right I see D. McCall, 23 executive vice-president, who I assume is Don McCall? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. Mr. McCall apparently reported directly to Mr. 143 1 Shea; is that correct? 2 A. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And then under D. McCall I see your name as 4 employee relations; correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And then directly under you was Grady 7 Throneberry, safety and security manager; correct? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, according, then, to this 10 organizational chart, matters of security would first come to 11 Mr. Throneberry, then to you, then to Mr. McCall and then 12 directly to Mr. Shea; correct? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. Ms. Warman, in connection with security, was 15 there ever a security analysis done of Standard Gravure at any 16 time before September 14, 1989? 17 A. Not to my knowledge. 18 Q. No one ever did a survey or a study to determine 19 what sort of security was needed, where it was to be and what 20 level of security was to be there; am I correct? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. Ms. Warman, at the time that you started at 23 Standard Gravure, if I understand correctly, you were aware 24 that security was provided by Business Security Group; is that 25 accurate? 144 1 A. When I started? 2 Q. Yes, ma'am. 3 A. I can't swear for sure that that's when it was, 4 but I remember the name Business Security Group. 5 Q. And you knew and understood that Business 6 Security Group was an organization that was owned and operated 7 by Grady Throneberry, didn't you? 8 A. Yes, sir. That was prior to his employment at 9 Standard. 10 Q. And if I understand correctly, Mr. Throneberry's 11 company provided guards and security for the premises and the 12 people at Standard Gravure; accurate? 13 A. Yes, sir. They provided the security staff. 14 Q. Let me show you a copy of a document that I have 15 marked Defendant's Exhibit 157 and ask you if you've seen that 16 document before. 17 MR. SMITH: We have an objection to lodge to 18 this exhibit, Your Honor. 19 JUDGE POTTER: I beg your pardon, Mr. Smith? 20 MR. SMITH: We have an objection to lodge to 21 this exhibit; it's hearsay. 22 JUDGE POTTER: Approach the bench. 23 (BENCH CONFERENCE) 24 JUDGE POTTER: We're going to try the new system 25 so you have to talk one at a time and talk into these 145 1 microphones, and it saves her the trouble of coming over here. 2 Mr. Smith? 3 MR. SMITH: She's on headphones? We object to 4 the reference to the document that is marked Exhibit 157, on 5 hearsay. 6 MR. STOPHER: This is a contract, Your Honor, 7 between Standard Gravure and the Business Security Group to 8 provide security. She's agreed that it was in force and 9 effect when she came in as head of security. 10 JUDGE POTTER: What is the relevance of it, Mr. 11 Stopher? 12 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, it's a conflict of 13 interest, which you will see in just a minute. 14 JUDGE POTTER: If she can identify this and say 15 that it's the contract that was in force, I'll let her 16 identify it and move it into evidence. Objection is 17 overruled. 18 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 19 Q. Ms. Warman, you recognize that as the contract 20 that was in effect beginning in November of 1986 between 21 Standard Gravure and Business Security Group? 22 A. I'm not sure I was a part of this contract at 23 that time. 24 Q. I understand you weren't even there yet, but 25 when you got there it became your responsibility; is that 146 1 true? 2 A. I didn't keep the contracts, that I recall. 3 What exactly are you asking me? 4 Q. I'm asking you, ma'am, when you started as 5 manager of security, among other duties in January of 1987, 6 wasn't security supplied by Business Security Group? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. And when you came on board, did you become aware 9 that Business Security Group was owned and operated by Grady 10 Throneberry? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. And at some point in time did that become a 13 matter of concern as far as a conflict of interest? 14 A. Not with me. 15 Q. You weren't involved in any replacement of Mr. 16 Throneberry's contract with another contract? 17 A. After Mr. Throneberry -- at the time Mr. 18 Throneberry wanted to be an employee or we requested that he 19 be an employee of Standard Gravure, then it became a conflict 20 of interest; yes, sir. 21 Q. And the request was that Mr. Throneberry hire 22 someone to provide security that was not an employee of 23 Standard Gravure; correct? 24 A. I'm sorry. Would you restate? 25 Q. In other words, after Mr. Throneberry came on 147 1 board as your subordinate, there was to be a new security 2 company that he was not connected with; is that accurate? 3 A. That he wasn't connected with, yes. 4 Q. Have you seen -- excuse me. Let me back up for 5 just a moment. May I have the contracts with -- let me show 6 you another -- let me have the other one. Let me me show you 7 an agreement dated September 29, 1987. You've seen that 8 document before, have you not? 9 A. Yes, sir. I signed it. 10 Q. And this document provides in part up at the 11 very top, Agreement, and it is a contract between Hall 12 Security Company and Standard Gravure; correct? 13 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. 14 Q. And you signed this document at the very bottom 15 on behalf of Standard Gravure; correct? 16 A. Yes, sir. That is correct. 17 Q. In Paragraph No. 2 of the contract, it says, 18 "The guards furnished by Hall shall protect the property of 19 Standard against any act of robbery, burglary, destruction, 20 arson, vandalism or trespass, and perform other duties as 21 assigned by Standard and Hall." Did I read that correctly? 22 A. Yes, sir; you did. 23 Q. Was that the agreement as to what Hall Security 24 was to provide on September 14, 1989? 25 MR. FREEMAN: '87, Ed. 148 1 Q. '89, the day of the shootings. 2 A. I don't know if this contract changed between 3 '87 and '89 or not. 4 Q. So I take it that the answer is that that's what 5 they were supposed to do on September 14, 1989? 6 MR. SMITH: We object to that. The Witness said 7 she didn't know. It's mischaracterizing her testimony. 8 Q. Ms. Warman, on September 14, 1989, were you no 9 longer in charge of security? 10 A. No, sir. What I said was, if this contract was 11 still the contract that was in effect in September of 1989, 12 then that is what it says; yes, sir. 13 Q. Are you aware of any change to this agreement, 14 ma'am? 15 A. I don't recall any change, but I also don't know 16 that I would remember one at this time. 17 Q. Mrs. Warman, at the time that this document was 18 signed on September 29, 1987, were you aware that Mr. 19 Throneberry had signed another agreement with Hall Security 20 Company? 21 A. I'm sorry. What kind of an agreement? I was 22 not -- at this point I can't remember another agreement with 23 Hall. 24 Q. Were you ever told, Mrs. Warman, that the 25 contract between Standard Gravure and Hall Security Company 149 1 had another contract signed on September 11, 1987, between Mr. 2 Throneberry and Hall Security, and that he was paid $25,000 3 during the course of Hall Security's work there? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. Is that a conflict of interest between Mr. 6 Throneberry and the security guard service? 7 A. I would have no -- 8 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, we would object to that. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 10 Q. Ms. Warman, let me show you the agreement 11 between Mr. Throneberry and Hall Security Company. 12 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, we'd object to any 13 reference to this agreement. It's hearsay and it's not 14 material or relevant due to the issue that the jury's going to 15 decide. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Approach the bench. 17 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 18 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, she says she doesn't 19 know anything about it. 20 MR. STOPHER: I understand that, Your Honor. 21 But there will be testimony coming later on that she did know 22 about it and that she waived the conflict of interest, and I'd 23 like to get this clearly on the record so when and if it's 24 discredited that it will be there. 25 MR. SMITH: She's already testified she didn't 150 1 know anything about it. That's what her sworn testimony is 2 already. 3 JUDGE POTTER: But you're representing to the 4 Court -- and I guess Mr. Smith knows Mr. Throneberry or 5 somebody's going to come in and there's going to be no dispute 6 that this is the agreement. I don't think you can get it into 7 evidence, but I think you can get her committed to the fact 8 that she never saw it and didn't know about it. 9 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 10 Q. Mrs. Warman, have you had a chance to take a 11 look at the purchase agreement by assignment signed by Mr. 12 Throneberry and by Carolyn Tamas for Hall Security Services? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. Have you ever seen that document before? 15 A. No, sir. Not that I recall. 16 Q. Was it ever brought to your attention prior to 17 September 14, 1989, that Mr. Throneberry was receiving 18 payments from Hall Security Services? 19 A. Not that I recall. I don't remember that being 20 a topic of conversation. Hall Security was contracted with 21 Standard to provide security for Standard and that would have 22 been my only concern. 23 Q. Mrs. Warman, if I understand correctly, it's 24 your testimony that you thought that Hall Security Company was 25 completely independent financially from Grady Throneberry? 151 1 A. Yes, sir. That's right. That's what I thought. 2 Q. And you would never have approved a contract 3 with Hall Security on behalf of Standard Gravure if you had 4 thought that there was some sort of kickback or payment to Mr. 5 Throneberry? 6 A. I would not have made a decision on that. I 7 would have consulted with my supervisor and he probably would 8 have made the final decision on that. 9 Q. And, again, your supervisor would have been Mr. 10 McCall? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, with regard to security at 13 Standard Gravure between January of 1987 and September 14, 14 1989, was there ever a video camera at the Sixth Street 15 entrance to Standard Gravure? 16 A. Yes, sir. I believe there was. 17 Q. And can you tell us where that video camera was 18 located? 19 A. No, sir; I can't. 20 Q. Can you tell us what the video camera showed? 21 A. I don't know if I ever viewed that video camera 22 in operation. 23 Q. Do you know what happened to the video camera? 24 A. I know that the camera was vandalized at some 25 time after that period, but I don't know exactly what happened 152 1 to that particular camera. 2 Q. In other words, the camera was vandalized before 3 September 14, 1989? 4 A. To the best of my knowledge it was, yes. 5 Q. Do you know if it was vandalized more than one 6 time? 7 A. I really don't remember. 8 Q. As of September 14, 1989, if I understand 9 correctly, there was no means of surveillance of the Sixth 10 Street entrance; is that true? 11 A. As far as I know, that is correct. 12 Q. On September 14, 1989, there was no guard at 13 that entrance? 14 A. There had never been a guard at that entrance, 15 to my knowledge. 16 Q. And on September 14, 1989, there was no guard 17 there? 18 A. And there had never been; that's correct. 19 Q. On September 14, 1989, am I correct that anyone 20 could walk in off of the street, enter those doors, get on the 21 elevator, ride to the third floor and walk into the reception 22 area? 23 MR. SMITH: We object to the nefarious nature of 24 the question, Your Honor. 25 JUDGE POTTER: Objection is overruled. 153 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. Mrs. Warman, during the approximately two and 3 three quarters or two-thirds years that you were in charge of 4 security, didn't the guards report that they wanted a video 5 camera at that Sixth Street entrance? 6 A. I had no knowledge of that. They didn't report 7 it to me. 8 Q. Do you know Mr. Jim Abrams, a guard for Hall 9 Security Company? 10 A. I recognize the name. I don't know if I know 11 him personally. 12 Q. Did you know that the guards filled out incident 13 reports in writing? 14 A. I'm not sure exactly what the guards filled out. 15 I did not get copies of that correspondence, if there were 16 such things. 17 Q. You never saw incident reports from any of the 18 guards? 19 A. I can't recall that I -- I can't tell you I 20 never saw an incident report, but I never received periodic 21 reports from the guards. 22 Q. Did Mr. Throneberry ever mention to you that the 23 guards had complained that there was no video camera system at 24 the Sixth Street entrance? 25 A. No, sir; he did not. 154 1 Q. Did Mr. Throneberry ever suggest to you that the 2 guards had complained that there was no one at the Sixth 3 Street entrance such as a guard and that one was requested? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. That was never brought to your attention? 6 A. Not that I recall. 7 Q. Are those the kinds of things, Ms. Warman, that 8 under the chain of command or organizational chart should have 9 been brought to your attention? 10 A. Not necessarily. 11 Q. Are those the kinds of things that Mr. 12 Throneberry could have dealt with on his own? 13 A. Those are things he could have dealt with on his 14 own or he could have talked to Don McCall about those. We did 15 not force the chain of command. If he had situations that he 16 felt Mr. McCall would be deciding ultimately, he could have 17 bypassed me and gone straight to him. 18 Q. Ms. Warman, prior to September 14, 1989, had 19 anyone complained to you that someone had actually walked into 20 the reception area who was not authorized to be there? 21 A. Into the third floor reception area? 22 Q. Yes, ma'am. 23 A. Not that I recall. 24 Q. And that they were disruptive and that there was 25 no one there to deal with them? 155 1 A. Not that I remember. 2 Q. Do you know Mr. Bottorff? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Who is he? 5 A. He was the superintendent of the conveyer area. 6 Q. Did Mr. Bottorff report an incident in which 7 Sharon Needy was the receptionist and someone walked in off 8 the street about six months before this incident and Mr. 9 Bottorff had to be called out of a meeting to escort that 10 intruder off of the premises? 11 A. If it happened, I don't remember it. 12 Q. Wasn't it ever considered whether or not to have 13 a video camera or to have a guard or a lock or something at 14 the Sixth Street entrance? 15 A. I do not recall any conversation about the fact 16 that we needed a guard. There had never been a guard there. 17 Basically, the only change that happened between the Binghams' 18 ownership and Mr. Shea's ownership was that the video camera 19 was not made operational. But as far as I knew, there was 20 never a concern that that presented any problem whatsoever. 21 Q. Once the video camera became inoperable, why 22 wasn't it replaced or repaired? 23 A. I'm not sure. I don't know. 24 Q. You were in charge of Mr. Throneberry who was in 25 charge of security? 156 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Mrs. Warman, if I understand correctly, on one 3 occasion there was a discussion between yourself and Mr. Cox 4 and perhaps Mr. Throneberry about Joseph Wesbecker? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. You don't know when it was; correct? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Ms. Warman, did you hear mention in that 9 conversation that Mr. Cox had been threatened by Mr. Wesbecker 10 with a gun? 11 A. If I did, I don't recall that. 12 Q. You don't recall it at all? 13 A. I don't remember that being the case. 14 Q. Do you recall how Mr. Cox thought he had been 15 threatened or that it was a matter of some concern? 16 A. It was a matter of some concern, but I cannot 17 remember what the topic of the conversation was, how he had 18 been threatened, whether he had actually just heard rumors or 19 what. I honestly do not remember that. 20 Q. If I understand correctly, whatever the issue 21 was, you offered security at Mr. Cox's home; am I right? 22 A. Yes. Mr. Throneberry and I did. 23 Q. Do you know what sort of security was offered to 24 Mr. Cox's house? 25 A. No. Mr. Throneberry would have followed up with 157 1 that, police, but I'm not sure exactly how that would have 2 been done. 3 Q. Did you say police? 4 A. Yes. He would have offered some type of police 5 protection, like, I would assume off-duty policemen, something 6 like that. 7 Q. At Mr. Cox's house? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. He lived in the same subdivision or nearby to 10 Mr. Wesbecker? 11 A. I don't know exactly where he lived but, as I 12 understood it, it was in close proximity to Mr. Wesbecker. 13 Q. And if I understand correctly at that time, 14 there was no discussion about security at the Sixth Street 15 entrance to Standard Gravure? 16 A. At that time there was no discussion about any 17 threat to Standard Gravure or its employees, other than 18 whatever Mr. Cox was discussing, which was at his home, not at 19 Standard. 20 Q. You thought that Mr. Cox had been threatened at 21 his house? 22 A. No. That's not what I meant to say. 23 Q. What did you mean to say? 24 A. What I meant to say was that the concern Mr. Cox 25 had was not for protection at Standard Gravure; the concern he 158 1 had was for his -- at his home. 2 Q. For himself and his family at home? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Now, Mrs. Warman, with regard to security at 5 Standard Gravure, had there ever been a threat analysis? 6 A. A threat analysis? 7 Q. Yes, ma'am. 8 A. I'm not sure I even know what that is. 9 Q. Have you ever heard of a security term 10 describing an analysis of the history of threats? 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. Doesn't ring a bell with you at all? 13 A. No, sir. 14 Q. I take it that there was no investigation of 15 threats after you had this conversation with Mr. Cox and Mr. 16 Throneberry about his concern at home? 17 A. I personally did not do anything. 18 Q. Ms. Warman, prior to September 14, 1989, was 19 there any emergency warning system in place at Standard 20 Gravure to warn the individuals who worked there of an 21 emergency so that they could evacuate? 22 A. I believe there was an emergency evacuation 23 system from the guard shack, I think. 24 Q. Do you know, Mrs. Warman, if it was operational 25 on September 14, 1989? 159 1 A. It wasn't used that day, so I don't know if it 2 was operational or not. 3 Q. No one made an announcement to evacuate that 4 day; am I correct? 5 A. I did not hear an announcement. 6 Q. Did you attempt to make such an announcement? 7 A. No, sir; I did not. 8 Q. And I take it that from your position, you never 9 heard any such announcement being made? 10 A. No, sir. I never heard an announcement. 11 Q. Let me show you a document, Ms. Warman, that 12 I've marked Defendant's Exhibit No. 158. Do you see a 13 document in front of you entitled Proposal of Major 14 Expenditure? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. Do you see where it has a box for Standard 17 Gravure and a check mark or an X has been put in? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Do you see in the description where it says, 20 "Building-wide paging system, interconnect with proprietary 21 phone system?" Do you see that? 22 A. Oh, yes. 23 Q. And then under the caption "Discussion: For 24 safety purposes: Evacuation of building (Fire/Explosion), 25 severe weather, et cetera. (See Option No. 3 on attached 160 1 proposal)." 2 Did I read that correctly? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. And then at the very bottom of the document, it 5 shows "initiation, requested by G. Throneberry." Did I read 6 that correctly? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And then over to the far right-hand side, it 9 looks like to me it says, "Proposal disposition, CEC 10 No. 90-905. Date approved, 6-28-89," and signed Mike Shea. 11 Did I read that correctly? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. Ms. Warman, was this proposal to put in a paging 14 system or an evacuation emergency announcement system ever 15 discussed with you? 16 A. It may have been. 17 Q. You have no recollection of it? 18 A. I would say that there's a good possibility that 19 Grady talked with me about this, but I have really no 20 recollection of the discussion. 21 Q. Do you know, Mrs. Warman, whether or not this 22 system was installed and operational on September 14, 1989, so 23 that employees could be warned? 24 A. No, sir; I do not know if this particular system 25 was installed. 161 1 Q. Ms. Warman, with regards to threats at Standard 2 Gravure, if an employee had information that a threat had been 3 made by another employee against someone who worked at 4 Standard Gravure or against the building itself, should that 5 have been reported? 6 A. Any threats should have been reported, yes. 7 Q. And was there a procedure for threats to be 8 reported? 9 A. Did we have a written procedure? 10 Q. Yes, ma'am. 11 A. No, sir. 12 Q. There was nothing in writing? 13 A. No. We didn't have a written procedure to say 14 report threats to... 15 Q. Without such a written procedure, how were 16 employees told that they should report threats to someone? 17 A. Well, I guess I just assumed that people knew to 18 report threats to their supervisors. Their supervisors were 19 the people they reported all their problems to. 20 Q. If I understand correctly, then there were no 21 instructions either in writing or verbally that employees 22 should report threats? 23 A. I can't say what was said verbally by the 24 supervisors to the employees, but I know there were no written 25 instructions on the reporting of threats, to my knowledge. 162 1 Q. And you gave no verbal instructions to report 2 threats. 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, if threats were made known to 5 you, would you report that up the line to Mr. McCall? 6 A. Yes, sir; I would. 7 Q. If someone threatened Mr. McCall's life or the 8 lives of many people at Standard Gravure, is that something 9 that you would have brought to the attention of Mr. McCall? 10 A. Absolutely. 11 Q. And if Mr. McCall was aware of threats against 12 individuals at Standard Gravure, should he have reported it to 13 Mr. Shea? 14 A. Should he or would he? 15 Q. Yes, ma'am. 16 A. I think he would have. 17 Q. And should he have? 18 A. I guess he should have. 19 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, if I understand you correctly, 20 during the entire time that you worked at Standard Gravure 21 from January of '87 until September 14, 1989, other than this 22 incident involving Mr. Cox that you've told us about, you 23 never heard about another threat issued by anybody at Standard 24 Gravure; is that true? 25 A. To the best of my memory, I do not recall any 163 1 threats. 2 Q. Absolutely none? 3 A. To the best of my memory. 4 Q. Did Mr. Throneberry ever tell you that he had a 5 file entitled "Threats"? 6 A. I don't remember that discussion; no, sir. 7 Q. Did he ever show you that file on threats? 8 A. Not that I recall. 9 Q. Should he have done that? 10 A. Maybe not. Maybe he talked to Mr. McCall about 11 that. Maybe he felt like he handled that situation. Not 12 knowing what's in the file, I can't determine that. 13 Q. Do you know where the file is? 14 A. I didn't know there was such a file. 15 Q. Ms. Warman, with regard to guns at Standard 16 Gravure, were they prohibited? 17 A. We had an office rule that said that firearms on 18 the premises were prohibited. 19 Q. Prohibited in the pressroom? 20 A. Prohibited period. 21 Q. Was that ever violated? 22 A. I don't know that it was violated and I don't 23 know that it wasn't. I was not aware of people bringing guns 24 to work. 25 Q. Was it ever reported to you by Mr. Throneberry 164 1 that certain individuals did carry guns to work? 2 A. Not that I recall. 3 Q. Never reported to you? 4 A. Not that I recall. 5 Q. If an individual violated the rule against guns, 6 what was the punishment for that at Standard Gravure? 7 A. Well, not having the office rules in front of 8 me, I can't give you the exact terminology, but I think any 9 infraction of the office rules resulted in disciplinary action 10 up to and including discharge. 11 Q. All right. Let me just back up then and fill in 12 that blank. Could I have a personnel policy manual marked, 13 please? Let me hand you a copy, Ms. Warman, of Defendant's 14 Exhibit 160, which is entitled Personnel Policy Manual. Do 15 you recognize that? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. Was that in effect up to September 14, 1989? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Let me direct your attention to Section 406.1. 20 Do you see that section, Ms. Warman? 21 A. Yes, sir; I do. 22 Q. It says, "It is the policy of the Bingham 23 companies to create a safe and secure work environment for all 24 its employees. Firearms and other deadly weapons of any type, 25 such as switchblade knives, shall not be brought onto company 165 1 property at any time. This includes carrying firearms and 2 other deadly weapons concealed or exposed on the person." Did 3 I read that correctly? 4 A. Yes, sir; you did. 5 Q. And then down on Rule No. 3, "Violation of this 6 rule will constitute justifiable cause for disciplinary action 7 up to and including discharge and will be considered serious 8 misconduct pursuant to Section 705.1." Did I read that 9 correctly? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. And was that the rule in effect prior to 12 September 14, 1989? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. Let me hand you next, Ms. Warman, a document 15 numbered Defendant's Exhibit No. 159. And I apologize for a 16 rather somewhat poor copy. This is a -- purports to be, Ms. 17 Warman, a copy of a postcard and the postmark is -- on that 18 postcard is a little difficult to read, but it says 19 November -- and I can't quite read the date -- 1988. Can you 20 see that? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. And the postcard is addressed to G. Throneberry, 23 643 South Sixth Street, Louisville, Kentucky 40202; correct? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. 643 South Sixth Street is the address of 166 1 Standard Gravure; correct? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. On the next page is the back of the postcard. 4 And it states, "Charles Ganote brings guns to work." And it's 5 apparently anonymous; correct? 6 A. Apparently. 7 Q. Was that ever brought to your attention, Ms. 8 Warman? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Take a look at the next page, and I will 11 represent to you that this is a document dated November 2, 12 1988, to Charles Ganote File from Grady Throneberry. Do you 13 see that? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. It says, "I met with Charles Ganote and his 16 union representative, Tom Gosling, today in my office 17 regarding a postcard I received which was anonymous and said 18 that Ganote brings guns to work. Ganote said, 'I don't deny 19 it. I have, but I don't anymore'. He said he thought the 20 card was someone's effort to get even with him. I cautioned 21 him not to bring guns into the building." Did I read that 22 correctly? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. Did Mr. Throneberry report this to you? 25 A. No, sir. Not that I recall. 167 1 Q. This comes as a surprise to you today? 2 A. I don't recall ever seeing this information or 3 talking about this. 4 Q. You were Mr. Throneberry's boss and in charge of 5 security and my handing this to you today is the first time 6 you ever heard of it? 7 A. I have never seen the postcard and I do not 8 remember the discussion. 9 Q. Do you know, Ms. Warman, if anything was ever 10 done to Mr. Ganote for bringing guns into work? 11 A. I didn't know Mr. Ganote brought guns to work, 12 so I was unaware of any punishment for that. 13 Q. Mrs. Warman, as Mr. Throneberry's boss, did you 14 attempt to do anything to take any sort of enforcement action 15 to make sure that guns were not in the Standard Gravure plant? 16 A. Any kind of enforcement action? 17 Q. Yes, ma'am. Any sort of publication of the 18 policy, meetings with employees, instructions to foremen to 19 report, anything like that? 20 A. I didn't realize it was a problem, and I 21 probably did not put out anything special for bringing guns to 22 work. No, I would not have done that. 23 Q. Prior to September 14, 1989, Mrs. Warman, did 24 you ever hear that anyone was scolded or reprimanded or 25 disciplined in any way for bringing a gun to work? 168 1 A. No, sir. I was not aware that people were 2 bringing guns to work. 3 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, let me switch to another topic, 4 if I might. With regard to the complaint of discrimination of 5 Joseph Wesbecker, which has now been handed to the jury in a 6 package of documents, and I believe it's Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7 No. 1, do you have that package in front of you, Ms. Warman? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. If I understand correctly, the top right-hand 10 corner of this document shows that it was filed on May 21, 11 1987. 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And if I understand correctly your testimony 14 this morning and then perhaps even referred to early this 15 afternoon, it was Mr. Wesbecker's contention that he was 16 mentally ill and mentally handicapped and that he wanted to be 17 permanently exempt from working on the folder; am I correct? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. And this complaint was initiated in May of 1987, 20 and at any time up until September 14, 1989, was Mr. Wesbecker 21 ever permanently exempted from working on the folder? 22 A. Not in writing. 23 Q. Was he exempted verbally that he would never, 24 ever have to work the folder at any time again? 25 A. No. 169 1 Q. In other words, if I understand correctly, Mr. 2 Wesbecker never achieved the remedy that he sought, which was 3 total and permanent exemption from working the folder; am I 4 correct? 5 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, it's not for this 6 Witness to speculate whether or not she recalls if he got his 7 remedy. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 9 Q. To your understanding, Mrs. Warman, how many 10 different complaints and actions did Joseph Wesbecker take 11 against Standard Gravure to try to get exempted? 12 A. To the best of my knowledge, the EEOC complaint 13 was the only formal complaint. Is that what you mean? 14 Q. Yes, ma'am. You didn't hear about any other 15 complaint? 16 A. Prior to the EEO? 17 Q. At any time prior to September 14, 1989. 18 A. Well, I think the evidence shows that once I 19 started investigating I found that Mr. Wesbecker had asked to 20 be removed from the folder prior to that time. 21 Q. All right. Let's begin there. He had been 22 asking for how long prior to filing this complaint? 23 A. It says in my notes that as recently as three to 24 four years ago he requested not to be made to work the folder 25 any more than necessary, and that was prior to the filing of 170 1 this complaint. These were notes from Don Cox. 2 Q. In other words, as early as 1983, 1984, he had 3 been requesting to get off the folder? 4 A. The notes say that he had requested not to be 5 made to work the folder any more than necessary. 6 Q. Did you ever become aware of the complaint that 7 he filed against or with the U. S. Department of Labor? 8 A. I may have. I don't recall that, but he may 9 have done that. 10 Q. Do you know if that complaint resulted in his 11 being exempted from the folder? 12 A. I don't recall the complaint. 13 Q. So the answer is no, you don't know one way or 14 the other? 15 A. The answer is, I don't know one way or the 16 other. 17 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, I'm not going to go over the 18 things that have been over -- that you've gone over this 19 morning, but let me direct your attention to just the few 20 items in the group of documents there. If you would, Ms. 21 Warman, take a look at a document that is dated July 23, 1987. 22 I believe it's been identified as Exhibit 5. Do you see that? 23 A. Yes, sir; I do. 24 Q. And do you see the paragraph in there in which 25 the author of this letter, which is Mr. Mattingly, in 171 1 Paragraph No. 1, asks for a work force breakdown of all union 2 employees of Standard Gravure as of June 1, 1987, showing -- 3 and then Subpart D, whether handicapped and, if so, to what 4 extent. Did I read that correctly? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Then in Paragraph 3, it says, "A copy of the 7 company's personnel policy manual governing assignment of 8 light duty for employees with physical or mental handicap." 9 Did I read that correctly? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Now, take a look at the next document, if you 12 would, Ms. Warman, which is a letter dated August 7, 1987, and 13 has been identified as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 6. Do you see 14 that? 15 A. Yes, sir; I do. 16 Q. And apparently this is a document signed by you; 17 correct? 18 A. That is correct. 19 Q. It says in the second paragraph of that letter, 20 "It is the company's contention that manic depression is a, 21 quote, condition, close quotes, rather than a handicap. 22 Therefore, your request for a work force breakdown indicating 23 those who are handicapped is irrelevant." Did I read that 24 correctly? 25 A. Yes, sir; you did. 172 1 Q. Mrs. Warman, if I understand correctly, you 2 didn't know what manic depression was? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Who at Standard Gravure on August 7, 1987, made 5 the determination that mental illness in the form of manic 6 depression was not a handicap but was something else? 7 A. This letter was drafted with the advice of 8 counsel. 9 Q. So it was a lawyer? 10 A. The lawyer's advice. 11 Q. This was a lawyer's advice that manic depression 12 was not a handicap? 13 A. The draft of the letter has the lawyer's 14 verbiage in it, also. Yes. 15 Q. Take a look down in the next paragraph -- no, 16 that's not quite right. The one, two, three, four, fifth 17 paragraph, last sentence, it begins with the language, "As we 18 previously discussed," and the last sentence in that paragraph 19 says, "The foreman then has the responsibility to assign those 20 employees to the various duties in the pressroom. All 21 journeymen pressmen are required to perform any job in the 22 pressroom when assigned by the foreman." Did I read that 23 correctly? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. And was that the policy of Standard Gravure, at 173 1 least up to August 7, 1987? 2 A. Was that the foreman had the responsibility to 3 assign as he saw fit, yes. 4 Q. Take a look, Ms. Warman, to the next document, 5 which I believe is dated August 24, 1987, and has been marked 6 as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7. Do you see that? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. All right. Take a look at the first paragraph 9 where it says, "Dear Ms. Warman, pursuant to your letter of 10 August 7, 1987, I think I should point out that Mr. 11 Wesbecker's, quote, condition, as you call it, is not the 12 issue here. The local ordinance forbidding discrimination in 13 the workplace clearly applies to handicaps, both physical and 14 mental," and mental is underlined; correct? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. And then down in Paragraph 1, No. 1, they 17 request one more time a work force breakdown of all union 18 employees of Standard Gravure showing whether handicapped; 19 correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Then if you would, Ms. Warman, take a look at a 22 document dated October 16, 1987. It should be Plaintiffs' 23 Exhibit No. 9. This is your letter replying to Mr. Mattingly; 24 correct? 25 A. Yes, sir. 174 1 Q. And it says, if you will look at the second 2 paragraph, it's kind of a short little paragraph, "As I 3 discussed with you, we do not keep any records on whether or 4 not an employee is handicapped." And the last paragraph, it 5 says, "We have never exempted employees from working a 6 particular function on a permanent basis. We will continue to 7 accommodate Doctor David Moore's request to, if possible, 8 that's in quotes, allow Mr. Wesbecker to work at places other 9 than the folder, but we cannot totally exempt him from this 10 duty permanently. Sincerely, Paula Warman;" correct? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Was that written by the lawyer, also? 13 A. I didn't say he actually wrote the other letter; 14 I said I did it with counsel's advice. 15 Q. Was this letter written with the advice of 16 counsel? 17 A. I don't remember if counsel actually saw this 18 particular letter or whether I just had this approved through 19 my supervisor, Don McCall. 20 Q. Let me next direct you to a letter dated 21 December 8, 1987, that's marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 10. 22 And I don't believe this letter was read in its entirety, and 23 I apologize, but I would like to read this in its entirety. 24 "Dear Ms. Warman, in your letter dated October 16, 1987, you 25 deny that the company has a policy governing the assignment of 175 1 light duty but admit to five cases of temporary light duty due 2 to work-related injury. Our investigation has already 3 produced three employees who, for physical reasons, are never 4 asked to work the folder. We also have a union representative 5 who is willing to testify that the company has made 6 accommodations for employees with physical handicaps. 7 Moreover, our investigation found that at least one employee, 8 after a job-related injury, was given assurances in writing 9 that he would not have to work the folder until he decided to. 10 The Commission considers disparity of treatment toward someone 11 with an emotional handicap to be discriminatory and illegal. 12 My supervisor has therefore directed me to recommend a finding 13 of probable cause to the January antidiscrimination panel. We 14 have also received assurances from the union that it has no 15 objection to the company making a written exception for the 16 complainant" -- that's Mr. Wesbecker. "If you wish to attempt 17 some sort of negotiated settlement in this case, please 18 contact me before December 31. Sincerely, Don Mattingly, 19 compliance officer." Did I read it correctly? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Ms. Warman, isn't it a fact that as of December 22 1987, the union had no objection to Joe Wesbecker being 23 permanently exempted from the folder? 24 A. I had no conversation with the union about that. 25 The first time I saw that was in this letter. 176 1 Q. Did you ever follow up with the union to 2 determine whether or not they objected to Mr. Wesbecker being 3 exempted? 4 A. At this point -- I don't think I handled this 5 complaint from this point on. I never followed up with the 6 union. 7 Q. You never followed up, did you? 8 A. No, sir. 9 Q. Take a look at the next document, Ms. Warman, 10 which is a handwritten document. I show it as Plaintiffs' 11 Exhibit No. 11. Do you recognize this handwriting? 12 A. Yes, sir. I referred to this earlier, although 13 I didn't read the names out loud. 14 Q. Is this your handwriting? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. "Richard Becht, makes him nervous; Donald 17 Wilhelm, can't work folder because of high blood pressure; 18 Frank Gnadinger, susceptible to seizures, working folder makes 19 him nervous. Doctors have advised him not to do anything that 20 makes him nervous." Did I read that correctly? 21 A. Yes, you did. 22 Q. I take it that there were at least two other 23 pressmen at this time who also suffered with nervous 24 conditions related to working the folder; is that accurate? 25 A. Yes. To the best of my recollection, I found 177 1 this information out after this letter came when they said 2 that they had produced three employees who, for physical 3 reasons, are never asked to work the folder. And to the best 4 of my recollection, that's what would have prompted my again 5 going back to Don Cox and saying, you know, this is what 6 they're saying, do we have any such things. However, as far 7 as I know, there were no written agreements or verbal 8 agreements that they would never, ever have to work the 9 folder. 10 Q. In other words, even though these individuals 11 were also made nervous by the folder, the possibility still 12 existed that they might be asked to work the folder? 13 A. As far as I know, that possibility still 14 existed. 15 Q. Mrs. Warman, was it ever explained to you by Mr. 16 Mattingly that it wasn't necessarily working the folder that 17 upset Mr. Wesbecker; it was the threat or the possibility that 18 he might have to work the folder that upset him so much? Was 19 that ever explained to you? 20 A. That was explained to me by someone. I'm not 21 sure if it was Mr. Mattingly but, yes, I understood that. 22 Q. And the fact that he was not exempt and the 23 possibility that he would have to work it was one of the 24 things that exacerbated his mental illness; is that true? 25 A. Is that true that that's what -- 178 1 Q. The claim was. 2 A. -- the claim was? 3 Q. Yes, ma'am. 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. And in spite of that, Standard Gravure refused 6 to give a permanent exemption? 7 A. It was our understanding that we do not give a 8 permanent exemption under the contract. 9 Q. The union had no objection, as far as you know? 10 A. I had no contact with the union. The union had 11 never come to us and said -- to me and said, "We don't mind if 12 you do this." 13 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, let me direct your attention 14 to another document that is dated January 29, 1988. And it is 15 marked, I believe, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 14. 16 JUDGE POTTER: How much more have you got, Mr. 17 Stopher? 18 MR. STOPHER: Probably another 30 to 40 minutes, 19 Your Honor. 20 JUDGE POTTER: Ladies and gentlemen, I was going 21 to try to finish this afternoon without a break and maybe go a 22 little early, but it doesn't look like it's going to work out. 23 Do not discuss this case with anyone; do not permit anyone to 24 speak with you or talk to you; if anyone attempts to do so, it 25 should be reported to me; do not discuss the case among 179 1 yourselves or form or express opinions about it. We'll take a 2 15-minute recess. 3 (RECESS) 4 SHERIFF CECIL: Jurors are now entering. 5 All jurors are present. 6 JUDGE POTTER: Please be seated. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Ms. Warman, I remind you you're 8 still under oath. 9 Mr. Stopher? 10 MR. STOPHER: Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. 11 Warman, we were discussing the document that's been marked and 12 filed as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 14. It's the letter dated 13 January 29, 1988. It is addressed rather curiously. It's 14 addressed to Standard Gravure Corporation, care of Paula 15 Warman, and then it begins, "Dear Mr. Wesbecker." Did you get 16 a copy of this document, Ms. Warman? 17 A. Yes. I believe I did. 18 Q. Take a look in the first paragraph at the very 19 first sentence. It says that "The antidiscrimination panel of 20 the Louisville and Jefferson County Human Relations Commission 21 has determined that Standard Gravure Corporation, hereinafter 22 respondent, has engaged in unlawful employment practices in 23 violation of the City of Louisville Ordinance No. 116," and 24 then it goes on to give the details, "And the Jefferson County 25 Resolution to Implement the State Statute Relative to Equal 180 1 Employment Opportunities as Amended by Resolution No. 15, 2 series 1978. The panel determined that respondent 3 discriminated against the complainant -- that's Joseph 4 Wesbecker -- because of his handicap." If you would take a 5 look at Page 2. Paragraph No. 4, "The complainant alleges 6 that he is a victim of discrimination due to his emotional 7 handicap. Even though a company doctor directed that the 8 complainant not be given stressful jobs (running the folder in 9 Area Two) unless absolutely necessary, the company refuses to 10 state that he will never be assigned to stressful jobs and 11 company representatives threatened him with the possibility of 12 this stressful job." Did I read that correctly? 13 A. Yes, sir; you did. 14 Q. Take a look at Paragraph No. 7. "Investigation 15 found that the respondent -- that's Standard Gravure -- has 16 made accommodations for other employees. At least three 17 journeymen with physical handicaps are not asked to work the 18 folder." Did I read that correctly? 19 A. Yes, sir; you did. 20 Q. Take a look at the paragraph entitled 21 Conclusion. "The antidiscrimination panel's conclusion of 22 probable cause is derived from a balanced consideration of the 23 above-stated findings and an evaluation of the respondent's 24 explanation of its actions." Did I read that correctly? 25 A. Yes, sir. 181 1 Q. And then the last paragraph on that page: "The 2 panel concluded after reviewing evidence produced by all the 3 parties involved, that complainant was discriminated against 4 because of his handicap." Did I read that correctly? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. And then this document on the next page is 7 signed by Gwendolyn Young, Executive Director of the Human 8 Relations Commission, Louisville and Jefferson County; 9 correct? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Let me direct your attention to a document that 12 bears no date. I believe it's Exhibit 17. It appears to me 13 to be a series of handwritten notes. Do you see that, Ms. 14 Warman? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. Is this your handwriting? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. It appears to me that it says at the very top 19 line "has attempted suicide several." Did I read that 20 correctly? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. Do you know who that refers to? 23 A. Well, I'm assuming that refers to Mr. Wesbecker. 24 Q. Who told you that he had attempted suicide 25 several times? 182 1 A. The top of this note I think says Dan Mattingly 2 with a number underneath of it, and it is probably my notes of 3 a telephone conversation with Mr. Mattingly. 4 Q. The next line says "foremen have threatened." 5 Did I read that correctly? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. Do you have any recollection as to what threats 8 are referred to here? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. Next line says "foremen told him." Then it's in 11 quotes, there's nothing wrong with you, you're going to have 12 to do it anyway. Is that the threat? 13 A. This is a quote that Mr. Mattingly, as best as I 14 can recall, was telling me these were Mr. Wesbecker's 15 thoughts. These were his thoughts and Mr. Mattingly was just 16 referring them to -- was just giving them to me. 17 Q. If I understand correctly, then, Mr. Mattingly 18 on behalf of the Louisville and Jefferson County Human 19 Relations Commission was telling you that Mr. Wesbecker felt 20 that the foremen had threatened him by saying to him, among 21 other things, there's nothing wrong with you, you're just 22 going to have to do it anyway; is that correct? 23 A. I'm not sure if those two items went together. 24 I don't know if there's more to the foremen have threatened. 25 That sentence is not completed. I'm not sure that that is 183 1 what -- the threat he was referring to at the top. 2 Q. It may have been another threat? 3 A. It may have been something else. I don't know. 4 Q. Take a look at the next line, quote, you're 5 going to have to tough it out. Do you recall what that 6 referred to? 7 A. That's still part of the foremen's quote, 8 foremen told him. This is still, as I understand it, Mr. 9 Wesbecker's -- the information Mr. Wesbecker had given to Mr. 10 Mattingly. 11 Q. Then there's a note at the bottom or near the 12 bottom where it says, "Endangers his life. Check with 13 doctor." Correct? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Did Mr. Mattingly tell you that it was a threat 16 to the life of Mr. Wesbecker and endangered his life if he was 17 required to work the folder or was not exempt from it? 18 A. I can't recall that exact -- what that 19 conversation meant, but the next line said, "safety hazard on 20 this machine." 21 Q. Yes, ma'am. 22 A. I would think that perhaps they were related to 23 each other, that he considered it a safety problem if Mr. 24 Wesbecker worked the folder, but I don't really know that for 25 a fact. 184 1 Q. Mrs. Warman, given the fact that you have been 2 given information that Mr. Wesbecker was mentally ill; that he 3 was a, quote, manic depressive; that he's attempted suicide 4 several times; was requesting to get off of the folder, and 5 then someone told you that continuing to work or this 6 stressful situation of working the machine may endanger his 7 life, did you take that information seriously? 8 A. I'm not sure that that's exactly what was said. 9 Q. Did you take this information written here 10 seriously? 11 A. These were Mr. Wesbecker's complaints from the 12 first thing. We had tried to determine whether or not these 13 things were actually happening or whether this was just in Mr. 14 Wesbecker's mind. 15 Q. And did you determine that it was all just in 16 his mind? 17 A. I have no idea. I was never able to determine 18 otherwise. 19 Q. Did you, for example, Ms. Warman, determine 20 whether or not he had attempted suicide several -- and I 21 assume times? 22 A. I didn't personally get that information from 23 his doctor. I did not request that information. 24 Q. Did anyone, to your knowledge? 25 A. I did not direct anyone to. 185 1 Q. So the answer is no one did, as far as you know? 2 A. I wouldn't know what anyone else did, I just 3 know that I didn't and I didn't ask anyone to do that. 4 Q. All right. In other words, if I understand you 5 correctly, Mr. Mattingly told you the things that are written 6 down here. You have no recollection of determining whether or 7 not they were true or untrue; is that accurate? 8 A. I think the company was concerned about how to 9 accommodate Mr. Wesbecker's request and stay within the union 10 contract. 11 Q. Did you determine whether or not these things 12 were true or untrue? 13 A. I was never able to determine if a foremen had 14 told him that there was nothing wrong with him, that he would 15 have to do it anyway, and that he was going to tough it out. 16 I don't know whether Mr. Mattingly -- this was Mr. Mattingly's 17 determination that he thought it would endanger his life or 18 that it was a safety hazard on the job or what. There was 19 no -- 20 Q. What did you determine with regard to -- 21 MR. SMITH: Your Honor, we'd object to that. 22 The Witness hadn't finished her sentence before Counsel cut 23 her off. 24 Q. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Ms. Warman. 25 A. I'm sorry? 186 1 Q. Did you determine whether or not these things 2 were true or not? 3 A. Did I determine? 4 Q. Yes, ma'am. 5 A. I determined based on my investigation with Mr. 6 Cox and the information I had received that the foremen had 7 not been threatening him; that the foreman -- I did not find 8 anyone who could confirm that anyone had made those kinds of 9 statements to him. I think it was speculation on Mr. 10 Mattingly's part as to whether or not it would be a safety 11 hazard for him to work the folder. I don't think anyone 12 really knew that. 13 Q. You regarded that as just speculation on the 14 part of Mr. Mattingly? 15 A. Yes, sir. I would say that was Mr. Mattingly's 16 opinion as to whether or not it would be safe for Mr. 17 Wesbecker to work the folder. 18 Q. Let me direct your attention, next, Ms. Warman, 19 to a document that's been marked and filed as Plaintiffs' 20 Exhibit 18. This is a multipage document, the first page just 21 simply says, "Pursuant to our telephone conversation, enclosed 22 please" -- it's addressed to you, first of all -- "enclosed 23 please find Herb Segal's letter regarding Social Security 24 disability and the report of Doctor Coleman." The second -- 25 excuse me. The third page of this document is the page I'm 187 1 most interested in. Let me direct your attention to that 2 page, please. The very first paragraph it says, "Mr. Joseph 3 Wesbecker has been under my care since 7-8-87. He presented 4 with a complicated past history with several previous 5 psychiatric hospitalizations and several different 6 psychiatrists. My present diagnosis is schizoaffective 7 disorder. In the past, he has been diagnosed as bipolar 8 disorder; however, he displays some features more suggestive 9 of schizoaffective disorder with suspiciousness, irritability 10 and distrust. He has had several occasions of experiencing 11 illusions (seeing the floor or ceiling move). His major 12 predominant problem is depression of a chronic nature." Did I 13 read that correctly so far? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Did you read this document as of the end of 16 November when it was sent to you by Mr. Rich? 17 A. I probably did; yes, sir. 18 Q. And therefore you were aware that Mr. 19 Wesbecker's diagnosis was no longer just simply depression but 20 was a schizoaffective disorder, as well as depression; 21 correct? 22 A. The letter says it's schizoaffective disorder. 23 I'm not sure I would know the difference. 24 Q. That was going to be my next question. Did this 25 mean anything at all to you? 188 1 A. No. 2 Q. The letter goes on to say a couple of sentences 3 down, "He has been continually depressed since being under my 4 care and has deteriorated in the last four months in spite of 5 appropriate medications." Did I read that correctly? 6 A. Yes, sir; you did. 7 Q. Take a look at the fourth paragraph down. "I 8 feel prognosis for significant improvement is poor and he will 9 probably be unable in the future to be gainfully employed." 10 Did I read it correctly? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Lastly, on the last paragraph, second sentence: 13 "He continues to be depressed with blunted affect. He was 14 suspicious and wondered if he had been hypnotized by me during 15 our previous session. Memory was intact. He had several 16 recent episodes of illusions (feeling like the floor or 17 ceiling was moving)." And then signed by Lee A. Coleman, 18 M.D.; correct? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. This is dated September 29, 1988, two weeks less 21 than a year before the shootings; correct? 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. I'm going to skip, Ms. Warman, a document that's 24 marked Plaintiffs' Exhibit 19 because you read it. It's a 25 letter from Mr. Rich to Mr. Segal; correct? 189 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. However, I want to direct your attention to the 3 next document, which was not read. It's Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4 No. 20. It is again a document written on the Human Relations 5 Commission stationery dated December 30, 1988. It's signed at 6 the very back by Elizabeth Shipley, compliance supervisor, and 7 it's addressed to Mr. Ivan Rich, and it says, "Dear Mr. Rich, 8 the assistant city law director, Laura Harris, mentioned that 9 in a conversation you seemed to indicate a doubt that there 10 was a basis for the case. The respondent stated it was 11 impossible to accommodate Mr. Wesbecker due to a conflict with 12 the union contract. That proved to be untrue as stated in a 13 letter from the union president, which I provided to the 14 respondent. That situation makes this agency a little uneasy 15 about the credibility of the respondent." Did I read that 16 correctly? 17 A. Yes, sir; you did. 18 Q. Next paragraph says, "The respondent keeps 19 insisting that all employees must perform all functions. This 20 simply is not accurate and testimony will amply clarify that 21 point." Did I read that correctly? 22 A. Yes, sir; you did. 23 Q. Next paragraph, "This case should have been 24 settled months ago. From my perspective, the respondent did 25 not seem to understand the needs of an employee with a mental 190 1 disability." Did I read it correctly? 2 A. Yes, sir; you did. 3 Q. The last paragraph on that page says, "Mr. 4 Wesbecker, however, is physically able to handle the folder 5 and evidence will indicate he did so in a competent manner. 6 Mentally, however, the stress connected with the operation of 7 the folder made the function intolerable." Did I read that 8 correctly? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Going to the second page, just a few sentences 11 on this page. Let's begin at the top. "He will testify that 12 the foreman changed the speed to make it more difficult to 13 operate and, when he was not assigned to the folder, taunted 14 him that in the next few hours or on the next day he might be 15 so assigned. It is this harassment which exacerbated his 16 mental condition. The respondent in effect used his very 17 handicap -- mental handicap -- against him and increased his 18 fears. These actions will influence a panel to award Mr. 19 Wesbecker a monetary amount. The respondent does not 20 understand how stress and resulting fear affect a person with 21 a mental disability. The disability, though not visible, is 22 as real as a physical disability such as Mr. Ganote's and 23 other employees." Did I read that correctly? 24 A. Close. 25 Q. Next paragraph says, "This difference which may 191 1 seem insignificant to the respondent indicates in a concrete 2 way the lack of understanding of Mr. Wesbecker's disability. 3 It is just as impossible for him to work the folder due to his 4 mental problem as it is for a person with a physical 5 disability to work the folder." And then going down to the 6 next paragraph where it begins with the word why. "Why then 7 does the respondent not understand that the same danger is 8 involved if Mr. Wesbecker were asked to run the folder?" It 9 could be a danger to himself and a risk of serious injury to 10 other employees." Did I read that correctly? 11 A. Yes, you did. 12 Q. The letter ends with the last paragraph where it 13 says, "Ms. Harris indicated that a settlement might still be 14 possible at this late date. I hope this letter will more 15 fully explain the reasons for the complaint. Mr. Wesbecker 16 will show that he suffers from a mental problem and was 17 treated differently because of that problem. The respondent's 18 reason for the difference, the union contract, was clearly 19 pretext." Did I read that correctly? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Did you get a copy of this letter at the time 22 that it was written, Ms. Warman, in late December, almost the 23 last day of the year in 1988? 24 A. There's nothing on here to indicate that I did 25 or didn't. I really don't remember. 192 1 Q. The complaint was originally filed in May of 2 1987. This letter was written the next-to-last day in the 3 year 1988, so as of that time the complaint was a year and 4 seven months old; correct? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, let me direct your attention 7 lastly in this package -- not lastly yet, but next to the 8 last -- to the February 27, 1989 letter. If I understand 9 correctly, this letter was written by you to Mr. Wesbecker at 10 his home at 7300 Nottoway Circle; am I correct in that 11 understanding? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. And if I understand correctly, "Beginning on 14 October 1, and continuing each month thereafter for the 15 duration of your disablement until age 65, your monthly 16 payment will be $391.21." Correct? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Ms. Warman, would you agree with me that there's 19 no mention in this letter that this will be supplemented by 20 Social Security payments? 21 A. I agree that's not in this particular letter. 22 Q. In the next paragraph of the letter it goes on 23 to talk about, "I have also enclosed a letter which you need 24 to sign concerning medical benefits. As you may know, 25 effective January 1, 1989, we began charging medical insurance 193 1 premiums to our retired, widowed, and disabled employees. The 2 premium for your coverage at this time is $78 per month. This 3 amount will be deducted from your monthly LTD check, unless 4 you elect to discontinue your coverage." Did I read that 5 correctly? 6 A. Yes, sir; you did. 7 Q. Ms. Warman, as I understand it, prior to 8 January 1, 1989, Standard Gravure paid the premium for medical 9 insurance for retired, widowed and disabled employees; isn't 10 that true? 11 A. Yes, sir; that is correct. 12 Q. And when Mr. Shea -- on December 31 or 13 January 1, the effective date, Mr. Shea terminated that 14 benefit, didn't he? 15 A. He didn't terminate the benefit. He started 16 charging premium for the insurance. 17 Q. In other words, prior to that time and under the 18 Binghams, the premiums had been paid by the company; correct? 19 A. Yes, sir. That's correct. 20 Q. And effective January 1, 1989, the employees had 21 to pay that, particularly the retired, widowed and disabled; 22 is that true? 23 A. Well, all employees paid a portion of their 24 medical insurance benefits. Active employees always had. 25 Q. But the retired, disabled and widowed now had to 194 1 pay all or some? 2 A. I think it was a portion, only a portion of 3 their medical insurance premiums. 4 Q. So if I understand correctly, if we start with 5 $391.21, and if you subtract $78, if my math is correct, the 6 net check is $313.21? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, let me direct your attention to 9 the next document, which I believe is Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 10 24. And it's also dated February 27, 1989; am I correct? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Would this have been the letter that's referred 13 to in the letter of the same date, both of which went to Mr. 14 Wesbecker at the same time? 15 A. Excuse me. I'm confused. I thought we were 16 talking about 24 in the original -- in the first letter. 17 Q. I'm sorry. We're on 25. I apologize. They're 18 both made on the same date addressed to the same person and 19 signed by the same person; right? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. All right. Now, we're referring to the one 22 that's Exhibit No. -- Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 25 at the very 23 bottom; right? 24 A. Right. This is the letter that was referred to 25 in Exhibit 24. 195 1 Q. All right. That was my question and I 2 appreciate your clearing me up on that. These two letters 3 went together to Mr. Wesbecker? 4 A. Yes, sir; they did. 5 Q. Fair enough. Take a look at the second 6 paragraph. It says, "Although the company intends to continue 7 your medical plan indefinitely, we reserve the right to change 8 or end it at any time, including the right to change the 9 amount of contributions you are required to make to the plan." 10 Did I read that correctly? 11 A. Yes, you did. 12 Q. Another change that was effective January 1, 13 1989, by Mr. Shea was that he reserved the right -- or, the 14 company reserved the right to end the medical coverage any 15 time he wanted; isn't that right? 16 A. That is not a change from the previous policy. 17 That had always been the owner's right to do that. 18 Q. And you took this occasion to write and to tell 19 that to Mr. Wesbecker? 20 A. We took this occasion every time we put someone 21 on long-term disability or retired them, this verbiage went in 22 their information. 23 Q. In other words, as of February 27, 1989, 24 Standard Gravure could decide to terminate Mr. Wesbecker's 25 medical coverage at any time? 196 1 A. And they could have done that prior to that 2 time. 3 Q. All right. Take a look at the next paragraph 4 where it says, "If the plan is ended, active participants, 5 retired and beneficiaries -- retired employees and 6 beneficiaries will have no further rights (other than payment 7 of any covered expenses you had incurred before the plan 8 ended)." Did I read that correctly? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. No further rights; correct? 11 A. That is correct. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Last paragraph says, "After all benefits have 13 been paid and legal requirements have been met, the plan will 14 turn over any remaining plan money to the company." Did I 15 read that correctly? 16 A. Yes, you did. 17 Q. In other words, if the company elected to cancel 18 the employees' medical coverage, if there was money left in 19 that plan it didn't go to the employees; it went to the 20 company. Correct? 21 A. All the benefits were paid -- according to the 22 insurance plan document, all the benefits would have been paid 23 and then any excess money would have gone back to the company; 24 that is correct. 25 Q. Would have gone to the company, not to the 197 1 employees? 2 A. The way the letter is written, it says it would 3 go back to the company. 4 Q. And is that the case? 5 A. We never terminated the plan. 6 Q. This was a letter to Mr. Wesbecker advising him 7 that if it was terminated that's where the money would go? 8 A. Yes, sir. That's what it says. 9 Q. And then down below, "I have read and understand 10 the above information," signed Joseph T. Wesbecker; am I 11 correct? 12 A. Yes, sir. 13 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, let me ask you to put those 14 documents aside, and let me direct your attention to another 15 topic. Let me go back for just a moment and see if I 16 understand what occurred on September 14, 1989, with regard to 17 you. If I understand correctly, this is a photograph -- oh, 18 can you see this, Ms. Warman? Let me turn it toward you just 19 a fraction and hopefully we can all see it. Can you see that? 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. Can everyone else see this? 22 MR. SMITH: I can't see it. 23 MR. STOPHER: I think the best place is right 24 over there, Paul. 25 Ms. Warman, just to get you oriented, it's my 198 1 understanding that this is the door leading out of the 2 reception area on the third floor in the administrative 3 offices; is that accurate as far as you can tell by looking at 4 that photograph? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Now, beginning with that vantage point, Ms. 7 Warman, and that is in fact Defendants' Exhibit 19, as 8 previously marked and filed. If you stand in that doorway, 9 Ms. Warman, you look down a hallway and at the end of that 10 hallway there is a door shown in that photograph. Can you see 11 that? 12 A. I'm not sure what you're referring to as the 13 door. Can you point it out? 14 A. Right there. Right in between the two door 15 jambs. 16 Q. I see what you're pointing at, but I can't tell 17 exactly where that is. 18 Q. All right. Let me try another photograph and 19 see if it makes it clearer. 20 A. I can see the door at the end. 21 Q. Do you recognize that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And is that a long hallway that that door 24 leads -- the door out of the reception area leads into that 25 long hallway? 199 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And if I understand correctly, in looking at 3 this photograph your office was located inside a door 4 immediately to the left of the door that's shown there at the 5 end of the hallway; is that correct? 6 A. On this side of that door? 7 Q. The left side. 8 A. As you're looking at that on the left, yes, 9 before you go through that door; right. 10 Q. All right. That is, for the record, Your Honor, 11 Defendants' Exhibit 24. Let me show you another view of the 12 same area, looking down the hallway once again, the doors 13 shown there lead into the bindery; do you see that door? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. And your office door would be immediately to the 16 left; correct? 17 A. The door that went into personnel would be 18 immediately to the left and then my office was to the right? 19 Q. Correct. 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. All right. That's Defendants' Exhibit No. 25. 22 Let me skip over some of these that I think are duplicative. 23 Ms. Warman, this is a photograph that once again shows the 24 door to the bindery and then the door jamb to the left which 25 led into the personnel office. Does that look accurate? 200 1 A. Yes, sir; it does. 2 Q. Now, if I understand correctly, Ms. Warman, you 3 were positioned just outside that door in the hallway? 4 A. I had just barely stepped into the hallway; yes, 5 sir. 6 Q. And if I understand correctly you never saw Mr. 7 Wesbecker? 8 A. That is correct. 9 Q. And I take it since you didn't see him, you had 10 no information as to exactly where he was in that hallway? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. All right. Now, if I understand correctly, you 13 went back or were knocked back into that door; am I correct? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Let me show you a photograph here of the 16 interior, I believe, of the personnel office. Do you 17 recognize that? 18 A. Yes, sir; I do. 19 Q. And if I understand correctly, this door, which 20 is represented here, it's open, and there's a blue door, 21 actually it's the door to the bindery right behind it; 22 correct? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. That's the door that leads out into the hallway; 25 correct? 201 1 A. Yes, sir. That's right. 2 Q. You came through that door and then went into 3 your office, which is this door here in this photograph to the 4 left; am I correct? 5 A. After I was shot? 6 Q. Yes, ma'am. 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. And you closed the door and perhaps even locked 9 the door? 10 A. I may have. 11 Q. It had a locking mechanism in the handle of the 12 door; correct? 13 A. Yes, it did. 14 Q. Ms. Miller, who was with you, came back through 15 this door, also, if I understand correctly? 16 A. As far as I know, that is the door Jackie was 17 using; yes, sir. 18 Q. And she had her desk in the office out here in 19 this room; correct? 20 A. Yes. This side of that desk you see there. 21 Q. All right. Ms. Warman, let me next show you a 22 photograph taken by the police of the interior of your office, 23 I believe. Do you recognize that? 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. Ms. Warman, it appears to me in your office 202 1 there's a TV screen. Do you see that? 2 A. Yes, sir. Yes, I do. 3 Q. Do you know what that TV screen was hooked up 4 to? 5 A. Yes, sir; I do. 6 Q. What was it hooked up to? 7 A. It was hooked up to a camera in the personnel 8 office so that I could see who came into the personnel office 9 when I was discussing confidential matters, so that I would be 10 careful -- so that I would be careful that I would not discuss 11 anything confidential while there was someone out there 12 outside the personnel area. 13 Q. In other words, it enabled you to see who was in 14 the outer office and perhaps even what they were doing? 15 A. To a certain extent, yes; it didn't cover the 16 whole office, but I could see -- if they were standing in the 17 right place, I could see who they were. 18 Q. Ms. Warman, is this the monitor that used to be 19 on the receptionist's desk and that showed the Sixth Street 20 lobby entrance? 21 A. I'm not sure if it is. It could have been. 22 Q. Your Honor, we would mark and file as exhibits 23 the photographs that are marked as Defendants' Exhibits 23, 24 24, 25, 36, 40 and 42. 25 JUDGE POTTER: They will be admitted. 203 1 Q. Ms. Warman, just a few other items. Did you 2 know that Jackie Miller was carrying a gun on September 14, 3 1989? 4 A. No, sir; I did not. 5 Q. And that she had that weapon in her purse in her 6 office? 7 A. No, sir; I did not. 8 Q. Now, Ms. Warman, if I understand you correctly, 9 you testified this morning that Mr. Shea was viewed by the 10 employees as a white knight; did I understand correctly? 11 A. That was my impression of -- at the beginning 12 when Mr. Shea first purchased the company, I felt like that 13 that was the way the employees felt about him, yes. That's my 14 terminology, though. 15 Q. And it was your terminology, also, that he was 16 perceived by the employees as someone who would not come raid 17 the company assets, close the plant and lay them all off; 18 correct? 19 A. What I think they perceived was that they had a 20 better chance of keeping Standard Gravure operating with Mr. 21 Shea than they would have with anyone else, any other 22 prospective buyers. 23 Q. Isn't that in fact what happened, Mrs. Warman? 24 A. I'm sorry, sir, what happened? 25 Q. Didn't in fact Mr. Shea take the company assets, 204 1 close the plant and leave town? 2 A. Well, I don't think he did that in January of 3 '87, or shortly after he purchased the company. Mr. Shea was 4 dealt a lot of bad things during the time he was there and -- 5 a major fire and explosion in '88, the shooting in '89, 6 another fire in '90. I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the 7 same thing. 8 Q. Do you think the employees felt the same way 9 about him as you've just expressed? 10 A. I have no idea what all the other employees 11 felt. I know I was a member of management and, therefore, my 12 viewpoint may have been different than the people in the 13 plant. 14 Q. Ms. Warman, if I understand it correctly, you 15 rarely, if ever, went to the pressroom; am I right? 16 A. I did not go to the pressroom on a regular 17 basis. 18 Q. Did you attempt to determine what the attitude 19 was in the pressroom toward Mr. Shea and Mr. McCall and the 20 rest of management? 21 A. No. Did I attempt to do that? No. 22 Q. Ms. Warman, are you aware of the fact that 23 shortly after Mr. Shea purchased the company that he hired 24 Mercer-Meidinger to do an attitude and job satisfaction survey 25 of the employees at Standard Gravure? 205 1 A. Yes. Now that you mention that, I do remember 2 that; yes, sir. 3 Q. You had forgotten about that this morning when 4 you testified? 5 A. I really wasn't thinking about attitude surveys 6 this morning, no. 7 Q. Do you know what level of hostility that 8 attitude survey showed in the pressroom among the employees 9 with regard to Mr. Shea? 10 A. No, sir; I don't recall. 11 Q. You were never given that survey or the results 12 of that survey and the ratings of hostility between management 13 and employees? 14 A. I'm not sure the attitude survey would have 15 rated hostilities. I'm sure I've seen copies of the attitude 16 survey, but today I cannot tell you what it said. I couldn't 17 remember we had one. 18 Q. Mrs. Warman, do you recall that shortly after 19 Mr. Shea came in -- excuse me, about a year later, he and 20 others wrote an employee newsletter called Standard Gravure's 21 Echo? Do you recall that? 22 A. The Echo; yes, sir. 23 Q. And in the Echo, do you recall that Mr. Shea 24 wrote that to be profitable in an environment of declining 25 prices increased volume for productivity improvements is the 206 1 name of the game? Does that ring a bell with you? 2 A. I don't recall that, but that wouldn't surprise 3 me. 4 Q. Do you recall that Mr. Shea and others in the 5 Echo requested that the presses be sped up? 6 A. In the Echo? 7 Q. Yes, ma'am. 8 A. No. I don't recall that. But I didn't commit 9 that to memory. 10 Q. After Mr. Shea came in, Ms. Warman, were the 11 presses in the pressroom sped up? 12 A. I would have no way of knowing that. 13 Q. You were not aware of the requirements for the 14 increased number of books or production per hour in the 15 pressroom? 16 A. I did not deal with that part of it. No. 17 Q. As the person responsible for human relations, 18 were you responsible to determine the effect of the stress of 19 increased production and production requirements, particularly 20 on the pressmen working the folders? 21 A. I'm not sure I was qualified to determine the 22 stress. I'm not an expert. 23 Q. Or the stress level? 24 A. I'm not an expert on stress level. 25 Q. Ms. Warman, after Mr. Shea purchased Standard 207 1 Gravure, was there ever an effort to have an employee 2 assistance program to provide a counselor to deal with 3 employees who had emotional or psychiatric or behavioral 4 problems? 5 A. We actually had discussed an employee assistance 6 program with Charter Hospital and had an agreement that we 7 would try to send our -- those employees who wished to go, 8 needed some counseling, that we would refer them there, if 9 that was okay with them. We would never force them to go 10 there, but we did work out an arrangement with Charter. 11 Q. Was that ever offered with Mr. Wesbecker? 12 A. Mr. Wesbecker never asked for that. 13 Q. So I take it it was never offered since he never 14 asked for it? 15 A. Mr. Wesbecker never asked me about that. I 16 never offered it to him. 17 Q. Was Mr. Lampton offered as an employee 18 assistance person to deal with Mr. Wesbecker or other 19 employees at Standard Gravure? 20 A. Mr. Lampton, as far as I know, we never really 21 had a contract with Mr. Lampton after Standard Gravure was 22 purchased by Mr. Shea. I don't think that preempted anyone 23 from going to see him because that benefit was covered under 24 insurance, but it was not an employee assistance program, per 25 se. 208 1 Q. So I take it, at least in Mr. Wesbecker's case, 2 no such counseling was offered to him either because he didn't 3 ask for it or because Mr. Lampton didn't offer it; is that a 4 fair statement? 5 MR. SMITH: We object to that, Your Honor. Mr. 6 Wesbecker was under the care of the psychiatrist being paid 7 for by the group health carrier. 8 JUDGE POTTER: Objection is sustained. I think 9 it mischaracterizes the evidence. 10 Q. Ms. Warman, let me next show you a document 11 entitled Defendant's -- or marked Defendant's Exhibit No. 161. 12 MR. SMITH: I have an objection, Your Honor. I 13 have an objection, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE POTTER: Approach the bench. 15 (BENCH DISCUSSION) 16 JUDGE POTTER: What is your objection, Mr. 17 Smith? 18 MR. SMITH: There's about 18 objections; Number 19 One, it refers to a party that's not a party to this case; 20 Number Two, it's hearsay. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Suppose we take that off. 22 MR. SMITH: I haven't been provided with this 23 document. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Wait just a second. Let -- Mr. 25 Stopher, what is the relevance of this? 209 1 MR. SMITH: This whole analysis is hearsay to 2 her. It's done by Hartford. 3 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher? 4 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, Mr. Shea and -- Mr. 5 Shea has testified that Mrs. Warman got this document and that 6 it was part of her job responsibility to follow up on this. 7 MR. SMITH: It's totally immaterial whether she 8 was supposed to -- 9 JUDGE POTTER: What does this document say? 10 MR. STOPHER: It deals with evacuation plans, 11 their sensitivity to security, their refusal to follow 12 recommendations with regard to safety. 13 JUDGE POTTER: What's the date of this thing? 14 MR. STOPHER: It's October 1986, Your Honor. 15 October 1988, Your Honor. See it on the very first page? 16 MR. SMITH: She told me in confidence that she 17 never saw it. Number Two is to interject -- they can't 18 interject somebody else's standards there. 19 MR. STOPHER: Your Honor, there's testimony from 20 Mr. Shea that she was responsible for this. There was 21 testimony that it was sent to them to make them comply with 22 the recommendations that are detailed on page -- the fourth 23 page, summary of loss potential and so forth, and more 24 particularly, Your Honor, under the caption Recommendations, 25 and she can deny that she ever saw it or had anything to do 210 1 with it. 2 JUDGE POTTER: Well, before we can read it, she 3 can identify it. And objection is overruled if it's just that 4 part. 5 MR. STOPHER: I've got another copy of it and 6 I'll retrieve it from her. 7 (BENCH DISCUSSION CONCLUDED) 8 Q. Ms. Warman, let me trade documents with you, and 9 hand you what's been marked as Defendants' Exhibit 161. Let 10 me ask you to take a look at that document, if you would, 11 please, and tell us whether or not you have ever seen that 12 document before. 13 A. (Reviews document) No, sir. I have no knowledge 14 of this document. 15 Q. It was never given to you by any representative, 16 particularly Mr. Shea, for follow-up and analysis? 17 A. No, sir. 18 Q. Your Honor, at this time we will withhold the 19 filing of Exhibit 161 to be refiled and identified at a later 20 date with another witness. 21 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. 22 MR. STOPHER: That's all I have, Ms. Warman. 23 Thank you. 24 JUDGE POTTER: Any redirect, Mr. Smith? 25 MR. SMITH: Yes, Your Honor. 211 1 FURTHER_EXAMINATION _______ ___________ 2 3 BY_MR._SMITH: __ ___ ______ 4 Q. Ms. Warman, have you felt like you've been in 5 God's hands while Mr. Stopher was examining you? 6 A. I feel like I've been in Mr. Stopher's hands. 7 Q. That's what I thought. Did you do anything 8 purposely to discriminate against Joseph Wesbecker? 9 A. Absolutely not. 10 Q. You were shot, weren't you? 11 A. Yes, sir; I was. 12 Q. Did you see him point any gun at you? 13 A. No, sir; I did not. 14 Q. Did you do anything to encourage Mr. Joseph 15 Wesbecker to shoot you? 16 A. No, sir; I did not. 17 Q. Do you know of anything that anybody at Standard 18 Gravure did to encourage him to shoot them? 19 A. No, sir; I do not. 20 Q. Do you know of anything that Richard Barger 21 did -- as the employee relations manager yourself, do you know 22 anything that Richard Barger did to encourage him to shoot 23 him? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. Do you know anything that Angela Bowman, your 212 1 niece, did to become paralyzed by virtue of his shots? 2 A. Absolutely not. 3 Q. Do you know of anything that Forrest Conrad did, 4 an employee of the maintenance department, did anything to 5 discriminate against Joseph Wesbecker? 6 A. No, sir. 7 Q. Do you know anything about Bill Ganote and what 8 he might have done to Joseph Wesbecker to cause Joseph 9 Wesbecker to shoot him and kill him? 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. Do you know anything about what Kenny Fentress 12 might have done in connection with his employment with Joseph 13 Wesbecker to cause him to lose his life after being shot and 14 spend four days in an agonizing death? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. Do you know anything about what Paul Gnadinger 17 did to him? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Do you know anything about what Chuck Gorman did 20 to Joseph Wesbecker? 21 A. No, sir. 22 Q. Did you ever hear any complaints about anything 23 those people did to Joseph Wesbecker? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. Is this a case about Standard Gravure and what 213 1 they did to Joseph Wesbecker, as far as you know? 2 A. I don't think so. 3 MR. STOPHER: Objection, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Sustained. 5 Q. Do you know anything about what Bill Hoffmann 6 might have done to Joseph Wesbecker to cause him to shoot him? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. He was a pressman, wasn't he? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Do you know that he and Bill Hoffmann worked 11 together? 12 A. They were both pressmen. 13 Q. Do you know of anything that Sharon Needy, the 14 receptionist there that he shot first, might have done to 15 cause him to shoot her? 16 A. Absolutely not. 17 Q. Do you know if she was involved in any plan of 18 discrimination at Standard Gravure against Joseph Wesbecker? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Do you know anything about Mr. James Husband, 21 about what he might have done to discriminate against Joseph 22 Wesbecker? 23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. Or whether or not he deserved to die as a result 25 of any charges of discrimination that Joseph Wesbecker might 214 1 have had? 2 A. No. 3 Q. In fact, wasn't Joseph Wesbecker off of the job 4 when he came in on September 14th? 5 A. Yes, sir; he was. 6 Q. And hadn't he been off the job for a year? 7 A. Yes, sir; he had. 8 Q. Do you know anything about what Andrew Pointer 9 might have done -- 10 A. No, sir. 11 Q. -- to discriminate against Joseph Wesbecker? 12 A. No, sir. 13 Q. Do you know anything about what John Stein might 14 have done as he stood there at that elevator and got shot 15 point-blank in his head by Joseph Wesbecker? 16 A. No, sir. 17 Q. Do you know anything about what Lloyd White 18 might have done to Joseph Wesbecker? 19 A. No, sir. 20 Q. Do you know of anybody, any of these plaintiffs 21 that treated Joseph Wesbecker poorly? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Do you know in fact that some of these people 24 were friendly with him? 25 A. Yes, sir. I've heard that. 215 1 Q. Do you know anything about what James Wible 2 might have done? 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. Did you ever do anything intentionally to 5 discriminate against Joseph Wesbecker? 6 A. No, sir; I did not. 7 Q. Do you know of anything Michael Shea might have 8 done intentionally to discriminate against Joseph Wesbecker? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. When you investigated these claims of 11 discrimination, were you trying to screw him out of some 12 benefits? 13 A. No, sir. 14 Q. You never saw Joseph Wesbecker, did you? 15 A. No, sir. 16 Q. Never talked to him, as far as you understand? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. Were any of these letters that you wrote to him 19 anything other than form letters? 20 A. That's all they were. 21 Q. Were they anything other than letters that would 22 have been written to any employee that was going on long-term 23 disability status? 24 A. That's correct. They're the same. 25 Q. Do you have a grudge against Joseph Wesbecker? 216 1 A. Not at all. 2 Q. Do you even today? 3 A. No, sir. 4 Q. That's all I have, Your Honor. 5 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, 6 we're going to take the evening recess. 7 Marsha, have you got those? Why don't you 8 collect them right now. 9 Ladies and gentlemen, what the other folders 10 are -- it's going to mess us up. Now you've got 14-inch 11 folders. Why don't you put your notepad inside your manila 12 envelope. My sheriff will... 13 Okay. Now, to remind you all, the starting time 14 tomorrow is 9:00 instead of 9:30, so that you should be 15 here -- have they put the doorbell in yet? Hopefully, there 16 will be a doorbell out there so you won't have to tap on 17 windows and whatnot to get in, but 9:00 tomorrow morning is 18 when I expect you to be in the jury room. 19 I'm going to give you the same admonition that 20 I've given you before, and I want to emphasize the part about 21 letting other people communicate with you about this case. It 22 not only applies to somebody that may have some connection to 23 the case and some improper motive, but we're talking about 24 absolutely everybody; we're talking about your friends and 25 family. And also another way people might communicate with 217 1 you is, you know, through the newspaper or the television, so 2 don't let anybody communicate with you on this case, and any 3 attempt to do so should be reported to me. Do not discuss the 4 case among yourselves or form or express opinions about it 5 until it is finally submitted to you. We'll stand in recess 6 until 9:00 tomorrow morning. 7 (JURORS EXCUSED AT 5:08 P.M.) 8 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Stopher, Mr. Smith, I need 9 about ten minutes of your-all's time. Do you want to take a 10 few minutes' recess or do you want to go back and do it now? 11 MR. STOPHER: We'll go ahead. 12 (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS OCCURRED IN ROOM 148) 13 JUDGE POTTER: Let me just -- this isn't 14 important, but while you-all are worried about your things, 15 I've got a sign out there that says get Kleenex and a whole 16 different set of priorities. I thought we had talked at some 17 time, and maybe we didn't, about people producing lists of 18 their exhibits so that we could check them off as they came 19 in. How about this. I can have my secretary do it or maybe 20 Ms. Piper here could do it in conjunction with your-all's 21 secretaries that each day they would get together and agree 22 what exhibits were introduced that day and the next morning 23 then have a typed list that says "Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 18, 24 Photo of Elevator," and so you'd have a list that says the 25 witness it came in on and the day. And then Ms. Piper, you 218 1 would go back and you would have another list, and each day 2 you would have to insert those into your master list, so you 3 go one, two, three, four, five; one, seven, twelve; whatever 4 it happens to be. And the one that goes one, seven, five 5 would have the day it was introduced and the witness 6 introduced on it. And, you know, if you could get together 7 with somebody from your-all's side at the end of every day and 8 say this is -- because you're taking notes throughout; right? 9 This is what I think happened, there are 20 exhibits that came 10 in today and start generating a list and then producing them 11 in the morning, and if we've got any problems, we'll take them 12 up then. 13 MR. STOPHER: Could I make a suggestion to 14 simplify that hopefully from their end, as well? We'll be 15 glad to compile a list of exhibits we introduced to them and 16 you. And they can do the same for us. If there's any problem 17 with it, then we'll straighten it out. 18 MS. ZETTLER: You're thinking of more of a 19 running list of all of them, Judge? 20 MR. STOPHER: No. No. No. Everything that we 21 put in today, we'll give you a list of ours. They'll give you 22 a list of what they put in. 23 JUDGE POTTER: All right. But what I would like 24 at the end of the day is for Ms. Piper and somebody from 25 your-all's side to get together and decide ahead of time if 219 1 there's going to be any problem with tomorrow's list because 2 that's the best time to work it out. 3 MR. STOPHER: Tomorrow's list? 4 JUDGE POTTER: Apparently you'll give me a list 5 of what came in today. 6 MR. STOPHER: Okay. All right. 7 JUDGE POTTER: And what I'm also asking is not 8 only have it day by day, which would be today's date, Bowman, 9 what came in through her. And Warman what came in through her 10 but then have another list where you go back and it goes one, 11 three, five, seven, twelve, what that exhibit is and then the 12 date it came in and the witness it came in through. Do you 13 understand? 14 MS. ZETTLER: I've got a chart like that 15 actually in one of my books, Judge, so we can do that. 16 JUDGE POTTER: Today's list would just say 17 Defendant's exhibit number, what they are. And you could put 18 they came in through Bowman and the date. And then I would 19 want another list where they're actually in sort of a -- it 20 isn't significant today because the two lists will be 21 identical, but five days from now we want to know No. 12, what 22 it is, when it came in, a running list. 23 MS. ZETTLER: In numerical order? 24 JUDGE POTTER: Yes. I guess each keep your own. 25 MR. STOPHER: If we could be responsible for 220 1 ours and them for theirs. If we see something on theirs we 2 think is inaccurate, we'll let me them know; they'll do the 3 same for us. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Could you and somebody from their 5 side on the paralegal level get together for five minutes on 6 the end of each day and run together what they have? 7 MS. ZETTLER: We'll be happy to keep you a 8 running list. 9 JUDGE POTTER: I'm going to scratch two things 10 off my list of worried about and you-all, if you have it, 11 bring it up. Your admonition on what you want to do about the 12 stamp on the things. 13 MR. FREEMAN: We've got a request on that right 14 here, Judge. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. All right. (Examines 16 document) You're going to leave off -- I thought they were 17 going to address the word Fentress or address the multipanel 18 part, but do you have any problem with that, that when they 19 introduce the first document that has confidential written on 20 it they ask me and I give that instruction? 21 MR. SMITH: That's fine. 22 MR. FREEMAN: It's innocuous, anyway. Not near 23 strong enough. 24 JUDGE POTTER: I can cross that off my list. 25 The other thing that I'm going to cross off my list is how you 221 1 want documents handled that are supposedly to be kept secret. 2 You-all will just have to bring that up when the problem 3 arises; it's not something I'm going to keep track of. 4 MR. STOPHER: We still haven't had any response 5 with what we're supposed to do with future witnesses with 6 regard to daily transscript. 7 MR. SMITH: I want to be able to show it to my 8 expert what testimony has been elicited. 9 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. Is that agreeable with 10 you, Mr. Stopher? 11 MR. STOPHER: Provided, Your Honor, that if it 12 changes his opinions that we be given advance notice of that. 13 MR. FREEMAN: Or strengthens them in some way. 14 MR. STOPHER: I mean, if it's going to change 15 the expert discovery depositions, then we're all shooting in 16 the dark. 17 MR. SMITH: There's going to be a lot of 18 evidence concerning what Joseph Wesbecker's mental state 19 was -- he's taken three or four hundred depositions on this, 20 which we've summarized some and given some to our expert. And 21 there's going to be in-person testimony that probably is going 22 to be subject to better cross-examination than was done 23 originally to more fully develop what the man's -- 24 JUDGE POTTER: But the point is your guy's not 25 going to go -- if anybody's expert does a 90-degree turn, 222 1 you're under an obligation pursuant to Rule 26 whatever it is 2 to supplement your responses. Okay? And I don't know what 3 more I can say than that. You know, obviously it's going to 4 strengthen certain points of a person's testimony; it may make 5 him back off a little bit in other places, but anybody takes a 6 serious turn, they need to supplement their expert 7 interrogatory answers. 8 And let me just say that is my belief, my own 9 opinion that that's consistent with the rule. I've researched 10 this. I've never had to -- just like this case. You-all 11 agreed on what ought to happen. I don't think the rule is 12 there to trap the dishonest witness. What it is, therefore, 13 is to prevent the honest witness from being unconsciously 14 polluted by seeing this happen. You know, if you say the 15 light's red, she says it's green, and she hears you testify 16 for two hours and she's honest, she'll come off less strong. 17 And I really don't think it's there, although the new rules -- 18 the commentary to the new rules seem to suggest that point I 19 still really think it's there not to trap the dishonest 20 witnesses. 21 But you-all have agreed that you can show 22 testimony to people who are going to testify, and just so 23 there's no mistake, that would include their experts seeing 24 Doctor Breggin or Doctor Lord or whoever it happens to be from 25 your side. And, of course, they can be cross-examined on it 223 1 that isn't it true you've read this stuff. 2 One small point, and I do -- we all have our 3 fetishes. Mr. Freeman, I'm going to ask you if you'll leave a 4 vacant chair between the jury box and where you sit. There's 5 a pole there and there's a bar and it's really not getting 6 into the jury box, but just for my own thing, if you'd leave 7 one vacant chair. And I'll have some more chairs there. 8 MR. SMITH: He was kissing on one of the jurors, 9 but I wasn't going to tell on him. 10 JUDGE POTTER: Where are we going with the 11 jury's copy of exhibits? It seems like to me we need to 12 figure out what volume we're going to be talking about so 13 that, you know, these copies that are being passed out to the 14 jury. We have to set up some kind of system so if they're 15 going to get two feet of documents, they have to have some way 16 to manage them, and then a decision has to be made and I 17 should think they should be told whether those copies will be 18 taken back to the jury room with them. Obviously, they'll get 19 the originals, but they should be told so that they don't make 20 notes on them -- and, Mr. Freeman, I do allow my jurors to 21 take their notes to the jury room -- so they don't make notes 22 on them and have them yanked away or we don't get some kind of 23 battle. 24 MR. FREEMAN: Everything they're going to have 25 is going to be admitted into evidence. 224 1 JUDGE POTTER: But it's perhaps more persuasive 2 to have thirty copies of something back there than two, or 3 one, really. So you-all need to talk about that, how many you 4 anticipate. I could even see letting them have it and then 5 taking it away from them during the trial, like after Ms. 6 Warman leaves and things like that, tell them that they'll be 7 taken away from them. You-all need to talk about that and we 8 all get the same plan and I really don't have a -- 9 MR. SMITH: We could really get into an 10 unmanageable situation. 11 MR. FREEMAN: Another week they're not going to 12 be able to carry them. 13 JUDGE POTTER: That's what I'm thinking. Maybe 14 take them away from them. Let them have their little folders 15 for this witness's exhibits or maybe two or three witnesses' 16 exhibits and then say, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to 17 take them back because you're not going to hear anything about 18 this for a long, long time. I don't know. Can you-all get 19 together and just decide? 20 MR. FREEMAN: Sure. 21 JUDGE POTTER: That's all I had on my list 22 today. I think at some point -- I'm not going to do it today 23 because it's new -- is we need to set off some cutoff 24 deadlines for any additional witnesses that anybody wants to 25 bring in on the punitive damage portion, if we get there. And 225 1 I realize you-all each has their view about whether it's 2 appropriate or not, you know, it should even be done as a 3 second phase without compensatory damages being decided, but 4 that's what I've ruled, so, I mean, we just need to think 5 about in two weeks we'll have a cutoff for additional 6 witnesses for the punitive-damage part. Does anybody have 7 anything they want to bring up with me? 8 MR. SMITH: Yeah. I've got a couple things, 9 Your Honor. Over the weekend there's been a couple of 10 developments. There has been a rally at the courthouse 11 yesterday on depression and there was some media coverage on 12 this rally, and this lawsuit was mentioned. Apparently this 13 is Mental Health Week and all the depressed people in the city 14 came up with a candle and started -- there was news coverage 15 about this lawsuit in connection with depression, and there 16 were statements like "We hope that this lawsuit doesn't take 17 away our drug," et cetera, et cetera. Is that right, Nancy? 18 MS. ZETTLER: They called it a vigil, Your 19 Honor. 20 JUDGE POTTER: All I can suggest is the TV 21 stations if you call them and go down there will give you a 22 copy if there's something you want me to see what went on the 23 air. I had it down here to check one individual juror each 24 day to make sure they didn't see it so I kind of keep them on 25 their toes and I forgot to do it today. Mr. Bailey is 226 1 tomorrow. What are you asking me to do, Mr. Smith? 2 MR. SMITH: Tell them not to watch any news 3 programs at all. 4 JUDGE POTTER: That's what I thought I did. 5 MR. SMITH: Additionally, there's been Time 6 Magazine. 7 JUDGE POTTER: Was it in Time Magazine? I don't 8 subscribe. 9 MR. SMITH: Time Magazine has run a big article 10 on our expert. 11 JUDGE POTTER: He made it to the Sunday New York 12 Times. 13 MR. SMITH: It was in the Sunday New York Times 14 and Time Magazine. I don't want you to say, "Don't go out and 15 read Time," because I think they'd go out and read it. I 16 don't know that the Time article is that -- 17 MR. FREEMAN: When is it supposed to come out? 18 MR. SMITH: It's out. Now, it may not hit the 19 newsstand here for another couple of days. 20 MS. ZETTLER: Not only about this case but not 21 anything about Prozac, because basically it's attacking Doctor 22 Breggin on his opinion about Prozac. 23 JUDGE POTTER: The article that was in The New 24 York Times Sunday treated him like he was a legitimate 25 opposition. 227 1 MR. FREEMAN: Said he was an opportunist and 2 that he'd do anything to make money. I'm going to ask him 3 about that. 4 JUDGE POTTER: Anything else, Mr. Smith? 5 MR. SMITH: There was a motion for summary 6 judgment on the punitive damages that was filed and -- with 7 the original set of Lilly's motions. Then there was something 8 like an AO37, some local thing that was going to have to be 9 done. We haven't seen a copy of that. We still have a couple 10 of weeks to respond to it, if it was filed at that time. I'm 11 not sure where we were. I just don't want to let that catch 12 up with me. 13 JUDGE POTTER: Mr. Foley can tell you this. The 14 AOC form is something that's filed after your response and 15 when it's ready for me. It's just a little form that says, 16 Judge, this is now ready for you to decide it. So when your 17 time is up to file a response, either they or you will mail in 18 this pink sheet or give me the pink sheet that says I should 19 decide. And I don't look at it till I get that pink sheet and 20 if you-all want to by agreement, you know, say they want to 21 file a response, just hold off the pink sheet. 22 MR. FOLEY: We haven't gotten a response yet. 23 JUDGE POTTER: I think one of the orders gave 24 you a certain length of time. 25 MR. STOPHER: There's about ten days left. 228 1 MR. SMITH: That's right. I thought we had 2 about ten days to two weeks. But that AO form doesn't come in 3 till afterwards? 4 JUDGE POTTER: That's Administrative Office of 5 the Courts. Now you know how they feel when we're talking 6 about FDAs and GBAs and 1613s. You-all don't realize the 7 average -- maybe I'm showing my ignorance, but when you first 8 started this I did not know what a clinical trial was. I can 9 say we're trying something, clinic means we're doing it 10 clinically, you can kind of figure it out, but it wasn't 11 something that stopped in my mind. Like all those people know 12 what a drag race is; I doubt if they know what a clinical 13 trial is. Anything else? 14 MR. STOPHER: No. 15 JUDGE POTTER: Okay. See you-all at quarter of 16 nine in the morning. 17 (PROCEEDINGS TERMINATED THIS DATE AT 5:30 P.M.) 18 * * * 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 229 1 STATE OF KENTUCKY )( )( Sct. 2 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON )( 3 I, JULIA K. McBRIDE, Notary Public, State of 4 Kentucky at Large, hereby certify that the foregoing 5 Transcript of the Proceedings was taken at the time and place 6 stated in the caption; that the appearances were as set forth 7 in the caption; that said proceeding was taken down by me in 8 stenographic notes and thereafter reduced under my supervision 9 to the foregoing typewritten pages and that said typewritten 10 transcript is a true, accurate and complete record of my 11 stenographic notes so taken. 12 I further certify that I am not related by blood 13 or marriage to any of the parties hereto and that I have no 14 interest in the outcome of captioned case. 15 My commission as Notary Public expires 16 December 21, 1996. 17 Given under my hand this the__________day of 18 ______________________, 1994, at Louisville, Kentucky. 19 20 21 22 23 _____________________________ 24 NOTARY PUBLIC 25