7 Q. I am not going to call you nasty. I'm going 8 to call you Flo, if that's all right. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. Or Mimi. You go by either, I understand. 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Well, you were here the other day and you kind 13 of saw the process. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. But let me assume you have never given a 16 deposition before. Is that true? 17 A. Sure haven't, sure haven't. 18 Q. Be sure, as you and I are talking this 19 afternoon, that you let me finish my question, and then 20 I'll let you finish your answer. Okay? 21 A. Sure. 22 Q. Now, we're shaking our heads right now and 23 nodding. And you and I would normally do that when we 24 talk across the table like this. Unfortunately, we've 25 got one other guy listening in here now. So he has to 4 1 have audible answers. 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. Although he can put she nodded her head, she 4 shook her head, it just doesn't look as good on the 5 record. All right? So if you have any questions about 6 anything I ask you, Flo, you just tell me, "I don't 7 understand your question." 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. And I'll repeat it or rephrase it. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. Some of the areas that we need to talk about, 12 I want to apologize in advance. I know they are very 13 sensitive areas. But I hope you understand Mr. Preuss 14 and I have a client to represent, as Mr. Vickery does. 15 And some of those areas that we need to ask you about we 16 know are sensitive. And if at any time you want to have 17 a break for any reason, you just raise your hand or wink 18 at me or whatever and we'll take a break. Okay? 19 A. Sure. 20 Q. Do you have any questions before we start? 21 A. Not really. 22 Q. All right. Let's go ahead and have you tell 23 Jack, our court reporter here, your full name and what 24 your address is. 25 A. Flo Reavis at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. 5 1 Q. And how long, Flo, have you lived in xxxxxxxxx? 2 A. Since '58. 3 Q. So you're darn near a native. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. You were born when and where? See, I don't 6 get to ask you how old you are but I do get to ask you 7 what's your date of birth. 8 A. Okay. 1_9_22, in Oklahoma. 9 Q. So you came to xxxxxxxxx when you were 36. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And what brought you to xxxxxxxxxx? 12 A. My husband was with the oil field. 13 Q. And your husband was who? 14 A. Gerald Reavis. 15 Q. And Mr. Reavis I understand passed away when? 16 A. In March of '97. 17 Q. And when were you and Gerald married? 18 A. In June of 40 __ in 19 and 40. 19 Q. And you and Gerald then had how many children? 20 A. Four. 21 Q. And Rita __ 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. __ was one of your daughters. Neva is a 24 daughter. And tell me who the other children are. 25 A. Peggy Deans. 6 1 Q. And Peggy lives in New Mexico? 2 A. New Mexico. And then David Reavis, deceased. 3 Q. And David died as a baby? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Oh. David died in the car wreck. 6 A. Car wreck, yes. 7 Q. That's right. When did he pass away? 8 A. In 19 and 87. 9 Q. Who is the __ give me, who is the oldest? Who 10 was the oldest? 11 A. Rita. 12 Q. And then next in line? 13 A. Neva, Peggy and David. 14 Q. Had you ever been married other than to 15 Gerald? 16 A. No. 17 Q. And had Gerald ever been married other than to 18 you? 19 A. No. 20 Q. And you were married for 57 years when your 21 husband passed away. 22 A. Right. 23 Q. You had brothers or sisters of your own? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. How many? 7 1 A. Oh, boy. There was four girls and three boys. 2 Q. I got you beat. In my family there are four 3 girls and four boys. 4 A. Oh, really. 5 Q. Yes. Are all of your sisters still living? 6 A. Just one. 7 Q. Okay. Are all of your brothers still living? 8 A. Just one. 9 Q. Which sister is still alive? 10 A. The youngest. 11 Q. And what's her name? 12 A. Annabelle. 13 Q. And where does Annabelle live? 14 A. Wichita, Kansas. 15 Q. And one brother is still alive? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What is his name? 18 A. Cecil Walmer. 19 Q. And where does he live? 20 A. In Tulsa, Oklahoma. 21 Q. Did Gerald have brothers or sisters? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. How many? 24 A. Three boys and three girls. 25 Q. Are any of those children still alive? 8 1 A. All of them but one. He's got a brother 2 deceased. 3 Q. And what was the brother's name that died? 4 A. Truman Reavis. 5 Q. Where are the two brothers that are alive? 6 What are their names and where do they live? 7 A. Well, Gerald was one of them, see. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. And then Truman passed away and Gerald passed 10 away. And then Earl lives in Barnsdall, Oklahoma. 11 Q. So he's the only surviving brother. 12 A. Of the boys, yeah. 13 Q. How about the sisters? 14 A. All of them are living. 15 Q. What are just their first names and where do 16 they live? 17 A. Hazel in Oklahoma, Edith in Oklahoma and 18 Loraine in Oklahoma. 19 Q. So they all stayed in the Oklahoma country. 20 A. Yeah. They was smart. 21 Q. To your knowledge, any of Gerald's family, 22 brothers or sisters, did any of his family suffer with 23 any mental illness, including depression, that you're 24 aware of? 25 A. No. 9 1 Q. How about your brothers or sisters? 2 A. No. 3 Q. You say you and Gerald came to Gillette in 4 1958 because your husband was in the oil fields. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Who did your husband work for? 7 A. Lohman and Johnson out of Evansville, Indiana. 8 Q. And how long did he work for that company, 9 approximately? 10 A. Probably about 40, 45 years. 11 Q. He was one of the original employees? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. What did he do for Lohman and Johnson? 14 A. He ended up as a drilling superintendent. 15 Q. And is that the job that he held at the time 16 of his death or had he retired? 17 A. He had retired. 18 Q. Now, I understand from Neva yesterday that 19 your husband in '96 had some heart surgery? 20 A. Yes. He had open heart surgery in October of 21 '96. 22 Q. Can you tell me, just in terms that I would 23 understand, what his heart problem was at that point? 24 What did they discover? 25 A. His veins were closed. 10 1 Q. Okay. So he had some bypass surgery? 2 A. Yes, four of them. 3 Q. Prior to that time, did he have any problems 4 with his heart that you were aware of? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Or that he was aware of? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did he have any physical problems at all that 9 you were aware of, I mean, significant physical 10 maladies? 11 A. No. 12 Q. When did your husband retire? 13 A. He retired at 62, and I don't remember what 14 year that was, though. 15 Q. He was retired, however, when he had his heart 16 surgery? 17 A. Yeah. He had retired. It had been 18 years. 18 Q. Since retirement? 19 A. Retirement, uh_huh. 20 Q. How did you and he keep yourselves occupied 21 when he was home and underfoot? 22 A. That's a good way to put it. No. We went 23 south for the winter and fished all summer. 24 Q. Okay. So you had a place where you went to in 25 the winter, you went south? 11 1 A. No. We had an RV. 2 Q. Okay. Is that something that you did almost 3 every year? 4 A. Every winter. 5 Q. When the snow started falling in Gillette __ 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. __ off you went? 8 A. We flew south. 9 Q. And when the snow melted, you came back to 10 Gillette and fished? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. When would you generally leave Gillette? 13 A. About November the 1st. 14 Q. And you then would come back when? 15 A. About April the 1st. 16 Q. That's good timing. Where did you go south? 17 A. For several years, we went to Arizona, and 18 then later, four or five years, we went to Corpus 19 Christi. 20 Q. So you would just take your RV and __ 21 A. And live in it. 22 Q. __ and live in an RV park and __ 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. What type of activities did you and 25 Gerald do in your retirement? You fished. When you 12 1 went south, what did you do? 2 A. Done a lot of sight_seeing and fishing. 3 Q. Were you a golfer or he was a golfer? 4 A. No, no. 5 Q. Okay. Rita married Don when? 6 A. In '61. 7 Q. Did you know Don __ I mean, I assume you had 8 met Don before __ 9 A. Oh, sure. 10 Q. __ before he and Rita got married. But for 11 how long a period of time did they date or was there a 12 courtship before they __ 13 A. About a year, year and a half. 14 Q. Did you know Don Schell before he started 15 dating your daughter? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you as you sit here today, Flo, know 18 anything about Don's either physical or mental health in 19 the period of time prior to 1960, '61, when he started 20 dating your daughter? 21 A. No. 22 Q. I understand that he and Rita __ Rita was 23 pregnant when they got married. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What effect did that have on your and your 13 1 husband's relationship with Donald, if any? 2 A. Not any. 3 Q. Did you approve of Rita and Don's relationship 4 initially? 5 A. Sure. 6 Q. How was Don? Was Don a good guy? 7 A. He was a good guy. 8 Q. Did you graduate from high school, Flo? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Where did you go to high school? 11 A. Erlsboro, Oklahoma. 12 Q. In Oklahoma? Do you have any education past 13 high school? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Did your husband graduate from high school? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Does he have any formal education? Obviously, 18 the education of hard knocks. But does he have any 19 formal education past high school? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did your husband work in the oil field all of 22 his life, working life? 23 A. After we got married, he went into the oil 24 field. 25 Q. Was that also Don's occupation for his 14 1 life __ 2 A. Yes, as far as I know. 3 Q. __ working in the oil fields? All right. Do 4 you know anything about Don's history in the military? 5 A. I sure don't. 6 Q. Have you ever seen any of Don's records from 7 the military? 8 A. I sure haven't. 9 Q. At any time prior to his death in February of 10 '98, do you know if Don was ever involved in any 11 accidents where he sustained any serious injury of any 12 kind? 13 A. No, I don't think so. 14 Q. When Don and Rita were married back in 1961, 15 Don at that time was working for Occidental Petroleum. 16 A. I believe so. 17 Q. Was Rita working at that time? Did Rita work? 18 A. Oh, yes. 19 Q. What did she do? What was her profession? 20 A. Banking. She went to work in the bank. 21 Q. Here in Gillette? 22 A. Uh_huh. 23 Q. How long did she work in the bank? 24 A. I don't know. I can't remember. 25 Q. There was a period in her background where she 15 1 became involved in real estate. 2 A. Yes, but __ 3 Q. Do you remember about the time when that was? 4 A. She had been working in real estate for about 5 eight or nine years, as far as I can collect. 6 Q. At the time of her death, you mean? 7 A. Uh_huh. 8 Q. Other than the work that she had at the __ and 9 I believe it was the Stockmens Bank, it was known as 10 then. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Other than the time she worked at the 13 Stockmens Bank here in Gillette and the time she did 14 real estate work, did she have any other employment with 15 any other groups? 16 A. She had a business in her home at one time. 17 Q. What kind of business? 18 A. Secretarial. 19 Q. What kind of secretary work did she do out of 20 her home? 21 A. Gosh, I don't remember. 22 Q. Was that between the bank business and the 23 real estate business? 24 A. Oh, yes. 25 Q. I understand Mike was born in 1962. 16 1 A. Right. 2 Q. And then Debbie was born in 1966? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. And I understand that there was another child 5 between the two that lived for just a short period of 6 time? 7 A. Right. 8 Q. And that was a boy? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. Do you know any of the circumstances around 11 what caused the baby's death? 12 A. He was __ the cord was around his neck when he 13 was born. 14 Q. So he lived for just a short period of time. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. During Don and Rita's marriage, did Rita ever 17 talk to you or share with you any specific details with 18 respect to hers and Don's relationship? Do you 19 understand what I mean? 20 A. You mean did they have any troubles? Is that 21 what you're talking about? 22 Q. Right. Did Rita ever talk to you __ 23 A. No, no. 24 Q. Now, let me make sure we're talking on the 25 same page __ 17 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. __ of music here. I'm not sure I understand 3 your answer. Did Rita ever share with you prior to her 4 death anything about, for example, financial problems 5 that they were having? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Or marital difficulties or disagreements __ 8 A. No. 9 Q. __ of a significant nature that they were 10 having? 11 A. No, no. 12 Q. Was Rita a person that would talk to you about 13 those things if they did happen? 14 A. If it was bad enough, if it was __ if it was 15 where she needed to for some consultation or something. 16 Q. Did she ever feel the need to have a 17 consultation with her mother about any issues concerning 18 she and Don? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Do you have any information from any source, 21 Flo, about __ and let's take this prior to 1998. Okay? 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. From 1961 to 1998, did Don suffer with 24 depression? 25 A. I don't know. 18 1 Q. Do you have any information at all, from Rita 2 or from any other source, occasions during this period 3 of time, '61 to '98, where Rita had talked to you about 4 mental problems Don was having? 5 A. Well, one time she said something about that 6 he wasn't feeling good, but that's the only way she 7 would explain it. 8 Q. She would just say he wasn't feeling well? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. You say one time she said this. Do you have a 11 recollection of when in time this was? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you know Dr. Buchanan from here in 14 Gillette? 15 A. Just through the hospital. 16 Q. Okay. You have information __ 17 A. I have never met him. 18 Q. Never met him or never had to go see him __ 19 A. No. 20 Q. __ as a patient or anything? 21 A. No. 22 Q. We have some information that in 1989, Don was 23 being treated __ saw and was being treated by Dr. 24 Buchanan for some anxiety and depression. Do you know 25 anything about __ 19 1 A. That's the only time I heard about Buchanan, 2 when Rita was telling me about that. 3 Q. Tell me what Rita told you about Buchanan that 4 you recall. 5 A. She didn't say anything about Buchanan. She 6 just said Don was feeling bad and went to Buchanan. 7 Q. Do you know what kind of physician Dr. 8 Buchanan is? 9 A. I think he's a psychiatrist __ isn't he? __ 10 sort of. 11 Q. Did you ask Rita, "Well, why is he going to a 12 psychiatrist?" 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you know what, if anything, Dr. Buchanan 15 did for or to Don __ 16 A. No. 17 Q. __ on this __ 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. __ when he was seeing him? 20 A. I don't know. 21 Q. At any time between 1961 and 1998, did you 22 have any information from any source, including Rita, 23 where you knew that Don was being treated with 24 medication for anxiety and depression? 25 A. You mean from '61 to __ 20 1 Q. To 1998. 2 A. Just that one time. 3 Q. What one time, Buchanan? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Do you know that Dr. Buchanan was treating __ 6 whenever that was, do you know that Dr. Buchanan was 7 treating Don for his depression with medication? 8 A. I didn't know. 9 Q. Okay. And that's what I want to ask you. Do 10 you have any knowledge from any source about any 11 medication that was used to treat Don during the period 12 in '61 to '98 for any depression? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. Are you aware of a period of time in 15 the 1991 time frame when Don had another episode of 16 depression that involved some complaints of impotence by 17 him at that time? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Rita has never said anything to you about 20 that? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Neva ever said anything to you about that? 23 A. Not that I remember. 24 Q. Don, we show, retired from Occidental 25 Petroleum in 1993. Do you know __ 21 1 A. I don't remember. 2 Q. __ what year it was? 3 A. When he retired, no. 4 Q. Well, I'll tell you that the records we have 5 show that he retired in 1993 from Occidental Petroleum. 6 Do you know whether or not issues surrounding his 7 retirement were particularly troubling for Don? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Were you ever made aware of issues or disputes 10 that he had with Occidental concerning his retirement 11 plan __ 12 A. No. 13 Q. __ at that time? 14 Okay. In March of '93, there is another event 15 that we show in records that have been produced in this 16 case that Don Schell is again seen by Dr. Buchanan with 17 a diagnosis of major depression that had happened 18 before, recurrent. My question to you is, were you 19 aware around that time frame, 1993, where Don again went 20 back to Dr. Buchanan for what has been described as a 21 major depression? 22 A. I don't know anything about that. 23 Q. And if that happened, obviously, you and Rita 24 didn't talk about that. 25 A. Well, see, we spent most of the winter down 22 1 south. 2 Q. So you wouldn't even have been here then. 3 A. I wouldn't even have been here. 4 Q. That's right. I'm glad you reminded me. I 5 forgot about that. That's right. You would have been 6 gone. You would have been south if that happened. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. All right. Has Rita or anyone else ever 9 shared with you information concerning any period in his 10 life, Don's life, where he was seen or treated at a 11 facility called Piedmont Psychological Practice in 12 Sheridan, Wyoming? Do you know anything about that? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Or do you know a physician by the name of Dr. 15 Ray Leugers, L_e_u_g_e_r_s? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you know a Kevin Nelson? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Can you think back, Flo, and recall if you 20 were ever aware of any times after Don's retirement from 21 Occidental __ and then I understand he began working 22 kind of as an independent contractor as a contract 23 pumper. 24 A. Right. 25 Q. Okay. After his retirement from Occidental 23 1 and when he was working as a contract pumper, at any 2 time up until his death, do you recall or have any 3 information about any times when Don had to take 4 extended periods of time off work and have other people 5 cover his contract pumping work for any physical or 6 mental problems? 7 A. No. I don't know anything about that. 8 Q. Do you know Dr. Patel? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Have you ever been a patient of Dr. Patel's? 11 A. No. 12 Q. What do you know, just that he's a doctor here 13 in town, or do you know __ 14 A. Gerald went to him. 15 Q. Your husband did. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. For what? For his heart problem? 18 A. He went to him for just a regular office call 19 and then Patel sent him to Billings. 20 Q. Was this when he had his heart surgery? 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q. If you were in Gillette when your husband was 23 alive, if you were in Gillette and not down south and 24 you got a cold or you got a flu or you felt for whatever 25 reason you needed to go see a doctor, who would you go 24 1 see? 2 A. Hallinan, Dr. Hallinan. 3 Q. Was he kind of your family doctor? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Was he also Gerald's family doctor? 6 A. Just him and I went to Hallinan. 7 Q. Gerald. 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. Why did Gerald go to Patel for the 10 condition __ 11 A. Well, Hallinan sent him to Patel to check his 12 heart. 13 Q. Okay. I got you. What kind of doctor is Dr. 14 Hallinan, just a general practitioner? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. You're doing better than me. 17 A. Good. 18 Q. When did you meet Tim Tobin for the first 19 time, that you recall? 20 A. When Debbie was in college and he came down 21 here with her to visit. 22 Q. To meet the parents for the __ 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Meet the parents? And then I understand that 25 would have been in __ do you remember when that was? 25 1 1994 maybe? 2 A. Just a school year is all I know. 3 Q. Was it shortly thereafter, then, that Debbie 4 and Tim got engaged to be married? 5 A. No. They __ I don't know. 6 Q. Did you like Tim? 7 A. Sure. 8 Q. Did Don and Rita like Tim? 9 A. Yes, very much. 10 Q. Obviously, Debbie liked him. 11 A. Yeah. I hope. 12 Q. We know from Tim's testimony that he brought 13 Deborah and Alyssa to Sheridan on February 1st of '98, 14 which I think was a Sunday, to meet Don and Rita, and 15 then Don and Rita brought Debbie and the baby home with 16 them for a period of time. If we understand that to be 17 the case, February 1st of '98, do you have any 18 recollection of when the last time was before February 19 1st that you would have had any contact with Tim or 20 Debbie? 21 A. No, because I got back in from New Mexico 22 January the 16th of that year. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. And I don't know much what else went on. 25 Q. So you left town again the winter of '97? 26 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. You and Gerald would have gone 3 from Gillette around November 1st of '97. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And headed south. 6 A. Wait a minute. He wasn't __ he was gone. He 7 had passed away. 8 Q. Okay. You're right. And I apologize for 9 that. After your husband died, did you __ do you 10 continue to go south in the winter? 11 A. I go to my youngest daughter's in New Mexico. 12 Q. New Mexico, Artesia. 13 A. Uh_huh. 14 Q. So Gerald died in March of '97. 15 A. Right. 16 Q. So, in November of '97, did you go down to 17 Artesia? 18 A. I think it was December. I waited till 19 December. 20 Q. Do you remember when in December you went to 21 New Mexico? 22 A. Probably around the 1st or 2nd. 23 Q. So early in December. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you have Christmas in 1997 down in 27 1 Artesia? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Christmas of '97, was that just you and 4 Peggy's family that celebrated Christmas there? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. None of the others, Neva and her husband or 7 nobody else came down to Artesia? 8 A. No. 9 Q. All right. And then you came back to Gillette 10 January 16 of '98. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Why did you come back? 13 A. I imagine they was getting tired of me. 14 Q. They kicked you out? 15 A. I just __ I don't know. I just did. 16 Q. It was just time to come home. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Between December of '97 when you went to 19 Artesia and January 16th, then, of '98 when you got 20 home, did you have any occasions where you talked to 21 Rita, for example, on the phone that you recollect? 22 A. Yes, about the Tuesday before they passed 23 away. 24 Q. Okay. Now, I'm talking __ 25 A. Before that? 28 1 Q. I'm talking between __ the time you were in 2 Artesia, New Mexico, did you ever have any phone calls 3 between you and Rita that you recollect? 4 A. Oh, yes. 5 Q. Do you remember any of those phone calls when 6 you were in Artesia before January 16th of '98 where 7 Rita expressed any concerns about Don or about his 8 mental health or his behavior or anything? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did she have any complaints at all, Rita, that 11 you recall, that you recollect that she made to you 12 while you were in Artesia? 13 A. No. 14 Q. You came back January 16th. And between then 15 and February 1st, did you become aware of any problems 16 that were going on in Don or Rita's life, including 17 mental problems that Don was having? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Did you see Don at all after you got back 20 January 16th of '98 up until his death? 21 A. Just when they came out to get me at the 22 airport. 23 Q. They picked you up on the 16th. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And brought you home? 29 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Did you see Don at any time alive after that 3 time, after they picked you up at the airport? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you ever talk to Don again at any time 6 after he and Rita picked you up at the airport on 7 January 16th that you recollect? 8 A. Yeah. 9 Q. You did talk to Don. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. When would you have spoken to Don? 12 A. It was about Tuesday before they passed away. 13 Q. All right. And we're going to get to that. 14 Did you ever see Rita again after she and Don picked you 15 up on the 16th? 16 A. No. 17 Q. And, again, did you ever talk to Rita at any 18 time after the 16th of January up until the time they 19 died? 20 A. Oh, yes. 21 Q. What was her habit? Did she generally call 22 you every day? 23 A. About 6:30 every night. 24 Q. At least it's every night, not every morning. 25 A. She knew better than that. 30 1 Q. That was her habit, to __ 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. __ call you about 6:30 every night? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. At any time, then, after you got back from 6 Artesia on the 16th up until the time of their deaths, 7 did Rita ever express to you any concerns she was having 8 about Don or his mental health? 9 A. Just about __ 10 Q. Was this on Tuesday again? 11 A. Yeah, morning. 12 Q. Well, let's break it down between __ let me 13 break it down further, then, for you, Flo. 14 MR. VICKERY: Tom, excuse me for 15 interrupting you before you do that. You, I think, had 16 asked about any witness statements or anything like 17 that. Here is a declaration that she prepared for me 18 that I brought. I don't have an extra copy. But I will 19 give that to you. 20 Do you remember when we did that? 21 THE DEPONENT: Yes. 22 MR. VICKERY: You may want to ask her 23 about that. 24 MR. GORMAN: We can do that. 25 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Let me break it down to make 31 1 that easier, Flo. Don and Rita picked you up on the 2 16th of January '98 at the Gillette airport. 3 A. Right. 4 Q. After that date up until Tuesday before his 5 death, you had no conversations either face to face or 6 by phone with Don. 7 A. No. 8 Q. True? 9 A. True. 10 Q. Okay. And then after January 16, '98, up 11 until Tuesday immediately preceding their deaths, it was 12 generally your habit to talk to Rita at least once a day 13 by phone. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you remember anytime from January 16, '98, 16 up until that Tuesday immediately preceding their death 17 you and Rita ever seeing each other face to face? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Were all of your contacts by phone? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And at no time during that period of time did 22 Rita tell you about any problems Don was having with his 23 mental health. Is that true? Up through January 16th 24 to that Tuesday immediately preceding their death. 25 A. Now, how did you place that question? 32 1 Q. Did Rita ever express to you any concerns or 2 problems she felt Don was having regarding his mental 3 health? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Tell me about the Tuesday, then, before their 6 deaths. You said you talked to Don? 7 A. I talked to Rita that morning. 8 Q. Let's see. I understand Don and Rita died on 9 the 13th of February. 10 A. Right. 11 Q. And that was a Friday? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. So we're talking like on the 10th of February? 14 A. Well, it was the Tuesday before the Friday, 15 so __ 16 Q. Okay. And you talked to Rita in the morning? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Can you remember what time it was, 19 approximately? 20 A. Probably about 10:30. 21 Q. Okay. It was before noon. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And did Rita call you or did you call Rita, or 24 do you remember? 25 A. I can't remember that. 33 1 Q. Tell me what you remember about the phone 2 call, then, you and Rita had on the 10th, February 10th, 3 about then, whatever that Tuesday is. 4 A. All she said is that they had been to the 5 doctor and they had changed his medicine, and then she 6 was so glad that he wasn't going to have to take so many 7 pills and he was just going into one or two. 8 Q. Did she tell you which doctor they had been 9 to? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And you said that they changed his medicine 12 and that she was so glad that he wasn't going to have to 13 take so many pills. 14 A. Right. 15 Q. Was Don taking a lot of pills around this 16 time? 17 A. I don't know. 18 Q. Did you ask Rita any questions about what she 19 said, what do you mean Don was not going to have to take 20 so many pills? 21 A. I didn't ask. 22 Q. Did she tell you what she and Don had been to 23 the doctor for __ 24 A. No. 25 Q. __ for what reason? Okay. So you didn't 34 1 know. 2 A. No. 3 Q. All right. Did she say anything about when 4 Don was scheduled to return to the doctor? 5 A. No. 6 Q. How long did this conversation last? 7 A. Not over ten minutes. 8 Q. Have you told me everything that you and Rita 9 talked about during that conversation that involved Don? 10 A. As far as I can remember, yes. 11 Q. Did she say anything about Don acting funny or 12 Don's behavior being anything unusual, anything like 13 that? 14 A. No. 15 Q. You said then you also talked to Don on that 16 Tuesday? 17 A. Afternoon. 18 Q. Do you remember what time it was in the 19 afternoon you talked to Don? 20 A. I don't remember, but I called over to talk to 21 Debbie, and he said that she was getting the baby to 22 sleep. 23 Q. Was this a call that took place in the middle 24 of the afternoon, roughly, or right after lunch or right 25 before __ 35 1 A. It was after lunch. 2 Q. Was it anywhere near the dinner hour? 3 A. About the middle of the afternoon. 4 Q. Okay. Midafternoon. And you called the house 5 and Don answered the phone. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And Don said __ you asked if you could talk to 8 Debbie. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And Don said, "Well, she's trying to get the 11 baby to go to sleep." 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What other conversation did you have with Don 14 at that time? 15 A. Not any, because his voice was quivering so 16 bad, I don't know __ I didn't talk to him. 17 Q. What do you mean "his voice was quivering so 18 bad"? 19 A. Well, it was unusual for Don to talk that way. 20 Q. And can you explain to me what kind of __ what 21 do you mean it was un __ 22 A. It was slow and acting like he was going to 23 cry or something. 24 Q. Like when a person starts to cry? 25 A. Right. 36 1 Q. Did you ask him what was wrong? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Did you ask him anything about his doctor's 4 appointment? 5 A. No. 6 Q. So you didn't ask him, "Don, what's wrong?" 7 A. No. 8 Q. So you just let it go. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. How long did this conversation last? Seconds, 11 then, I assume. 12 A. Seconds. 13 Q. And then did you ever talk to Don again? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Did you ever talk to Rita again? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. Did you ever call over to the house 18 prior to February 13th in an effort to try to contact or 19 talk to Rita? 20 A. I called a time or two the 13th, but __ 21 Q. Okay. Before that. 22 A. No. 23 Q. Anytime after this 10th __ 24 A. No. 25 Q. __ before the 13th? Okay. 37 1 Did you ever, prior to this __ and you're sure 2 it was on that Tuesday and you're positive that Rita 3 told you that they had been to the doctor, or did 4 Rita __ could Rita have said, "We are going to the 5 doctor"? 6 A. They had been. 7 Q. You're certain the call was on Tuesday. 8 A. As much as I can remember, it was. 9 Q. Did you ever tell anyone about, prior to the 10 13th, about this call that you had with Don, however 11 short it was, where it was apparent to you in the way he 12 talked, quivering so bad, did you ever tell anybody 13 about that conversation that you had? 14 A. I don't remember. 15 Q. Did Rita ever talk to you at all about her 16 real estate business in any detail? 17 A. Not really. 18 Q. Did Rita ever talk to you or counsel with you 19 about any real estate __ problems in her business she 20 was having around this February 1998 time frame in terms 21 of real estate deals that had gone bad or anything like 22 that? 23 A. I don't remember. 24 Q. Did you ever get to talk to Debbie during this 25 period of time when they were in Gillette, February 1st 38 1 through the 13th? 2 A. After I had called Don and she was getting the 3 baby to sleep, well, the next day, afternoon, she came 4 over, her and the baby. 5 Q. Okay. She and Debbie came to your house? 6 A. Debbie and the baby. 7 Q. Right. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. I said that wrong. And did they drive 10 themselves over there? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. How did Debbie seem? 13 A. Real good. 14 Q. Was she sick? 15 A. She had been. 16 Q. But she was better? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did Debbie tell you why they were in town or 19 why they had extended their stay at Don and Rita's? 20 A. Debbie was still sick. I mean, she was sick 21 the weekend before when Tim came down, and she was still 22 sick, so she didn't go back. 23 Q. Okay. Did Debbie __ she wasn't sick when she 24 saw you, though. She was over it? 25 A. She was pretty much over it. 39 1 Q. Did Debbie say anything to you that next 2 afternoon, and let's say it's Wednesday, the 11th, about 3 this visit that her mother and her father had taken to 4 the doctor the day before? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Or any problems Don was having? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Or the fact that one of the reasons she and 9 the baby were there in Gillette and stayed in Gillette 10 for as long as they did was to try to help her father 11 get over a depression? Did she say anything like that? 12 A. I didn't know that. 13 Q. She didn't tell you that, anyway. 14 A. No. 15 Q. How long did Debbie and the baby stay at your 16 house, then, the next afternoon, on the 11th? 17 A. About 30 minutes. 18 Q. And, again, this whole period of time, nobody 19 said anything to you about Don's mental state. 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did you see either Debbie or the baby ever 22 again? 23 A. No. 24 Q. When Don worked as a contract __ do you want 25 to take a little break? 40 1 A. Yeah. 2 MR. GORMAN: Okay. Just tell me 3 whenever. Okay? 4 (Deposition proceedings recessed 1:21 5 p.m. to 1:28 p.m.) 6 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Andy now tells us that it 7 could have been Tuesday, maybe Wednesday that you 8 spoke. Whenever it was, it was after Don and Rita had 9 been to see the physician to get some medication. 10 A. Right. 11 Q. Whether that's on Tuesday or Wednesday of that 12 week. 13 A. Uh_huh. 14 Q. Yes? 15 A. Uh_huh. 16 MR. VICKERY: That's a yes. No "uh_huh" 17 keys on that machine. 18 THE DEPONENT: I'm sorry. 19 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) All right. Whenever that 20 date, you talked to Don, you think, the afternoon he had 21 been to the doctor. 22 A. Now, I really don't know. 23 Q. Well, whatever __ 24 A. I can't remember. 25 Q. Whatever afternoon that was. 41 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. It was either Tuesday or Wednesday of that 3 week. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And you say his __ you thought that 6 conversation was about midafternoon and his voice was 7 quivering, shaky and quivering so bad like you had never 8 heard him talk before. 9 A. Right, right. 10 Q. Right? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. And at that point, you didn't ask him what was 13 wrong. 14 A. No. 15 Q. Now, when Debbie came over the next 16 afternoon __ 17 A. Right. 18 Q. __ now, that will either be __ and you're sure 19 now that's the day after you visited with Don on the 20 phone when his voice was quivering? 21 A. I can't remember. I can't remember if she 22 came over after I talked to him and had the baby to 23 sleep or if it was the next afternoon. After a shock 24 like that, I don't remember. 25 Q. I understand. I understand. But what I need 42 1 to understand, Debbie and the baby came over __ 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. __ to your house. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. So, it wasn't Debbie that came over by 6 herself. 7 A. No. 8 Q. So, if, when you talked to Don and his voice 9 was quivery, Debbie was putting the baby to sleep __ 10 A. Right. 11 Q. __ well, it was sometime after that because 12 for sure the baby was awake when she came over. Right? 13 A. Oh, yes. 14 Q. Was it in the daytime? Was the sun up when 15 Debbie and the baby came over? 16 A. Right. 17 Q. All right. Was it afternoon, after lunch? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Was it before dinner? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. So if we use that, in all likelihood, 22 Debbie and the baby came over in the afternoon, then, 23 the afternoon after, the next afternoon after you spoke 24 with Don. Would that be a fair assumption? 25 A. I don't remember. 43 1 Q. Now, was it Rita's habit when you were in 2 Gillette to call you every day at 6:00, about 6:30? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And so, you would have talked to her, for 5 example __ when you got back, you would have spoken with 6 her every day at 6:30 up until the 1st of February. 7 A. Not really. 8 Q. I thought you said it was her habit to call 9 you every day at 6:30. 10 A. Well, Sundays she didn't, and Saturdays 11 sometimes she did and sometimes she didn't. And that 12 was about it. 13 Q. Okay. So on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 14 Thursday or Friday of any particular week, it generally 15 was her habit to call you at 6:30. 16 A. Right. 17 Q. Saturday, sometimes she would, sometimes she 18 wouldn't. 19 A. Right. 20 Q. And Sunday is it generally she didn't call 21 you? 22 A. Didn't. 23 Q. Now, if we say Monday is the 9th of 24 February __ okay? We know Don and Rita died on Friday 25 the 13th. 44 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay? So Thursday is the 12th. Wednesday is 3 the 11th. Tuesday is the 10th. Monday is the 9th. It 4 would have been Rita's custom to have called you at 6:30 5 in the evening. 6 A. I can't remember that day. 7 Q. Well, if she followed her normal habit __ 8 A. Well, there would be once in while when she 9 wouldn't to it, if she's busy. 10 Q. If she followed her normal habit and did call 11 you, you don't recall on Monday Rita telling you 12 anything that would cause you to understand that Don was 13 having any kind of problem. True? 14 A. I don't remember that. 15 Q. You did talk to Rita the morning __ strike 16 that. When you talked to Rita and she told you that she 17 and Don had been to the doctor __ okay? 18 A. Now, wait. She didn't tell me that they had 19 been to the doctor. She just told me that the doctor 20 had gave him some new pills. 21 Q. When you talked to Rita __ and you said it was 22 about 10:30 either Tuesday morning or Wednesday morning, 23 whichever that date is. 24 A. Okay. 25 Q. Okay. And my notes could be wrong. So I need 45 1 to clear this up. You initially told me that Rita told 2 you they had been to the doctor, that they had changed 3 Don's medicine, she was glad that Don was not going to 4 have to be taking as many pills and was only going to 5 have to be taking one or two pills. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Now, do you remember now anything else about 8 that conversation? 9 A. No, I sure don't. 10 Q. Now, when you talked to Rita at 10:30 that 11 morning, whatever morning that was before their death, 12 did you also talk to Don at that time? 13 A. No. 14 Q. All right. Then in the afternoon of that day, 15 whatever day that is, the same day you talked to Rita 16 about the change in medication, which you said was about 17 midafternoon, and you got on the phone and you said that 18 conversation lasted seconds because Don's voice was 19 quivering and shaking so badly. 20 A. Right. 21 Q. Now, during that conversation you said that 22 lasted seconds, did you talk at any time to Rita during 23 that conversation? 24 A. No. 25 Q. And then either later that same afternoon or 46 1 the next afternoon, Debbie and the baby came to your 2 house. 3 A. Right. 4 Q. And spent about 30 minutes. 5 A. Right. 6 Q. And you never asked Debbie anything about __ 7 or never told her about this observation you made about 8 Don's voice, about quivering or shaking so bad or never 9 asked Debbie what's wrong with her dad. 10 A. No. 11 Q. In any of your discussions with Don before 12 that brief conversation you had with him that 13 midafternoon where his voice was quivering or shaking so 14 badly, had you ever heard Don speak like that on any 15 other occasion __ 16 A. No. 17 Q. __ that you have ever spoken with him? 18 A. No. 19 Q. This was something that was really new and 20 unusual for you? 21 A. Only time. 22 Q. Did you ever ask anybody what was wrong with 23 Don after that phone call you had with him? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Or did you ever tell anybody about this 47 1 experience you had with Don's voice being quivery and 2 shaky? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you ever tell Neva? 5 A. After the funeral. 6 Q. Well, okay. Before the funeral. 7 A. Huh_uh. 8 Q. Okay. Was that a no, you never did tell 9 Neva? You went uh_huh. 10 A. No. 11 Q. I am going to throw you back 30 years again 12 and get away from this subject for a while. Okay? 13 A. Good. 14 Q. Do you remember __ I think you said when you 15 learned that Rita was just out of high school and had 16 gotten pregnant, that that didn't cause any concerns 17 between you and Gerald. Did I hear you right? 18 A. No, it didn't cause __ it didn't __ 19 Q. What did Rita do when __ did Rita move out of 20 the house? 21 A. I don't remember. 22 Q. Okay. Do you remember if Gerald requested 23 that she leave the house? 24 A. No. 25 Q. He didn't or you don't recall that? 48 1 A. Not that I know of. 2 Q. Neva told us that she thought she immediately 3 moved out of the house and went to live with a friend of 4 hers here in Gillette. Do you remember that? 5 A. I sure didn't. 6 Q. Or do you remember, if that happened, any of 7 the circumstances about why that happened? 8 A. No, I sure don't. 9 Q. I understand that when Don married Rita, Don 10 was a Catholic, practicing Catholic at the time. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And did he insist that Rita join the church, 13 the Catholic church? 14 A. I don't know whether he did or not. 15 Q. Do you know any of the circumstances 16 surrounding why Rita joined the church? 17 A. Because he wanted her to, I guess. I don't 18 know. 19 Q. Do you know, was Don a controlling person? Do 20 you know what I mean by that? Did Don like to control 21 Rita? 22 A. Not that I know of. 23 Q. Did Rita have to be home at a particular time, 24 and, if she wasn't, did Don get upset with that? Do you 25 know anything about that? 49 1 A. No, I don't. 2 Q. Do you know any rules that Don had in his 3 house about phone calls coming into the house after a 4 certain time at night? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Or people coming to his home after a certain 7 time at night? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Or problems with people parking in front of 10 his house? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Just so I understand now, if Don and Rita went 13 to the doctor and got some new medication, and let's 14 just say that's on the 11th, two days before, two days 15 before their death, do I understand that you had one 16 conversation with Rita that day and that was about 10:30 17 and one conversation with Don that day, and then that is 18 the last you ever spoke with either Don or Rita? 19 A. Right. 20 Q. And then either later that same afternoon or 21 on the next afternoon, you saw Debbie and the baby. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And then you never had any phone calls with 24 Rita on the 12th? 25 A. No. 50 1 Q. Or on the 13th. 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you know of any mental illness that existed 4 in any of Don's family, immediate family? 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q. You don't know of any? 7 A. Huh_uh. 8 MR. VICKERY: That's a no? 9 THE DEPONENT: No, sir. 10 MR. VICKERY: The man hasn't got that 11 "huh_uh" key down there. 12 MR. GORMAN: He does good. He can even 13 spell uh_huh right. I have seen it. 14 Q. (BY MR. GORMAN) Do you know, did Gerald, your 15 husband, Gerald __ 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. __ ever, to your knowledge, have any problems 18 with depression? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Certainly, then, he was never on any type of 21 antidepressant medication. 22 A. No. 23 Q. Have you ever had any problems with 24 depression? 25 A. Probably should have been, but no. 51 1 Q. You have never been on any __ 2 A. No. 3 Q. __ antidepressants. Do you know if any of 4 your children ever suffered from mental illness, 5 depression or were on antidepressants? 6 A. No. 7 Q. And, so, you're not aware of anytime in her 8 life that Rita was on antidepressants. 9 A. No. 10 Q. Or Neva? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Or Peggy? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you ever have any discussions that you 15 recall at any time with Rita about the presence of guns 16 in their home? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you have any discussions at any time that 19 you recall with Don about the presence of guns in their 20 house? 21 A. Not with Don, but my husband had gave Mike a 22 gun before he passed away; otherwise, I don't know 23 anything about it. 24 Q. What kind of gun did your husband give Mike? 25 Do you remember? 52 1 A. It was a big, long one. I don't know. 2 Q. A rifle? 3 A. Yeah. 4 Q. Not a handgun but a rifle? 5 A. Oh, oh, no. It was a rifle, hunting gun. 6 Q. Did Don hunt, do you know? 7 A. I think once in a while. 8 Q. Do you know what kind of hunting he did? 9 A. Antelope and deer. 10 Q. Did Rita ever express to you any concerns 11 about having guns in their house? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you know where Don kept his guns? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Do you know what kind of guns Don owned? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you know Father Ogg? 18 A. Just around the funeral. I don't know him 19 personally. 20 Q. Do you know anything about the relationship 21 Don and/or Rita had with Father Ogg over the years? 22 A. Real good. 23 Q. He was their parish priest, obviously. 24 A. Right. 25 Q. Did he serve any functions other than their 53 1 parish priest that you knew of? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Did Rita, for example, ever tell you that she 4 and/or Don had gone to Father Ogg for any counseling? 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q. She never mentioned it to you __ 7 A. No. 8 Q. __ if she did, or, if they did, what the 9 counseling was for? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Friday the 13th __ and, again, if you need a 12 break, I want you to tell me. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. When did you become aware that something may 15 be wrong? Do you remember? 16 A. No. The only time I knew it was when Rita __ 17 or Neva and Bob came over and told me. 18 Q. All right. And that was at night. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Prior to that, prior to Neva and Bob coming to 21 tell you, did you see Tim at all that day? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. Tell me when you recollect first seeing 24 Tim on the 13th. 25 A. He had drove down from Billings and couldn't 54 1 find them. Their house was locked up and he couldn't 2 find them. He came over to the house and thought maybe 3 that they were there. And then he __ then I said no, 4 that they hadn't been there that day. And I said, did 5 you see if __ first he __ I said, well, go around to all 6 the cafes and see if they was at a cafe somewhere eating 7 dinner. And he did. 8 And then he came back. And then I said, 9 "Well, was their car in the garage?" And he went 10 over. I guess when I said that, that's it. I don't 11 remember. He didn't have __ he never did come back. 12 Q. Did Tim just come to your house once that you 13 recall or twice that afternoon? 14 A. I can't remember. 15 Q. He comes to your house the first time and he 16 wonders if you had seen them and you suggested that he 17 go look around the cafes. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Do you have a recollection of about what time 20 that was, Flo? 21 A. It had to be about 6:00, 6:30, something like 22 that. 23 Q. And do you think that was the first time that 24 you saw Tim that day? 25 A. Yes. 55 1 Q. Okay. And then he left again. I assume in 2 his own car. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And then did he come back a second time, then, 5 or was he just at your house once, if you recall? 6 A. He came back the second time. And I said, 7 "Have you checked the car in the garage?" 8 Q. If he was at your house the first time around 9 six or so, do you know __ can you give me an approximate 10 time as to when it was he came back the second time? 11 A. About 15 minutes maybe. 12 Q. So sometime before 6:30. 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. Now, anytime during that day up until six 15 o'clock or whenever it was you first saw Tim, did you 16 have any __ did you try to call Rita at all during that 17 day that you remember? 18 A. Maybe once or twice. 19 Q. And you would have called her where, at home 20 or at work? 21 A. I don't remember. 22 Q. Okay. Do you have any recollection as you sit 23 here today of ever calling her work number and being 24 told, "Well, she's not at work," or, "She didn't show up 25 today," or anything like that? 56 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did anybody to your recollection from __ did 3 anybody that day call you __ 4 A. No. 5 Q. __ and say, "Hey, where is Rita? We haven't 6 seen her," or, "We're trying to get hold of Rita"? Did 7 anybody, anybody from her work, Bob, Neva's husband, 8 anybody call you? 9 A. No. 10 Q. So, Tim shows up, asks if you have seen them? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. It was around the dinner hour. And you 13 suggested that he go out and look around the cafes. 14 A. Right. 15 Q. He comes back and says, "I didn't find them." 16 A. Right. 17 Q. And you say, "Well, have you checked in the 18 garage?" 19 A. Right. 20 Q. And this is about 6:15 or so, 6:20. 21 A. Probably. 22 Q. And so, he leaves the house then to go, you 23 assume, back over to Don and Rita's. 24 A. Right. 25 Q. And he doesn't come back again. 57 1 A. No. 2 Q. And the next contact you have with this 3 tragedy is when Bob and Neva come to your house. 4 A. Right. 5 Q. Dr. Hallinan is there and you learn of the 6 situation. 7 A. Right. 8 Q. You had no other calls with anybody or no 9 other conversations or contacts from anybody about that 10 at any other time __ 11 A. No. 12 Q. __ that evening. 13 All right. Did you have a cell phone? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you remember, did you give your cell phone 16 to Tim? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Is this the first time he showed up at your 19 house or the second time that you gave him your cell 20 phone? 21 A. Second time. 22 Q. Okay. When you told him to go check to see if 23 the car was in the garage. 24 A. Right. 25 Q. Did Tim ever call you using your own cell 58 1 phone that night, do you know? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you remember what your cell phone number 4 was? 5 A. Huh_uh. 6 Q. That's fine. 7 A. I mean no. 8 Q. Now, that's a hard one to spell. Was it Bob 9 and Neva who told you then that evening what happened? 10 A. Right. 11 Q. Were you ever involved then, Flo, in any of 12 the investigation into the deaths? Were you ever 13 interviewed by the police? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Tell me, prior to February 13th of '98, when 16 was the last time you had any personal contact with 17 Mike? 18 A. Before the 13th? 19 Q. Yes. Do you remember when it was? 20 A. Huh_uh. 21 Q. Do you know if he was home for Christmas in 22 '97, Christmas of '97? Well, you weren't there, so __ 23 A. Yeah. 24 Q. Did you have any contact with Mike between 16 25 January and the date Rita and Don were killed? 59 1 A. No. 2 Q. Either you never saw him or you never had any 3 phone contacts. 4 A. No. 5 Q. I'm going to ask you if you know some people. 6 I think I asked you. You don't know Kevin Nelson? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you know a Vicky Sandau? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Or a Nita Reinerts, R_e_i_n_e_r_t_s? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Does that name ring a bell? Do you know a 13 Shirley Pettigrew? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Who is Shirley Pettigrew? 16 A. She just worked up there at the ERA, but I 17 didn't know her at that time. I have met her at bingo 18 in the last three, four weeks. 19 Q. So Shirley Pettigrew is somebody that worked 20 with Rita? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Have you and Shirley Pettigrew ever talked 23 about the situation surrounding the events immediately 24 before Don and Rita's death? 25 A. No. 60 1 Q. Or about any telephone calls she may have had 2 with Rita the night before the deaths? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you know Barb Trenholm? 5 A. Of her. 6 Q. And what do you know about Barb? 7 A. She just works down at ERA. 8 Q. Again, have you had any discussions with Barb 9 about any of her knowledge concerning the facts and 10 circumstances of the few days before Rita's death? 11 A. No. 12 Q. How about Sherry McGrath? 13 A. Yeah, I know her. 14 Q. Who is she? 15 A. She works down at ERA. 16 Q. Was she Rita's boss? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Or Rita was her own boss, I guess. 19 A. I think so. 20 Q. Have you had any discussions with Sherry about 21 any of the events __ 22 A. No. 23 Q. __ surrounding this? Do you know Vernon 24 Brown? 25 A. No. 61 1 Q. He's a neighbor of Don and Rita's. 2 A. Yeah, but I don't know him. 3 Q. You haven't talked with him __ 4 A. No. 5 Q. __ at all about what he knows about the days 6 leading up to this? 7 A. No. 8 Q. How about George and Betty Smith? Do you know 9 those people? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Who are they? 12 A. Betty is a nurse and he just works in 13 carpentry. 14 Q. Were they friends of Don's and Rita's? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Have George or Betty talked to you or shared 17 with you any of the knowledge they may have about events 18 in the days preceding Rita's death? 19 A. No. 20 Q. A couple of things and I'm about done. 21 A. Okay. Good. 22 Q. I'm running out of gas. Are you aware that, 23 sometime before Don and Rita passed away, that they had 24 written out very specific instructions in a notebook 25 about how their funerals were to be conducted, who were 62 1 to be their pallbearers, where they were to be buried 2 and how their personal effects were to be disposed of? 3 Do you know anything about that? 4 A. Only after their death. 5 Q. Okay. Did you ever see those books or that 6 book? 7 A. I don't remember. 8 Q. And the reason I ask this is, do you know when 9 they prepared those instructions? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Do you know the circumstances surrounding why 12 they wrote out those instructions? 13 A. Well, when Gerald passed away, I didn't have 14 anything fixed, and I guess maybe it kind of scared them 15 into fixing theirs so they wouldn't be in the position 16 like I was. 17 Q. Is that your understanding or are you just 18 guessing about that? 19 A. Just guessing. 20 Q. Did Rita ever tell you or Don ever tell you 21 that's what they were going to do? 22 A. No. 23 Q. But you think it was after your husband's 24 death. 25 A. Yes. 63 1 Q. And you told us that you have not read Dr. 2 Patel's notes about his visit with Don and Rita, and his 3 note is dated February 11th of '98. You have not seen 4 those notes. True? 5 A. No. 6 Q. I want to know if anybody, Rita particularly, 7 or anybody else, ever told you anything about some of 8 the information that __ anything that would cause you to 9 think that Don was having any kind of problems with 10 these things. Do you know if Don was having trouble 11 falling to sleep and then sleeping through the night? 12 A. No. 13 Q. You don't know? 14 A. No, I __ 15 Q. Never heard of that. 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you know if Don ever said or expressed 18 feelings that others would be better off if he were 19 dead, most or all of the time? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did you ever hear Don say that or Rita say 22 that or anybody else say that, that Don had said that? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Or anything remotely close to that? 25 A. No. 64 1 Q. At least this note, Dr. Patel's note, says 2 that Don says that he had a lot of family problems at 3 one time. Do you know anything about family problems he 4 had? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Don also told Dr. Patel this, and I need to 7 ask you if you know anything about this. He says that, 8 quote: He is trying to keep his wife and mother_in_law 9 together. Do you know, were you and Rita having any 10 kind of problems around this time? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you know of any problems around __ strike 13 that. Do you know of any problems at all that Don had 14 with your husband at any time that you can recollect? 15 A. No. 16 Q. At any time prior to her death, did Rita ever 17 tell you or did anyone else ever share with you any 18 information about comments or __ comments, I guess, that 19 Don was making about Gerald that were not kind or were 20 negative in any way? Did anybody ever tell you anything 21 like that? 22 A. No. 23 Q. You never knew anything about that. 24 A. No. 25 MR. GORMAN: Okay. That's all I have, 65 1 Flo. Thank you. And I apologize for upsetting you. 2 THE DEPONENT: That's all right. 3 MR. VICKERY: Let me ask you one quick 4 thing. 5 EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. VICKERY: 7 Q. In the written declaration that we have given 8 to Mr. Gorman, you said in there that __ let me read it 9 to you, the sentence I want to ask you about. And this 10 is talking about the conversation you had with Don when 11 he was shaky. 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. You said, quote: Rita got on the phone and 14 told me the doctor has just changed Don's medication to 15 Paxil. 16 Do you recall her specifically telling you 17 that his medication was changed to Paxil? 18 A. When she __ no, not specifically what the 19 medicine was, no. 20 Q. You didn't know that it was Paxil? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. 23 MS. HARDY: May I see a copy of that? 24 MR. GORMAN: Are you done, Andy? 25 MR. VICKERY: Let me show it to you, or 66 1 maybe he's wants to show it to you. 2 Do you want to mark it? 3 MR. GORMAN: No, I'm not going to mark 4 it. I'm going to ask Flo. 5 EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. GORMAN: 7 Q. Is this something you wrote out? Who wrote 8 this out? 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Did you write it out? 11 A. I just signed it. 12 Q. All right. Is this something that you wrote 13 out or is this something that somebody prepared for you 14 and asked you to sign? 15 A. Somebody else wrote it. 16 MR. GORMAN: Okay. That's all I have. 17 EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. VICKERY: 19 Q. No curious thing about it. I'm the one that 20 wrote it after I asked you what you remembered, aren't 21 I? Didn't I send it to you and ask you if that's what 22 you remembered? 23 MS. HARDY: We had a conversation at 24 the __ 25 MR. PREUSS: Wait a minute. 1 MR. GORMAN: You're not on record 2 anymore. 3 MS. HARDY: Okay. 4 A. I really don't know, because after it 5 happened, I flipped. 6 MR. GORMAN: And I understand that. 7 MR. VICKERY: Okay. That's all. I 8 don't have anything else.