434 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 FOR THE DISTRICT OF HAWAII 3 4 SUSAN K. FORSYTH, ) Civil No. 95-00185ACK Individually and as ) 5 Personal Representative ) of the Estates of June M. ) Pages 434 - 651 6 Forsyth and William D. ) Forsyth, and WILLIAM F. ) 7 FORSYTH, JR., ) ) 8 Plaintiffs, ) ) 9 vs. ) ) 10 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY, ) an Indiana corporation, ) 11 et al., ) ) 12 Defendants. ) __________________________) 13 14 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 15 The above-entitled matter came on for trial on 16 Tuesday, March 9, 1999 at 9:15 a.m. at Honolulu, 17 Hawaii. 18 BEFORE: THE HONORABLE ALAN C. KAY 19 United States District Judge District of Hawaii 20 21 REPORTED BY: TINA M. STUHR, RPR, CSR #360 Notary Public, State of Hawaii 22 PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. 23 733 Bishop Street Suite 2090, Makai Tower 24 Honolulu, Hawaii 96813 (808) 524-PRSU 25 PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 435 1 APPEARANCES: 2 For Plaintiffs: ANTHONY ANDERSON VICKERY, ESQ. Archer, Waldner & Vickery 3 2929 Allen Parkway Suite 2410 4 Houston, Texas 77019 5 KAREN BARTH, ESQ. Baum, Hedlund, Aristei, Guilford 6 & Downey 12100 Wilshire Boulevard 7 Suite 950 Los Angeles, California 90025 8 ROY K.S. CHANG, ESQ. 9 Shim & Chang 333 Queen Street 10 Suite 900 Honolulu, Hawaii 96813 11 For Defendant: ANDREW SEE, ESQ. 12 MICHELLE R. MANGRUM, ESQ. Shook, Hardy & Bacon L.L.P. 13 One Kansas City Place 1200 Main Street 14 Kansas City, Missouri 64105 15 EDMUND BURKE, ESQ. Burke Sakai McPheeters Bordner 16 Iwanaga & Estes 737 Bishop Street 17 Suite 3100 - Mauka Tower Honolulu, Hawaii 96813 18 Also Present: Catherine Itai 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 436 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESSES ON BEHALF OF PLAINTIFFS: PAGE 3 WILLIAM DAVID FORSYTH, III 4 Cross-Examination Continued by Mr. See 437 Redirect Examination by Mr. Vickery 493 5 EDWIN L. NELSON 6 Direct Examination by Mr. Vickery 520 7 Cross-Examination by Mr. Burke 525 8 DAVID CAPELOUTO 9 Direct Examination by Mr. Vickery 528 Cross-Examination by Mr. Burke 536 10 Redirect Examination by Mr. Vickery 547 11 WILLIAM KLEIN 12 Direct Examination by Mr. Vickery 548 Cross-Examination by Ms. Mangrum 558 13 Redirect Examination by Mr. Vickery 566 14 DAUBERT HEARING 15 CANDANCE PERT, Ph.D. 16 Direct Examination by Mr. Vickery 577 Cross-Examination by Mr. See 584 17 Redirect Examination by Mr. Vickery 591 18 DAVID HEALY, M.D., Ph.D. 19 Direct Examination by Mr. Vickery 601 Cross-Examination by Mr. See 617 20 EXHIBITS ADMITTED INTO EVIDENCE: PAGE 21 Exhibit 1035 - Calendar from Forsyths' 472 22 Home 23 Exhibit 1141 - Letter to Judy Hawkes 508 from June Forsyth dated January 6, 1993 24 Exhibit 167 - Videotape 513 25 Exhibit 168 - Photographs 513 PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 437 1 THE CLERK: Civil No. 95-00185 ACK, Susan K. 2 Forsyth, et al. versus Eli Lilly and Company, et al. 3 MR. VICKERY: Good morning, Your Honor. Andy 4 Vickery, Karen Barth, and Roy Chang for the Forsyths. 5 We're ready to continue with the trial. 6 THE COURT: Good morning. 7 MR. SEE: Good morning, Your Honor. Andy See, 8 Michelle Mangrum, and Edmund Burke for Eli Lilly and 9 Company, also ready. 10 THE COURT: Good morning. Good morning, ladies 11 and gentlemen of the jury. Please proceed. 12 Can we have a witness up here? 13 And you're reminded you're still under oath, 14 Mr. Forsyth. 15 MR. SEE: Your Honor, if I may approach and put 16 the witness' deposition up next to him? 17 THE COURT: You may. 18 CROSS-EXAMINATION (Continued) 19 BY MR. SEE: 20 Q. Mr. Forsyth, good morning. 21 A. Good morning. 22 Q. When we left court on Friday, as I was knocking 23 things down, I was about to ask you about some 24 writings of your mother's that is in evidence. Can 25 you see that, sir? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 438 1 A. Yes. I can't see the ones on the left. Oh, I 2 can see the blowup part. 3 Q. Yes, the blowup part is what I'm going to ask 4 you about. Now, these are in evidence as part of 5 Exhibit 172. And my question for you, Mr. Forsyth, is 6 when your mother wrote, "Never did or now wants to do 7 anything I suggest," Did you ever observe in your 8 contact with your parents that your father acted that 9 way towards your mother; that is, he never did or 10 wants to do anything that she suggested? 11 MR. VICKERY: Objection, Your Honor. My only 12 objection is unless these entries are limited in time, 13 there's no date on this particular page, so unless 14 Mr. See qualifies the timing of his question, it 15 doesn't put it in context. 16 THE COURT: Well, let's see if we can establish 17 a time. 18 Q (By Mr. See) Mr. Forsyth, do you know when 19 your mother's notes were written? 20 A. I do not. 21 MR. SEE: Your Honor, the exhibit is in 22 evidence as Mrs. Forsyth's notes. 23 THE COURT: Well, isn't there a time indicated? 24 MR. SEE: In this particular notebook, I'm not 25 certain that there is a particular time indicated. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 439 1 THE COURT: Well, we don't know if it is 1980 2 or 1990 or what? 3 MR. SEE: Well -- 4 THE COURT: You can't establish a range? 5 MR. SEE: Well, Your Honor, what I can 6 establish is if you look at -- if you look at the 7 very -- 8 THE COURT: I can't read that. 9 MR. SEE: Yes, sir, I beg your pardon. 10 THE COURT: That's 172? 11 MR. SEE: Yes, sir. 12 MR. VICKERY: I believe I can help you, Your 13 Honor. I think you will find these in the 1991 14 journal. 15 THE COURT: Well, why don't you help Mr. See? 16 MR. VICKERY: I've looked at all of Mr. See's 17 logs, Your Honor, and that's the reason I interrupted 18 him with this objection. I wanted that clear. 19 THE COURT: Are you willing to acknowledge it's 20 1991? 21 MR. SEE: Subject to me going back and actually 22 looking at it because I haven't seen the exact date, 23 the events that are described are the events that took 24 place when they lived in Maui. 25 THE COURT: So it would have to be 1990 or PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 440 1 later? 2 MR. SEE: Or later. 3 THE COURT: So let's proceed on that basis 4 then. 5 MR. SEE: Very well. 6 Q. If you recall, Mr. Forsyth, my question was, 7 during the time that your parents lived on Maui, did 8 you observe in their relationship that your father 9 never did or now wants to do anything that your mother 10 suggested? 11 A. No. I saw him do things she did want to do. 12 Q. Down about the middle of the page, your mother 13 has written, "When we go to any social events, the 14 minute we arrive, he disconnects and leaves me." Did 15 you observe that behavior in your parents 16 relationship? Again, during the time that they lived 17 on Maui. 18 A. I wasn't always present at social events where 19 they would attend, but where I would see them, like at 20 church or family barbecues or even group barbecues, I 21 didn't observe that. 22 Q. The next entry down your mother has written, 23 "Won't take walks with me on the beach and yet when 24 friends come to visit, he walks with them while I'm 25 cooking." Again, while your parents were living on PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 441 1 Maui, did you observe that aspect of your parents 2 relationship? 3 A. I observed them walk on the beach many times 4 with my own eyes, together. 5 Q. And the last entry on this blowup that your 6 mother has written, "He disconnects at church. He 7 doesn't want to stand with me or have me as part of 8 any discussions he's having with someone else. When I 9 talk, he glares at me or puts his hand up. He never 10 does this to anyone else." 11 Did you observe this kind of behavior in your 12 parents relationship during the time they lived on 13 Maui? 14 A. No, I didn't. 15 Q. And also as part of the same exhibit, another 16 blowup of your mother's notes. The first entry on 17 this one, your mother has written, "The last few years 18 any idea I have or suggestion I make, Bill says, no, 19 and leaves. He won't even discuss things." Did you 20 observe that aspect in your parents relationship 21 during the time that they lived on Maui? 22 A. I didn't observe that. 23 Q. During the time that your parents lived on 24 Maui, Mr. Forsyth, did you observe that your mother's 25 role as the wife, in the husband-wife relationship, PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 442 1 was changing? 2 A. Well, they lived in the Mainland for so many 3 years while I was on Maui, I didn't know their role 4 other than when I was younger living at home. 5 Q. During the time that your parents were on Maui, 6 did you observe your mother change her role from being 7 a more traditional wife, letting the husband make all 8 the decisions, to becoming a more assertive, 9 aggressive person herself? 10 A. I did not notice that. 11 Q. And again, during the time that your parents 12 were on Maui, did you ever observe them have any 13 conflict over your mother's role in the marriage 14 changing; that is, her becoming a more assertive 15 person, wanting to make decisions herself and so on? 16 A. I didn't observe a conflict like that. 17 Q. Now, you were aware that your parents separated 18 for a time in 1991? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Your father travelled to the Mainland leaving 21 your mother on Maui? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And during that time, you had a chance to talk 24 with your dad on the phone about what was going on in 25 their lives? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 443 1 A. I did. 2 Q. And did he tell you that since his retirement, 3 he had had a problem being at home, and in particular, 4 with his communication with your mother? 5 A. I can't remember exactly what he told me, but 6 he said something like it was harder to communicate. 7 Q. And did he tell you that one of the reasons 8 that was was because he and your mother were now 9 spending a lot more time actually together because he 10 was retired and not working? 11 A. I don't remember him giving that as a reason. 12 Q. Now, your father eventually came back from the 13 Mainland and your parents reconciled after that 14 separation in 1991? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Now, moving ahead up to 1992. Your parents 17 again separated for a time during the summer and fall 18 of that year; isn't that right, sir? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And when your father -- again, your father left 21 Maui and travelled to the Mainland leaving your mother 22 and the family home? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. Now, when your father left to go to Los Angeles 25 in 1992, did he tell you he was leaving? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 444 1 A. I can't recall if he did. 2 Q. Would you look at Page 42 of the big volume of 3 your deposition? 4 MR. VICKERY: Which page is that, Counsel? 5 MR. SEE: Page 42, I'm sorry. It's in the 6 first deposition. 7 Q. Do you have 42 there? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Now, I'm going to start at Line 3 and ask if 10 these were questions and answers that took place 11 during your deposition. 12 "QUESTION: You knew your dad was going to Los 13 Angeles? 14 "ANSWER: No. 15 "QUESTION: You didn't? Where did you think he 16 was going? 17 "ANSWER: I didn't know he was going anywhere. 18 "QUESTION: So during the summer of 1992 when 19 your father came to Los Angeles, he did not tell you 20 that he was doing that? 21 "ANSWER: No, he didn't." 22 Were those the questions and answers that -- 23 MR. VICKERY: Excuse me, Mr. See. Your Honor, 24 under Rule 106, I would ask for completeness and 25 fairness that the following, the next question and PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 445 1 answer be read. 2 THE COURT: Very well. 3 Q (By Mr. See) "QUESTION: So the fact that 4 your father had gone to live for a time in Los Angeles 5 came as a surprise to you? 6 "ANSWER: Not really. He went to Los Angeles 7 fairly regularly." 8 Were those the questions and answers at your 9 deposition? 10 A. I haven't read my deposition since it happened 11 over three years ago, but I believe that would be 12 true. 13 Q. Now, the point is, and this is what I want to 14 ask you, at the time your father again left your 15 mother, they separated in 1992, your father didn't 16 tell you that he was separating from your mother and 17 going to live separately in Los Angeles; isn't that 18 right? 19 A. I can't remember. I did have talks with my dad 20 after he came back the first time to see how things 21 were going. So, I honestly can't remember. 22 Q. Now, at the time, this is the summer of '92, 23 the time your father separated from your mother again, 24 you had thought your parents were getting along pretty 25 well? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 446 1 A. I thought they were from what I can remember at 2 this time. 3 Q. In the three or four years prior to that 4 separation in 1992, it was also your impression that 5 your parents were getting along pretty well in their 6 marital relationship; isn't that right? 7 A. Are you talking about when they lived on Maui 8 or on the Mainland? 9 Q. Well, I'm talking about in the three or four 10 years prior to 1992, so that would include, maybe, a 11 couple years on the Mainland and a couple years on 12 Maui. 13 A. To the best of my knowledge things were going 14 okay, although the retirement, you know, changes 15 things a little bit. 16 Q. Had you been aware at all that during the time 17 your father and mother lived on Maui and during the 18 two separations, that your father was considering 19 divorcing your mother? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Your mother, especially in the last several 22 years of her life, was a very devout born-again 23 Christian; isn't that right, sir? 24 A. Yes, that's correct. 25 Q. She was a member of and attended the same PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 447 1 church that you did? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And that's the Kumalani Chapel on Maui? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. In your mother's religious life, she made a 6 practice of reading Christian books and listening to 7 Christian radio and watching Christian videotapes and 8 that sort of thing. Did you observe that around their 9 house? 10 A. I hope she did. I wasn't over there all the 11 time, but I believe she would be involved because she 12 took her faith very seriously. 13 Q. In fact, her strong and sincere religious 14 belief was a very important part of her life? 15 A. Yes, it was very important. 16 Q. Now, isn't it the case that during the year or 17 so, year or two before his death, that your father was 18 uncomfortable with the extent of your mother's 19 religious activity? 20 A. My father was a regular involved church 21 attender with the whole family, so I don't know why he 22 would be uncomfortable. And I didn't notice him being 23 uncomfortable. 24 Q. Could I ask you to turn to Page 60 of the first 25 volume of your deposition? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 448 1 A. Is that the big one? 2 Q. Yes, sir, it is. And I want to ask you 3 starting at Line 19 on Page 60, if you have it there, 4 were these questions asked and did you give these 5 answers: 6 "QUESTION: Did your father ever make any 7 comments to you that he thought your mother was too 8 involved in church and religious activities? 9 "ANSWER: Yes. 10 "QUESTION: What did he say about that? 11 "ANSWER: Sometimes it made him uncomfortable 12 because she may be listening to a Christian tape or 13 watching a Christian show on TV and that was more than 14 he was used to, the amount. You know, he would go to 15 the church, to the men's -- the Christian 16 businessmen's breakfast with me, but I think her 17 involvement was more than his, so it wasn't always 18 comfortable for him. 19 "QUESTION: Your testimony is that the amount 20 of religious activity was more than he would have 21 preferred? 22 "ANSWER: The amount for her was more than the 23 amount he showed." 24 Were those questions and answers that you gave 25 at your deposition, sir? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 449 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Mr. Forsyth, did you have discussions yourself 3 with your father about him becoming more involved in 4 the Christian-oriented lifestyle that your mother was 5 following? 6 A. I think we talked about our faiths and our 7 involvement with God. 8 Q. And you shared your faith, your own faith with 9 your father? 10 A. He knew about my faith for many years. 11 Q. And did you also observe that your mother had 12 conversations with your father about him being more 13 accepting of the Christian lifestyle? 14 A. I don't know if -- I don't know. I don't 15 remember observing a particular discussion about that 16 topic. 17 Q. Now, wasn't it the case, sir, that your father 18 was resistant to changing his attitude about being 19 completely involved in the born-again Christian 20 lifestyle? 21 A. I think he was involved as he felt comfortable. 22 He seemed pretty involved to me. 23 Q. Let me ask you to turn to the smaller volume of 24 your deposition, the second volume, Page 86. 25 A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the page. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 450 1 Q. Page 86. If I could start and I'll refer you 2 to Line 1 of Page 86 and ask if these questions and 3 answers were given: 4 "QUESTION: In your father's records with 5 Dr. Roberts, there is some mention that your father, 6 at some point in his life, felt uncomfortable about 7 the level of religious belief and activity of the rest 8 of the family; that is, those apart from himself, and 9 what I'm trying to figure out is, did your family, 10 that is, you, your mother, did you talk with your dad 11 to kind of try to bring him around to the way you all 12 believed that you knew to be the truth? 13 "ANSWER: I think he felt uncomfortable because 14 we were living that and it was a big part of our life, 15 and I guess -- I believe his discomfort was that he 16 realized he could either move in that direction and 17 possibly find the peace there that he eventually did, 18 but that it was a resistance thing. 19 I think the discomfort was more of his 20 resistance than anybody pushing anything on him and 21 that's evidenced by the things he said after his 22 experience of his own." 23 Was that question asked and did you give that 24 answer? 25 A. Yes. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 451 1 Q. Mr. Forsyth, do you know whether your father 2 had made it a condition of his returning to Maui from 3 Los Angeles after the separation in '92, that he and 4 your mother agree not to be so involved in the church? 5 A. I don't know about that, if it happened. 6 Q. Now, Mr. Forsyth, you came to know at some 7 point that your father had had a problem with 8 alcoholism earlier on in his life? 9 A. Yes, as a child. 10 Q. But he had given it up and, in fact, had not 11 had a drink for more than 25 years? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Now, I want to refer you specifically to the 14 time after your father came back to Maui from the 15 Mainland in 1992. You knew your father was having a 16 problem suffering with anxiety, correct, at that time? 17 A. I don't think I knew at that time. I'm not 18 sure of the time line. 19 Q. You came to know that he was having a problem 20 with anxiety? 21 A. I'm not sure, you know, if that was the word I 22 knew about or -- I don't really remember. 23 Q. The question I'm getting at is, did you have 24 conversations with your father about the fact that he 25 was suffering from anxiety and had gone to one of his PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 452 1 doctors on the Mainland and gotten a prescription for 2 a drug called Xanax? 3 A. I did learn about that eventually. 4 Q. And did your dad tell you that he was somewhat 5 of an anxious person? 6 A. I think we talked about that, yes. 7 Q. And did he also tell you that in his 8 retirement, he related his not working and not having 9 anything to do with becoming more anxious? 10 A. He just -- I don't know if he was more anxious. 11 He just liked to be busy. 12 Q. Now, you did learn that your father was 13 prescribed a tranquilizer called Xanax to help him 14 with his anxiety? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. But your father learned that Xanax could be a 17 habit-forming drug; isn't that right? 18 A. He did, at some point, tell me that. 19 Q. And that was after he came back to Maui from 20 the Mainland in December of '92? 21 A. That was right before he went in the hospital. 22 Q. And his worry was that he might become 23 dependent on Xanax, isn't that right, based upon what 24 he told you? 25 A. He just didn't want to rely on drugs if he PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 453 1 didn't have to. 2 Q. And you talked to him, didn't you, about the 3 fact that he had this history of having been an 4 alcoholic, and he was particularly concerned not to 5 become dependent upon Xanax? 6 A. I can't recall if we had that conversation. 7 Q. Well, your father did tell you that he was 8 worried about taking Xanax? 9 A. He told me he would like to get off all of 10 these medications, if possible, as soon as possible. 11 Q. My specific question is, did your father tell 12 you that he was specifically concerned about taking 13 Xanax because it could be habit forming and he just 14 didn't want to become dependent or addicted to Xanax? 15 A. I think around the time he asked me to submit 16 him to the hospital we had a discussion about that. I 17 think part of the reason he wanted to be in the 18 hospital was to try to not be on that drug. 19 Q. Now, I want to ask you some questions about 20 your father's condition and what you noticed about 21 your father from the time he came back to Maui in 22 December of 1992 up through February 22nd of '93. 23 That's the first day that he was prescribed Prozac. 24 So that's the period I have in mind. Will you focus 25 on that period for these questions? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 454 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Now, after he came back to Maui and during the 3 January and early February '93 period, you did notice 4 that your father was depressed; that is, he had a low 5 mood, he was sad? 6 A. I noticed he wasn't as active as he used to be. 7 Q. Did you notice that your father, during the 8 same time period, became withdrawn; that is, he 9 stopped being his usual outgoing self and stayed at 10 home? 11 A. He was less outgoing, but I still saw him out 12 taking walks. You know, he wasn't at home under the 13 covers in bed or anything. 14 Q. Well, let me ask you that specifically. Did 15 you know that your father, in fact, did stay at home 16 in bed with the covers pulled up even during the 17 daytime? Again, during the January and early 18 February '93 time period. 19 A. On my visits to their home, I never witnessed 20 my dad in the daytime in bed under the covers. 21 Q. Again, during the January to early February '93 22 time period, did you note that your father seemed to 23 be struggling mentally; that is, struggling with his 24 thinking? 25 A. He just didn't seem as outgoing or energetic as PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 455 1 he normally was. 2 Q. Could I ask you to refer to the big volume of 3 your deposition at Page 183? Do you have that page? 4 A. 182? 5 Q. No, 183, I'm sorry. I'm going to start at Line 6 17, and I'm going to ask if this question was asked 7 and you gave this answer: 8 "QUESTION: What part of that paragraph applied 9 to your father prior to February 22, 1993? 10 "ANSWER: Mentally he was struggling prior to 11 February 22." 12 Was that the answer you gave to that question? 13 A. I believe it is. 14 Q. Now, I want to specifically ask you the 15 question, even starting at Christmastime of 1992 and 16 continuing on through January and through February, 17 your dad started to have a depressed mood; that is, he 18 acted sad and he acted down; isn't that right? 19 A. At Christmastime, we had a great family time 20 together, but he wasn't quite as excited or jumping 21 around with the kids. So I noticed, you know, he just 22 wasn't the energetic, quite as outgoing person. 23 Q. So you didn't notice any depression or 24 depressed mood or that he was sad or blue at 25 Christmastime of '92? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 456 1 A. Well, I noticed that he wasn't his usual up 2 person, so there was a lowering, yes. It didn't alarm 3 me because he was there and he was with the family and 4 we still had a great time, but looking back and 5 remembering so many Christmassy together, he wasn't 6 quite as up. 7 Q. Let me ask you to turn to your deposition, the 8 big one, on Page 71. 9 A. Seventy-one of the big one? 10 Q. Yeah, the big one. 71, please. 11 THE COURT: Which one is this now? 12 MR. SEE: It's the first volume, Your Honor. 13 THE COURT: The thick or the thin? 14 MR. SEE: The thick, I beg your pardon. 15 Q. On Page 71 at Line 9, was this the question and 16 answer: 17 "QUESTION: Before February 22 of 1992, did you 18 observe your father to have a depressed mood; that is, 19 was he blue, sad, that sort of thing? 20 "ANSWER: Yes." 21 Did you give that answer to that question? 22 A. Yes, I did. 23 Q. Now, what I want to ask you now, Mr. Forsyth, 24 is, this depressed mood in your father starting around 25 Christmastime of 1992, that was very different from PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 457 1 his normal personality, wasn't it? 2 A. It wasn't alarmingly different for me. I mean, 3 I noticed it, but it wasn't something that scared me 4 at the time. 5 Q. Could I ask you to turn back to the big volume 6 again. Again, on Page 71. I beg your pardon, it's 72 7 right at the top on Line 1. 8 MR. VICKERY: Your Honor, under the rule of 9 fairness and completeness, I would ask that the 10 question and answer immediately before that be offered 11 at the same time. 12 THE COURT: Very well. 13 Q (By Mr. See) Okay. Now we're at Page 71 at 14 Line 21, Mr. Forsyth. Do you have that? 15 A. Yes, I do. 16 Q. Okay. That question is this: 17 "During that time, Christmas '92 up to 18 February 22nd of '93, did that depressed mood seem to 19 get worse in your dad? 20 "ANSWER: I didn't notice personally a huge 21 change. I was just surprised at him being depressed 22 at all. It was so out of character. 23 "QUESTION: The depressed mood that you 24 observed was very different than your father's normal 25 personality? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 458 1 "ANSWER: Yes." 2 Were those questions asked and did you give 3 that answer? 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 Q. Now, again, beginning at Christmas of '92 and 6 going on into January of '93, did you also notice that 7 your father became withdrawn; that is, he stayed at 8 home, did not go out with people and mix like he used 9 to? 10 A. I noticed he mixed a little bit less. He 11 wasn't at my house as often, although he would visit. 12 It wasn't as regular. 13 Q. And, again, during the same time period from 14 Christmas of '92 into January of '93, did you notice 15 that your father was simply not the confident person 16 that he used to be? 17 A. He was a lot quieter. I don't know about 18 confidence. I don't recall. I noticed that 19 definitely near the end, during the hospital 20 submitting time. 21 Q. Let me refer you to Page 76 of the big volume 22 of your deposition. At Line 19 -- I'm sorry, Line 16. 23 And let me ask you if you got this question and gave 24 this answer -- 25 MR. VICKERY: Excuse me, Mr. See. Again, Your PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 459 1 Honor, for completeness and fairness, I'd ask the 2 question before it -- the one question immediately 3 before it be asked. 4 MR. SEE: That will be fine, Judge. 5 Q. Starting then at Line 8, Mr. Forsyth: 6 "QUESTION: From Christmas of '92 to 7 February 22 of '93, looking at your father's overall 8 condition, everything taken into account, was his 9 condition going downhill during that time period or 10 was it staying about the same? 11 "ANSWER: I did not notice any major change in 12 that time period described up or down. All I noticed 13 was that my dad was not himself, as we discussed, 14 quiet. Not as visible as he usually was. 15 "QUESTION: During that time period that we're 16 talking about, did you observe your father to have a 17 lack of confidence? 18 "ANSWER: I did not observe that. 19 "QUESTION: Did you hear that from any source? 20 "ANSWER: No. When I say I didn't observe it, 21 what I'm saying, again, is I didn't talk or spend that 22 much time with him, therefore, there was no experience 23 to get that from. I obviously -- he was not the 24 confident person that he was, that was driving around, 25 visiting friends, going to Rotary. I don't think he PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 460 1 made every meeting." 2 Were you asked those questions and gave those 3 answers? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Now, again, Mr. Forsyth, talking about the same 6 time period from about Christmas of '92 into January 7 of '93 and early February, you learned that your 8 father was having feelings of low self-worth; isn't 9 that so? 10 A. I don't remember. 11 Q. Let me refer you to Page 73 of the big volume 12 of your deposition at Line 12. Do you have that, sir? 13 A. Page 73? 14 Q. Yes, sir. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. At Line 12 were these questions asked and did 17 you give these answers: 18 "QUESTION: Again, during the period up to 19 February 22, 1992, did you ever learn that your father 20 had feelings of low self-worth? 21 "ANSWER: Prior to February 22nd? 22 "QUESTION: Yes. 23 "ANSWER: Between Christmas of '92 and 24 February 22 of '93 I did hear my father say that he 25 had feelings of low self-worth." PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 461 1 Did you -- 2 MR. VICKERY: Excuse me, Mr. See. I'm sorry, 3 Your Honor, the very next question puts that in 4 context. 5 MR. SEE: I'll be happy to read it, Your Honor. 6 THE COURT: Very well. 7 Q (By Mr. See) And then was this question asked 8 and did you give this answer: 9 "QUESTION: What were the circumstances of him 10 saying that? 11 "ANSWER: I may not -- he may not have told me 12 directly, but I -- from memory, I believe my mom who 13 was spending the most time with him during that period 14 relayed to the family that while he was in the 15 depression that he felt lower self-esteem than he felt 16 in his life before. I cannot recall him directly 17 telling me that." 18 Were you asked those questions and did you give 19 those answers? 20 A. Yes, I did. 21 Q. And again, during the -- from Christmas of '92 22 into January and early February of '93, did you have 23 conversations with your father when the subject of his 24 feeling guilt came up? 25 A. I don't know. I can't remember. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 462 1 Q. Let me refer you to Page 79 of the large volume 2 of your deposition at Line 18. 3 THE COURT: I'm sorry, what page was that? 4 MR. SEE: Page 79. 5 Q. Do you have it, Mr. Forsyth? 6 A. Page 79? 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. Yes, I do. 9 Q. At Line 18 were you asked this question and 10 gave this answer: 11 "QUESTION: This is a conversation that took 12 place between Christmas '92 and February 22, '93? 13 "ANSWER: Yes. 14 "QUESTION: And your father said to you, 'When 15 you are depressed, you have feelings come up of 16 guilt'? 17 "ANSWER: Yes. 18 "QUESTION: And he was having feelings of that? 19 "ANSWER: Yes." 20 Did you give answers to those questions? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. And again, during the same time period, your 23 father told you how dark and down you feel when you 24 are in a depression; isn't that right? 25 A. I don't remember that discussion either. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 463 1 Q. If you could go back to Page 80 of the same big 2 volume of your deposition. Starting at Line 1. 3 "QUESTION: What else did your father tell you 4 in that conversation about how it feels to be 5 depressed? 6 "ANSWER: Just how dark and down you are." 7 Did you give that answer, sir? 8 A. Yes. 9 MR. VICKERY: Excuse me, Mr. See. Again, Your 10 Honor, I must ask that it be put in context. It goes 11 down through Line 15, that section. 12 THE COURT: Very well. 13 Q (By Mr. See) The next question is at Line 4: 14 "Did he tell you that he was dark and down? 15 "ANSWER: He felt dark and down at times, not 16 continually, but he would have those times." 17 MR. SEE: The rest that Mr. Vickery refers to 18 does not refer to that subject, Your Honor. 19 THE COURT: Mr. Vickery. 20 MR. VICKERY: Your Honor, I think it's a 21 natural follow along. It was the question Mr. See 22 asked him immediately as a follow-up to that, the next 23 two questions and answers, and I think they germane -- 24 THE COURT: I think you should ask it, Mr. See. 25 MR. SEE: Very good. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 464 1 Q. And the next question is, Mr. Forsyth, this is 2 at Line 11: 3 "Did he, during the same time frame, say 4 anything to you about thinking about death? 5 "ANSWER: No. 6 "QUESTION: Or thinking about the subject of 7 suicide? 8 "ANSWER: Never." 9 Did you have those questions asked and give 10 those answers? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Again, talking about the same time period, 13 Christmas '92 through January and early February of 14 '93, did you notice that your father was tired all the 15 time? 16 A. Not all the time, just less -- just less 17 active, as I said before. 18 THE COURT: I think he's already testified to 19 that, hasn't he? 20 MR. SEE: All right. 21 Q. Did you also notice during the same time period 22 that your father had lost his motivation to get out 23 and do things? 24 A. He was out just not as much as he was before. 25 Q. And during the time that we're talking about, PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 465 1 Christmas '92 through January and early February, did 2 you note your father to be having despairing feelings; 3 that is, feelings of despair? 4 A. I didn't see him as much, so I didn't notice 5 those that he may have had. I don't know. 6 Q. Let me refer you to Page 180 of the large 7 volume of your deposition at Line 19. The question is 8 and did you get these questions and give these 9 answers: 10 "QUESTION: The fifth paragraph on the first 11 page of Susan Forsyth's Deposition Exhibit No. 2, 12 relates that your father became tired, unmotivated, 13 and had despairing feelings. That's a part of a 14 letter that you co-authored with your sister? 15 "ANSWER: Correct. Yes. 16 "QUESTION: And did that description apply to 17 your father prior to the time he was taking Prozac? 18 "ANSWER: Yes." 19 Did you get those questions and give those 20 answers? 21 A. Yes, I did. 22 Q. Mr. Forsyth, as time wore on in January of '93 23 into February of '93, did you know that your father 24 began to feel that he could not stay at home by 25 himself? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 466 1 A. I don't know if he felt that way. 2 Q. Now, let's move to the middle of February and 3 specifically -- well, around the middle of February. 4 Do you recall an episode that you had with your father 5 that occurred outside of his home around the middle of 6 February when you were there looking at a power mower? 7 A. Not -- I don't remember exactly what. I was 8 over there a lot. I mowed some of the lots nearby for 9 them. 10 Q. In around the middle of February did you see -- 11 while you were over at your parents' home, did you 12 notice your father back his car down the driveway at 13 his home, stopped, got out of his car, and came over 14 to you. Do you recall that incident? 15 A. I remember a discussion of some kind in the 16 front of his house. 17 Q. And he came up to you and he did not appear as 18 if he were like his normal self; isn't that right? 19 A. I remember I felt -- I remember I felt 20 something, why did he stop and get out of the car. 21 Q. And you said to him, "How are you doing?" And 22 he didn't answer you. He just stood there and was 23 quiet. 24 A. That part I don't remember. 25 Q. Could I refer you to Page 65 of the big volume PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 467 1 of your deposition on Line 11? Was this question 2 asked and did you give this answer: 3 "QUESTION: What happened then? 4 "ANSWER: He walked over to me at the lawn 5 mower I was working on and he wasn't -- he was fairly 6 quiet, not like, hey, good morning, how you doing? 7 Not like his normal self. And I said, 'How are you?' 8 And he was quiet, and the things I noticed most in 9 comparison to the later incident was his face, that he 10 realized something. He looked concerned when I asked 11 him how he was doing and there wasn't much 12 conversation. I just, at that time, felt concerned 13 for my dad." 14 Did you give that answer to that question? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Do you recall this incident now, Mr. Forsyth, 17 as we've gone over it a little bit? 18 A. More so, yeah. On Line 15 I said, "How are you 19 doing?" You said just, "How are you?" 20 Q. So you said to him, "How are you doing?" And 21 he just stood there quiet? 22 A. That's my testimony here. It's been a while. 23 Q. And then you asked him again, "How are you?" 24 And your dad responded to you, "I'm not sure." Do you 25 recall that happening? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 468 1 A. I don't remember that now. 2 Q. All right. Well, let me ask you to refer to 3 Line 21 on Page 65 of the large volume of your 4 deposition. 5 "QUESTION: What did your dad say? 6 "ANSWER: I said, 'How are you doing?' And he 7 may have said something like, 'I'm not sure,' which 8 was not an answer I was comfortable with. I realized 9 that he didn't quite know how he was doing and that 10 concerned me because he always was an in-charge kind 11 of guy. At which time I said that I wanted to talk to 12 him about what he might want to do, what was his next 13 step to try to get better, to feel better." 14 Did you give that answer in response to the 15 question? 16 MR. VICKERY: Excuse me, Mr. See. Again, Your 17 Honor, I object unless the following question and 18 answer are read to put it in context. 19 MR. SEE: That will be just fine, Your Honor. 20 THE COURT: Very well. 21 Q (By Mr. See) On Line 4 on Page 66, the next 22 question is: 23 "What did he say? 24 "ANSWER: As I remember, he didn't respond, 25 which concerned me. That was about it. I left, and a PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 469 1 couple of hours later I called my wife from the boat 2 to say hi, at which time she told me that my dad had 3 called and said for her to tell me not to worry that 4 he felt much better. Everything is going to be okay 5 and not to worry about our meeting in the morning." 6 Did you give that answer? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Now, let me ask you about another incident with 9 your father. Do you remember, Mr. Forsyth, a time 10 when you and your father were driving in your car to 11 your daughter's swim meet? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And this was about the same time as the 14 incident outside of your parents' home that we just 15 talked about; isn't that right? 16 A. I don't know when it was as far as dates. 17 Q. Well, the incident where you and your father 18 were on your way to the swim meet was about two weeks 19 before he was admitted to Castle Hospital; isn't that 20 right, sir? 21 A. I can't remember. That was six years ago. 22 Q. If I could ask you to look at the thin volume 23 of your deposition at Page 78. I beg your pardon, 24 it's 77, the last line, Line 25. The question is: 25 "Well, you have in mind February the 24th of PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 470 1 1993, that being the day you took your father to 2 Castle Medical Center? 3 "ANSWER: Right. 4 "QUESTION: How would you place the event in 5 relation to that day? 6 "ANSWER: About two weeks before that I would 7 say. 8 Did you give those answers to those questions? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Now, you were driving with your father on the 11 way to your daughter's swim meet, and I believe that 12 was going to be in Wailuku? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And all of a sudden your father turned to you 15 and said, "Can we turn here? I want to go to 16 Dr. Roberts' office." Isn't that right? 17 A. That's right. 18 Q. It was not in your plans that day to go to his 19 psychiatrist's office, was it? 20 A. It wasn't in my plan. 21 Q. And he had no appointment with his psychiatrist 22 for that day, did he? 23 A. None that I was aware of. 24 Q. In fact, it was on a Saturday, wasn't it? 25 A. Yes. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 471 1 Q. And when you did make a turn and drive to the 2 office of Dr. Roberts, his psychiatrist, but found 3 that because it was Saturday, the office was closed 4 and nobody was there, correct? 5 A. That's right. 6 Q. From your observation of what your father said 7 and his demeanor, he wanted to see his psychiatrist 8 right then, didn't he? 9 A. He did. 10 Q. And, in fact, your father looked panicky at 11 that time, didn't he? 12 A. I don't know if he looked panicky. He just 13 wanted to see and find the doctor. It was only a 14 block out of the way. 15 Q. So as you sat in your automobile in front of 16 Dr. Roberts' office on Saturday, you couldn't go in 17 and see the doctor, right? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. Whatever it was that was bothering your father 20 passed; isn't that right? 21 A. Well, we ended up leaving. I mean, to me he 22 was satisfied. He wasn't there, so we had no other 23 option. 24 Q. And so you went on to the swim meet? 25 A. We did. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 472 1 Q. And your dad seemed okay at the swim meet, 2 didn't he? 3 A. He had a great time. 4 Q. Mr. Forsyth, did you know that -- I'm now 5 coming up to February 22nd of 1993. Did you know that 6 your father went to see his psychiatrist, Dr. Roberts, 7 on that day? 8 A. I did hear that later as far as the date, yes. 9 MR. SEE: Your Honor, at this time we would 10 offer Exhibit 1035. 11 MR. VICKERY: Yes. No objection at all. 12 THE COURT: That exhibit is admitted. 13 MR. SEE: If I may approach and show it to the 14 witness, Your Honor? 15 THE COURT: You may. 16 Q (By Mr. See) Mr. Forsyth, we now have in 17 evidence Exhibit 1035. Do you recognize that as the 18 calendar from your parents' home? 19 A. It looks like it would be, yes. 20 Q. And I specifically want to refer you to the 21 date February 22nd of 1993. Do you see that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. And written there on February 22, 1993, is the 24 word Roberts, correct? 25 A. Correct. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 473 1 Q. And below that is written 4:00 p.m., correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Now, your dad's visit to Dr. Roberts on 4 February 22nd, you understand that is the visit when 5 Dr. Roberts first prescribed Prozac for him? 6 A. That's my understanding. 7 Q. In fact, your parents talked with you about 8 that visit and about your dad getting a new medication 9 after that visit; isn't that right? 10 A. I don't remember if they told me he got a new 11 medication. 12 Q. Isn't it correct that your mother told you that 13 your dad had gotten a new medication and they were 14 very hopeful about it? 15 A. She might have. I honestly don't remember. 16 Q. Could I ask you to -- refer you to Page 81 of 17 the large volume of your deposition. On Page 81 it's 18 on Line 14. Did you hear this question and give this 19 answer: 20 "QUESTION: All right. And what did you learn? 21 "ANSWER: I remember that my mom told us that 22 they were going to try a new medication for my dad, 23 and from what they were told, it could help and they 24 were hopeful and I can't honestly remember if I was 25 given the name of the medication at that time." PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 474 1 Did you give that answer, sir? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. So to the best of your knowledge and your 4 understanding February 22nd of 1993, was the first day 5 that your father ever took Prozac? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And so the next day, February 23rd would have 8 been the second day that he took Prozac? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Now, your father came over to your home and 11 visited on February 23rd; isn't that right? 12 A. I think he did. 13 Q. I'm just going to put this up and draw the 14 dates so we can keep them clear. 15 It was February the 22nd that your father first 16 got Prozac from Dr. Roberts, that's your 17 understanding? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And at least, as is indicated in the calendar, 20 that appointment with Dr. Roberts was at 4:00 p.m.? 21 A. Right, that's what the calendar says. 22 Q. Then your father came to visit you the next day 23 at your home? 24 A. Yeah, I remember talking to him. I think he 25 came to my home. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 475 1 Q. Now, during that visit of your father's to your 2 home on February the 23rd, your father appeared to 3 have returned to his normal personality and had the 4 energy that he always had; isn't that right? 5 A. He seemed pretty good. 6 Q. In fact, on that day, February 23rd, he 7 resembled more of the person he was before he got 8 depressed; isn't that right? 9 A. He seemed more energetic and outgoing. 10 Q. And even he said he felt better, he had more 11 energy; isn't that right? 12 A. Yeah, I think he did. 13 Q. Now, during this February 23rd visit to your 14 home, your father was not behaving in a bizarre 15 fashion, was he? 16 A. I don't remember that he did. 17 Q. He didn't exhibit any outrageous or outlandish 18 behavior? 19 A. Nothing that I can recall. 20 Q. Mr. Forsyth, were you aware that on 21 February 22nd, in the morning before he got Prozac, 22 that your father had called his physician in Los 23 Angeles and told that doctor that he felt like he 24 needed to be in a hospital? 25 A. My dad never told me that. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 476 1 Q. So you didn't learn that from anybody? 2 A. I've heard it since. 3 Q. But at the time, your father hadn't told you? 4 A. Oh, no, I didn't know anything about it. 5 Q. Now, on February 24th, you went and visited 6 your parents in their home; isn't that right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And, of course, saw your father? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And this was the time, February 24th, when you 11 placed a call to Dr. Roberts and indicated that your 12 father felt that he wanted to go to the hospital, 13 correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Now, before you placed that call, as you were 16 with your father and observing him, you saw that he 17 was in a very panicky state; isn't that right? 18 A. He wanted to go to the hospital very badly. 19 Q. Well, in fact, didn't you observe your father 20 on February the 24th having what you would call a 21 panic attack before you made the call to Dr. Roberts 22 so you could go to the hospital? 23 A. He just asked me repeatedly if he would try to 24 get me over there. That's why he had me call 25 Dr. Roberts. I never talked to Dr. Roberts prior to PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 477 1 that. 2 Q. Could I refer you to the large volume of your 3 deposition on Page 51 at Line 21? Are you there? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Were you asked this question and gave this 6 answer: 7 "QUESTION: There's a reference in some of your 8 father's medical records about him having panic 9 attacks. Did you ever observe your father having a 10 panic attack? 11 "ANSWER: No. Well, yes, I would say I 12 observed him have a panic attack when he asked me to 13 call Dr. Riggs to tell him that he wanted to go to the 14 hospital. 15 "QUESTION: Okay. You said Dr. Riggs, is that 16 Dr. Riggs Roberts? 17 "ANSWER: Riggs Roberts. 18 "QUESTION: Was that on February 24, 1993? 19 "ANSWER: I believe that was the day we took 20 him, yeah, the same day that we took him to the 21 hospital." 22 Did you give those answers to those questions? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So as you testified in your deposition, you 25 observed your father on February the 24th have PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 478 1 something that you called a panic attack, right? 2 A. He had to get to the hospital. 3 Q. And he wanted to go right now? 4 A. Right then. 5 Q. Now, at that time your father told you that he 6 was afraid, didn't he? 7 A. He was afraid to sleep in the house another 8 night. 9 Q. And he looked to you like he was afraid? 10 A. He did. He looked like a man I have never seen 11 before. 12 Q. Now, you made the call to Dr. Roberts and 13 arrangements were made that you would go to or come to 14 Oahu and be able to admit your father at the Castle 15 Medical Center, right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And you were going to fly over here from Maui 18 with your mom and dad, correct? 19 A. I did. 20 Q. And you all took a taxi to the airport on Maui? 21 A. On Maui, no. We took a taxi here to the 22 hospital. 23 Q. Now, what I want to ask you is after the 24 arrangements had been made for your father to come 25 over here to Oahu to be admitted to Castle, on the PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 479 1 way; that is, on the airplane, in the taxicab, I want 2 to ask you about what your father looked like. Is it 3 correct that during that time your father was quiet? 4 A. Yes. Um-hum. 5 Q. And during the time; that is, the trip over in 6 the cab, in the plane to the hospital, your father was 7 calm? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. He wasn't jumping around? 10 A. He was seated. We talked, but he was pretty 11 quiet. 12 Q. And then you stayed with him after he first got 13 to Castle during the sort of preliminary admission 14 procedures? 15 A. I was there as well as my mother. 16 Q. And during the time that he was talking to the 17 admission people and answering questions and so on, 18 this is now getting into the evening of the 24th, 19 right? 20 A. Yes, it was evening. 21 Q. And now I want to ask you about what your 22 father looked like and how he behaved at that time. 23 He was fairly calm? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Fairly quiet? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 480 1 A. He just answered the questions. 2 Q. And again, he wasn't jumping around or running 3 around? 4 A. No. 5 Q. When he talked, he made sense? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. He wasn't out of his head? 8 A. He just answered the questions that they asked 9 him. 10 Q. So now on the trip over and then into the 11 evening, as you've stated, your father was quiet and 12 calm and not jumping around, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. So then your father was admitted to Castle, 15 right? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Is it true, Mr. Forsyth, that at the time your 18 father actually got admitted to the hospital, he felt 19 better and said that he wished he hadn't over-reacted? 20 A. Yeah, I think he didn't really want to be in a 21 hospital that bad. 22 THE COURT: It's after 10:30. Let's take a 23 15-minute break. Please be back at ten of. I want to 24 meet with counsel a minute, so we'll excuse the jury. 25 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 481 1 in open court out of the presence of the jury.) 2 THE COURT: You may step down. I noticed that 3 Juror No. 3, the one with the memory problem, that you 4 both wanted to keep on because he could take notes is 5 not taking notes. You want him to be instructed to 6 take notes? 7 MR. VICKERY: Probably a good idea, Your Honor, 8 given what he said. 9 MR. SEE: Perhaps a general instruction. 10 THE COURT: Or would it be acceptable if we 11 just had the courtroom deputy suggest it to him? 12 MR. VICKERY: That would be fine with me. 13 MR. SEE: That would be fine with me. 14 THE COURT: All right. Now, how much longer 15 are you going to be with Mr. Forsyth? 16 MR. SEE: Forty-five minutes. He's the 17 principal fact witness. 18 THE COURT: Then there will probably be some 19 rebuttal after that? 20 MR. VICKERY: I will have probably at least 30 21 minutes of redirect, Your Honor. 22 THE COURT: Well, that sounds like it will take 23 up the rest of the morning then. 24 We'll take a 15-minute break. 25 (Whereupon, a recess was taken at 10:37 a.m.) PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 482 1 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had 2 in open court in the presence of the jury.) 3 THE COURT: Please proceed, Mr. See. 4 MR. SEE: Thank you, Your Honor. 5 Q. Now, we had said that when your dad was in the 6 admission process at Castle, he was having questions 7 asked of him and he was giving answers? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And you were there for that interview? 10 A. I was. 11 Q. And is it correct that the initial interview 12 was the only one that you personally attended during 13 the time of his hospitalization? 14 A. Say that again, please. 15 Q. Sure. You indicated that you were present 16 during the time your dad was initially interviewed on 17 the evening of February 24th? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Is it true that you were not present during any 20 of the other times that your dad was interviewed by 21 the staff at the hospital? 22 A. That was the only interview that I witnessed. 23 Q. Now, during that interview, your dad was asked 24 if he was having suicidal thoughts; isn't that right? 25 A. They did ask that. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 483 1 Q. And at that time he said, no, but I have looked 2 at some knives; isn't that right? 3 A. I don't know if he said he looked at them or he 4 thought about them. 5 Q. Now, you and your mother went to visit your 6 father during the time he was in Castle; isn't that 7 right? 8 A. We did. 9 Q. And you visited the one time, the record show 10 it, February 27th and then in the morning of 11 February 28th. Does that sound about right to you? 12 A. We stayed in the afternoon and a morning, but I 13 don't know the date. But it sounds about right, 14 though. 15 Q. And you and your mom were able to visit your 16 dad on both days, one in the afternoon and then the 17 next morning? 18 A. I don't remember for sure, but I think we did. 19 Q. And I want to ask you how your dad appeared 20 during the visit that you and your mother had kind of 21 in the middle of his hospital stay. 22 Now, you were able to carry on conversations 23 with him? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. He made sense when he talked? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 484 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. But he was still fairly quiet; isn't that 3 right? 4 A. Pretty quiet. 5 Q. And he also appeared calm; that is, he was not 6 up running around or jumping around; isn't that right? 7 A. I didn't see him run around. 8 Q. And to you he did appear calm? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And he was not acting in a bizarre way, acting 11 crazy or out of his head? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Now, your father was discharged from Castle 14 Medical Center on March the 3rd. Does that sound 15 right to you? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. That was the day before he died? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And your mother flew from Maui over here to 20 Oahu to pick him up? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And then they together flew to Maui and you 23 picked them up at the Maui airport? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And that was sometime in the afternoon? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 485 1 A. Yes, it was. 2 Q. Now, at that time, as I understand it, you 3 drove your mother and father to your house; is that 4 right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And then had some conversation there or in the 7 yard next to your house? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And then they went on home and you stayed at 10 your house and you both had dinner apart? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. And then you went up to their house later on 13 that evening and had another visit and talked with 14 your father and stayed there for a couple of hours? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Now, I want to ask you how your father appeared 17 during the time on March the 3rd when you were able to 18 be with him and talk with him. First of all, he told 19 you that he was not feeling that great; isn't that 20 right? 21 A. He -- I don't remember. 22 Q. It was pretty clear to you that he had not 23 recovered? 24 A. He wasn't himself that I knew my whole life, 25 yeah. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 486 1 Q. Now, during the time that you were with your 2 father, both in the late afternoon and early evening, 3 again, he was quiet? 4 A. I talked to him. 5 Q. He was calm? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. He was sitting, sitting on the sofa? 8 A. At times. 9 Q. He wasn't up pacing around the house? 10 A. He didn't pace. 11 Q. He was not acting abnormal or crazy or bizarre? 12 A. He wasn't bizarre or crazy. 13 Q. His demeanor was subdued? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And he was fairly still; that is, he wasn't up 16 jumping around or moving around or pacing or anything 17 like that? 18 A. I remember him getting up to get a paper, a 19 newspaper or something, but he wasn't running around 20 the house. 21 Q. He was not throwing things? He was not 22 violent? 23 A. No. 24 Q. He was not tapping his feet? 25 A. I don't recall. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 487 1 Q. You don't remember anything like that? 2 A. I don't remember him tapping or not tapping his 3 feet. 4 Q. And actually all things considered, I mean 5 understanding that your father was having a depression 6 and had just gotten home from the hospital, your 7 father appeared to you to be fine that evening; isn't 8 that right? 9 A. He wasn't himself, but I wasn't scared that 10 there was something drastically wrong. 11 Q. You were able to go home with a -- with not 12 worrying about your dad that night? 13 A. I wasn't worried. I had concern. I mean, he 14 just came out of a hospital, and he's never been to a 15 hospital in his life before for that. 16 Q. But you weren't worried because of some 17 behavior that you saw? 18 A. I had concern, but I wasn't fearful to leave 19 the home. 20 Q. Now, that evening your father told you that he 21 did not like being in the Castle Medical Center 22 psychiatric unit; isn't that right? 23 A. I think I asked him how did it go and he said 24 he didn't like it. 25 Q. And he told you that he was not comfortable PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 488 1 being around people who were having emotional or 2 mental illness problems? 3 A. I believe he said he didn't like being where 4 people might be suicidal. 5 Q. During the time your father was hospitalized at 6 Castle, your mother had been making calls to various 7 treatment programs and institutions on the Mainland; 8 isn't that right? 9 A. I believe I heard she was. 10 Q. Did you make any calls like that? 11 A. I think I talked to my mom about it. I don't 12 know if I made calls or we just talked about the 13 concept, the idea. 14 Q. And she was specifically investigating and 15 trying to locate a Christian-oriented treatment 16 facility for your father; isn't that correct? 17 A. I think she was exploring anything that would 18 be positive for him. 19 Q. What I specifically was interested in was isn't 20 it the case that the treatment facilities that your 21 mother was investigating for your father, were they 22 not Christian-oriented psychiatric programs? 23 A. I believe she called quite a few, so some of 24 them could have been. 25 Q. Do you recall that one of them was the Dr. Fred PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 489 1 Gross Christian Therapy Program? Does that ring a 2 bell? 3 A. I don't know. Not really. It's been a long 4 time. 5 Q. If I could refer you to the big volume of your 6 deposition at Page 114 starting at Line 1. 7 A. On Page 114? 8 Q. Yes, sir. Were you asked this question and 9 give this answer: 10 "These clinics that your mother talked about, 11 did they utilize a Christian approach to treating 12 depression? 13 "ANSWER: I'm not sure, but I do remember -- I 14 know one of the names of the clinics was a Dr. Fred 15 Gross. I think something like that." 16 Did you give that answer? 17 A. I'm sure I did. 18 MR. VICKERY: Excuse me, Mr. See. Once again, 19 Your Honor, for fairness and completion, I'd like the 20 next question and answer read at this time. 21 THE COURT: Very well. 22 Q (By Mr. See) Starting at Line 6, do you have 23 that, Mr. Forsyth? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. "QUESTION: Okay. Now, my question for you PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 490 1 was, to your knowledge, did the clinics that your 2 mother talked about that evening have specifically to 3 do with a Christian or a religious approach to 4 treating depression? 5 "ANSWER: I don't think they specifically did, 6 but they may. One or the other, could have. I don't 7 think that was her emphasis or the emphasis on what we 8 were looking for." 9 Did you give those answers? 10 A. Yes. 11 MR. SEE: May I approach the witness, Your 12 Honor, to hand him an exhibit? 13 THE COURT: You may. 14 Q (By Mr. See) Mr. Forsyth, I'm going to hand 15 you what's been marked for identification as 16 Exhibit 1142. And the question that I want to ask you 17 about that is, I'm interested not in the text, but in 18 the advertisement part, the part that says, "How do 19 you deal with the pressures in life?" Do you see 20 that? 21 A. Yes, I do. 22 Q. There's a reference there to the Dr. Fred Gross 23 Christian Therapy Program. Does that refresh your 24 recollection, Mr. Forsyth, about what kind of 25 treatment facility that your mother was looking at for PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 491 1 your father? 2 A. It sounds like the statement that I made in my 3 deposition. 4 Q. Now, let's get to the evening conversation. 5 After dinner you came back up to your parents' home 6 and it was just your father and your mother and you, 7 correct? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And you stayed there and you talked with your 10 dad and with your mother for a couple of hours? 11 A. I'd say two to two and a half. 12 Q. And one of the things that you talked about was 13 that the family was looking at another treatment 14 facility for your father to go into; isn't that right? 15 A. That must have been when we talked about that, 16 yes. 17 Q. And when the subject of another treatment 18 facility for your father on the Mainland came up, your 19 father did not respond in a real positive way about 20 that; isn't that right? 21 A. I know -- I don't remember. I know he wanted 22 help just by him asking us to take him to the 23 hospital. 24 Q. Mr. Forsyth, after your -- after your parents 25 were found by you the next day, that would be March PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 492 1 the 4th, right? The police then came to your parents' 2 home -- 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. -- isn't that right? And the police made an 5 investigation of your parents' home and they took 6 certain things with them; isn't that right, sir? 7 A. I didn't watch them during their investigation. 8 Q. But you know or you came to know that the 9 police did remove certain things from your parents' 10 home? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did you learn that one of the things that 13 the police removed on March the 4th from your parents' 14 home was a letter that was stamped and addressed to 15 Bill Dornblazer? 16 A. I've heard about a letter. 17 Q. What happened to that letter, Mr. Forsyth? 18 A. I have no idea. I've never seen the letter. 19 MR. SEE: If I might just briefly approach the 20 witness, Your Honor, one more time? 21 THE COURT: You may. 22 Q (By Mr. See) Let me hand you what's been 23 marked for identification as 1141, and the only 24 question I want to ask you about that exhibit is 25 that's the outside of an envelope and a letter. Does PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 493 1 that appear to be in your mother's handwriting? 2 A. Yes, it does. 3 Q. Mr. Forsyth, is it correct that at some point 4 after your parents deaths you travelled from your home 5 in Maui to Indianapolis, Indiana and went to the 6 headquarters of Eli Lilly and Company? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And is it also correct that during that trip, 9 while you were there, you went to the parking lot 10 where the cars were parked of the Lilly employees and 11 distributed handouts or fliers on the windshield of 12 the automobiles? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And on the same trip, did you also then go to 15 downtown Indianapolis and distribute fliers or 16 handbills on the windshields to the cars that were 17 sort of public that were parked there on the street? 18 A. Yes. 19 MR. SEE: Thank you, sir, very much. 20 THE COURT: Mr. Vickery. 21 MR. VICKERY: Thank you, Your Honor. 22 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 23 BY MR. VICKERY: 24 Q. Why did you do such a thing, fly to 25 Indianapolis and put fliers on the cars of Lilly PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 494 1 employees? 2 A. I was so concerned about the loss of my parents 3 to help educate. 4 Q. To educate who, your parents were dead? 5 A. Anybody I could help that would follow. 6 Q. What did you want to educate them about? 7 A. The dark side of this drug. 8 MR. SEE: Your Honor, I'm going to object and 9 move to strike that response. 10 MR. VICKERY: I'll respond by saying I have no 11 idea on what basis counsel's objection is made. He's 12 just opened this door -- 13 MR. SEE: Your Honor, may we approach? 14 THE COURT: Very well. 15 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had 16 at side bar out of the hearing of the jury.) 17 MR. SEE: Your Honor, my objection is this is a 18 lay witness. He's about to give testimony that Prozac 19 is a bad drug. Prozac is a dangerous drug. Prozac is 20 a harmful drug, and he's not qualified to do it. 21 MR. VICKERY: Your Honor, Mr. See just asked 22 him -- I stayed away from that on purpose in the 23 direct examination. Mr. See just asked him about this 24 trip and I want to know his motivation and state of 25 mind in making that trip. Mr. See has opened that PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 495 1 door, not me. 2 MR. SEE: But what the witness is not entitled 3 to do is give lay opinion testimony. He's not 4 entitled to say the drug is bad. He's not allowed to 5 say that it causes harm. He doesn't have the 6 qualifications to do that. 7 THE COURT: Well, I'm going to strike the last 8 answer, but I'll allow the part about his concern 9 about his parents and he wants to help educate the 10 people. But I'm not going to say, we're striking the 11 dark side of the drug. 12 MR. VICKERY: I don't want you to say that at 13 all, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: I'm asking Mr. See. 15 MR. VICKERY: I'm sorry, I thought you were 16 asking me. 17 MR. SEE: To strike the last sentence would be 18 fine. 19 THE COURT: All right. 20 MR. VICKERY: Your Honor, while we're still at 21 side bar here, I intend to since Mr. See has 22 questioned his motivations obviously and state of 23 mind. 24 THE COURT: He explained his motivation. 25 MR. VICKERY: I'm concerned that an instruction PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 496 1 from the Court on this last statement takes away from 2 Mr. Forsyth's state of mind. It's like the Court 3 saying his state of mind doesn't matter. 4 THE COURT: He said he was there to help 5 educate people and he was concerned about his parents, 6 but I'm not going to go on with a lay opinion on what 7 he did. 8 MR. VICKERY: Will you make that clear in your 9 instruction to the jury that his concern was educating 10 people? They can consider that, just not his opinion 11 about the drug. 12 THE COURT: Yes. 13 MR. VICKERY: Thank you. 14 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were had 15 in open court in the presence of the jury.) 16 THE COURT: The Court instructs the jury that 17 you may consider the witness' statement that he went 18 there because he was concerned about his parents and 19 he wanted to help educate other people, but as far as 20 his last sentence, that is stricken and you should not 21 consider it. Please proceed, Mr. Vickery. 22 MR. VICKERY: Thank you, Your Honor. 23 Q. Now, Mr. Forsyth, I want to follow up just on a 24 few matters that Mr. See touched on with you, and if 25 you will there, take the big volume of your PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 497 1 deposition. Tell us from the very front page when 2 that deposition was taken. 3 A. This one says March 5, 9:00 a.m., 1996. 4 Q. That was three years ago last Friday, correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Have you ever read this deposition? 7 A. I've never read it. It's too lengthy for me. 8 Q. Well, weren't you afraid that if you didn't 9 read it, you might say something a little bit 10 different when you got up on the witness stand? 11 A. I'm not afraid of the truth. I'm just trying 12 to remember as best as I can. 13 Q. Let me ask you, if you would, to turn to 14 Page 66. There's a sequence that Mr. See asked you 15 about and I want to read the rest of it. 16 MR. SEE: Your Honor, I object. It's improper 17 impeachment. It's hearsay. 18 MR. VICKERY: The rules of evidence are very 19 clear, once he offers a part of a writing, Your Honor, 20 then I'm entitled to offer the rest to put the whole 21 thing in context. There's two sequences with this 22 deposition where I intend to do that. 23 THE COURT: What lines are you referring to on 24 Page 56? 25 MR. VICKERY: The lines are -- Page 66 Lines 4 PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 498 1 through 24. It was not used for impeachment anyway, 2 Your Honor, because I don't think that it was 3 inconsistent with his testimony today, but I'm 4 offering this entire sequence to put that colloquy 5 that Mr. See asked him about into its full context. 6 THE COURT: I'll allow it. 7 MR. VICKERY: Thank you, Your Honor. 8 Q. Now, Page 66, this is the time when you had 9 this incident where you were mowing the lawn and your 10 father backed the car out, you remember that incident? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What I'm going to do is just read the questions 13 as they appear on Line 4, and if you would just read 14 the answer as you gave it to Mr. See on March 6, 1996. 15 "What did he say?" 16 A. "As I remember, he didn't respond, which 17 concerned me. That was about it. I left and a couple 18 of hours later I called my wife from the boat to say 19 hi, at which time she told me that my dad had called 20 and said for her to tell me not to worry, that he felt 21 much better. Everything's going to be okay and not to 22 worry about our meeting in the morning." 23 Q. "When you were talking to your dad at this 24 meeting at his house in the morning, did he tell you 25 that he was worried about something?" PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 499 1 A. "No, but I sensed concern." 2 Q. "Did you see that on his face?" 3 A. "More on his face and his presence. There 4 wasn't a lot of conversation. It was short, the 5 visit, but I did have concern and he, I think, for the 6 first time, saw in me that I had concern. Because I 7 was amazed at his phone call later that in his 8 condition he was able to evaluate my concern for him, 9 my worry for him. He had enough love for me to call 10 later and try to get the message to me not to worry, 11 that he felt better and was okay. I was very 12 surprised and impressed by that." 13 Q. Did you appreciate the love that your father 14 had that even in his condition, he would take the time 15 to call and say don't worry about me? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Now, turn with me, if you would, to Page 52. 18 This is the section where Mr. See was asking you about 19 February 24th, 1993, when your father wanted you to 20 take him immediately to the hospital. Do you recall 21 that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And we're going to just do the same thing, if 24 we can, from 52 Line 8 down to 53 Line 8. 25 "Now, did your dad -- how did your dad behave PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 500 1 when he was having the panic attack on February 24, 2 1993?" 3 A. "He behaved like a -- in a manner that I did 4 not recognize. He wasn't himself. He wasn't able to 5 call Dr. Riggs himself which was out of his character, 6 as he could normally handle most any dealings on his 7 own." 8 Q. "Did he say that he was worried?" 9 A. "He said that he felt strange. That he had to 10 go to a hospital. That he wanted to detox from the 11 drugs which he was given. He said, at my suggestion, 12 I said that we could go tomorrow as it's late in the 13 day and to try to get everything together, a flight 14 and such. I didn't know that we could make a flight 15 maybe -- I didn't know that we could make a flight 16 maybe three or four." 17 Q. "In the afternoon?" 18 A. "Probably three, but he said he had to go 19 today." 20 Q. "Did your father on February 24th, 1993, did 21 your father say he felt like something bad was going 22 to happen to him or words to that effect?" 23 A. "He said he didn't want to do something 24 strange. That he wanted to detox. I was looking at 25 him at about the same distance that we are while I was PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 501 1 making the call and I looked in his eyes. He was not 2 even there. I mean, I did not see my dad. The 3 presence in his face or his eyes. There was no eye 4 contact. There was just a hollowness. A man who was 5 no longer representative of who he was the many years 6 that I knew him." 7 Q. Mr. Forsyth, do you remember now, having read 8 this, your father saying to you on that day, two days 9 after he began to take Prozac, that he didn't want to 10 do something strange? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Are you okay? Get a little water for yourself. 13 Mr. See also asked you about an incident in 14 which you were on your way to your daughter's swim 15 meet and you and your dad were in the car and he said, 16 "Turn here, let's go to see Dr. Roberts." 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you recall that incident? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you couldn't see Dr. Roberts that day, 21 could you? 22 A. We didn't see him. 23 Q. But you and your dad did something else that 24 calmed him and made him better, didn't you? 25 A. We did. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 502 1 Q. Would you look these people in the eye and tell 2 them what you did? 3 A. We just bowed our heads and prayed and just 4 asked to go about our day and be okay. 5 Q. When you bowed your head to pray with your 6 father privately there, he didn't say, "Come on, 7 Billy. Stop this pressure. I don't want to hear this 8 religious stuff?" He didn't say something like that 9 to you? 10 A. No, he prayed with me. 11 Q. And did he get better? 12 A. Well, we went down to the meet and watched my 13 daughter and had a great time. 14 Q. Okay. Now, I just have a few more things to 15 ask you. First of all, your mother's journals, 16 Mr. See has asked you about her journals and what kind 17 of a person she was. Did you ever see her private 18 journals in her lifetime? 19 A. No, I didn't. 20 Q. But was she, indeed, the kind of a person who 21 was a woman of strong faith who would write prayers or 22 scripture verses or things to herself? 23 A. Yes, she was. 24 Q. Was she ever in her life the kind of a woman 25 who would, well, be what I, from the deep South, would PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 503 1 call a button holder, somebody that really kind of 2 grabs somebody by the shirt and say, you know, I want 3 you to find God. I want you to be religious. Was she 4 that kind of a woman? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did she ever put pressure on your father to 7 have an encounter or an experience with God? 8 A. No. 9 Q. In what way -- if she did influence him, in 10 what way did she do it? 11 A. She just loved him, you know, and wanted him to 12 have what she had. 13 Q. Now, in the sequence you read in the deposition 14 with Mr. See, you said something about your father 15 finding peace and having an experience of his own. 16 Did your father, in early 1993, have some kind of a 17 religious experience or awakening of his own? 18 A. He did. 19 Q. I want to look at that in chronological 20 context, but let's look at it with the journals first, 21 okay? In this blowup that we have from Mr. See in the 22 1991 journal, your mother writes, "Won't take walks 23 with me on the beach and yet when friends come to 24 visit, he walks with them while I'm cooking." 25 I want to ask you, Mr. Forsyth, about 1993, two PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 504 1 years later after they had been through marital 2 therapy with Tom Brady, did you see your parents walk 3 on the beach many times together? 4 A. Yes, I did. 5 Q. And your mother writes, when he talks -- "When 6 I talk, he glares at me or puts his hand up. He never 7 does this to anyone else." Did your father have a 8 habit within your family of when somebody was saying 9 something, he would be quiet or something, he would 10 hold his hand up like that? 11 A. Yeah, he's done it to me before. 12 Q. That's what I was going to ask you. He's done 13 it to you? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Was it ever kind of an in-your-face thing or 16 hostile action or was it a signal? What was it? 17 A. If he's watching TV or had some important 18 business or phone call, if I was loud or not being 19 considerate, that was to get my attention that he 20 thought what he was doing was real important and could 21 I be quiet. 22 Q. Let's look at the 1992 and '93 journals. Could 23 I have the television on Ms. Barth. Mr. Chang, maybe 24 you could help me here. 25 Mr. Forsyth, can you see that from where you PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 505 1 are? 2 A. So far, yeah. 3 Q. Maybe let me turn it a little bit more in your 4 direction. 5 MR. VICKERY: These are Plaintiffs' 172, Your 6 Honor, the entire journal of June Forsyth. The first 7 entry we're going to look at is January 3rd of 1992, 8 the start of that year, okay? 9 MR. SEE: I'm sorry, mine doesn't -- 10 MR. VICKERY: She hasn't gotten it up yet, 11 Mr. See. 12 Q. Can you read that from there or do you need to 13 come down? I'm going to ask you, since it is your 14 mom's handwriting, to read the highlighting. 15 A. I need to get a little closer. 16 Q. Come on down. 17 MR. VICKERY: Your Honor, I'm sorry. I 18 apologize to the Court. 19 THE COURT: Yes. He asked if he could go down. 20 MR. VICKERY: I should have, I'm sorry. 21 Q. Would you just read what's highlighted? 22 A. "God, if you are working through me to heal our 23 marriage, I see now I must -- must or mustn't -- 24 mustn't feel totally responsible for the whole task." 25 Q. And then down at the bottom of the page -- of PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 506 1 course, the jury will have all of these later -- what 2 did she write there? 3 A. "Thank you for all you have reached to me this 4 past year." 5 Q. Revealed maybe? 6 A. "Thank you for all you have revealed to me the 7 past year, 1991." 8 Q. Okay. We're going to go forward about ten 9 months to late October, October 30 after your mom and 10 dad had their first meeting with Tom Brady in Los 11 Angeles, okay. 12 October 30, would you read that please, sir? 13 A. It says, "Lord, show me the path of obedience 14 that I may walk in it today, your present." 15 Q. Your promise? 16 A. "Your promise. I will set my eyes on Bill for 17 good." 18 Q. And at the bottom of that page, I'm sorry, it 19 is November 10th? 20 A. "As Tom Brady says, feelings are just that, 21 feelings. They have no basis in realty, no logic, 22 just a feeling. I must give others a" -- that's a 23 squiggly there -- "a wide path, but also myself." 24 Q. Okay. The next one is from November of 1992 25 and, Ms. Barth, put it up there for us. PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 507 1 A. "Bill and I together. I choose today to love 2 Bill unconditionally. Give him a wide path. Give all 3 my family that wide path, and work on being me as God 4 would have me." 5 Q. Thank you. Now, December 3rd, this is the day 6 before their last visit with Dr. Brady, they're still 7 in Los Angeles. Would you read this? 8 A. "This is our day to move, not only out of this 9 dark place of despair, but into a new happy life of 10 peace and joy and God. I" -- 11 MR. SEE: Relinquish. 12 THE WITNESS: "I relinquish Bill to you to do 13 your work in him. You have done such wondrous" -- 14 Q (By Mr. Vickery) I think it is just wonders, 15 isn't it? 16 A. "Wonders in my life. I know you are working in 17 his and that your love -- that you love us both." 18 Q. Okay. Down at the bottom of that page, what 19 does your mother write on December 2, 1992? 20 A. "This is the first day of the rest of my life." 21 Q. Now, let's look at January. Ms. Barth, turn 22 that off for just a minute, if you would. 23 MR. VICKERY: Your Honor, I want to offer into 24 evidence Exhibit 1141 the letter that Mr. See asked 25 Mr. Forsyth to identify as being in his mother's PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 508 1 handwriting. 2 THE COURT: Any objection? 3 MR. SEE: The letter is not on the exhibit 4 list, Your Honor. 5 MR. VICKERY: It's got an exhibit number. 6 Mr. See gave it an exhibit number. He asked 7 Mr. Forsyth on the stand to identify it. 8 THE WITNESS: I have it up there. 9 MR. VICKERY: And I would like to offer it into 10 evidence so the jury can have it, Your Honor. 11 THE COURT: Any problems, Mr. See? 12 MR. SEE: Only that it's not on the exhibit 13 list, Your Honor. 14 THE COURT: It's on your exhibit list. 15 MR. SEE: No, it's not. I just had it 16 identified for identification. I want to use it for 17 something later. I was not going to offer it into 18 evidence. 19 THE COURT: Do you have any objection to it 20 being admitted? 21 MR. SEE: No objection. 22 THE COURT: Very well. 1141, is that it? 23 MR. VICKERY: Yes, it is, Your Honor. 24 THE COURT: 1141 is admitted. 25 PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 509 1 Q (By Mr. Vickery) Now, this is a letter to a 2 lady named Judy Hawkes back in Los Angeles. Do you 3 know Ms. Hawkes? 4 A. I recognize the name on it, but I forget who it 5 is. 6 Q. Okay. And the postmark says it is January 6, 7 1993, right? 8 A. Yes, it does. 9 Q. Let's look, if we may, at the second page of 10 what your mother writes to Ms. Hawkes. Will you read 11 right here now. 12 A. "Bill has" -- I don't know what that is. "Bill 13 has asked for a reconciliation and come back to Maui 14 the first part of December." 15 Q. At the bottom. 16 A. "I believe He is doing great works in Bill's 17 life." 18 Q. Now, that "He" is capitalized. Is she talking 19 about God doing great works in Bill's life? 20 A. I think she is. 21 Q. Let's go back to the journal and look at the 22 entry of January 12, 1993. Would you read that for 23 us? 24 A. "Bill told me that he kneeled down in the hall 25 and asked if -- asked you into his heart, Lord. Thank PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 510 1 you. I praise you for the work you're doing in his 2 life. If your word is true, and it is, he is now born 3 again." 4 Q. Now, Mr. Forsyth, before we look at the last 5 entry in your mother's calendar or journal, tell me 6 this, did you have a conversation with your father 7 where he related to you this incident in his home 8 where he knelt down and said a prayer and asked for an 9 understanding or a better relationship with God? Did 10 he share that with you? 11 A. He did. 12 MR. SEE: I object to leading and hearsay, Your 13 Honor. 14 THE COURT: I'll object (sic) as to leading. 15 Q (By Mr. Vickery) Okay. Why don't you sit in 16 the chair. We've got one more to read and I'll read 17 that one. 18 Tell us, if you would, sir, what you recall 19 your father saying to you about this incident recorded 20 in your mother's journals of him kneeling down in his 21 home privately. 22 A. One day I was up in their neighborhood working 23 in the lot next to their home on a boat mast painting 24 it, and my father came out of the back sliding door 25 and walked over to me in the lot and just said he PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 511 1 wanted to talk to me, and I stopped what I was doing 2 and said okay. And he said, he wanted me to know that 3 he felt he had his own close relationship with God now 4 and that he had prayed and it was a very wonderful 5 time. I just hugged him and told him that was really 6 great and I was just excited for him and that I could 7 be there for him. It was a great moment that he 8 shared with me. 9 THE COURT: What's that offered for, 10 Mr. Vickery? 11 MR. VICKERY: That's offered, Your Honor -- 12 well, I didn't intend to offer it for any limited 13 purpose at all. I guess to respond to the notion that 14 Mr. Forsyth, at the time of his death, was under some 15 religious pressure that he resented in some way. 16 THE COURT: Very well. 17 Q (By Mr. Vickery) Let's look at the last thing 18 your mother has to say about that in her journal. 19 January 26, 1993, "Bill's spiritual birthday. Thank 20 you, God. When things work together for good to those 21 who love the Lord" -- I'm sorry, "All things work 22 together for the good for those who love the Lord and 23 are called according to his purpose." Thank you, 24 Ms. Barth. 25 Did you ever, from January 26, 1993 until the PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 512 1 time of your parents deaths, hear your father say 2 anything to indicate that his own experience was not 3 real, legitimate, or that he in any way resented 4 anything about your faith or your mother's faith? Did 5 you ever see or hear anything like that? 6 A. Nothing at all. 7 Q. Okay. Mr. Forsyth, the final thing I want to 8 do here is play a video of -- some of your family 9 videos. Over the years, has your family taken videos 10 of family situations? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And have you provided all of those and have 13 they been edited down into about a 15-minute segment 14 or so? 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. VICKERY: Okay. Your Honor, we are going 17 to offer this as previously -- what's the number? 18 MS. BARTH: 167. 19 MR. VICKERY: It's part of 167, and pursuant to 20 the rulings of the Court, we offer this and the 21 related photos. 22 Are they the same number? 23 MS. BARTH: No, 168. 24 MR. VICKERY: And 168 are the photos, so the 25 offer is as to 167 and 168, and we have here the PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 513 1 limiting instruction that the Court has discussed with 2 counsel. If I may tender it to your clerk. 3 THE COURT: Very well. The Court will instruct 4 the jury that plaintiffs' counsel will be showing you 5 a videotape of excerpts from the Forsyths' home 6 movies, as well as some family photographs. Parts of 7 the tape and pictures that depict Mr. and 8 Mrs. Forsyth's grandchildren are presented to 9 illustrate Mr. and Mrs. Forsyth's relationship with 10 their family before Mr. Forsyth became depressed. 11 They are not intended to establish any right to 12 compensation for the grandchildren. Under Hawaii law, 13 grandchildren do not have a right to recover damages 14 for the wrongful death of their grandparents. 15 You are instructed not to consider the 16 videotape portions or four photographs that include 17 the grandchildren for any other purpose then to 18 illustrate Mr. and Mrs. Forsyth and their relationship 19 with their family before Mr. Forsyth became depressed. 20 MR. VICKERY: Thank you, Your Honor. 21 Q. As we roll the tape, what I would like for you 22 to do, Mr. Forsyth, is just tell them who generally 23 the people are on the screen. You don't have to talk 24 all the time. Just say that's my mom or my dad and 25 these are my kids so they'll understand who they are PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 514 1 seeing and also who they are hearing. I think there 2 are some sequences where your father is taking the 3 video. Could you do that for us? 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. Okay. Ms. Barth, if you would. 6 (Whereupon, the playing of the videotape 7 commenced.) 8 THE WITNESS: This is our church. 9 Q (By Mr. Vickery) Who's this lady right here? 10 A. That's my wife Kim. 11 Q. Can you tell us who these folks are? 12 A. That's my mom and dad. 13 Q. And who's this little guy? Is that Willie? 14 A. Yeah, that's Willie. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Could you stop that for a second? It's a 17 little hard for me to see. That's my sister-in-law 18 that I said was my wife. She's ten months older than 19 my wife and does look a lot like her, but my wife is 20 next to me. I'm sorry. 21 Q. This is your sister-in-law? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And this is you holding the baby? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And that's Kim, your wife, next to you? PACIFIC REPORTING SERVICES UNLIMITED, INC. (808) 524-PRSU 515 1 A. Yes. This is a boat that I had in the past. 2 I've had quite a few boats for the charter business. 3 That's my son. 4 Q. Who's that guy?