1 NO. 90-CI-6033 JEFFERSON CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION ONE (1) 2 3 JOYCE FENTRESS, ET AL. PLAINTIFFS 4 5 VS. DEPOSITION FOR PLAINTIFFS 6 7 SHEA COMMUNICATIONS, ET AL. DEFENDANTS 8 * * * * * * * * * * 9 10 DEPONENT: CHRISTY HOFFMAN 11 DATE: NOVEMBER 18, 1993 12 13 * * * * * * * * * * 14 15 16 REPORTER: KATHY NOLD 17 18 KENTUCKIANA REPORTERS SUITE 260 19 730 WEST MAIN STREET LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 20 (502) 589-2273 Page 1 1 * * * * * * * * * * 2 3 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA 4 INDIANAPOLIS DIVISION 5 IN RE ELI LILLY AND COMPANY ) Prozac Products Liability ) MDL Docket No. 907 6 Litigation ) 7 * * * * * * * * * * 8 NO. 91-02496-A 9 JACKIE LYNN BIFFLE, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT ) COURT OF 10 V. ) DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS ) 11 ELI LILLY & COMPANY AND ) 14TH JUDICIAL DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY ) DISTRICT 12 * * * * * * * * * * Page 2 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 DR. MARIUS SAINES, etc., et al., ) Case No: 4 ) SC 008331 Plaintiffs, ) 5 ) vs. ) 6 ) ELI LILLY & COMPANY, a corporation; ) 7 DISTA PRODUCTS COMPANY, a division ) of Eli Lilly & Company; and DOBS 1- ) 8 100, inclusive, ) ) 9 Defendants. ) ____________________________________) 10 11 * * * * * * * * * * Page 3 1 2 THE DEPOSITION OF CHRISTY HOFFMAN TAKEN AT 3 THE OFFICE OF BOEHL, STOPHER & GRAVES, 400 WEST 4 MARKET STREET, LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, 40202, ON 5 NOVEMBER 18, 1993; SAID DEPOSITION TAKEN PURSUANT 6 TO NOTICE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES OF CIVIL 7 PROCEDURE. 8 * * * * * * * * * * 9 A P P E A R A N C E S 10 11 RENE MORTIMER COUNSEL FOR GROUP A PLAINTIFFS 12 LEONARD M. RING AND ASSOCIATES, P.C. 111 WEST WASHINGTON AVENUE, SUITE 1333 13 CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60602 14 LAWRENCE J. MYERS COUNSEL FOR ELI LILLY AND COMPANY 15 FREEMAN & HAWKINS 4000 ONE PEACHTREE CENTER 16 303 PEACHTREE STREET, N.E. ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30308-3243 17 MARGARET M. HUFF 18 ELI LILLY AND COMPANY LILLY CORPORATE CENTER 19 INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA 46285 20 B. HUME MORRIS COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS 21 STARKS BUILDING LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 22 WILLIAM J. NOLD 23 COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS 730 WEST MAIN STREET 24 LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY 40202 Page 4 1 I N D E X 2 3 DEPOSITION OF CHRISTY HOFFMAN 4 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. MORTIMER 6 6 CERTIFICATE 277 7 ERRATA 278 8 9 EXHIBITS 10 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 1 11 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 2 90 11 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 3 128 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 4 150 12 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 5 152 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 6 234 13 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 7 237 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 8 241 14 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 9 248 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 10 250 15 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 11 256 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 12 257 16 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 13 263 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 14 265 17 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 15 270 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 16 270 18 PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 17 272 Page 5 1 2 COMES CHRISTY HOFFMAN, CALLED BY 3 THE PLAINTIFF, AND AFTER FIRST BEING DULY SWORN, 4 WAS DEPOSED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MS. MORTIMER: 7 Q. Would you state your name and 8 spell your last name for the record, please? 9 A. My name is Christy Hoffman, 10 H-O-F-F-M-A-N. 11 Q. M-A-N? 12 A. Yes. 13 MS. MORTIMER: Let the record reflect 14 this is the discovery deposition of Christy 15 Hoffman taken pursuant to notice and in 16 accordance with all the applicable local and 17 state rules of procedure, this is also taken by 18 agreement. 19 Q. Have you ever given a 20 deposition before? 21 MR. MYERS: Hold on. First, there is 22 not a formal notice. She's here by agreement 23 though, there's not a notice of deposition out 24 but she's obviously here by agreement, she's Page 6 1 happy to be here by agreement. 2 MS. MORTIMER: Well, I accept that. 3 MR. MYERS: But there's not a notice. 4 Go ahead, I'm sorry. 5 MS. MORTIMER: I don't think I said 6 there was. 7 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Have you 8 ever given a deposition before? 9 A. No. 10 Q. I'm going to lay a few ground 11 rules for you and you're doing fine. What we are 12 going to be doing is asking you a series of 13 questions. I ask that before you give an answer, 14 you wait until I've asked the question, that way 15 we're not talking at the same time and it's a lot 16 easier for the court reporter, okay? 17 A. (Witness moves head up and 18 down.) 19 Q. And you also, instead of 20 nodding, have to say yes or no. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Because the court reporter 23 can't take down a nod or an uh-huh or uh-uh 24 because it just doesn't come out well on the Page 7 1 record, okay? 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. Also, make sure that you 4 understand the question before you answer it. If 5 you ever have a question, if you need me to 6 clarify something, if you think there's something 7 that you don't understand, let me know and I'll 8 do what I can to accommodate you. Otherwise, if 9 you give an answer, I'll assume you understood 10 the question, okay? 11 A. Okay. 12 Q. How old are you, Ms. Hoffman? 13 A. Twenty-six years old. 14 Q. What's your date of birth? 15 A. 6-19-67. 16 Q. Have you always gone by Christy 17 Hoffman or is that your married name? 18 A. That's my married name. 19 Q. What's your maiden name? 20 A. Christine Kammer, K-A-M-M-E-R. 21 Q. Have you ever gone by any other 22 names other than Hoffman or Kammer? 23 A. No. 24 Q. What's your social security Page 8 1 number? 2 A. XXXXXXXXXX. 3 Q. Where do you currently reside? 4 A. My address? 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 7 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. 8 Q. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX? 9 A. XXXXXXXXXXX. 10 Q. How long have you lived there? 11 A. In that residence, about three 12 months -- two months rather. 13 Q. Who do you live there with? 14 A. My husband. 15 Q. What's his name? 16 A. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. 17 Q. Who else do you live there 18 with, if anyone? 19 A. My dog. 20 Q. Where did you live before you 21 lived on XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX? 22 A. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 23 XXXXXXXXXXXXXX. 24 Q. In XXXXXXXXXX as well? Page 9 1 A. XXXXXXXXXXX. 2 Q. How long did you live there? 3 A. Approximately two and a half 4 years. 5 Q. Who did you live there with? 6 A. My husband. 7 Q. Have you reviewed any documents 8 today in preparation for your deposition? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What documents have you 11 reviewed? 12 A. Just my notes regarding Doctor 13 Coleman. 14 MR. MYERS: To keep on the record, this 15 is an additional two pages of notes in addition 16 to what we'd earlier produced to you that she 17 just gave to me yesterday, they're of the same 18 type, you can have those. 19 MS. MORTIMER: And what -- can you show 20 me what she looked at that she just identified, 21 is it just these two notes? 22 MR. MYERS: It's the other ones -- no 23 there are some that were produced, just a handful 24 of pages. This is my copy. I'll get you one. I Page 10 1 think there's four pages. 2 MS. MORTIMER: I have five. 3 MR. MYERS: Let me see, she's looked at 4 these. She's not looked at those, you can ask 5 her. 6 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) You've 7 identified notes that you looked at in 8 preparation for your deposition. Are the two 9 pages that I've just handed you the notes that 10 you referred to? 11 A. Correct, and those notes that 12 he gave you. 13 MS. MORTIMER: And we'll mark the four 14 pages as Hoffman Exhibit Number 1 for 15 identification and I'll talk to you about those 16 later. 17 A. Okay. 18 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 1 WAS 19 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 20 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 21 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Were any 22 statements or any documents read to you in 23 preparation for your deposition today? 24 A. No. Page 11 1 Q. Did you have a meeting this 2 morning -- 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. -- with anyone? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And who did you have a meeting 7 with, Mister Myers? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. How long was that meeting 10 approximately? 11 A. Half an hour. 12 Q. Other than meeting with Mister 13 Myers today, did you have any other meetings with 14 anyone else, either from Eli Lilly or Eli Lilly's 15 attorney with respect to this deposition today? 16 A. I spoke with Mary Huff and Ed 17 Stopher approximately a week ago for about an 18 hour and a half and I had spoken with Ed Stopher 19 several years ago briefly. 20 Q. About this litigation? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Do you remember approximately 23 when you spoke with Ed Stopher, approximately 24 several years ago, do you remember what year? Page 12 1 A. To the best of my recollection 2 it was about two and a half years ago. 3 Q. Did he call you or did you call 4 him? 5 A. He called me. 6 Q. I have to ask you this 7 question. Have you ever been convicted of a 8 felony or any crime of dishonesty? 9 A. No. 10 Q. What is your highest level of 11 education? 12 A. I have a B.S. degree in 13 business. 14 Q. Where did you get that degree? 15 A. Indiana University. 16 Q. After graduating -- well, when 17 did you graduate? 18 A. '89, May of '89. 19 Q. After graduating from Indiana 20 University, where did you work? 21 A. My first job was with Eli 22 Lilly. 23 Q. Did you interview on campus for 24 that job? Page 13 1 A. I interveiwed with Lilly once 2 on campus. 3 Q. With whom did you interview, do 4 you remember? 5 A. I don't recall the individual's 6 name. 7 Q. When you were in college, did 8 you take any courses in the medical school there 9 with respect to medicine or drugs? 10 A. I took some basic science 11 courses. 12 Q. Do you remember what they were? 13 A. Chemistry. 14 Q. Like a first level chemistry 15 course? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Like for freshmen? 18 A. Yes. And I took some other 19 science, introductory level science courses. 20 Q. Was this to meet your science 21 requirements to get your bachelor of science 22 degree? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you recall if any Page 14 1 introductory science courses, any of the courses 2 dealt with psychotropic drugs? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did any of the science courses 5 deal with psychiatry? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Did any of the courses that you 8 took at Indiana deal with prescribing drugs? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Approximately when did you 11 start working for Eli Lilly? 12 A. I was hired in September of '89 13 and I officially started training in 14 approximately the third week of October of 1989. 15 Q. What was your first job with 16 Eli Lilly? 17 A. Sales representative. 18 Q. Have you continuously worked 19 for Eli Lilly from the third week of October of 20 1989 to the present? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Have you remained a sales 23 representative with Eli Lilly until the present? 24 A. Yes. Page 15 1 Q. What's the hierarchy within 2 your department? In other words, what I'm trying 3 to get at is if you've been promoted from when 4 you first started to the present in any way, so I 5 guess I need to know the hierarchy to better 6 understand your answer. 7 MR. MYERS: Is the question whether 8 she's been promoted or what is the hierarchy or 9 both? 10 MS. MORTIMER: Both. 11 A. Repeat that one more time. 12 Q. Have you ever been promoted? 13 A. No. 14 Q. So your job has remained the 15 same and the duties with respect to your job have 16 remained the same from October of 1989 to the 17 present? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Is your employer Eli Lilly and 20 Company or is it Dista Products Company? 21 A. Dista Products Company is a 22 division of Lilly which -- it's one and the same. 23 Eli Lilly and Company is who I work for. 24 Q. That's the name of the entity Page 16 1 on your pay check? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. When you started at Eli Lilly 4 in October of '89, is that when you began your 5 training? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Where did you take this 8 training? 9 A. Indianapolis. 10 Q. Have you worked in Indianapolis 11 or out of an Indianapolis office for Eli Lilly as 12 a sales representative from the third week of 13 October of '89 to the present? 14 A. Ask again exactly what you 15 want. 16 Q. I'm trying to get at your 17 office, has it been always in Indianapolis, was 18 it ever in Indianapolis? 19 A. Indianapolis is the home 20 office. My office is actually out of my home, I 21 don't have an office that I go to. 22 Q. What's the address of the 23 Indianapolis office that you trained at? 24 A. I believe it's McCarty Street. Page 17 1 Q. Would you spell that for the 2 court reporter? 3 A. M-C space C-A-R-T-Y, Street. I 4 believe it's 39 McCarty. 5 Q. Who was in charge of the 6 training program that you participated in? 7 A. The sales training department. 8 Q. Was there someone who's the 9 head of that department when you trained there in 10 October of 1989? 11 A. I suppose. 12 Q. Do you know who that is? 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q. What was the training program, 15 if you could describe it for me? 16 A. It was about a four week 17 program, it was an intensive training program in 18 which we had a microbiology week where we learned 19 a lot about microbiology and then we had an 20 intensive three week course on all the different 21 products and classifications for which we would 22 be promoting. 23 MS. MORTIMER: Would you read that 24 back? Page 18 1 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 2 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 3 Q. So let me see if I got this 4 straight. Up until October or the third week of 5 October of 1989, you did not have any training or 6 you had not taken any courses in psychiatry or 7 psychotropic drugs or microbiology? 8 A. Yes, correct. 9 Q. So this four week training 10 program would have been your first experience 11 with any kind of psychotropic drugs and 12 microbiology, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you recall who else was 15 being trained in the same program that you were 16 being trained? 17 A. There was -- I don't recall 18 exact numbers, but about seventeen other Dista 19 representatives that I was in a class with. 20 Q. Is that what you call yourself, 21 a Dista representative? 22 A. Yes, that's the division that I 23 work for. 24 Q. Do all sales representatives Page 19 1 work for the Dista division? 2 A. No. 3 Q. If you're a sales 4 representative but you're not a Dista 5 representative, what are you called at Eli Lilly? 6 A. Either a Lilly representative 7 or you may be a Select Products representative or 8 a hospital representative. 9 Q. What are the duties of a Dista 10 representative, what were your duties when you 11 began in October of '89? 12 A. My job is a sales 13 representative, I'm a company representative to 14 call on physicians and detail my products. 15 Q. Did you only call on physicians 16 as opposed to hospitals and clinics? 17 A. I call on pharmacies and 18 physicians, primarily. 19 Q. Did you call on any other 20 medical providers other than pharmacies and 21 physicians? 22 A. There may be some physicians 23 that I saw in a hospital setting but they had an 24 office at the hospital, that's all. Page 20 1 Q. When you say physicians, does 2 that include general practitioners as well as 3 psychiatrists? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Other than general 6 practitioners and psychiatrists, what other types 7 of physicians do you call on in your job? 8 A. I call on ENTs. 9 Q. What are ENTs? 10 A. Ear, nose and throat 11 physicians. Pediatricians, internal medicine, 12 and some rheumatologists. 13 Q. How does your job as a Dista 14 representative differ from a Lilly 15 representative? 16 A. A Lilly representative has some 17 different products than we have and they call on 18 some different specialties of physicians and they 19 may call on different physicians that I do not 20 call on. 21 Q. What types of products did you 22 detail when you first started in 1989? 23 A. I detailed anti-depressant or 24 Prozac, Keftab. Page 21 1 Q. Would you spell that, please? 2 A. Keftab, K-E-F-T-A-B, and Axid, 3 A-X-I-D. 4 Q. You detailed those three drugs 5 only for a certain period of time? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. From -- what are the inclusive 8 dates that you detailed those three products? 9 A. I don't recall the exact dates 10 but for a period of time, I detailed those 11 products and then our responsibilities changed so 12 that I would promote Ceclor in place of Keftab, 13 and since then it's changed again where I do not 14 promote Ceclor but I promote Lorabid, 15 L-O-R-A-B-I-D, which is also an antibiotic. 16 Q. So Lorabid, Ceclor, and Keftab 17 are all antibiotics? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What is Axid? 20 A. It's an H-2 antagonist. 21 Q. And Prozac is what? 22 A. It's an antidepressant. 23 Q. What's the chemical name for 24 Prozac? Page 22 1 A. Fluoxetine. 2 Q. Do you recall the specifics of 3 the week during your training program where you 4 studied microbiology? Was it lectures or 5 videos or what was that specific training? 6 A. I don't recall specifically. 7 It was generally a program where we had some 8 videos, we had some slides, we had some lectures. 9 It was a combination of different teaching 10 techniques. 11 Q. Do you recall who your teacher 12 was? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you have to do home work or 15 did you have tests? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Did you have to turn in these 18 tests to any person? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. To whom did you turn in the 21 tests? 22 A. The instructor. 23 Q. Do you recall who that was? 24 A. No. Page 23 1 Q. Was it a man or woman? 2 A. It was a man. 3 Q. Do you recall if it was a 4 doctor? 5 A. No, not that I recall. 6 Q. A caucasian or black man or 7 Asian man, do you recall? 8 A. As I recall, he was a white 9 man. 10 Q. Is there a specific area within 11 Lilly on McCarty Street that's specifically used 12 by Lilly to train its Dista representatives? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Is there an office there? 15 A. There's just a division of 16 Lilly called the sales training division. 17 Q. Is that where you would report 18 to every morning during your training? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Did you have to sign in 21 anywhere? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did you receive a certificate 24 after the one week microbiology program? Page 24 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you receive any materials 3 such as pamphlets or dittos or handbooks or 4 anything during that first one week period? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you get to keep those 7 materials? 8 A. I think you could, I don't 9 recall if I kept all of them. 10 Q. Do you have them? 11 A. I don't have them right now. 12 Q. Do you have them at your home? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you know where they are? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Do you recall the names of the 17 other individuals who were being trained during 18 the time you were being trained in October of 19 1989? 20 A. No, I really don't. 21 Q. Would anything refresh your 22 recollection in that regard? 23 A. I guess if I saw a picture of 24 them maybe. Page 25 1 Q. Did you train with somebody 2 named Lisa Waddell? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you train with someone 5 named Lucy Mudd, M-U-D-D? 6 A. No. 7 Q. How about Ross Kushner? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Do you know who Lisa Waddell 10 is? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Who is she? 13 A. She's a psychiatric 14 representative in Louisville. 15 Q. What? 16 A. A psychiatry representative, 17 psych-only representative. 18 Q. And she currently works with 19 Lilly? 20 A. She works with Lilly, yes. 21 Q. Have you ever heard of Lucy 22 Mudd? 23 A. I've heard of her. 24 Q. Do you know who she is? Page 26 1 A. I don't know who she is. 2 Q. Have you ever met her? 3 A. No. 4 Q. To your knowledge, has Lucy 5 Mudd ever detailed Lilly products or Dista 6 Company products to Doctor Coleman? 7 A. I do not know. 8 Q. Have you ever heard of Ross 9 Kushner? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Who's he? 12 A. He was a former employee of 13 Lilly. He's also a pharmacist in town. 14 Q. I'm sorry? 15 A. He's also a pharmacist in town. 16 Q. In Louisville? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. Do you know where? 19 A. I know he used to be at a 20 K-Mart pharmacy. I don't know if that's still 21 where he is. 22 Q. That's the K-Mart in 23 Louisville? 24 A. Uh-huh. Page 27 1 Q. Is there only one? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Which side of town, if you 4 remember? 5 A. He was on Preston Highway. 6 Q. Do you know why he left Lilly? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Was he also a sales 9 representative? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Was he a Dista sales 12 representative? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did you work with him? 15 A. No. 16 Q. What office did he work out of, 17 what was the home office for him? 18 A. He was a sales representative 19 as well. 20 Q. So the Indianapolis home office 21 would be his home office, as well? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you know the name of anybody 24 who would know where he is now? Page 28 1 A. I suppose K-Mart might know 2 where he is. 3 Q. Other than K-Mart? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you have any personal 6 knowledge as to whether Ross Kushner detailed Eli 7 Lilly products to Doctor Coleman? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And what is that knowledge? 10 A. He detailed Doctor Coleman. 11 Q. Do you recall what period of 12 time he detailed Doctor Coleman? 13 A. The only knowledge that I have 14 is the notes from which Ross Kushner left, that 15 he had detailed Doctor Coleman? 16 Q. Did you give those notes to 17 your -- to the attorney for Eli Lilly? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Are those part of the notes 20 that you looked at today in preparation for the 21 deposition? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What types of products would 24 Lilly representatives detail that Dista Page 29 1 representatives would not? 2 MR. MYERS: At what point in time? 3 MS. MORTIMER: During the time that she 4 worked for Lilly. 5 A. They had at different times 6 when we had Keftab, they would have Ceclor and 7 then they also had Darvocet, and they also have 8 Humulin. 9 Q. Would you spell that for the 10 the court reporter? 11 A. H-U-M-U-L-I-N. 12 Q. Any other drugs that you recall 13 that Lilly representatives detailed that Dista 14 representatives did not when you worked for 15 Lilly? 16 A. Those are all that I recall. 17 Q. Would Lilly representatives 18 ever detail Prozac or Fluoxetine? 19 A. That was not their 20 responsibility. 21 Q. Why is that? 22 A. That was the Dista 23 representative's responsibility. 24 Q. Who gave out the assignments to Page 30 1 the various representatives? In other words who 2 decided that Lilly representatives would not 3 detail Prozac and Fluoxetine and Dista 4 representatives would? 5 A. I don't know who ultimately 6 made the decision, but I would think it would be 7 Indianapolis, the marketing department. 8 Q. Who gave you your assignment to 9 detail Fluoxetine or Prozac? 10 A. Be more specific. 11 Q. How did you get your assignment 12 to detail Fluoxetine and Prozac? 13 A. I was hired by my manager. 14 Q. Who's that? 15 A. My manager at that time was 16 Paul Frederick. 17 Q. Is he currently working for 18 Lilly? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What is his position at Lilly 21 currently? 22 A. He is a long term care hospital 23 rep. 24 Q. What is a long term care Page 31 1 hospital rep? 2 A. He deals with -- in the 3 hospital, the long-term care facilities. I don't 4 really know exactly what his job description is. 5 Q. And what department -- I may 6 have asked you this before, but what department 7 do Dista representatives work out of at Lilly? 8 A. The home office is at 9 Indianapolis. 10 Q. Is there a specific department 11 within the home office of Indianapolis from which 12 Dista representatives work? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Like a sales representative 15 department? 16 A. No. 17 Q. What specific office do you go 18 to when you go to the home office? 19 A. The only time that I go to the 20 home office would be when we had sales training 21 functions. 22 Q. And that would be in the same 23 area where you took your training in October of 24 '89, the sales training department? Page 32 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 3 whether the sales training department keeps a 4 record of the different sales training programs 5 and the individuals who participate in them? 6 A. I do not know. 7 Q. You also testified that other 8 than the one week of microbiology, you had a 9 three week course in the products and the 10 classifications for which you would be promoting 11 the products, is that true? 12 A. What I said was that we had one 13 week of microbiology training and the other three 14 weeks we had programs with regards to the 15 products which we would be promoting -- detailing 16 to the physicians, excuse me. 17 Q. Was that three week program 18 broken down by way of the three different drugs? 19 In other words did you have one week of Prozac 20 and Fluoxetine and another week of Keftab and 21 another week of Axid? 22 A. I don't remember the exact 23 itinerary of the sales training program. 24 Q. If you could describe that Page 33 1 three week program for me generally, what you do 2 remember? 3 A. Generally what I remember is 4 that we were trained on the products for which we 5 would be promoting, we were trained in basic 6 sales techniques, we were trained with procedures 7 within Indianapolis and it was a very intensive 8 three week program for which there were many 9 lectures, presentations, slide programs, videos, 10 it was a combination of different techniques. 11 Q. Did you receive any written 12 materials as part of this three week program? 13 A. We were given a lot of 14 materials at the program. 15 Q. What did you do with the 16 materials after the program was over? 17 A. The best I can recall, I kept 18 them for a while and I do not know where those 19 materials are. 20 Q. Do you know if the sales 21 training department has copies of the materials 22 they handed out to you when you were taking this 23 training program? 24 A. I do not know. Page 34 1 Q. Did you receive a certificate 2 after you completed the entire training program? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you have to take some sort 5 of state exam or any kind of federal exam to sell 6 or to detail these products to the various 7 medical providers? 8 A. There's no state or federal 9 exam. We did have an exam we took over each 10 product that we were trained on. 11 Q. I know that a lot of times when 12 I ask you questions, you're going to anticipate 13 what the question is and begin to answer. For 14 the court reporter's sake, wait until I finish 15 the question, even though you know what it's 16 going to be and then give your answer, okay? 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. Thanks. So Lilly gave you an 19 exam for every product, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. This is an exam that you would 22 have to turn in after you took it? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Where did you turn the exam Page 35 1 into? 2 A. To the instructor. 3 Q. And you don't recall the 4 instructor's name? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Was it a different instructor 7 for the three week program as opposed to the 8 microbiology program? 9 A. Not that I recall. 10 Q. You said that the three week 11 program consisted of being trained on products, 12 sales techniques, and procedures in the 13 Indianapolis office, correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Could you, if you can, break 16 down for me the percentage of time that you spent 17 being trained on the product as opposed to being 18 trained on sales techniques as opposed to being 19 trained on the procedures in Indianapolis? 20 A. To the best that I can recall, 21 most of the time was spent on training on the 22 products. 23 Q. Can you give me a percentage? 24 A. This is not an absolute but I Page 36 1 would estimate eighty percent. 2 Q. How much on sales techniques? 3 A. I would say less than ten 4 percent. 5 Q. What did the training on the 6 specific products consist of? 7 A. To the best of my knowledge, we 8 were taught about the different classifications 9 of drugs for which we would be promoting and more 10 specifically taught about the product for which 11 we would be promoting. We were taught about 12 where it was used, all the indicated -- package 13 indicated literature regarding the product, we 14 were given information and we were taught about 15 all the different -- the benefits of the product 16 and also the side effects, et cetera, of the 17 product. We were taught with each product those 18 types of information. 19 Q. During this training program, 20 were you made aware that you would be detailing 21 Prozac and Keftab and Axid, only, in the 22 beginning? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And because of that, during Page 37 1 this three week program, was the training limited 2 to the products of Prozac or Fluoxetine, Keftab, 3 and Axid? 4 A. It was a four week program, the 5 three weeks that we spent mainly on products was 6 those three products. 7 Q. So, other than the microbiology 8 section, during the section where you were 9 trained on the specific products that you would 10 be detailing, you were only trained on Prozac, 11 Keftab and Axid, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. You said that, and you 14 estimated that during the three weeks of training 15 after the microbiology week, you spent 16 approximately eighty percent of the time being 17 trained on the products that you would sell, 18 true? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Within that eighty percent, 21 approximately how much of your time was spent 22 being trained on Prozac or Fluoxetine? 23 A. Of that eighty percent of the 24 time, I would estimate probably about half. Page 38 1 Q. And why were you trained on 2 Prozac for more time than on Keftab and Axid, if 3 you know? 4 A. I don't really know, it was 5 just -- I would say because there was more 6 information. 7 Q. Did you have a different 8 instructor for every drug or one instructor for 9 all three? 10 A. To the best of my recollection, 11 we had one instructor. 12 Q. For the entire program? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And not one for each drug? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. So the same instructor that 17 taught you about microbiology also taught you 18 about or trained you on Prozac? 19 A. Right. We would have other 20 people that would come in and talk about 21 different things, like some of them might come in 22 and talk about how you fill out your expense 23 forms and on those types of things or on 24 different issues, but he was the person that Page 39 1 trained me on those products and was the main 2 person. 3 Q. Okay. Do you recall if anyone 4 other than your instructor came in and discussed 5 Prozac or Fluoxetine with you during that period? 6 A. I don't recall that there was. 7 Q. Do you currently have copies of 8 any of the documents that you received during 9 your four week training program? 10 A. No. We are continually updated 11 with new information with regards to Prozac and 12 all of the products based on the package 13 literature. 14 Q. And that is during your 15 employment with Lilly, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. I'm just concentrating on your 18 training program. 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. So your answer that you didn't 21 keep the documents with respect to Prozac was 22 limited to that training program? 23 A. Say that one more time. 24 Q. I'll ask you again. The Page 40 1 documents that you received concerning Prozac 2 during your training are documents that you don't 3 have now, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. Do you know who would have 6 these documents? 7 A. No, I do not. 8 Q. What product did Select 9 Products representatives detail? 10 A. They had Prozac, Axid and at 11 different times they had Ceclor. They had Ceclor 12 the whole time. 13 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 14 why Dista representatives and Select Products 15 representatives detailed Prozac or Fluoxetine and 16 Lilly representatives did not? 17 A. I do not know why that is. 18 Q. Can you give me the names of 19 any individuals who were Select Products 20 representatives that detailed Prozac or 21 Fluoxetine? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Who are they? 24 A. Eucaro Anibo. Page 41 1 Q. Spell that? 2 A. E-U-C-A-R-O, I don't know that 3 for sure, and her last name is Anibo, I believe, 4 and it's A-N-I-B-O. 5 Q. Is she currently working for 6 Lilly? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Where does she work? 9 A. I don't know exactly where her 10 territory is, I know she's in Chicago someplace. 11 Q. Do you have any personal 12 knowledge as to whether Miss Anibo detailed 13 Prozac or Fluoxetine to Doctor Coleman? 14 A. No, she did not. 15 Q. What's the basis of your 16 answer? 17 A. She did not call on 18 psychiatrists. 19 Q. Is that another difference 20 between Select Products representatives and Dista 21 representatives, in other words do Dista 22 representatives call on psychiatrists and Select 23 Product reps don't? 24 A. Yes. Page 42 1 Q. Is there a separate division 2 called the Select Products division? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Does the Dista division have a 5 home office as well? 6 A. They're all the same home 7 office, Indianapolis. 8 Q. Do you have the names of any 9 other Select Products representatives that you 10 know of that detail Prozac or Fluoxetine? 11 A. That's all I know of. 12 Q. Does she currently work for 13 Lilly? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Where does she work? 16 A. In Indianapolis. 17 Q. Do you have any personal 18 knowledge as to whether she detailed Prozac or 19 Fluoxetine to Doctor Coleman? 20 A. No, she did not. 21 Q. And that's because she is a 22 Select Products representative and Select Product 23 representatives don't detail to psychiatrists? 24 A. Correct. Page 43 1 Q. Any other Select Products 2 representatives that you know of that detail 3 Prozac or Fluoxetine? 4 A. That's all I know of. 5 Q. Do you know any other Dista 6 representatives who detail Fluoxetine or Prozac? 7 A. Do I know any other Dista 8 representatives, yes. 9 Q. Who are they? 10 A. In this area? 11 Q. Yes. And when you say this 12 area, what do you mean, Indianapolis, Louisville? 13 A. Why don't you ask me what you 14 want to know. 15 Q. I want to know all the Dista 16 representatives that would detail Fluoxetine or 17 Prozac in Kentucky or Indiana. 18 A. Okay. I'll give you all that I 19 can recall. 20 Q. That's all I'm asking. 21 A. Linda Harker, H-A-R-K-E-R. 22 Q. Does she currently work for 23 Lilly? 24 A. Yes. Page 44 1 Q. Maybe you can give me all the 2 names first and I'll ask you all the questions, 3 that will probably be easier on you. 4 A. Okay. Max Stringer, 5 S-T-R-I-N-G-E-R, let's see here, Joelle, 6 J-O-E-L-L-E, Eager, E-A-G-E-R, Rick Ascroft, 7 A-S-C-R-O-F-T, Ken Carmichael, 8 C-A-R-M-I-C-H-E-A-L, I'm thinking here. 9 Q. Lisa Waddell? 10 A. She's -- yes, Lisa Waddell, 11 Andy Rader, R-A-D-E-R, Ron Diersing, 12 D-I-E-R-S-I-N-G, Don, D-O-N, Kriner, K-R-I-N-E-R. 13 Those are all that I can recall. 14 Q. What territory did Linda Harker 15 have? 16 A. She has Lexington and out, 17 other town areas of Kentucky which I don't know. 18 Q. To your knowledge, has she ever 19 detailed Proxac or Fluoxetine to Doctor Coleman? 20 A. No. 21 Q. When I'm talking about Doctor 22 Coleman, it's Doctor Lee Coleman. 23 A. Right. 24 Q. So your answers with respect to Page 45 1 Doctor Coleman thus far have been with respect to 2 Doctor Lee Coleman, correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. How about Max Stringer, does he 5 still work for Lilly? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What's his territory? 8 A. He has the other side of 9 Lexington. 10 Q. Has he ever detailed to Doctor 11 Lee Coleman? 12 A. No. 13 Q. How about Joelle Eager? 14 A. No. 15 Q. What did -- just kind of wait 16 until I ask a question. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. Does she still work for Lilly? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Has she ever detailed to Doctor 21 Lee Coleman? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Does Rick Ascroft still work 24 for Lilly? Page 46 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Has he ever detailed to Doctor 3 Lee Coleman? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Ken Carmichael, has he ever 6 detailed to Doctor Coleman? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Does he still work for Lilly? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What's Joelle Eager's 11 territory? 12 A. Columbus, Indiana. 13 Q. What's Rick Ascroft's 14 territory? 15 A. He has Louisville West. 16 Q. What is Ken Carmichael's 17 territory? 18 A. Bloomington, Indiana. 19 Q. Lisa Waddell still work for 20 Lilly? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What's her territory? 23 A. She has Indianapolis, 24 Louisville and Lexington. Page 47 1 Q. Has she ever detailed to Doctor 2 Coleman? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Do you know the inclusive dates 5 that she detailed to Doctor Coleman? 6 A. I don't know the exact dates. 7 She started as a psych-only representative in 8 March of '93 and I don't know anything more 9 inclusive than that. 10 Q. Does Andy Rader still work work 11 for Lilly? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Has he ever detailed to Doctor 14 Lee Coleman? 15 A. No. 16 Q. What's Andy Rader's territory? 17 A. Muncie, Indiana. 18 Q. What about Ron Diersing, does 19 he still work for Lilly? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Has he ever detailed for Doctor 22 Coleman? 23 A. No. 24 Q. What's Ron's territory? Page 48 1 A. Indianapolis, I don't know what 2 side. 3 Q. What was your territory when 4 you began in October of '89? 5 A. Louisville East. 6 Q. Has your territory remained the 7 same throughout your entire employment with Eli 8 Lilly? 9 A. It's changed a little bit. 10 Q. How long was it Louisville 11 East? 12 A. It's always remained Louisville 13 East, the only difference has been I've picked up 14 a few zip codes here and there, or lost. 15 Q. Who notified you of the changes 16 in your territory? 17 A. Territorial Services. 18 Q. Do you speak with anyone there? 19 A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. Is Territorial Services part of 21 the sales division? 22 A. It's a department in 23 Indianapolis. 24 Q. Does Don Kriner still work for Page 49 1 Lilly? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What's his territory. 4 A. Anderson, Indiana. 5 Q. Has he ever detailed to Doctor 6 Lee Coleman? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Other than Miss Waddell, 9 yourself, and the other gentleman you identified 10 earlier -- 11 MR. MYERS: Kushner. 12 Q. -- Ross Kushner, are there any 13 other individuals that you know of that detailed 14 to Doctor Lee Coleman? 15 A. Not that I know of. 16 Q. Any documents at Lilly reflect 17 who specifically detailed product to Doctor Lee 18 Coleman? 19 A. I don't know what documents 20 those would be. 21 MS. MORTIMER: Off the record a second. 22 (DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD.) 23 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Before we 24 went off the record, we were talking at some Page 50 1 point about Select Products representatives and I 2 asked you how they were different than Dista 3 representatives and you said that they did not 4 detail to psychiatrists, is that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Are there any other differences 7 between Select Products representatives and Dista 8 representatives other than the fact that Select 9 Products representatives do not detail to 10 psychiatrists? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What are they? 13 A. We call on different groups of 14 doctors. I call on psychiatrists as I mentioned, 15 they call on gastroenterologists, they also call 16 on some doctors that I may not call on, primary 17 care physicians. I discussed with you different 18 physicians that I call on over time and they have 19 changed and so have the Select Products changed. 20 Q. Who makes the decision as to 21 the medical providers to whom you detail? 22 A. I don't know specifically who 23 the person is that does that, I'm sure that 24 there's -- I'm not sure there is a -- probably Page 51 1 the marketing department makes that decision. 2 Q. How are you informed of this 3 decision, do you receive a letter or how is that 4 information given to you? 5 A. Well, initially I was trained 6 and I was hired to sell those, Keftab, Prozac, 7 and Axid and then as that changed, we were sent 8 letters and we also had a meeting discussing 9 implementing the change. 10 Q. And is the difference between 11 Dista representatives and Select Products 12 representatives and hospital representatives just 13 the fact that hospital representatives and not 14 Select and Dista representatives detail to 15 hospitals? 16 A. Can you rephrase that? 17 Q. Sure. Do Dista representatives 18 and Select Products representatives detail to 19 hospitals or do only hospital representatives 20 detail to hospitals? 21 A. Hospital representatives detail 22 to hospitals, as I mentioned before. There may 23 be a doctor that has an office in the hospital 24 that I see them there but hospital Page 52 1 representatives' primary responsibility is in the 2 hospital. 3 Q. So you never detailed to an 4 entity that was a hospital? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And as best you know, Select 7 Product representatives did not detail to an 8 entity that was a hospital? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you have any personal 11 knowledge of any hospital representatives that 12 detailed Prozac or Fluoxetine during the time 13 frame that you worked at Lilly? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Who are they? 16 A. Jim Edwards, Gene Mallory. 17 Q. J-E-A-N? 18 A. G-E-N-E. 19 Q. Do hospital representatives 20 detail to departments within the hospitals? 21 A. I don't know exactly what their 22 job description is. 23 Q. Is there a job file that you 24 have at Lilly that you're aware of? Page 53 1 A. Not that I'm aware of. 2 MR. MYERS: What do you mean when you 3 say job file, you mean that describes her job? 4 MS. MORTIMER: No, not a job 5 description. I'll ask that in a separate 6 question. 7 Q. Is there a specific, like an 8 employee file that you're aware of that Lilly has 9 on you? 10 A. Not that I'm -- I'm sure they 11 have a file on me saying where I live and, you 12 know, where to send my check and so forth, but I 13 don't know if there's a black file or something 14 about me in Indianapolis. 15 Q. Do you know whether the sales 16 training department has a file that reflects your 17 territory, the individuals to whom you detail and 18 information that specifically reflects what you 19 have done and are doing as a Dista 20 representative? 21 A. I'm not sure. 22 Q. Did you receive a job 23 description when you began your employment with 24 Lilly that detailed, for lack of a better word, Page 54 1 what your duties were at Lilly as a sales 2 representative? 3 A. I don't remember specifically 4 what it said but I do remember getting a job 5 description. 6 Q. Do you still have that? 7 A. Not that I know that I have. 8 Q. Do you know what department at 9 Lilly would have that? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Is there a personnel department 12 at Lilly? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What's it called? 15 A. Personnel department. 16 Q. Really, okay. 17 A. Or personnel. 18 Q. Just so I'm clear, the only 19 office that you ever go to when you go to the 20 home office in Indianapolis is the sales training 21 department office? 22 A. There are district offices. We 23 don't necessarily go to the district office, my 24 manager works out of a district office. Page 55 1 Q. Where is that? 2 A. Currently, Indianapolis. 3 Q. Have you always worked out of 4 one specific district office? 5 A. I don't work out of a district 6 office, my manager does. 7 Q. Has your manager always worked 8 out of, whoever your manager was, the same 9 district office? 10 A. No. 11 Q. What district offices were your 12 managers in during your employment? And you can 13 go in chronological order if you want. 14 A. When I first started with the 15 company, my manager worked out of the district 16 office in Cincinnati. And then I don't know 17 exactly the date, but approximately two years 18 later the company realigned and my district 19 office was out of Indianapolis and it's currently 20 out of Indianapolis. 21 Q. So you have had two district 22 offices where your managers were throughout your 23 entire employment? 24 A. Correct. Page 56 1 Q. When you first started, your 2 manager's name was? 3 A. Paul Frederick. 4 Q. After Paul Frederick, who was 5 your manager? 6 A. Sandy Nenequale. 7 Q. Spell that. 8 A. N-E-N-E-Q-U-A-L-E. 9 Q. Does she still work with Lilly? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Where does she work? 12 A. Personnel. 13 Q. In the Indianapolis office? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did she work out of the 16 district office in Indianapolis when she was your 17 manager? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So the only manager in the 20 Cincinnati office, district office that you had 21 was Paul Frederick? 22 A. Right. 23 Q. After Sandy Nenequale, who was 24 your manager? Page 57 1 A. My manager next was Curtis 2 McManus, M-C-M-A-N-U-S. 3 Q. Does he currently work for 4 Lilly? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What is his job? 7 A. He's a district manager. 8 Q. Is he your district manager 9 currently? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Have Lilly representatives in 12 the time period that you have worked for Lilly 13 ever detailed to psychiatrists? 14 A. No. 15 Q. So the only representatives, 16 sale representatives that detailed to 17 psychiatrists while you were at Lilly are Dista 18 representatives, correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. You also mentioned an 21 individual who worked -- I can't recall your 22 exact words, but she was promoted or she was 23 assigned strictly to psychiatry sales detailing, 24 is that true? Page 58 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. What was her name again? 3 A. Lisa Waddell. 4 Q. Now, was this a promotion or 5 was this a lateral move and she just got assigned 6 strictly psychiatrists? 7 A. It was basically a lateral 8 move. 9 Q. And who assigned her to only 10 psychiatrists? 11 A. I don't know for certain, I'm 12 assuming her manager at the time decided that was 13 a good position for her. 14 Q. Do you know why that decision 15 was made? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Who's her manager? 18 A. Her manager is Curtis McManus. 19 Q. Do the managers detail as well? 20 A. No. 21 Q. What's the district manager's 22 function? 23 A. I don't know exactly what their 24 job description is. Their job is to manage the Page 59 1 sales representatives, I don't know what their 2 job duties include entirely. 3 Q. But generally it's your 4 understanding that they manage the sales 5 representatives, true? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. What's the address of the 8 district office in Indianapolis out of which you 9 worked with Sandy Nenequale and now Curtis 10 McManus? 11 A. I don't know the exact address. 12 I know it's Fortune Park Office Building and I 13 believe it's on Michigan Road, but I don't know 14 that for certain. 15 Q. Why would you as a Dista 16 representative go to the district office? 17 A. I don't go to the district 18 office. 19 Q. Have you ever gone to the 20 district office? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Why would you go there? 23 A. I would go there for a manager 24 to do my performance appraisal but I do not work Page 60 1 out of that office. 2 Q. Is a performance appraisal a 3 yearly thing? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Do you receive an evaluation? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Is that a written evaluation? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Do you get to keep it? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Is a copy of it also kept in a 12 file somewhere, if you know? 13 A. I don't know for certain but it 14 could be. 15 Q. Did you ever have to turn any 16 documents in to the district manager that you 17 would generate as a detailer during any time that 18 you worked at Lilly? 19 A. What kinds of materials are you -- 20 MR. MYERS: You mean like expense 21 reports or -- I don't know -- 22 Q. I'll rephrase the question, and 23 I'll get back to it later. I want to concentrate 24 on training. Page 61 1 Earlier you stated that in the 2 three week period after the microbiology program, 3 you were specifically trained concerning the 4 three products that you were assigned to detail, 5 correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Give me one second to find 8 where I have that in my notes. All right. You 9 stated that with respect to the products that you 10 were going to detail, you were trained on where 11 the specific product was used, all the package 12 literature that went with the product and you 13 were given information concerning the benefits 14 and side effects of the product, is that true? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. With respect to Prozac or 17 Fluoxetine, what information and training did you 18 receive concerning where Prozac and Fluoxetine 19 was used? 20 A. We were given information with 21 regards to Prozac being indicated for the use of 22 depression, treating depression. 23 Q. Is that the only indication for 24 which you were trained concerning Prozac? Page 62 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Is that the only information 3 you were given with respect to Prozac or 4 Fluoxetine concerning where it was used during 5 your training program? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you received documents or 8 pamphlets concerning where the product was used 9 during that time? 10 A. We received documents regarding 11 the use of Prozac for depression. 12 Q. Do you recall the nature of 13 these documents, in other words were they 14 articles or results of clinical trials? 15 A. I don't remember specific but I 16 do remember looking at clinical trials, I 17 remember looking at different papers, I remember 18 seeing slides. I don't remember specifics or 19 titles or -- 20 Q. When you say papers, what do 21 you mean, articles? 22 A. Like journal articles, medical 23 journal articles. 24 Q. Were the slides and the Page 63 1 clinical trials and the papers all generated by 2 Lilly employees? 3 A. I don't recall where they were 4 generated, I don't know where they were 5 generated. 6 Q. In other words, did Lilly 7 employees write the papers or conduct the 8 clinical trials that you looked at during this 9 time period? 10 A. I don't recall who exactly 11 generated the trials and I also do not recall 12 that it was Lilly representatives who did the 13 trials or Lilly people. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I don't know who. 16 Q. Do you have any of these 17 documents currently in your possession? 18 A. No. 19 Q. With respect to the package 20 literature for Prozac or Fluoxetine, what 21 information were you given during that training 22 period? 23 A. Again, I don't remember 24 specifics of exactly what we were given. We were Page 64 1 trained on what was in the package literature, 2 Prozac was used for depression and we talked 3 about the general characteristics of Prozac, the 4 fact that it was Fluoxetine, its safety profile, 5 Prozac side effects, those sorts of areas. 6 Q. What information were you given 7 with respect to the characteristics of Prozac or 8 Fluoxetine? 9 A. Can you be more specific about 10 that? 11 Q. You just testified that you 12 were given information concerning the 13 characteristics of Prozac or Fluoxetine so my 14 question to you is what information concerning 15 the characteristics of Prozac and Fluoxetine were 16 you given? 17 A. As I went on, I was trying to 18 clarify what I'm saying, we discussed the side 19 effect profile of Prozac, we discussed the dosing 20 of Prozac, we discussed the efficacy of Prozac. 21 Those were the characteristics of Prozac of which 22 I was describing. 23 Q. You also said safety profile, 24 true? Page 65 1 A. True. 2 Q. So what information concerning 3 the side effects of Prozac or Fluoxetine were you 4 given during the training program? 5 A. We discussed what was in the 6 actual package insert which is the FDA's insert 7 of the side effects that occur and at what 8 frequency. We additionally discussed more in 9 detail the side effects that are more common with 10 Prozac. 11 Q. What information were you given 12 during training period as to the specific side 13 effects that come with Prozac or Fluoxetine? I'm 14 only talking about what you got -- the 15 information that you got during that training 16 program. 17 A. From what I can -- 18 MR. MYERS: Let me just ask you. You 19 want to know what physical information she got or 20 what the information said? Because she's told 21 you she got the insert that had the information 22 in it. 23 Q. You just testified that you 24 were given information on the specific side Page 66 1 effects of Fluoxetine or Prozac, correct? 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 MR. MYERS: Yes. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What side effects were given to 6 you? 7 A. We discussed the side effects 8 that were more common with Prozac. The one that 9 I recall discussing is that Prozac -- you can 10 have nausea associated with Prozac, I recall that 11 you could have headaches with Prozac, that you 12 could have nervousness associated with Prozac. 13 Q. These were the common side 14 effects that were given to you at the training 15 program, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Any others than nausea, 18 headaches, and nervousness? 19 A. Those are the ones that come 20 out of my mind. 21 Q. Were you given information as 22 to other side effects concerning Prozac or 23 Fluoxetine other than the three that you 24 described during that time period in training? Page 67 1 A. As I mentioned before, in the 2 package insert there are a listing of all the 3 side effects that have ever occurred with Prozac, 4 we were given that information. What I said was 5 that the side effects for which we spent more 6 time discussing were the ones that were more 7 common, which I said were nausea, headaches, and 8 nervousness. 9 Q. As you sit here today, you 10 don't know what the package insert that you were 11 given during the the training program said with 12 respect to other side effects that it listed for 13 Prozac or Fluoxetine other than the three, 14 nausea, headaches, or nervousness? 15 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, I 16 object to the form. That's not what she said, 17 that's not been her testimony. She hasn't told 18 you she doesn't know what they are. Your 19 question assumes that. 20 Q. That was my question, I was 21 asking whether or not it was true that you recall 22 nausea, headaches, or nervousness and while -- 23 but you don't recall the other side effects that 24 were in the package insert, you just remember Page 68 1 that you got the package insert, is that your 2 testimony, because if not, tell me. 3 A. No. 4 Q. What are the other side effects 5 that you were given information on other than 6 nausea, headaches, and nervousness during the 7 training program? 8 A. As I mentioned before, in the 9 package insert there is a listing of all the side 10 effects that have occurred with Prozac. As I 11 mentioned before, the ones that I specifically 12 talked about nervousness, insomnia, and nausea 13 and headaches were the ones that we talked about 14 at more length because they were more common. 15 There are other side effects that can happen with 16 Prozac that are also in the package literature. 17 Q. Okay, you have just given me 18 another one, insomnia. You didn't mention that 19 before. 20 A. That's another one that I 21 recall. 22 Q. I know you are telling me that 23 the package insert had all these side effects but 24 my question continues to be what side effects Page 69 1 were you shown or told about during the training 2 program that may have been in the package insert 3 other than nausea, headaches, nervousness, or 4 insomnia? 5 A. We were given the package 6 inserts at the time which gave all the side 7 effects that could happen. I don't recall every 8 single side effect that was on that list, those 9 were the ones that come to mind. 10 Q. During your training program, 11 did you ever discuss the side effect of suicidal 12 ideation or violent-aggressive behavior? 13 A. No. 14 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, let me 15 object to the form. Your question assumes those 16 are side effects, the evidence will be they're 17 not. 18 MS. MORTIMER: Did you get her answer? 19 COURT REPORTER: Yes. 20 Q. You read the package insert 21 that you were given during the training program, 22 is that true? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you recall whether suicidal Page 70 1 ideation or violent-aggressive behavior were 2 listed as side effects of Fluoxetine or Prozac in 3 that package insert? 4 A. I do not remember reading that 5 as a side effect. 6 Q. During the entire training 7 program that you had for that month, was suicidal 8 ideations or violent-aggressive behavior ever 9 discussed as an alleged side effect of Prozac or 10 Fluoxetine? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Was suicidal ideation and/or 13 violent-aggressive behavior ever discussed in the 14 context of Prozac or Fluoxetine during your 15 training program? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you ever recall discussing 18 suicidal ideation and/or violent-aggressive 19 behavior in the context of discussions concerning 20 Prozac or Fluoxetine with anyone at the training 21 session? 22 A. I do not recall that. 23 Q. What information were you given 24 at the training program concerning the efficacy Page 71 1 of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 2 A. To the best of my knowledge, 3 the information that we discussed about Prozac 4 was that it works as well as the tricyclics and 5 it has an efficacy rate of about seventy-five 6 percent and we looked at various studies and 7 reports and presentations to support those. 8 Q. Do you know if the studies were 9 conducted by Lilly or funded by Lilly that you 10 looked at? 11 A. I don't recall. 12 Q. Do you recall if the reports 13 were written or funded by Lilly? 14 A. I do not recall. 15 Q. What were you told at the 16 training session concerning what Prozac or 17 Fluoxetine does? 18 A. Can you be a little more 19 specific about it? 20 Q. What's the function of Prozac 21 or Fluoxetine in the body, what were you told at 22 the training session about that? 23 A. It was a compound that is used 24 to treat depression and the function of Prozac is Page 72 1 it works as a selective serotonin reuptake 2 inhibitor. 3 Q. What information were you given 4 at the training session in 1989 concerning the 5 safety profile of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 6 A. To the best of my knowledge, 7 the training about the safety was with regards to 8 safety in overdose. 9 Q. And what information 10 specifically did you receive concerning that? 11 A. I don't know specific 12 information but I remember the general gist of 13 talking about it was that Prozac is much safer 14 than tricyclics in overdose because if you know 15 much about tricyclics, it doesn't take very many 16 tricyclics to cause death. 17 Q. But it would take a substantial 18 amount more of Prozac or Fluoxetine to have death -- 19 cause death? 20 A. At that point there had been no 21 deaths with overdose of Prozac. 22 Q. Who gave you that information? 23 A. My instructor. 24 Q. Do you know what he based that Page 73 1 statement on, that conclusion on? 2 A. The reports that had been 3 submitted to Indianapolis to the adverse event 4 department, drug utilization or adverse drug 5 department. 6 Q. Is that the name of the 7 department at Lilly? 8 A. Drug -- 9 Q. Epidemiology unit? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. So the instructor represented 12 to you that his conclusion that no deaths with 13 overdose -- no deaths by overdose of Prozac were 14 ever reported as of 1989 was based on the drug 15 epidemiology unit's colation or view of reports 16 on adverse events? 17 MR. MYERS: At the period of time in 18 1989 when she was in the program? 19 MS. MORTIMER: I said that. 20 MR. MYERS: No, you said in 1989. 21 MS. MORTIMER: She was in the program 22 in 1989. 23 Q. In 1989, when you were in the 24 program, when he made that statement to you that Page 74 1 no deaths by overdose of Prozac were ever 2 reported, did he represent to you that he got 3 this information from the drug epidemiology unit? 4 A. I don't know exactly where the 5 information was from but that is a department 6 that reports all of the events that happen 7 adversely with Prozac and that is information 8 which also we report. 9 Q. So basically he made the 10 statement to you and you are assuming his 11 statement was based upon the adverse event 12 reports that were supposedly made to the drug 13 epidemiology unit? 14 A. And the studies that were done 15 on Prozac. 16 Q. I understand. But you are 17 assuming that he didn't make that representation 18 to you, correct? He just said no overdoses have 19 ever been reported that caused death with Prozac 20 to date and you're assuming that his basis for 21 that statement was the adverse event reporting 22 that was done to the drug epidemiology unit, 23 correct? 24 A. Let me clarify what I said. Page 75 1 The clarification is, in studying the safety 2 profile of Prozac, our instructor taught us and 3 showed us that at that point there had been no 4 deaths reported with Prozac in overdose and that 5 was something that was from reports. I don't 6 know if they were all from the DEU or if they 7 were based on all the studies, I don't know where 8 that information came from, I don't recall. 9 Q. I'm just trying to get at what 10 he represented to you. I understand that he made 11 the statement to you that there are no reported 12 overdoses causing death with Prozac to date, I 13 understand that he made that statement to you, 14 correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Did he tell you when he made 17 that statement that the basis of his statement 18 was certain studies? 19 A. He did not, I do not recall 20 what he based that statement on. 21 Q. But you're assuming based on 22 the context that you were talking to him that 23 that may have been what he based that statement 24 on, correct? Page 76 1 A. I'm not assuming, I'm 2 suggesting that it could be. It could be and 3 there may have been other sources from which he 4 got that statement. I'm saying I don't know 5 where he got that information. I was suggesting, 6 that I would think could be one of the areas 7 where he obtained that information. 8 Q. So he didn't make any 9 representations to you as to what the basis of 10 the statement was, he made the statement to you 11 and you're suggesting possible areas that may 12 have been the basis of the statement? 13 A. I don't recall if or where he 14 said he got that information. I was suggesting 15 that those were possible areas where he could 16 have gotten that information. 17 Q. During your training, did you 18 ever actually participate in any clinical trials 19 or any studies concerning Prozac or Fluoxetine? 20 A. No. 21 Q. During your employment with Eli 22 Lilly, have you ever participated in clinical 23 trials or any kind of hands on study with respect 24 to Fluoxetine or Prozac? Page 77 1 A. No. 2 Q. What information were you given 3 concerning the dosing of Fluoxetine or Prozac at 4 the training program? 5 A. To the best of my ability, the 6 training focused on the fact that Prozac is dosed 7 at twenty milligrams once a day. 8 Q. How did your training with 9 respect to Prozac or Fluoxetine differ from the 10 training that you received during that period in 11 1989 for Keftab and Axid? 12 A. Well, it differed in the fact 13 that they're all different classifications of 14 drugs and they're used for different indications. 15 And for that matter, we called on different 16 physicians pertaining to those different 17 products. 18 Q. Was there a different type of 19 training for Keftab and Axid? In other words, 20 did you have hands on training or actual studies 21 that you did with Keftab and Axid that you 22 already testified you didn't do with Prozac? 23 A. No. 24 Q. So it was basically the Page 78 1 lectures and -- 2 A. It was a similar format for 3 each product. 4 Q. Did you ever detail Prozac or 5 Fluoxetine to Mister Kushner at K-Mart when he 6 was a pharmacist? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you know if anyone ever did 9 from Lilly? 10 A. Did anyone ever detail Mister 11 Kushner? Not that I know of. 12 Q. Does Lilly send 13 representatives, whether they are Dista 14 representatives or any other representatives, to 15 K-Mart that you're aware of? 16 A. We do call on K-Mart. 17 Q. You said that you took exams 18 during your training program, is that true? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Were you graded? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What was the grading scale, A, 23 B, C, D, and F? 24 A. It was, yes, it was based on a Page 79 1 standard scale. 2 Q. How many tests did you take? 3 A. I don't recall the exact number 4 of tests, I just recall taking a test based on 5 the product launch. 6 Q. What grade did you receive for 7 your testing with respect to Prozac? 8 A. I don't remember the exact 9 number value but I believe it was an A. 10 Q. Is there a specific department 11 that would have that information on record? 12 A. Not that I'm aware of. 13 Q. Did you receive a report card 14 or grade in the mail? 15 A. No. 16 Q. I don't recall your answer or 17 if I asked you, but did you have a training 18 manual that you used during the training period 19 in 1989? 20 A. I don't know that it was called 21 a training manual, I do remember having different 22 information given to us pertaining to the 23 products. 24 Q. Did you have a book that you Page 80 1 kept it all in like a binder or handbook that you 2 received? 3 A. As I recall, yes, there was a 4 binder that I organized it. 5 Q. Did you keep it and do you now 6 use it or have you used it during your 7 employment? 8 A. I don't have it now but I kept 9 it when I came in to start my job. 10 Q. Do you have any idea where that 11 is? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Were Lilly representatives and 14 Select Product representatives and Dista 15 representatives and hospital representatives all 16 trained together during that training period? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Why is that if you know? 19 A. Well, they have different 20 training sessions for the different 21 representatives at different times so depending 22 on timing, they just trained the Dista 23 representatives because we have different 24 products that we were trained on. The timing of Page 81 1 things may have been different. 2 Q. Are all the different 3 representatives trained in the same part of the 4 Indianapolis office that you were trained in? 5 A. They're all trained in the 6 sales training area. 7 MS. MORTIMER: Let's go off the record. 8 (DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD.) 9 Q. Other than being trained with 10 respect to the specific products that you were 11 going to detail, you stated that you were also 12 trained less than ten percent on sales 13 techniques, is that true? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. What kind of information and 16 training were you given with respect to sales 17 techniques during that period of time in 1989? 18 A. To the best that I can recall, 19 we just discussed ways to do your routing of your 20 territory, what were good ways to introduce 21 yourself to the physician, just general things 22 like that. 23 Q. Anything else other than 24 routing and ways to introduce yourself to the Page 82 1 physician that you can think of? 2 A. It was pretty general because 3 at that point, the main part of the program was 4 training on the product knowledge and the main 5 thing thrust of it was just to go out and get to 6 know the physician and introduce yourself, try to 7 get some time just detailing your products, 8 making appointments and introducing yourself to 9 the office staff, buildinging a rapport. 10 Basically they were asking us to get to know your 11 territory, learn the roads where you were going, 12 learn the logistics of the territory. 13 Q. And that's routing, that's what 14 you mean by routing? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Go ahead, I'm sorry to 17 interrupt. 18 A. When the best times are to see 19 physicians, the physician's days off, those types 20 of things. 21 Q. What definition were you given 22 with respect to what detailing means during your 23 training program? 24 A. I don't remember a specific Page 83 1 definition that we were given. Detailing a 2 physician is providing a physician information 3 with regards to your products for their patient, 4 that's a very general definition. 5 Q. A detail man is basically what 6 you're called, or a detail person is what you're 7 called, is that true or not? 8 A. My title is sales 9 representative. 10 Q. And during your training, did 11 you discuss promotion type issues? 12 A. Can you be more specific? 13 Q. Did you discuss what kinds of 14 information you would be giving the doctors when 15 you did your visits? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. What types of information did 18 you get at your training session concerning the 19 information you would be giving to the doctors? 20 A. To the best that I can recall, 21 we had detail pieces which would describe the 22 different features of Prozac. We were also given 23 journal reprints that had various studies with 24 regards to Prozac. Page 84 1 Q. Journal reprint like a type of 2 article? 3 A. Like in the New England Journal 4 of Medicine, and these documents were approved by 5 Lilly for our use in detailing physicians. 6 Q. Did you discuss incentives 7 during your training that you would give doctors? 8 MR. MYERS: I object to the form. What 9 do you mean by incentives? 10 Q. Samples that you would be 11 authorized to give to doctors. 12 A. Yes, we discussed samples in 13 the training. 14 Q. What information were you given 15 concerning samples during the training program? 16 A. We were given information that 17 we would receive monthly shipments of samples to 18 give to physicians. 19 Q. Were you trained on how to 20 document the samples that you gave to the 21 physicians during your training program? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you have to report the 24 distribution of sample drugs to some sort of Page 85 1 government agency? 2 A. Yes. Now, I don't personally 3 do it. 4 Q. What agency does Lilly have to 5 report to, if you know? 6 A. I'm assuming the FDA, but I 7 don't know if they have other departments that 8 they send it to. I am required to send in what 9 amount of samples I distribute to physicians. 10 Q. Where do you send that 11 information? 12 A. I send that to Indianapolis. 13 Q. What department specifically in 14 Indianapolis do you send the information 15 concerning the samples that you give? 16 A. I don't know the specific 17 sample accountability division of Indianapolis, 18 and I send a document showing all the different 19 samples that I've left for the physicians and I 20 send it in an envelope to Indianapolis and at 21 that point, I don't remember the drop code, but 22 some drop code in Indianapolis. 23 Q. When you say drop code, what do 24 you mean, like a box number? Page 86 1 A. Right, I don't know. 2 Q. A post office box number only 3 it's within Lilly? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. If you ever need a break, let 6 me know and we'll take one. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. When you were in the training 9 program, did you discuss other activities you 10 would do with the physician like take the 11 physician out to lunch or something of that 12 nature to promote the drug? 13 A. We did not discuss whether 14 you're going to go take the physician to lunch. 15 We discussed like speaker programs or those types 16 of programs but really not at much length. 17 Q. So during your training 18 program, you discussed informing physicians about 19 various seminars, is that what you mean by 20 speaking programs? 21 A. Well, the main part of our 22 training program, as I said before, was learning 23 the different products and the information. We 24 discussed that from time to time you may set up Page 87 1 or work with universities, et cetera, and set up 2 different CME accredited programs for physicians. 3 Q. What does CME stand for, 4 continuing medical education? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. So during your training program 7 you were never told that you would be authorized 8 to take a physician to lunch or to take them to 9 dinner or to, you know -- 10 A. We were never told that we 11 couldn't do that, we are allowed to do lunches if 12 you need to do that. It wasn't something that 13 they said go out and take the physicians to 14 dinner and wine and dine them, that was not what 15 they were teaching us. 16 Q. I understand. Was there 17 anything else you can think of with respect to 18 the amount of time that you spent in training 19 concerning sales training you were given? 20 A. Those are the general things 21 that I can remember. 22 MR. MYERS: Let's take a short break 23 while you are looking through that. 24 (A SHORT RECESS WAS TAKEN.) Page 88 1 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Were you 2 given any information or any training during your 3 initial training program that began October of 4 '89 concerning adverse event reporting? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. What kind of training did you 7 receive? 8 A. The training was that if you 9 are in a physician's office and if you are given 10 information about a specific patient that has had 11 any adverse reaction event with Prozac, that we 12 are to call the DEU and we're given like a little 13 card, like an index card like, from which we 14 would call Indianapolis and give the information 15 and then at that point Indianapolis will contact 16 the physician and gather additional information. 17 Q. So your handling of the adverse 18 event reporting would be limited to that initial 19 call you would make to the DEU, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And after you made that initial 22 call, would you do any follow up? 23 A. At that point, they take it 24 from there and they discuss the incident or the Page 89 1 patient with the physician directly. 2 Q. Do you have to fill out any 3 kind of form or is your reporting limited to 4 telephoning? 5 A. We are required to call as soon 6 as we have received that kind of report and 7 there's someone there -- 8 Q. So it's true that there is -- 9 MR. MYERS: Wait a minute, were you 10 through? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 Q. So it's true that there is no 13 report that you have to actually fill out? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And you alluded to a card and I 16 would like you -- 17 MS. MORTIMER: If we could mark this as 18 Hoffman exhibit. 19 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 2 WAS 20 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 21 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 22 Q. If you could look at Hoffman 23 Exhibit 2 for a minute and read it through. 24 (The witness complies.) Page 90 1 Q. Could you identify what Exhibit 2 2 is for me, if you know? 3 A. This is a card that's given to 4 sales representatives that we are to use when we 5 have an event reported to us, such as an adverse 6 drug experience. 7 Q. And this Exhibit 2 is a carbon 8 copy or a copy of the card that you testified to 9 earlier that you were given, is that true? 10 A. Yes, this basically -- the 11 information on the card has remained the same but 12 we have had different forms of the card given to 13 us over the years. 14 Q. Do you know in which period 15 Exhibit 2 was used? 16 A. I don't know the specific 17 period this one was used, this is a similar 18 document that I recall receiving. 19 Q. How has the information on this 20 card changed in your experience at Lilly? 21 A. My experience is the 22 information has remained the same. My comment 23 was that we have been given different -- like a 24 file card to put in our briefcase and like a -- Page 91 1 Q. Different forms of the same 2 information? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. If you look at Exhibit 2 on the 5 first column, I realize this is probably the copy 6 of the front and back of the card, I don't know 7 I've never seen a card, but if you look at the 8 first column under sales representative it says 9 VMX number after name, what does that mean? 10 A. Voice mail number. 11 Q. What is your territory number? 12 A. 9566. 13 Q. Has it always been 9566? 14 A. No. 15 Q. What was your territory number 16 when you began working as a sales representative? 17 A. I don't recall. 18 Q. You detailed Prozac to Doctor 19 Lee Coleman, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Do you still detail Prozac or 22 any drug to Doctor Lee Coleman? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. When you started detailing for Page 92 1 Doctor Lee Coleman, what was your territory 2 number? 3 A. I don't know the territory, I 4 don't recall what it was. 5 Q. What is the territory number 6 now? 7 A. 9566. 8 Q. And that's the only number that 9 you can recall? 10 A. That's the only number that I 11 can recall. 12 Q. How many others were there, do 13 you know? 14 A. I don't recall exact numbers, 15 but as I mentioned before my territory has 16 changed a little bit over the years, be it 17 realignment where I've picked up one zip code or 18 lost one. As that happens, that number would 19 change and it's happened a couple of times but I 20 do not recall the specific number. 21 Q. You do recall that it's changed 22 one or two times? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Was it more than two? Page 93 1 A. No. 2 Q. In the same column on Exhibit 3 2, which is the left column under drug slash 4 medical device information, it says adverse 5 experience. Were you given any kind of 6 definition of what an adverse experience is 7 beyond the example that's listed under Exhibit 2? 8 A. Any kind of adverse experience 9 that a physician would report to me, I would call 10 in. 11 Q. Okay. Did somebody -- I 12 understand that, but in your training program did 13 anybody ever tell you or give you any information 14 as to what is deemed a, quote, adverse 15 experience, close quote? 16 A. We discussed that if a 17 physician brings up to you that they had a 18 patient who experienced any kind of side effect 19 or adverse event, if they gave you a specific 20 patient that had this sort of event, that we were 21 to call this adverse drug experience. 22 Q. Into the department? 23 A. DEU. 24 Q. Into the drug epidemiology Page 94 1 unit? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. What were you told about how 4 you would report the adverse experience to the 5 DEU? And let me clarify that a little bit. Did 6 they have you name the event in any way or did 7 you just get to call them in and give them a 8 general description? 9 A. Repeat the exact question. 10 Q. In other words, there's been 11 some testimony in this case that certain events 12 are classified as an overdose or as other 13 specific things, did you have to classify the 14 event, the adverse experience, before you gave 15 that information to the DEU? In other words did 16 you have to determine whether it was an overdose 17 or something else and then call in and say it was 18 an overdose? 19 A. My role -- if a physician said 20 to me this patient experienced x side effect and 21 they were taking Prozac, then I would gather 22 information, as much as I could. I would call 23 this number and I would report exactly what the 24 physician had reported to me. Page 95 1 Q. So you weren't given any kind 2 of key which said this type of adverse experience 3 will be called this overdose or this something 4 else, violent-aggressive behavior or something of 5 that nature? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Okay. The second column of 8 Exhibit 2 under sales representative, reporting 9 requirements, it says, quote, all adverse 10 experiences associated with the use of a Lilly or 11 Dista drug must be reported to the drug 12 epidemiology unit, paren, DEU, close paren, 13 period, this includes, colon, serious and 14 nonserious experience, labeled and non-labeled 15 experiences, and there's some paren information 16 in there, and then experiences that are drug 17 related and experiences that may not be drug 18 related, unquote. Do you see that? 19 A. Uh-huh. 20 MR. MYERS: Yes. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Did you label the events that 23 the doctors reported to you as serious and 24 nonserious, labeled or non-labeled drug related Page 96 1 or may not be drug related? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Was any information given to 4 you when you received this card as to the 5 definitions of nonserious and serious 6 experiences, labeled and non-labeled experiences 7 or drug related and may not be drug related 8 experiences? 9 A. Say that one more time. 10 Q. Did anybody give you 11 definitions when they gave you this card that 12 would tell you what serious and nonserious 13 experiences were or what labeled or non-labeled 14 experiences were and so forth? 15 A. To the best that I can recall, 16 the information that we were given was that if 17 you receive any information regarding what kind 18 of an event the patient may have had with Prozac, 19 you are to report it. So regardless of what 20 degree, you thought, whatever, you report it. 21 Q. So my question was whether you 22 were given any information that defined the 23 various terms listed in this second column which 24 include, quote, serious and nonserious Page 97 1 experiences and labeled and non-labeled 2 experiences and so forth. I understand what they 3 told you but I'm wondering if anybody ever said 4 Christy, this is a serious experience, this is a 5 nonserious experience? 6 A. I don't recall discussing the 7 definitions of what was serious and nonserious. 8 Q. And would the same hold true 9 for whether something was labeled or non-labeled 10 or something was drug related or may not be drug 11 related? 12 A. Again, what I recall vividly 13 was that any event that you have been reported by 14 a physician, you report. 15 Q. So it's true that nobody gave 16 you any definition of what a labeled experience 17 as opposed to a non-labeled experience was or 18 what a drug related or what a, quote, may not be, 19 close quote, drug related experience was? 20 A. Correct. If I may add 21 something? 22 Q. No. 23 MR. MYERS: Go ahead, if you need to 24 explain, go ahead. Page 98 1 MS. MORTIMER: There's no question 2 pending. 3 MR. MYERS: Go ahead and tell her what 4 you were going to tell her. 5 MS. MORTIMER: Over my objection since 6 there is no question. 7 MR. MYERS: Go ahead. 8 MS. MORTIMER: I can make my objection. 9 MR. MYERS: Sure, you can. 10 MS. MORTIMER: My objection is there is 11 no question pending and I object to the 12 narrative. 13 MR. MYERS: And the witness has an 14 absolute right to explain any answer that she 15 gives to any question. Go ahead. 16 A. My explanation further to this 17 topic is that the main information that we got is 18 that don't discount anything that a physician has 19 given you. If a physician told me that a 20 patient's ear turned red because they were on 21 Prozac, I would report that to Indianapolis. So 22 the significance of this is very important to 23 Lilly, if there is anything that is reported to 24 you, you are not the judge of whether these are Page 99 1 the categories, the crux of the entire document 2 is that you report everything that is given to 3 you from a physician about a patient experiencing 4 an adverse drug experience. 5 Q. And this is an oral report that 6 you give on the telephone, correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. When you call in, do you talk 9 to a live person or do you leave a message on a 10 machine? 11 A. Talk to a live person. 12 Q. Do you have somebody that you 13 specifically call at the DEU? 14 A. I call this number. 15 Q. So whoever answers? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Do you know what the 18 individuals at the DEU do with the information 19 that you give them? 20 A. The only thing that I know that 21 they do is that they then follow up with the 22 physician to gather as much information as they 23 can and then I don't know from there exactly what 24 they do with all of the information. Page 100 1 Q. Do you know if they write a 2 report or fill out a form which reflects the 3 information that you gave them? 4 A. I do not know. 5 Q. Have you ever seen any kind of 6 documentation that memorialized any phone calls 7 you made to the DEU concerning adverse 8 experiences that were reported to you by various 9 physicians or any medical providers? 10 A. No. 11 Q. What were you told during your 12 training program that began in October of '89 13 about answering physicians' questions about 14 Prozac or Fluoxetine? 15 A. What kind of questions? 16 Q. Any kind of question that you 17 get with respect to Prozac or Fluoxetine, were 18 you given leeway to answer questions or were you 19 given verbatim statements that you were to give 20 physicians or any medical provider in response to 21 a particular question by a doctor? 22 A. We had different exercises 23 where we discussed things you -- questions that 24 the physicians might ask. Questions that I would Page 101 1 answer would be ones that are within the package 2 insert guidelines. 3 Q. Could you elaborate on that a 4 little bit? 5 A. For example, if a physician 6 asked me what is the efficacy rate with Prozac, I 7 might have a detail piece which I might show him 8 and say this is the efficacy rate of Prozac. 9 Q. What do you mean by a detail 10 piece? 11 A. It's a piece of -- a 12 promotional piece that we use to detail 13 physicians. 14 Q. Who gives you these promotional 15 pieces? 16 A. Our marketing department. 17 Q. So during your training, you 18 were given examples of these promotional pieces 19 and you were told that this was an option that 20 you would have when you detailed to give to a 21 physician in response to questions concerning, 22 for example, the efficacy rate of Prozac? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. What other types of things were Page 102 1 you told about answering questions of physicians 2 beyond being able to give them promotional 3 pieces? 4 A. Can you give me an example of 5 what you mean? 6 Q. Sure. If you personally, when 7 you are at home, saw an article in a newspaper 8 and read it and a physician asked you about 9 something that was related to that article, could 10 you on your own tell them about that article or 11 would you have to only limit your responses to 12 information given to you by Eli Lilly? 13 A. The information that I am able 14 to use are the detail pieces and materials I am 15 given by Indianapolis that are for detailing, we 16 are not able to use promotion pieces that are not 17 identified by Lilly as allowed for detailing. 18 Q. So going back to my example, if 19 you read something in the newspaper the evening 20 before you saw a doctor and the next day the 21 doctor asked you a question that was directly on 22 point to what you read in an article, it's true 23 that you would have to either get the article 24 that you read approved by Lilly in Indianapolis Page 103 1 or disregard the article and use something else 2 that was authorized by Lilly in response to the 3 doctor's question? 4 A. I would not be able to use that 5 article, I would go back to something that was 6 approved for detailing. 7 Q. So basically everything you 8 represented to these doctors when you detail was 9 information that you were authorized to give by 10 Lilly and that information only, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And in your training session, 13 your initial training session in 1989, one of the 14 things you were told was the only information you 15 can give to the physicians in your detailing is 16 information authorized and approved by Lilly, 17 correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. In your detail experience at 20 Lilly, we'll go beyond training, in your 21 detailing experience at Lilly, have you ever 22 given a physician an article or a paper or any 23 kind of documentation that reflected that 24 suicidal ideation and/or violent-aggressive Page 104 1 behavior was a side effect of Fluoxetine or 2 Prozac? 3 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, let me 4 object to the form to the extent your question 5 assumes that there is any such writing. If there 6 is, I would be interested as would everyone else 7 in this room to see that. Go ahead, if you can 8 answer, go ahead. 9 A. Restate your question one more 10 time. 11 Q. Did you ever in your detailing 12 duties give an article to a physician that was -- 13 had detrimental things to say about Prozac or 14 Fluoxetine? 15 A. That wasn't the question that 16 you said before. 17 Q. I know it wasn't, I rephrased 18 it. 19 A. Say that one more time. 20 MS. MORTIMER: Can you read back the 21 question? 22 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 23 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 24 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, I'll Page 105 1 object to the form to the extent it's awfully 2 vague as to the terms detrimental. 3 MS. MORTIMER: Negative. 4 MR. MYERS: That's even probably worse. 5 If you can answer, go ahead. 6 A. Can you explain to me what you 7 mean by negative? 8 Q. Bad, anything bad. Did you 9 ever get to give an article to a physician as to 10 anything negative or bad or detrimental about 11 Prozac or Fluoxetine? 12 A. I don't know what your 13 definition of bad or detrimental is. 14 MR. MYERS: Same objection. 15 MS. MORTIMER: I can't get any more 16 clear. 17 MR. MYERS: Here's the problem, if an 18 article, any article, discussed an adverse event 19 or side effect, somebody could regard that as 20 negative or detrimental, for instance. 21 That's a pretty clear example, so that's the 22 problem that I've got with your example. 23 Q. Did you ever give an article to 24 a physician that concluded that Prozac or Page 106 1 Fluoxetine was dangerous to use or not 2 appropriate to use in any situation? 3 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, I 4 object to the form to the extent you're assuming 5 there is such an article. 6 MS. MORTIMER: You can answer the 7 question. 8 MR. MYERS: Sure she can, absolutely, 9 I'm just objecting to the form. 10 A. I'm sorry that I'm asking again 11 but there's been a lot of questions, can you ask 12 me your question again, please? 13 MR. MYERS: Let her read it back. 14 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 15 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 16 A. I don't recall giving a piece 17 of material saying that Prozac was dangerous. 18 Q. Were you ever given to read, 19 not necessarily to distribute, but to read any 20 articles that concluded that Prozac allegedly 21 caused side effects of suicidal ideation or 22 violent-aggressive behavior? 23 MR. MYERS: Same objection, answer if 24 you can. Page 107 1 MS. MORTIMER: What objection? 2 MR. MYERS: It assumes that there is 3 such a writing. 4 MS. MORTIMER: But the way I phrased it 5 does not. 6 MR. MYERS: I think it does. Go ahead 7 and answer if you can. 8 A. I don't recall reading a paper 9 that concluded that Prozac caused suicidal 10 ideation or aggressive behavior. 11 MS. MORTIMER: Could you read that 12 answer back? 13 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 14 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 15 Q. Did you ever receive and not 16 necessarily distribute any articles or any 17 documentation that discussed the side effects of 18 suicidal ideation or violent-aggressive behavior 19 as a side effect of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 20 MR. MYERS: Same objection. 21 THE WITNESS: Can you read the question 22 back to me again? 23 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 24 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) Page 108 1 A. I recall receiving documents 2 and these were not documents that we would give 3 to physicians saying that there was -- there had 4 been alleged reports that Prozac had that kind of 5 a side effect. 6 Q. Who did you receive the 7 documents from? 8 A. Indianapolis. 9 Q. What division within the 10 Indianapolis office, if you remember? 11 A. I don't know what division. 12 Q. When you would get documents, 13 whether they were promotional pieces or documents 14 that discussed reports of alleged side effects, 15 would they be distributed to you through your 16 district district manager? 17 A. No. 18 Q. So would you sometimes get 19 documents such as promotional pieces or any kinds 20 of documents that directed you in your duties 21 from your district manager? 22 A. The reports that I would get 23 from my district manager were more expense 24 reports and those sorts of reports. The Page 109 1 promotional pieces and those sorts of information 2 were sent from Indianapolis. 3 Q. But you don't know from what 4 division in Indianapolis, is that true? 5 A. I don't know exactly which 6 division, I would expect it to be different 7 depending on what document you are talking about. 8 Q. Where would you suspect the 9 document that would give you information on the 10 report of alleged side effects of suicidal 11 ideation and violent-aggressive behavior with 12 respect to Prozac would come from? 13 A. Again, I don't know for certain 14 but I would think probably from the Prozac 15 marketing department or maybe the DEU, I don't 16 recall which ones they would come from. 17 Q. Is there a specific marketing 18 department for Prozac that's called the Prozac 19 marketing department? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you know who heads that 22 department? 23 A. No. 24 Q. How long has that department Page 110 1 been in existence? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Do you normally keep the 4 documents that you receive concerning -- the ones 5 that you have identified giving you information 6 on the alleged reports of suicidal ideation and 7 violent aggressive behavior as side effects of 8 Prozac? 9 A. Do I keep all the things that 10 are sent to me about Prozac? No. 11 Q. Do you currently have copies of 12 the documents that you've identified that discuss 13 the alleged articles or reports about 14 violent-aggressive behavior and suicide? 15 A. I suggested that over time 16 we've gotten different things in the mail but I'm 17 not relating to a specific letter or piece and so 18 therefore I don't know which one you're talking 19 about. There are certain articles and 20 promotional pieces that I do have of Prozac and 21 there are some that I don't. 22 Q. Do you keep files at your home 23 since you work out of your home? 24 A. Yes, I do. Page 111 1 Q. Do you have a Prozac file at 2 home? 3 A. Not Prozac, per se, no. 4 Q. What kind of files do you keep 5 at home? 6 A. Expense report files, just 7 letters that I've written to my manager, I keep, 8 depending on the importance of what I'm sent, 9 I'll keep -- I can't recall every file that I 10 keep at home. 11 Q. Do you have a file that would 12 contain promotional material that you received 13 during your employment as a detailer concerning 14 Prozac? 15 A. Let me just explain this. 16 Indianapolis continuously sends us updated 17 information and I keep current information. I 18 discard the old information and replace it with 19 the new information as to it relates to the 20 changes in the package labeling of the product. 21 Q. So currently it goes back just -- 22 do you have any information currently in your 23 files that relates to the promotion of Prozac or 24 to the changes in package inserts of Prozac and Page 112 1 the kinds of things that you've identified here 2 today? 3 A. Do I have any? Yes. 4 MS. MORTIMER: I'll make a discovery 5 request of that. 6 MR. MYERS: We're not going to produce 7 the stuff that she has now from 1993 that relates 8 to a shooting that occurred in 1989. 9 MS. MORTIMER: She is testifying here 10 today that she didn't start working for Lilly 11 until October of '89 and the shooting occurred in 12 September of 1989 so basically you waived that 13 objection by producing your witness here today. 14 MR. MYERS: If you understood the 15 discovery history of this case, you would have a 16 different understanding about that. What I'm 17 telling you is that we have produced to you today 18 documents that this witness -- that we've 19 identified of this witness's that have to do with 20 the physician in this case that was a 21 co-defendant who prescribed the drug to Mister 22 Wesbecker whom this person has called on since 23 the shooting. She has also told you that she 24 keeps materials concerning this product that are Page 113 1 current. It is now 1993, anything that she's got 2 in 1993 is not at all reasonably calculated to 3 lead to the discovery of relevant and admissible 4 evidence as it relates to this incident. We 5 produced to you those things that are relevant to 6 the subject matter of this incident, which is 7 Doctor Coleman, but what she's got now that 8 relates to Fluoxetine or Prozac in 1993, could 9 not under the wildest stretch of the imagination 10 lead to the discovery of relevant or admissible 11 evidence as it relates to this incident. So you 12 have to take that up with somebody other than a 13 lawyer. I'm not going to argue the point, that's 14 our position. 15 MS. MORTIMER: I can make my record. I 16 believe that quite to the contrary the discovery 17 of any document that the witness has concerning 18 Prozac relate to what it will lead to admissible 19 evidence and discoverable evidence and that's the 20 standard. I also know that in the history of the 21 discovery in this case, you know, just because 22 it's my first deposition with respect to this 23 case doesn't mean that I'm not well versed on the 24 history of this case and your representation of Page 114 1 the history and what was asked to be produced and 2 what was in fact produced is not the 3 representation that I see from the orders that 4 are in the files in this case and Judge Potter's 5 ruling and the commissioner's rulings in this 6 case. We've asked about every document 7 and asked for every document that each deponent 8 has come in contact with with respect to Lilly 9 and it is not limited to the documents that were 10 used and produced prior to September 14th of '89. 11 If that was the case, the witness would not be 12 here today. 13 MR. MYERS: Right. So just so you 14 understand, we were asked a question, who were 15 the people that called on Doctor Coleman. That 16 information was furnished both in written 17 discovery responses and in correspondence. The 18 question was then asked, we would like to take 19 the depositions of those individuals. The 20 response was that this witness and tomorrow's 21 witness are still in our employ and we will 22 produce them for a deposition even though they 23 called on him after the fact. The other two 24 individuals, as this person said, do not work for Page 115 1 the company any longer. So that is how and why 2 this individual is here and this individual is 3 here to testify about whatever you want to ask 4 her, but we're not going to have her stop her 5 employment and bring her employment to a 6 screeching halt to give you 1993 documents 7 concerning Fluoxetine. 8 MS. MORTIMER: I'm not asking for her 9 to stop her employment, if she's got documents 10 that show the changes that have been made in the 11 promotional materials and the changes that have 12 been made in the package inserts, that is 13 definitely relevant to the status of the 14 promotional materials in 1989 prior to September 15 14th of '89 when the incident occurred. 16 MR. MYERS: You must not have listened 17 very closely then to her answer as to what she 18 maintains. She wasn't with the company before 19 1989. 20 MS. MORTIMER: I understand that. 21 MR. MYERS: She wouldn't have had 22 anything. 23 MS. MORTIMER: I understand that but 24 what she has now is relevant to what existed Page 116 1 prior to September of '89. I'm not going to go 2 into it any further because I'm sure the witness 3 would like to go back to her normal duties and 4 not sit here all day. 5 MR. MYERS: I believe that, I believe 6 we agree on that. Go ahead. 7 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) When you 8 were in your employment with Lilly, have you ever 9 been given any documents or articles that were 10 generated prior to September of '89? 11 A. Not that I recall. 12 Q. Were the adverse event cards 13 that are reflected on Exhibit 2, were they always 14 this general or were you ever given an adverse 15 event card that was specifically related to 16 Prozac? 17 A. This is, in my recollection, 18 generally what we have received, there's never 19 been specifics about Prozac. 20 Q. What were you told to ask the 21 physicians when they reported an adverse 22 experience to you, what kind of information were 23 you told to elicit from them? 24 A. You have to understand that Page 117 1 physicians are very busy people, so we can get as 2 much information as we can. A physician may say 3 to me -- give me a lot of information, they may 4 have give me -- I would elicit as much 5 information as I could from the physician about 6 the event that had occurred. 7 Q. And that information would be 8 what types of things, the name of the patient, 9 would you ever get that? 10 A. The name of the patient, what 11 drug that they were on, what side effect or 12 adverse event had occurred, were they on other 13 medications. 14 Q. Were they on other medications 15 at the time they were on the medication in 16 question? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Again describing exactly what 20 happened to the patient, we would ask if they 21 were male or female, age of the patient. And my 22 job was not to gather all the information 23 pertaining to this, my job was to report whatever 24 information was given to me from the physician to Page 118 1 the DEU and from there then they would contact 2 the physician and gather whatever information in 3 addition that they would need. 4 Q. When you were trained, did the 5 same instructor that taught you about 6 microbiology and the various different products 7 teach you about this adverse event card and the 8 information that you were supposed to elicit 9 about an adverse experience during your training? 10 A. To the best of my recollection, 11 there was somebody from the DEU that came in and 12 spoke to us about this procedure. 13 Q. Do you recall who that was? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Do you recall the title of who 16 that was? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Was it a man or woman? 19 A. I don't recall that. 20 Q. Was it a day long program or a 21 couple of hours? 22 A. I don't recall, I don't 23 remember it to be a day long program. 24 Q. So it would probably be less Page 119 1 than a day long program? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. When did you actually start 4 detailing the products, the first three, Prozac 5 Keftab and Axid, after the training program was 6 over? 7 A. I don't recall the exact date 8 but I recall it to be approximately the third 9 week of November of '89, third or fourth week. 10 Q. During your training -- I'm 11 just going to go back a little more about your 12 training. During your training program that you 13 began in October of '89, were you ever given any 14 information or did you ever discuss the Wesbecker 15 incident? 16 A. Not to my recollection. 17 Q. Do you have knowledge of the 18 Wesbecker incident, do you know what that is? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what is it, just so I know 21 for the record? 22 A. Wesbecker case where a man went 23 to Standard Gravure and shot some people, it's a 24 very common knowledge in Louisville about the Page 120 1 Wesbecker incident. 2 Q. So where did you learn of the 3 Wesbecker case? 4 A. Initially I guess it was in the 5 media. 6 Q. Have you ever been approached 7 by someone from Eli Lilly to discuss the 8 Wesbecker case? 9 A. Be more specific. 10 Q. Did anybody ever send you 11 information about the Wesbecker case or any 12 documentation that reflected how you were to 13 respond to questions about the Wesbecker case or 14 anything about the Wesbecker case from Lilly? 15 A. The only thing that I recall 16 receiving from Lilly with regards to the 17 Wesbecker case was information from our legal 18 department with regards to discussing these same 19 documents that we have talked about with Ed 20 Stopher and Mary Huff. 21 Q. Did you have to turn the 22 documents that we marked as Exhibit 1 into the 23 legal department? 24 A. What documents are you Page 121 1 referring to? 2 MR. MYERS: These notes. 3 A. When I met with Ed Stopher, I 4 gave him these documents. I don't recall if I 5 was told I had to or how that came about, I just 6 recall that he discussed with me Lee Coleman and 7 I gave him the information that I had with 8 regards to Lee Coleman. 9 Q. All right, we'll get back to 10 those. Did anybody who was in training question 11 any of the instructors or any of the speakers or 12 anyone about the Wesbecker incident? 13 A. Not that I recall. 14 Q. So as far as you can recall, no 15 one ever talked about it, be it an instructor or 16 someone who was being trained with you, anybody, 17 about Wesbecker during that training phase that 18 began in October of '89? 19 A. Correct. 20 MS. MORTIMER: Well, it's noon, do you 21 want to take a break? 22 MR. MYERS: Sure, that will be fine. 23 (A LUNCH BREAK WAS TAKEN.) 24 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Getting back Page 122 1 to the adverse event reporting, when you made the 2 phone calls to the DEU, do you know if they 3 recorded those -- tape recorded those phone 4 calls? 5 A. I do not know that. 6 Q. When you made the phone calls, 7 do you recall the personnel from the DEU asking 8 specific questions to you trying to elicit 9 specific information? 10 A. I remember they asked some 11 questions but I don't remember all the exact 12 questions. I would say -- they would go through 13 sort of a format of asking and I would give them 14 all the information that I could based on what 15 the physician had given me. 16 Q. Do you know if the person that 17 you talked to at the DEU would fill out some kind 18 of form as you were talking to them? 19 A. I do not know. 20 Q. Were you ever told by anyone at 21 Eli Lilly to not report an adverse event? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Were you told by anyone from 24 Eli Lilly to elicit information concerning an Page 123 1 adverse event? In other words were you told by 2 them that upon every visit to a physician you 3 were to ask them whether an adverse event 4 occurred on any of the drugs that you were 5 marketing? 6 A. We were not asked to do that. 7 Q. Did Doctor Lee Coleman ever 8 report an adverse event to you concerning any of 9 the drugs that you were detailing to him? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Have you ever been given 12 information concerning an adverse event that 13 resulted during someone's taking of Prozac among 14 other drugs? 15 A. Say that question again. 16 Q. Sure. You testified earlier 17 that no matter what, if an adverse occurrence 18 happened during a time period where a patient was 19 taking Prozac, then you would automatically 20 report it. 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Have you ever had a situation 23 where you received information about an adverse 24 experience that was reported to you about a Page 124 1 patient that was on Prozac or Fluoxetine? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And do you recall generally 4 what type of adverse experience was reported to 5 you? 6 A. I remember one where a patient 7 had a rash. 8 Q. Do you remember approximately 9 when that was, year-wise? 10 A. No, I really don't, no. 11 Q. Do you recall any others? 12 A. Actually I can remember 13 reporting rash on a few occasions, I reported 14 headaches, those are the ones that I recall at 15 the moment. 16 Q. Has any physician ever reported 17 to you that during a patient's use of Prozac, 18 among other things, they experienced suicidal 19 ideations or violent-aggressive behavior? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Did any medical provider or 22 pharmacist ever tell you that, and not just a 23 physician? 24 A. No. Page 125 1 Q. Do you have an independent 2 recollection of your visits, detailing visits to 3 Doctor Lee Coleman? 4 A. You say do I have an 5 independent, what do you mean by that, 6 independent? 7 Q. I know that you reviewed 8 documents and they have been marked as Exhibit 1 9 and it looks to be notes concerning visits with 10 Doctor Coleman. My question to you is, without 11 looking at the notes, do you have an independent 12 recollection of your initial visit and all the 13 other visits you had with Doctor Coleman? 14 A. I don't recall each individual 15 visit. I generally speaking could discuss visits 16 with Doctor Coleman. 17 Q. So looking at Exhibit 1, which 18 appears to be your notes with respect to your 19 visits with Doctor Coleman, would refresh your 20 recollection with respect to the specifics of 21 what went on during those visits, is that true? 22 A. I can do the best I can by 23 looking at it. 24 Q. So that would be true, it would Page 126 1 refresh your recollection as to some of the 2 specifics of the visits? 3 A. It could. 4 MR. MYERS: Let me -- just so the 5 record is clear though, there is another piece of 6 paper that has at least one note that she made. 7 I don't know if that would refresh her or not. I 8 don't want anybody to think that those -- what 9 makes up Exhibit l are the only notes that have 10 been produced. 11 MS. MORTIMER: For the record, the only 12 notes that were produced to the plaintiffs' 13 attorney's office that were represented to be 14 related to this witness are the first two pages 15 of Exhibit 1. And then there are -- there's a 16 letter that's also been produced and then some 17 notes on a piece of paper that do not appear to 18 be related to specific visits. At the deposition 19 today, the two remaining pages of Exhibit 1 were 20 produced for the first time and counsel has 21 represented -- counsel for Lilly has represented 22 to me that there is an entry on the documents 23 that were produced with respect to Lisa Waddell 24 that relate to Miss Hoffmann. So, why don't we Page 127 1 mark these three pages as Exhibit 3. 2 MR. MYERS: That's fine. 3 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 3 WAS 4 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 5 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 6 (DISCUSSION OFF THE RECORD.) 7 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Ms. 8 Hoffmann, have you had a chance to review 9 Exhibits 1 and Exhibit 3? 10 A. I have looked through them, 11 yes, but do I know them verbatim, no. 12 Q. But you've read them, correct? 13 A. Yes, my chicken scratch. 14 Q. Looking at Exhibit 1 for 15 identification, what is that document? 16 A. This document is called the 17 physician profile, these are notes that we take 18 based on discussions that we have with 19 physicians. 20 Q. Do you have to turn these notes 21 in to anyone? 22 A. No, these are for myself. 23 Q. So you don't have to prepare 24 any kind of report that would reflect these Page 128 1 notes; is that true? 2 A. That's true. 3 Q. Why do you prepare this report? 4 A. This is just for my own benefit 5 so that if I want to remember what we discussed 6 the last time, then I'll have it so that I'll 7 recall what I may have discussed. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. It's not required. 10 Q. Are all of the visits that you 11 had with Doctor Lee Coleman reflected on the 12 documents somewhere within Exhibits 1 and 3? 13 A. Most of them. 14 Q. Okay. Which ones are missing? 15 A. I can't remember every -- I 16 mean most visits that I had with Doctor Coleman, 17 I wrote notes. If there was nothing that I felt 18 I needed to add to the notes, then I may not have 19 written notes about him. 20 Q. So it may be that you had other 21 visits with Doctor Coleman but you did not feel 22 that there was anything that you needed to 23 remember with respect to the visits so you didn't 24 write anything? Page 129 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. Would there be any record 3 within Lilly that would reflect the visits that 4 are not included, if any, on this physician's 5 profile, Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 3? 6 A. I'm not sure. 7 Q. How are you paid as a detailer, 8 is it commission or is it salary or hourly or 9 how's that work? 10 A. I have a base salary and we 11 have a contingent compensation. 12 Q. What does that mean, contingent 13 compensation? 14 A. It's just a bonus that we 15 receive based on the entire company's 16 performance. It's not an individually based 17 commission. 18 Q. So you get a contingent 19 compensation based upon the entire company's 20 sales for a particular year? 21 A. Correct, entire company's 22 performance. 23 Q. Do you receive any kind of 24 extra benefit for making a certain number of Page 130 1 sales each year? In other words, you know, like 2 a gift or anything, something of that nature? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you have a quota that you 5 have to make every year? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What's that quota? 8 A. We're given a quota every year, 9 it's a number that you strive for but certainly 10 isn't the only parameter that they look at in 11 terms of merit, raises, and that sort of thing, 12 promotions, et cetera. 13 Q. When you're evaluated, what 14 kinds of things are you evaluated on on a yearly 15 basis? 16 A. Your relations with your 17 manager, your relations with your district, 18 certainly sales numbers are a part of that, your 19 manager works with you a couple of times a year 20 so they're evaluating you on your sales 21 abilities. 22 Q. Did any manager -- and that's a 23 district manager, I take it, right? 24 A. Yes. Page 131 1 Q. Did any district manager ever 2 go with you on a visit with Doctor Coleman? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Who did? 5 A. Paul Frederick. 6 Q. Anyone else? 7 A. That's all that I recall. 8 Q. Go ahead. Other than the 9 evaluation you received with your district 10 manager on who goes with you on sales calls, are 11 there any other types of things that you're 12 evaluated on other than what you've mentioned? 13 A. Basically, it's a group of 14 parameters that they look at. 15 Q. Are they ever reduced to 16 writing? 17 A. You mean is there a list of 18 things that I'm graded on or whatever? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. Yes, there is a guideline of 21 certain general parameters. 22 Q. And that's something that you 23 have -- you received from someone at Lilly? 24 A. Uh-huh, yes. Page 132 1 Q. Do you remember who you 2 received it from? 3 A. There is a form which is -- 4 it's called a performance evaluation form, called 5 a PA form, and it's just divided into categories. 6 Q. Who did you get it from? 7 A. My manager. 8 Q. And that would have been Curtis 9 or Paul? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Or the other woman, I can't 12 remember her name. And you get a different one 13 every year or another one every year? 14 A. Well, the form changes a little 15 bit but essentially the same form every year and 16 it's a working document between your manager and 17 yourself and you sit down together and discuss. 18 Q. All right. Do you recall the 19 date of your first visit with Doctor Lee Coleman? 20 A. I don't know specifically but I 21 can look here on my -- 11-27 was my first visit 22 with Doctor Coleman. 23 Q. Is that November 27th? 24 A. November 27th of '89. Page 133 1 Q. Are the notes from your visit 2 reflected anywhere on either Exhibit 1 or Exhibit 3 3? 4 A. Of my first visit with Doctor 5 Coleman? 6 Q. Correct. 7 A. Yes, on Exhibit 3. 8 Q. On the second page of Exhibit 9 3? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. So I take it your handwriting 12 is reflected and it's your handwriting that 13 acknowledges November 27th and then the writing 14 to the right of that? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Going back -- let's go to the 17 top of the first page of Exhibit 3. In the upper 18 righthand corner under, quote, R-E-F period, N-O 19 period, unquote, there is a number, what does 20 that number reflect? 21 A. That was a number given to a 22 physician and it was basically on the documents 23 such as this when we would give samples to a 24 physician and it is their reference number that Page 134 1 you would put in the box on the sample card 2 showing the physician identification number. 3 Q. That number then identifies 4 Doctor Lee Coleman, correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Do you know if that number 7 would identify Doctor Lee Coleman on any other 8 documents besides the sample cards that you would 9 turn in and this physician profile? 10 A. That's all that I'm aware of. 11 Q. Then directly below that 12 number, it says, quote, addition, unquote, and 13 under that it says, quote, five slash two five 14 slash eighty-eight, unquote. What does that 15 refer to, addition May 25th '88? 16 A. I don't know if it was the 17 previous rep had requested an additional page for 18 Doctor Lee Coleman. We would periodically 19 receive updated -- not updated but blank forms 20 from which that we could replace the old with the 21 new forms so that was probably just when this was 22 printed, but again I don't know exactly what that 23 refers to. 24 Q. This is a carbon copy of a form Page 135 1 and if you could tell me, does this -- is this 2 normally all the information in the way the form 3 is reflected on the first page, is that the first 4 page of the actual -- the original document? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. And while these forms 7 are not mandatory, is it your testimony that you 8 are sent the physician profiles with the typed 9 information on the top and then you just fill out 10 the bottom, if you want to, is that how it works? 11 A. Let me clarify this so it's 12 understood. When you start as a representative, 13 you're given a book that has blank or, you know, 14 if you have from the previous rep, like this is 15 here, notes. You may have additional pages of 16 blank ones in the back that you just replace the 17 new with the old so that you can make additional 18 notes. This top information is just the basic 19 information about the physician and Indianapolis 20 is not going to put the information about who the 21 receptionist and the nurse and the office hours, 22 those are things that you fill in that are to 23 help you to remember what days are the best to 24 go, what are the best times to go. So that's it, Page 136 1 a changing list and something that we update as 2 we get new profile sheets, but -- 3 Q. So when you begin as a 4 detailer, you get a book like this with -- for 5 every doctor and every medical provider that you 6 are supposed -- 7 A. Not always, I mean sometimes -- 8 it just depends on the particular assignment 9 you're in question. When I started this job, I 10 was given a profile book that had some of Mister 11 Kushner's notes about different physicians and I 12 was given this and I basically just had that to 13 look at if I wanted. But I basically started on 14 11-27 and I just took my own notes from my visits 15 with Doctor Coleman and went from there and 16 collected my own information. 17 Q. Does the word addition in the 18 upper righthand corner of Exhibit 3 indicate to 19 you that there may have been a book that preceded 20 the book that contained the information contained 21 in the first page of Exhibit 3? 22 A. I really don't know but -- like 23 I said, I don't know. This addition could have 24 been just -- I don't know if he requested it or Page 137 1 if it was just in the book that he received that 2 was an additional page, I really don't know. 3 Q. Did you receive one book on 4 every physician that you were assigned to when 5 you started? 6 A. The book that I received had a 7 number of physicians, I don't remember if it was 8 every physician that I called on but it had some 9 information about different physicians. 10 Q. What other things were you 11 given when you started detailing after the 12 initial training session? 13 A. What was I given after the 14 initial training session? 15 Q. Correct, to do your job. 16 A. To do my job, I was given a lot 17 of forms, like administrative forms, expense 18 report forms, just my sample cards. I was given 19 various manuals, a PDR, a Merck Manual, I was 20 given resources like that. 21 Q. Is the Merck Manual the 22 dictionary or it's kind of like a -- 23 A. It's a medical dictionary. 24 Q. And the PDR is a physicians Page 138 1 desk reference? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. We've already discussed the 4 sample cards, correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Other than the expense reports, 7 can you think of any other administrative forms 8 that you were given when you first started your 9 job? 10 A. Expense reports, there was a 11 call report, there was a sample log, insurance 12 reports. Those are all that I can remember. 13 Q. What's the insurance reports? 14 A. That was on my personal 15 insurance. 16 Q. And what's a call report? 17 A. A call report is just a 18 document that shows the number of physicians that 19 I see a day by classification. 20 Q. What do you mean by 21 classification? 22 A. If the physician was a 23 psychiatrist, whether the physician was a primary 24 care physician or family practitioner. Page 139 1 Q. Did you have to turn the call 2 reports in to anyone? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Who? 5 A. I sent a copy to Indianapolis 6 and also a copy to my district manager. 7 Q. Would the call report contain 8 notes concerning each visit as the physician's 9 profile does? 10 A. No, the call report just showed 11 numbers. For example, on Monday if I saw five 12 psychiatrists, I would put in the box that I saw 13 five psychiatrists and two family practice 14 doctors and that was it. 15 Q. What kind of manuals did you 16 receive? 17 A. Well, there was an employee 18 manual which just describes the policies of the 19 company, there was the manual that that I got in 20 sales training which had all the information that 21 we'd discussed there. 22 Q. And that's concerning the drugs 23 and the sales? 24 A. That we discussed earlier. Page 140 1 Q. Anything else? 2 A. I think I mentioned those 3 textbooks, let me see if there's anything else I 4 recall. 5 Q. Textbooks, I don't recall you 6 mentioning textbooks. 7 A. I mean PDR and Merck Manual. 8 Q. Anything else? 9 A. Not that I recall, all the 10 administrative forms that I discussed with you. 11 Q. Okay. Going back to Exhibit 3 12 in the center of the top box, it says territory 13 number and then there's a number under that. 14 A. I'm not seeing where you're 15 talking about. That was his territory number. 16 Q. That was his territory number? 17 A. Uh-huh, or the territory, like 18 Louisville East territory number at the time. 19 Q. So, does that refresh your 20 recollection as to earlier testimony that you 21 recall your current territory number, is this 22 your old territory number? 23 A. This not my old territory 24 number. Page 141 1 Q. Do doctors have their own 2 specific territory number and Dista 3 representatives have their own territory numbers? 4 A. Doctors have a reference number 5 which is reflected up in the top corner which, as 6 I mentioned before, is the number that is 7 correlated on the sample card. The territory 8 number is the number that reflects the territory, 9 being Louisville East, and as I mentioned also, 10 this is a number that has changed a few times 11 over the course of my employment with Lilly, this 12 was a territory number that was not mine that I 13 recall. 14 Q. Since the person that you 15 testified wrote on this report other than you is 16 Ross Kushner, could that have been his territory 17 number? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Is that a place where when you 20 filled out your own or when you started your own 21 physician profile you would put your territory 22 number? 23 A. It may come to me with the 24 territory number, this is generated from Page 142 1 Indianapolis what the territory number was so if 2 it was blank, I may or may not put that in there. 3 It's not -- it wasn't an important number for my 4 reference. 5 Q. Going down the handwriting 6 that's in the narrative portion under drug of 7 choice and indication, that is not your 8 handwriting, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you have any personal 11 knowledge as to whose handwriting that is? 12 A. To my knowledge this is Ross 13 Kushner's writing. 14 Q. Who told you that this was Ross 15 Kushner's writing, if you recall? 16 A. When I received this 17 information from my manager, as this was his 18 profile book that he had as a Dista 19 representative. 20 Q. Have you ever spoken with Ross 21 Kushner? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Have you ever spoken with Ross 24 Kushner about his visits with Doctor Lee Coleman? Page 143 1 A. No, none that I recall. 2 Q. What did you talk about with 3 Ross Kushner when you talked with him, if you 4 recall? 5 A. He's a pharmacist at K-Mart so 6 on the visits that I remember, we discussed 7 providing pharmacists continuing education 8 materials. 9 Q. So you went to the K-Mart where 10 he worked? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Did you have any conversation 13 that was not business related that would maybe 14 indicate where Mister Kushner lives, did he ever 15 tell you I'm going home to my kids and tell you 16 where he lived? 17 A. Not that I recall. 18 Q. Going to the second page of 19 Exhibit 3, you testified earlier that the writing 20 concerning November 27, 1989, was your 21 handwriting, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Is the ten dash fifteen, that 24 is a reference to the number of patients using Page 144 1 Prozac and that's not a reference to October 2 15th, correct? 3 A. Correct. And what that means 4 is at that point he vocalized to me that in ten 5 to fifteen patients, he was using Prozac. 6 Q. And it's true that the other 7 handwriting that's on that page is not yours, 8 correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Do you have any personal 11 knowledge as to the visits that Doctor Coleman 12 had with Ross Kushner? 13 A. This is the only information 14 that I have with regards to -- 15 Q. Those visits? 16 A. -- those visits. 17 Q. And the very first time you 18 ever had contact with Doctor Coleman, Doctor Lee 19 Coleman, was on November 27, 1989, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Did you ever know Doctor Lee 22 Coleman prior to November 27, 1989? 23 A. No, I did not. 24 Q. Did you ever meet Doctor Lee Page 145 1 Coleman prior to November 27, 1989? 2 A. No, I did not. 3 Q. You said that your first note 4 with respect to the November 27, 1989 visit was 5 with respect to Doctor Coleman's representation 6 to you that ten to fifteen patients were using 7 Prozac, is that -- is the number of patients that 8 a doctor has on Prozac a piece of information 9 that you are required to get from the doctors? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Okay. So if he didn't mention 12 it, you wouldn't ask? 13 A. Not necessarily. 14 Q. What was your purpose with 15 respect to detailing to Doctor Lee Coleman? 16 A. My purpose with Doctor Lee 17 Coleman was the same as my purpose with other 18 physicians, is to detail my product. 19 Q. Did you detail all three of 20 your products to Doctor Lee Coleman? 21 A. No. 22 Q. When I say three products, I 23 mean the Prozac, Keftab, or Axid? 24 A. Correct, Prozac is the only one Page 146 1 I detailed to Doctor Coleman. 2 Q. Has Doctor Coleman been 3 assigned to you or in your territory during the 4 entire period that you worked as a detailer for 5 Lilly? 6 A. Can you say that again? 7 Q. During the time that you worked 8 at Lilly, has there ever been a situation or an 9 inclusive time period where you were not assigned 10 to detail to Doctor Lee Coleman? 11 A. No. 12 Q. So you've always been assigned 13 to Doctor Lee Coleman? 14 A. Right, and then Lisa came as a 15 psych-only representative in the Spring of '93 16 and so I'm not required to see him as regularly 17 as I perhaps saw him before. 18 Q. So from November 27th of '89 to 19 the Spring of '93 when Lisa Waddell started, what 20 or how often were you supposed to see Doctor 21 Coleman? 22 A. I wasn't required to see Doctor 23 Coleman on any certain amount of time. It was up 24 to me and based on the need to see Doctor Page 147 1 Coleman, I would decide. There was some times 2 where I would see him every month and there were 3 other times in that period where I would see him 4 every three of four months, just depending on the 5 situation. 6 Q. What situation would produce a 7 need to see Doctor Coleman? 8 A. Well, if I was in the office 9 building where he was working and it was on a day 10 that he was in the office and that the time -- 11 you know, it was the right time to see him, then 12 I would go in there, or if his office were to 13 call me and they needed some samples or he wanted 14 some kind of information about Prozac. 15 Q. For what indication did you 16 detail Prozac to Doctor Lee Coleman? 17 A. Depression. 18 Q. Have you ever detailed Prozac 19 to Doctor Coleman for any indication other than 20 depression? 21 A. He may have asked me about 22 another indication where I would have referred 23 him to Indianapolis. But in terms of what I have 24 detailed Doctor Coleman on, the literature that I Page 148 1 have shared with Doctor Coleman was based on our 2 updated package inserts for Prozac. 3 Q. Related to depression? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. So if a physician asked you 6 about Prozac or one of the other drugs with 7 respect to an indication for which you were not 8 trained, you would refer them to Indianapolis? 9 A. For example, if they asked me 10 about an indication for which we do not have an 11 indication, for example bulimia, then I would say 12 to Doctor Coleman, this is where -- an indication 13 which we do not have, I do not have any 14 information to share with you about this, I will 15 refer you to our medical department. And I would 16 write a letter to medical. 17 Q. And what would you say in the 18 letter? 19 A. I would say Dear Medical, 20 Doctor Coleman has requested any information 21 regarding the use of Prozac for bulimia. 22 Q. And then do you follow up to 23 make sure the letter is sent or do you just 24 assume that it's sent? Page 149 1 A. As I recall, when you do that, 2 you get some information saying that the 3 physician received the information. 4 MS. MORTIMER: If we could mark this as 5 Hoffman Exhibit 4. 6 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 4 WAS 7 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 8 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 9 Q. If you could read that for me. 10 (THE WITNESS COMPLIES.) 11 Q. Have you read it? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. I understand that the first 14 page of Exhibit 4 is dated March 7, 1988, and 15 this was before you started training with Eli 16 Lilly? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. My purpose with respect to 19 Exhibit 4 and your testimony is just to have you 20 look at the second and third page of this 21 exhibit. Would these be subjects of medical 22 letters that, for example, if Doctor Coleman 23 wanted information concerning Prozac and a rash, 24 were you provided with a list similar to the list Page 150 1 on the second and third pages of these exhibits 2 which would show you subjects of medical letters? 3 A. I have not seen a list like 4 this before. 5 Q. So you don't know whether this 6 list is a list of medical letter subjects? 7 MR. MYERS: Before she answers that, I 8 object to the form only because that's what the 9 first page says it is. 10 MS. MORTIMER: I understand, but since 11 it's dated prior to her time with Lilly, if you 12 want to admit that those are subjects, that's 13 fine, I'm just trying to get that information. 14 MR. MYERS: I'm not admitting anything, 15 just saying what it says. 16 MS. MORTIMER: I understand. 17 Q. Christy, do you know if the 18 list reflected on pages two and three of Exhibit 19 4 are lists of medical letter subjects? 20 A. From looking at this, I do not 21 know what this is a list of. It could be a list 22 of medical letters, I don't know that for 23 certain. 24 Q. Okay. You were never provided Page 151 1 with a list of medical letter subjects, is that 2 true? 3 A. No, that's true. 4 Q. Have you ever seen a medical 5 letter that is sent to a doctor in response to 6 your written request? 7 A. I may have seen one that a 8 physician showed me, but I don't even recall a 9 topic. But I'm not sent one from the company. 10 Q. I understand. So you start the 11 ball rolling and somebody in the medical 12 department sends this letter, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. I want to to show you what 15 we'll mark as Hoffman Group Exhibit 5. 16 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 5 WAS 17 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 18 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 19 Q. You don't have to read the 20 letters verbatim. If you want to, go ahead. But 21 if you want to just look at them, do an overview. 22 (THE WITNESS COMPLIES.) 23 Q. Have you had a chance to look 24 at Group Exhibit, Hoffman Group Exhibit 5? Page 152 1 A. Uh-huh. 2 MR. MYERS: Yes. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. It's composed of three letters, 5 the first one is dated March 9, 1990, and 6 consists of six pages, the second letter is dated 7 March 22, 1990, and consists of three pages and 8 the last one is dated January 8, 1992, and 9 consists of four pages, is that true? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Okay. On the first paragraph 12 of each letter, it states that the doctor 13 requested information from a Christine Kammer and 14 Christine Hoffman, that's you? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Does this refresh your 17 recollection as to the medical information letter 18 that you saw when that one physician showed it to 19 you? 20 A. It looks like the one I had 21 seen. Again, I didn't read the whole thing, but 22 I recall at some point a physician showing me 23 that they did receive it. 24 Q. So is it fair to say that these Page 153 1 letters may have been the letters that were sent 2 as a result of you calling in to the medical 3 department, is that the department you called it? 4 A. What I've done in these 5 circumstances is that in my discussions with 6 Doctor Coleman, he had requested information 7 about this so I'd written a letter in to medical 8 saying, dear medical, Doctor Coleman would like 9 some information regarding x or y. So these 10 appears to be those letters. 11 Q. Do you know if Doctor Coleman 12 asked you about any other indication or 13 information that would have elicited more than 14 just these three letters? 15 MR. MYERS: Are you asking did he ask 16 her about different subjects? 17 MS. MORTIMER: Other than these three, 18 that may have instigated the sending of letters 19 other than these three. 20 A. I don't recall that there are 21 but there may be. Like I have said before, if in 22 my discussion with Doctor Coleman he requested 23 information about any topic that I, because of 24 the labeling within the package insert, couldn't Page 154 1 give him an answer, didn't have information, I 2 would write the medical department and I would 3 say Doctor Coleman would like information 4 regarding x or y topic. 5 Q. And the only information that 6 you were to speak with Doctor Coleman about would 7 have been the information contained in the 8 package insert and the information that was sent 9 to you as authorized by Lilly, correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And you were not carbon copied 12 on any of these medical letters, were you? 13 A. Not to my recollection. 14 Q. So after you wrote the letter 15 to medical requesting that they send information 16 to Doctor Coleman, you have no knowledge as to 17 what specific information they sent or the basis 18 of that information, is that true? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. When you first received this 21 profile book and before you went to see Doctor 22 Lee Coleman on November 27, 1989, did you have 23 the opportunity to read the notes that were made 24 by Mister Kushner? Page 155 1 A. I was given this information 2 before I went to training, in a box, and I don't 3 recall that I looked at this prior to that. I 4 may have looked at this before I went to see 5 Doctor Coleman, it's a little difficult to read, 6 so -- 7 Q. Was there any information that 8 you wanted to find out from Mister Kushner's 9 notes that would aid you in your first visit to 10 Doctor Coleman on the 27th? 11 A. The main information that I 12 looked at was the address, the best times to see 13 him, and the days off, and I don't recall 14 spending a lot of time looking through the other 15 information. I just went from my own visits with 16 Doctor Coleman and established my own notes and 17 information. 18 Q. Did Doctor Coleman ever speak 19 to you about his contact with Doctor -- with Ross 20 Kushner? 21 A. Not to my recollection. 22 Q. Did Doctor Lee Coleman ever 23 talk to you about his patient, Mister Wesbecker? 24 A. I recall, I believe, on the Page 156 1 first visit it was mentioned because I didn't 2 know how he would react to wanting to see me 3 because I was a new representative and this had 4 all happened. So I remember us discussing the 5 fact that this was a legal issue that we would 6 rather just continue to have a business 7 relationship and would not be discussing the 8 Wesbecker case -- 9 Q. Did you bring up -- 10 A. -- in any specific terms. 11 Q. Did you bring up the Wesbecker 12 case on the first visit? 13 A. As I recall, I went into the 14 office and introduced myself and the best that I 15 can recall he brought up, you know, that I was 16 the physician treating Mister Wesbecker and I 17 said that I remembered seeing that in the 18 newspapers and again he said, as I said before, 19 that it was fine if I came to call on him but he 20 did not want to discuss the matters of the case 21 and I in turn said as well that my purpose in 22 coming to the office was to be a detail 23 representative and it was not appropriate to 24 discuss the case with him. Page 157 1 Q. Was that your first and last 2 discussion with Doctor Lee Coleman about the 3 Wesbecker case? 4 A. There may have been other 5 discussions but they were from a very general 6 nature, just perhaps that he was tired of all the 7 depositions or something along those lines, 8 nothing at all specific. 9 Q. Did you bring up those other 10 conversations about Wesbecker? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Was anyone else present when 13 you had conversations with Doctor Lee Coleman 14 about the Wesbecker case? 15 A. The only other time that I 16 recall is when my first manager, Paul Frederick, 17 he went with me on this first call to see Doctor 18 Coleman. 19 Q. Did he speak with Doctor Lee 20 Coleman in your presence about the Wesbecker 21 case? When I say he, I mean Mister Frederick. 22 A. He heard the same conversation 23 that I just described and I don't recall him 24 saying anything additional. Page 158 1 Q. Did Mister Frederick talk to 2 you before you went to see Doctor Coleman about 3 the Wesbecker case? 4 A. I don't recall him saying much 5 about it at all. 6 Q. Did he say anything to you 7 about it? 8 A. All that I recall, I actually -- 9 he happened to be working with me that day and I 10 wanted to go to that building and meet the 11 psychiatrists in that building so he was with me 12 and it was mentioned that that was the physician 13 in the case but it wasn't anything more than 14 that. 15 Q. On that initial visit, what, if 16 any, documentation did you -- or samples or 17 anything did you bring with you to give to Doctor 18 Coleman? 19 A. Again, I can't remember 20 specific exactly what the number of samples I 21 gave him or even if I left him samples, but the 22 information that I would have given him if I 23 wanted to would have been the promotional 24 materials which were indicated by the company to Page 159 1 discuss with Doctor Coleman, and had he requested 2 samples, I would have had him sign a form for 3 which we discussed as well, which he would sign 4 and I would then leave him samples. 5 Q. So the only thing you can 6 recall giving Doctor Coleman on that initial 7 visit would have been promotional material and 8 samples maybe? 9 A. Samples maybe and maybe some 10 pens. 11 Q. When you say promotional 12 material, do you have any specific recollection 13 as to what specific promotional material you gave 14 to Doctor Coleman on that initial visit? 15 A. I don't recall the specific 16 promotional piece. 17 Q. Would there be anything that 18 would refresh your recollection as to the 19 specific material that you gave to Doctor Lee 20 Coleman on November 27, 1989? 21 A. Not that I'm aware of. 22 Q. Are there any documents that 23 you have to fill out after each visit that would 24 reflect what specifically you gave to the doctor Page 160 1 other than the sample cards you already 2 described? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Typically on an initial visit, 5 what promotional material would you give to a 6 doctor, a psychiatrist? 7 A. On a first visit? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. On the first visit, my primary 10 goal would be to get to know the office and I 11 might not even see the doctor depending on if 12 they were in or not or what have you. 13 Q. Did Doctor Coleman tell you 14 that he already had materials that were given to 15 him by Mister Kushner? 16 A. We didn't discuss Ross Kushner. 17 Q. So you don't know what, if 18 anything, Doctor Lee Coleman had from Lilly as of 19 the day you went there on November 27, 1989? 20 A. I do not know. 21 Q. Could you please read me the 22 narrative portion of the November 27th entry? 23 A. Again, this is my writing and 24 it's chicken scratch as well so I'll do the best Page 161 1 that I can. From what I recall, ten to fifteen 2 patients using Prozac, primary and secondary 3 usage, reservation on using Prozac with -- what I 4 meant to say with agitated patient, uses Pamelor 5 for agitation. Wesbecker discussed, not a big 6 issue, sleep disturbances, gave psych binder. 7 Q. You already testified that he 8 told you that ten to fifteen of his patients were 9 using Prozac, is that true? 10 A. From what I recall, I remember 11 him saying to me that he had approximately ten to 12 fifteen patients on Prozac. 13 Q. What did you mean by primary 14 and secondary usage in that note? 15 A. I meant there that he spoke to 16 me that he uses Prozac as a first choice and a 17 second choice. 18 Q. What does that mean? 19 A. That means that he would use 20 Prozac in a patient starting them for the first 21 time on Prozac and sometimes he would use it 22 after he's used another antidepressant. Perhaps 23 if the second one did not work, then he would go 24 to another agent which would mean secondary Page 162 1 usage. 2 Q. You also note, quote, 3 reservations on using Prozac with, does that say 4 agitation? 5 A. Yes. Well, what that refers to 6 is using Prozac with a patient who has agitation, 7 agitated symptoms of the depression. 8 Q. To make sure I'm clear on this, 9 reservations with using Prozac with patients who 10 have what now? 11 A. Who have agitation, who are 12 agitated like there is a -- if you're depressed, 13 one of the symptoms of depression can be that you 14 are agitated. 15 Q. Did he tell you why he had that 16 reservation? 17 A. I don't recall what he said. I 18 just recall he said that he had reservations 19 about using it there, and I get the impression 20 that he felt like maybe Pamelor might work better 21 for that patient. 22 Q. What is Pamelor? 23 A. Pamelor is a tricyclic. 24 Q. Antidepressant, correct? Page 163 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. What did you say, if anything, 3 in response to Doctor Coleman's statement that he 4 had reservations about using Prozac with 5 depressed patients that had a symptom of 6 agitation? 7 A. I don't know for certain what I 8 did do, but what I may have done would have been 9 to use our promotional piece which showed that 10 Prozac works in patients who have anxious 11 symptoms associated with their depression. 12 Q. What forms did these 13 promotional pieces come in? 14 A. What do you mean? 15 Q. Were they pamphlets, brochures, 16 what were they? 17 A. The best of my -- we've had 18 different ones, but it was like a brochure, like 19 a -- not like a book but like a pamphlet 20 brochure, kind of like a -- 21 Q. Do you know who wrote the 22 promotional piece that you would have given in a 23 situation such as the situation where Doctor 24 Coleman said he had reservations on using Prozac? Page 164 1 A. Do I know who wrote something 2 that I may have used in this situation? No. 3 Q. Do you know if it was something 4 that was typically generated by Lilly or another 5 entity? 6 A. This was a promotional piece 7 which I received from Lilly, which I don't know 8 where the studies that would be in that piece 9 were from or they are referenced on those 10 brochures, but from the top of my head, I don't 11 know. 12 Q. And then under that it says 13 Wesbecker discussed and not a big issue and have 14 I exhausted your recollection as to what was said 15 concerning Wesbecker? 16 A. As I mentioned before, there 17 wasn't much mentioned about it and we were moving 18 on from that incident and our relationship from 19 that point on was a business relationship where I 20 came in to detail him about information with 21 Prozac and we were not going to discuss the case 22 specifics. 23 Q. And then it says, quote, not a 24 big issue, unquote, what did you mean by that? Page 165 1 A. What I mean by that is I 2 thought maybe he would not want to see me at all 3 or be unwilling to see a detail representative or 4 because of his situation would be uncomfortable 5 speaking with me. That was what I meant. 6 Q. Under that it says sleep 7 disturbances, what was that a note with respect 8 to? 9 A. Probably what I was meaning 10 there again -- I can't say for certain but I may 11 have been thinking of next time bringing up 12 something about discussing a patient who's 13 depressed that has sleeping problems with him. 14 Q. So is it true that it may have 15 been that he mentioned sleep disturbance as a 16 side effect of Prozac and you were going to bring 17 a piece of literature or some kind of promotional 18 piece the next time on sleep disturbances? 19 A. I didn't take that for that. 20 What I'm thinking from that is the next time that 21 I went to see him, because sleep disturbances are 22 a common symptom of depression, that I would talk 23 about sleep disturbances as a symptom of 24 depression. Page 166 1 Q. And then under that it says 2 gave P-S-Y period binder. 3 A. Psych binder. 4 Q. Do you know what binder that 5 is? 6 A. I don't recall specifically 7 what it was, but generally it was a binder that 8 we were giving to psychiatrists which had various 9 articles on Prozac at the time. But I don't 10 remember specific articles and I don't remember 11 titles. 12 Q. And this was a binder that was 13 given to you by Eli Lilly? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Then on the last page of 16 Exhibit 3, there is handwriting in the narrative 17 portion, is that yours? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Do you know whose handwriting 20 that is? 21 A. Lisa Waddell's. 22 Q. In the upper righthand corner, 23 it says request, on page 3 of Exhibit 3, and then 24 there's a date, February 19, l993. Do you have Page 167 1 any idea what that refers to? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Have you ever spoken with Lisa 4 Waddell about her visits with Doctor Coleman? 5 A. Not specifically. 6 Q. Have you ever talked to her 7 generally about her contact with Doctor Coleman? 8 A. When Lisa took the position in 9 the Spring of '93, we discussed generally all the 10 psychiatrists in Louisville that she would be 11 calling on. And what I mean generally, I mean 12 giving their addresses, times to see, days off, 13 that kind of information. 14 Q. So other than that, you didn't 15 talk to her about the specifics of a visit? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did she ever tell you that 18 Doctor Lee Coleman talked to her about the 19 Wesbecker case? 20 A. Not to my knowledge. 21 Q. On the first page of Exhibit 3 22 in the middle of the document under where it 23 says, quote, other profile information, close 24 quote, there's a sentence under there, is that Page 168 1 your handwriting? 2 A. This where it says Pat says? 3 Q. Yes. 4 A. No, that's not my handwriting. 5 Q. There's a reference there to a 6 Fleming. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you have any idea what he 9 means by that? If you don't, tell me. 10 A. Fleming is Doctor Coleman's 11 partner. 12 Q. Did you detail to Doctor 13 Fleming? 14 A. Very rarely. 15 Q. Are you assigned to him? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. You say that with not such a 18 great attitude. 19 A. He doesn't like to see sales 20 representatives. 21 Q. Do you know why that is? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Do you or have you ever 24 attempted to detail Prozac to Doctor Fleming? Page 169 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Has he been responsive to your 3 efforts? 4 A. I don't recall that I've ever 5 actually sat down and spoken with him at any 6 length about Prozac. I may have on occasion left 7 him some information and spoke with him passing 8 in the hallway, that's about the extent of my 9 visits with Doctor Fleming. 10 Q. Has he ever reported an adverse 11 event that one of his patients had experienced, 12 if any -- 13 A. I don't recall. 14 Q. -- during the time that the 15 patient took Prozac? 16 A. I don't recall any. 17 Q. Do you know if anybody else 18 details Prozac to Doctor Fleming? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. If I could direct your 21 attention to Exhibit 1, that's Hoffman Exhibit 1. 22 On the first page of Hoffman Exhibit 1 in the 23 upper right quadrant, it says, quote, request, 24 unquote, and under that is the date November 1, Page 170 1 1989. Do you know what that refers to? 2 A. We have discussed this about 3 three times now, and again, as I said before, I 4 do not know exactly what this means. 5 Q. Who would know? 6 A. I really don't know. It 7 appears that it is a paper that I received, 8 possibly because I'm a new representative, to 9 start new notes about Doctor Coleman. 10 Q. I may have asked you this one 11 as well, but where did you or who sent you these 12 physician profiles? 13 A. Indianapolis. 14 Q. What department? 15 A. I do not know. 16 Q. Did you ever have to detail the 17 drugs to your assigned physician's personnel, in 18 other words to a receptionist or a nurse? 19 A. In general? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. In general, I've detailed 22 Prozac to a nurse before. 23 Q. Were you assigned to that 24 specific nurse or did you just detail to her Page 171 1 because she worked with a physician? 2 A. We are not necessarily assigned 3 to certain nurses or secretaries. I may on 4 occasion discuss Prozac with a nurse. 5 Q. Going down to the narrative 6 portion of the first page of Exhibit 1, it says 7 one slash eleven and then there's some narrative. 8 Is all the narrative that's written on that first 9 page and the balance of and all of the second 10 page your handwriting? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What year does that refer to? 13 A. This is, the best that I can 14 recall, January of '90. 15 Q. Could you read the entry for 16 January 11, 1990? 17 A. Had lengthy discussion about 18 using Prozac in attorney who cannot sleep but 19 needs to stay alert. He said he tried Pamelor 20 first. If the patient cannot tolerate, then he 21 would use Prozac. We discussed the trade off of 22 side effects for insomnia, said if he saw that 23 attorney, he would try Prozac. Has twenty to 24 twenty-five patients on Prozac, says he has had Page 172 1 some patients who have even felt sedated with 2 Prozac. 3 Q. Do you know who the attorney 4 was that he was referring to? 5 A. This was just a patient that I 6 had been discussing, it wasn't a particular 7 person. When we give a detail, many times we 8 describe a certain patient, I may go in and 9 describe a nurse, I may go in and describe a 10 teacher, it's a made up fictional person, it's 11 not necessarily attorney J down the street or any 12 one like that. 13 Q. So when you went there on 14 January 11, 1990, you initiated a discussion with 15 Doctor Coleman about an example of any attorney 16 who couldn't sleep and -- 17 A. What I was discussing was an 18 attorney who was -- who came in to him, that was 19 a depressed patient who is unable to sleep but 20 needs to stay alert. 21 Q. So was it a patient that he had 22 or was it a made up patient? 23 A. It was a made up patient that 24 he might see. I was saying, for example, if a Page 173 1 patient came in to you who was an attorney that 2 was a depressed patient who needed to stay alert, 3 that was my approach with him. It had nothing to 4 do with a specific patient, it was just in 5 general a patient that I was describing for the 6 purpose of talking about patients. 7 Q. And in response to your 8 example, he said that he would try Pamelor first 9 in that situation and then if the fictional 10 patient could not tolerate the Pamelor, then he 11 would try Prozac, is that true? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. When you say, quote, we 14 discussed the trade off side effects for 15 insomnia, close quote, what did you mean by that? 16 A. The point that I was referring 17 to there is that tricyclics have a lot of side 18 effects, and that although sometimes Prozac 19 doesn't help when a patient has insomnia 20 initially, meaning that a tricyclic is a sedating 21 antidepressant, that it's a trade off because 22 you're going to have a lot of side effects 23 traditionally with tricyclics, for example, dry 24 mouth, blurred vision are known side effects of Page 174 1 tricyclics, and so it's a trade off of those side 2 effects versus telling the patient who has this 3 insomnia to stick with it and as your depression 4 gets better, this symptom of your depression will 5 improve. 6 Q. When you have these 7 discussions, all of the information that you 8 would give to the doctor, such as the fact that -- 9 your discussion about tricyclics, was that 10 information given to you by Lilly and based on 11 studies and trials that Lilly represented to you 12 it conducted, true? 13 A. The information that I 14 represented to him would have again been similar 15 to the promotional pieces that we discussed that 16 I received in training that would have various 17 different things in there about studies, and 18 again, I don't recall exactly where those came 19 from. 20 Q. And again, you never conducted 21 any studies on your own or did any personal 22 research as to whether the information that you 23 were being given was accurate? 24 A. Correct. Page 175 1 Q. And in turn you never did any 2 research or conducted any studies on your own to 3 determine whether the information you were giving 4 the doctor was accurate? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And that's true in all of your 7 representations to Doctor Coleman and not just 8 the representation that you just discussed with 9 respect to January 11, 1989, true? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. I'm sorry, January 11, 1990, 12 true? 13 A. Correct, sorry. 14 Q. The next line says, I believe, 15 quote, said if he saw that attorney he would try 16 Prozac. What does that mean in light of what you 17 previously stated about how he would first try 18 Pamelor? 19 A. After our discussions with the 20 trade offs of side effects with tricyclics, based 21 on what I had discussed with him, he said in that 22 situation he might try Prozac. 23 Q. So you were able to persuade 24 him that Prozac was the better choice than Page 176 1 Pamelor and he decided based upon your 2 representations that he would choose Prozac 3 instead of Pamelor as his first choice in that 4 situation? 5 A. What he said was that he might 6 consider using Prozac in that particular patient, 7 according to what I can recall from this. 8 Q. And then the last lines 9 basically speak for themselves, but let me know 10 if there is any additional information that you 11 recall with respect to them. He told you that he 12 had twenty to twenty-five patients on Prozac, is 13 that true? 14 A. Uh-huh, yes, correct. 15 Q. Is that a -- again is that 16 something that you asked him or did he -- 17 A. I don't recall if I asked him 18 or not from how I can read it, he may have told 19 me that. 20 Q. Okay. And then he also said 21 that he had some patients who were sedated on 22 Prozac. Did he give you any other information 23 with respect to those that you can remember? 24 A. Not that I can recall. It Page 177 1 appears this was pretty general information he 2 was giving me. 3 Q. Do you want to take a break? 4 A. Yes, please. 5 (A SHORT RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 6 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Let's go to 7 the second page of Exhibit 1, looks like the 8 April 10. 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. I guess we are not done with 11 the first page, let's go back to Exhibit 1, first 12 page of Exhibit 1 being March 1, 1990, entry. Is 13 that the correct date? 14 A. Yes, to the best that I can 15 recall. 16 Q. Could you read that entry? 17 A. Pamelor still is the number one 18 choice. However, he had a patient who could not 19 tolerate the side effects with Pamelor, he put 20 the agitated patient on Prozac and is doing 21 great. Stressed that Prozac works on a variety 22 of patients, asked me to write a medical letter 23 about blood levels and about patients who had 24 panic attacks with Prozac -- no, correction, Page 178 1 asked me to write a medical letter about blood 2 levels and I'm -- he was discussing a patient and 3 he had heard that had panic attacks and was 4 wanting to know -- and also noted she had 5 multiple sclerosis. 6 Q. The very first phrase is 7 Pamelor is still number one choice. Is that 8 something that you ask the psychiatrists and did 9 you ask Doctor Coleman, what is your number one 10 choice? 11 A. I don't recall if I asked him 12 that. That may -- he may have told me that, I 13 don't recall. 14 Q. Is that something you normally 15 ask or normally try to find out in your job, is 16 to find out out what the physician or 17 psychiatrist's number one choice is? 18 A. No, not necessarily. 19 Q. Later it says, stressed that 20 Prozac works on a variety of patients. Is that 21 something you stressed or something he stressed, 22 if you recall? 23 A. What I can recall of that is 24 that we were discussing, I don't know if that Page 179 1 means that I stressed or he stressed, that Prozac 2 works in a variety of patients, and what I mean 3 by that would be patients who either had a lot of 4 sleeping problems or a patient who was sleeping 5 all the time, that for depression would work on. 6 Q. So you don't recall if you 7 stressed it or if he stressed it? 8 A. I don't recall. 9 Q. And then it goes on, you note 10 that you were asked to write a medical letter 11 about blood levels. Is that the situation where 12 you would have written a letter to the medical 13 department at Indianapolis and they would have 14 generated a medical letter about blood levels in 15 Prozac? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Later it says, want to know -- 18 reflects a patient had a panic attack with Prozac 19 and that she had multiple sclerosis. Was that a 20 fictional patient or was that somebody that he -- 21 A. From what I can recall, he was -- 22 and again, I don't know exactly, but it appears 23 to me that he was describing something that he 24 had heard about, it wasn't a specific patient, Page 180 1 but he was wanting to know about multiple 2 sclerosis, anything that I knew, and I probably 3 wrote a letter to medical saying please send him 4 information about patients with multiple 5 sclerosis potential for panic attack. I don't 6 know if I did or not but that may have been what 7 I might have done. 8 Q. Did you call the DEU in 9 Indianapolis and report this panic attack with 10 Prozac as an adverse experience? 11 A. I don't recall that this was a 12 specific patient that he was telling me, I recall 13 that he was in general speaking about patients 14 that might have panic attacks with Prozac, so I 15 don't recall this to be an actual patient that he 16 had that experienced this. 17 Q. So it's your recollection that 18 you did not call the DEU and report it as an 19 adverse experience, correct? 20 A. I don't recall it to be a 21 report of an adverse drug experience. 22 Q. If a physician told you that he 23 heard that another physician's patient had some 24 sort of adverse reaction to Prozac, would it be Page 181 1 that you wouldn't report that as an adverse 2 experience because it wasn't the actual 3 psychiatrist to whom you were detailing's patient 4 or would you normally have to report something 5 like that? 6 A. If I was given specific 7 information about a patient that Doctor Coleman 8 had heard of from someone from someone from 9 someone, I would probably go to the physician, 10 the other physician who it would be and I would 11 say do you have any information that you would 12 like for me to report, if I could find out the 13 information. But again, unless I knew the 14 specifics of it, I couldn't say, as I said before 15 if a physician directly reports to me that they 16 in fact had a patient who had an adverse drug 17 reaction, then I would report that. If they said 18 to me that they'd heard of somebody who was doing 19 that, then I would want to go and find out the 20 information. I wouldn't necessarily call and say 21 I heard from this physician who heard from this 22 physician that there was a possible drug -- 23 adverse drug event from this patient. 24 Q. Do you recall asking Doctor Page 182 1 Coleman about a panic attack and the patient who 2 had multiple sclerosis while on Prozac? 3 A. Say that again. 4 Q. Do you recall trying to elicit 5 information from Doctor Lee Coleman about this 6 patient that's been identified as having a panic 7 attack with Prozac? 8 A. What I recall about the 9 situation is that he was discussing in general 10 patients who possibly could have panic attacks 11 with Prozac. I don't recall him stating a 12 specific patient or saying that he had a patient 13 who had a panic attack with Prozac, I do not 14 recall that. 15 Q. So if Doctor Coleman or any 16 doctor said, my partner, or gave you the name of 17 another doctor had a patient who had a panic 18 attack on Prozac, based on your testimony, is it 19 true that you would go to that other doctor even 20 if you wouldn't normally detail to that doctor 21 and try to elicit information about that? 22 A. If it was a doctor that was in 23 Louisville that I had responsibility for, 24 certainly if it was a physician that he was Page 183 1 talking about from Atlanta that maybe was coming 2 to visit him, obviously that would be impossible, 3 but I would do the best that I could to find out 4 that information and in turn call Indianapolis 5 about that information. 6 Q. If the person or the doctor 7 with the fictional patient that had this panic 8 attack while on Prozac was in Atlanta, would you 9 take some steps to have a detailer who had 10 Atlanta as a territory go to that particular 11 physician to find out what, if anything, was true 12 about this alleged adverse reaction? 13 A. If I had enough specific 14 information, I would do the best I could. 15 Q. Let's go to the second page of 16 Exhibit 1 and is that first entry April 10, 1990? 17 A. As best I can remember. 18 Q. Could you read that? 19 A. Prozac is his third choice, 20 Sinequan is first and Norpramin is second, work 21 on him, very busy, try next time. 22 Q. Do you recall whether you asked 23 him to rate the drugs as which is first, second, 24 or third choice or whether he volunteered that Page 184 1 information? 2 A. I don't recall asking him that 3 question. 4 Q. What did you mean by work on 5 him? 6 A. What I meant is continue to try 7 to call on him and detail him on using Prozac in 8 his patients, in different patients. 9 Q. And I take it you weren't able 10 to spend a lot of time with him based on your 11 last note which says very busy, try next time? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. In a situation like the one 14 that's reflected on the April 10, 1990, entry 15 where a doctor tells you that Prozac is maybe 16 their last choice and other drugs are their first 17 choice, what do you normally do and what did you 18 normally do in April of 1990 to try to, quote, 19 work on him, period unquote? 20 A. Well I would go the next time 21 that I visited with him and I would discuss 22 Prozac in comparison to Sinequan, for example, 23 which is a tricyclic, using our promotional 24 pieces. Page 185 1 Q. Would you have those 2 promotional pieces with you or would you have to 3 ask the marketing department or any department at 4 Lilly to send you information that compared the 5 two other drugs to Prozac so that when you went 6 to see Doctor Coleman you could give him the 7 information concerning the comparisons? 8 A. We had information about 9 comparing Prozac to tricyclics. I don't recall 10 the study, I don't recall the exact promotional 11 brochure, but this was information that we had in 12 our promotional pieces. 13 Q. Would you reflect on your notes 14 whether or not you would give Doctor Coleman 15 promotional pieces or anything like that usually? 16 A. I usually did not. 17 Q. Okay. Do you recall going back 18 to the March 1, 1990 entry, what, if anything, 19 you may have given Doctor Coleman on that day? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. Would anything refresh your 22 recollection in that regard? 23 A. Not that I can think of. 24 Q. What about on April 10, 1990, Page 186 1 do you recall what, if anything, you gave to 2 Doctor Coleman? 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. Would anything refresh your 5 recollection in that regard? 6 A. Not that I can think of. 7 Q. Let's go to the May 17, 1990, 8 entry, could you read that, please? 9 A. Had three patients develop 10 itching with Prozac, also mentioned, and then 11 parentheses not a rash, also mentioned that NBC 12 News contacted him for an interview, he declined. 13 Q. Do you recall whether or not he 14 volunteered the fact that he had three patients 15 that developed itching with Prozac? 16 A. It appears from this that is 17 what he did, yes. 18 Q. Did you report that as an 19 adverse experience to the DEU in Indianapolis? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you have any specific 22 recollection as to whom you talked to? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Have you ever -- do you know Page 187 1 anyone who worked at the drug epidemiology unit 2 that you may have spoken to during your entire 3 time working for Lilly? 4 A. I do not recall a name. 5 Q. Do you recall whether the 6 doctor told you anything more about the NBC News 7 contact other than what is reflected on this 8 note? 9 A. I don't recall anything and as 10 I mentioned before, it was not something that I 11 addressed within the media but apparently he 12 mentioned something to me about it so I put it in 13 my notes. 14 Q. Do you have any personal 15 knowledge as to the subject matter that NBC News 16 was wanting to interview Doctor Coleman about? 17 A. I do not recall. 18 Q. Was anyone present during your 19 conversation with him on May 17, 1990, April 10, 20 1990, March 1, 1990, and/or January 11, 1990? 21 A. Not that I recall. 22 Q. Where did your meetings usually 23 take place? 24 A. At Doctor Coleman's office. Page 188 1 Q. So he has an office, a desk and 2 so forth, within the area where he -- is it all 3 one place where he examines? 4 A. His office is in an office 5 building and he has his office within an office. 6 Q. I may have asked you this, do 7 you have any recollection as to what, if 8 anything, you gave Doctor Coleman on May 17, 9 1990? 10 A. I don't have any recollection. 11 Q. Would anything refresh your 12 recollection? 13 A. Not that I can think of. 14 Q. Just from looking at the notes 15 that we've gone through today, it doesn't reflect 16 that you gave any samples. I understand that you 17 kept a separate record for the amount of samples 18 that you normally gave the doctors, but if you 19 didn't reflect it on these notes, you still may 20 have given samples to Doctor Coleman, is that 21 true? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Did you do anything else with 24 respect to Doctor Coleman? In other words, did Page 189 1 you take him for lunch or bring him lunch or do 2 anything else besides give him promotional 3 material, send medical letters to him, stuff like 4 that, that you can recall? 5 A. Not that I can recall. 6 Q. Okay. If you could read the 7 next entry which is May 21, 1990. 8 A. Told him program aired last 9 Sunday, said he starts fifty percent of his new 10 patients on Prozac, started a patient today who 11 initially said they wouldn't take Prozac, and in 12 parentheses, I said because of the Wesbecker, 13 then couldn't take Pamelor so he switched him to 14 Prozac, and he's doing fine. 15 Q. Okay. What program were you 16 referring to on the May 21 entry? 17 A. I think, and I don't recall 18 this for certain, but there was a 60 Minutes 19 program that had aired. I think he asked me if 20 there was a program aired about Prozac on 60 21 Minutes and I said yes. 22 Q. To your knowledge, did Eli 23 Lilly have any connection with that 60 Minute 24 program, in other words was somebody from Lilly Page 190 1 interviewed on that program or did Eli Lilly take 2 steps to produce that program, do you have any 3 knowledge in that regard? 4 A. I don't have any knowledge of 5 that. 6 Q. Later in the entry, you note 7 that he started a patient who initially said they 8 wouldn't take Prozac, and I'm inferring from your 9 note that was because of the Wesbecker case. 10 What, if anything, was said that day about the 11 Wesbecker case? 12 A. I don't recall anything. 13 Q. Was anyone present when you had 14 this conversation about this patient that didn't 15 want to take Prozac because of the Wesbecker 16 case? 17 A. Not that I recall. 18 Q. Other than what's reflected on 19 the notes from May 21, 1990, is there anything 20 else that you can recall about the visit that 21 day? 22 A. Not that I can recall. 23 Q. Could you read the July 11, 24 1990, entry, please. Page 191 1 A. Started several new patients on 2 Prozac, Prozac is really good for the working 3 patient, stressed ESSDA. 4 Q. What does that stand for? 5 A. That is a shorthand for 6 efficacy, side effects, safety, and dosing 7 administration. 8 Q. And these are topics that you 9 stressed that day? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Do you recall what, if 12 anything, you said that day concerning those 13 topics? 14 A. From what I can recollect here, 15 I stressed that the Prozac is an efficacious 16 drug, that's safe, has minimal side effects and 17 is dosed once a day. 18 Q. In all of your visits with 19 Doctor Coleman, whether they're reflected in the 20 documents in Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 3 or not, do 21 you recall ever talking about the alleged side 22 effects of suicidal ideation and violent 23 aggressive behavior as a side effect of Prozac 24 with Doctor Coleman? Page 192 1 A. I was looking at something when 2 you first started that question, would you ask 3 that again? 4 MS. MORTIMER: Would you read that 5 back? 6 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 7 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 8 A. I may have. 9 Q. Do you have any specific 10 recollection of how that subject came out? 11 A. I don't recall specifically but 12 at the time when there was some alleged reports, 13 it may have been an issue that may have been 14 asked or I may have given him a reprint or a 15 study that discussed the incidence of suicide 16 with depression. 17 Q. Do you recall when this 18 conversation was? 19 A. Not specifically. 20 Q. Do you remember how many times -- 21 on how many different occasions you may have had 22 these discussions? 23 A. With? 24 Q. Doctor Coleman about suicidal Page 193 1 ideation and violent aggressive behavior as it 2 supposedly relates to Prozac or Fluoxetine. 3 A. I never said anything about 4 violent behavior with Prozac. I was talking 5 about suicidal ideation and from my recollection, 6 he may have asked me, I don't recall how many 7 times that topic was brought up. 8 Q. But in response to his 9 questions, you would have given him promotional 10 materials, is that true? 11 A. I would have given him 12 promotional materials that I had received from 13 Indianapolis. 14 Q. What would the promotional 15 materials have said? 16 A. I don't recall specifically but 17 it may have talked about the incidence of suicide 18 in depression, for example. 19 Q. So the promotional materials 20 that you would have given Doctor Coleman in 21 response to his questions about suicidal ideation 22 would have demonstrated that Prozac did not have 23 the side effects of suicidal ideation based on 24 Lilly studies? Page 194 1 MR. MYERS: I object to the form, 2 that's not what she said. 3 MS. MORTIMER: That's why I'm asking 4 her. 5 A. Can you repeat the question? 6 Q. Sure. In response to Doctor 7 Coleman's questions on the relationship between 8 Prozac and suicidal ideations or the side effect 9 of suicidal ideation to Prozac, you would have 10 given Doctor Coleman promotional materials 11 generated by Lilly that would have stated that 12 there was no causal connection between Prozac and 13 suicidal ideation according to Lilly, correct? 14 A. According to the information I 15 was given from Lilly, however, I don't recall 16 specifically that Doctor Coleman asked me that 17 question. 18 Q. I understand, but you did say 19 that in response you had a discussion. 20 A. Had he asked me that question. 21 Q. But you did say that you had a 22 discussion with him about it and that you gave 23 him promotional materials. Is that something you 24 may have done now? Page 195 1 A. That's what I said, I said I 2 may have discussed suicidal ideation with Doctor 3 Coleman. 4 MR. MYERS: There's a note about it at 5 the bottom of the page. 6 MS. MORTIMER: Well, I haven't gotten 7 to the bottom of the page. 8 MR. MYERS: I know, but you asked her 9 when and there's the context. 10 MS. MORTIMER: I can refresh her 11 recollection a little bit. 12 MR. MYERS: I guess, you might as well 13 refresh it with the note that refers to it. 14 MS. MORTIMER: I know you want to get 15 out of here, Larry. 16 MR. MYERS: It's not a matter of 17 getting out, it just gives her something to refer 18 to. It's the truth, that's what it says. 19 Q. Why did he say that Prozac was 20 really good for the working patient? 21 A. From what I can recall from 22 that, Prozac was found to be a good choice there 23 because the working patient needs to stay alert 24 and Prozac is a good choice for that patient Page 196 1 because had he selected to use the tricyclic, the 2 patient may have side effects such as blurred 3 vision, sedation, and constipation which would be 4 difficult side effects if you were a working 5 patient. 6 Q. Okay. Let's go to the August 7 8th entry, if you could read that, please. 8 A. Prozac must be damn good or I 9 wouldn't use it after all the problems, I told 10 him I would do anything to help. What I mean 11 there is that with our information from Lilly, 12 stressed the new reprints. 13 Q. What are the new reprints? 14 A. I don't recall specifically, 15 but from this note, we obviously -- looks like we 16 received some reprints from Indianapolis although 17 I don't recall the specific topics. 18 Q. When you say we, you mean the 19 Dista representatives? 20 A. I don't recall what I said we 21 to but -- 22 Q. You said we probably received 23 them from Indianapolis and so I'm -- 24 A. Dista representatives. Page 197 1 Q. And would you infer from your 2 note here that you gave Doctor Coleman these 3 reprints? 4 A. I don't say here that I gave 5 him the new reprints. 6 Q. I understand that. I'm just 7 asking do you infer from your note where you say 8 you stressed the new reprints that you may have 9 given Doctor Coleman a copy? 10 A. I may have but I do not recall 11 giving him the reprints. 12 Q. Do you recall whether or not 13 you gave Doctor Coleman any documentation or any 14 materials on July 11th or August 8th, 1990? 15 A. I may have, I don't recall. 16 Q. Would anything refresh your 17 recollection in that regard? 18 A. Not that I'm aware of. 19 Q. And the next one is September 20 6, 1990, if you can read that, please. 21 A. Gave him FAVA reprint, 22 discussed suicidal ideation issues, he was very 23 positive about Prozac, he started several new 24 patients on Prozac. Page 198 1 Q. What is that, FAVA reprints? 2 A. That is a reprint that 3 discusses the relationship of Prozac to suicidal 4 ideation. 5 Q. Is reprint like an article? 6 A. It's a medical article, usually 7 out of a journal such as the New England Journal 8 of Medicine, for example. 9 Q. I'm sorry, that reprint 10 discussed what again? 11 A. Suicidal ideation issues. Or 12 that reprint actually was discussing the 13 relationship between suicidal ideation and 14 Prozac. 15 Q. Did you read that article, the 16 FAVA reprint? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Do you remember what the FAVA 19 reprints concluded with respect to the 20 relationship between suicidal ideation and the 21 taking of Prozac or Fluoxetine? 22 A. From what I can recollect, it 23 concluded -- or the general idea was that Prozac 24 did not cause suicidal ideations. I don't know Page 199 1 the exact specifics, but that was the -- 2 Q. Then you discussed suicidal 3 ideation issues with Doctor Coleman yourself, 4 correct? 5 A. What I am meaning here is that 6 in discussing this FAVA reprint, that is what we 7 discussed, these issues. As I presented this 8 FAVA reprint to Doctor Coleman, we discussed 9 suicidal ideation issues. 10 Q. Have I exhausted your thoughts 11 about your extent of conversations with Doctor 12 Coleman that you had -- 13 A. All I can recall is what I'm 14 looking at here is I gave him that reprint and 15 discussed that that reprint said that Prozac and 16 suicidal ideation, there was not a link. That's 17 all I recall discussing with him. 18 Q. Did you give him any other 19 discussion materials that were given to you or 20 approved by Lilly that sent the same message that 21 Prozac did not cause suicidal ideation? 22 A. Not that I recall. 23 Q. The September 6, 1990 entry is 24 the last entry that is in your handwriting as Page 200 1 reflected on the documents that I received. Have 2 you seen Doctor Coleman since September 6, 1990? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Have you kept a physician 5 profile on him with respect to visits since that 6 date? 7 A. As best as I can recall. 8 Q. Where do you keep that profile? 9 A. Let me explain the profile 10 system. I received a profile book when I first 11 started the territory, I keep my notes on the 12 physician visits. As I have finish with certain 13 pages, as I get updated forms, I'll discard the 14 old and put the new forms in there. This form, I 15 don't recall the specific dates, but at the time 16 when I spoke with Ed Stopher, I gave him the 17 current information that I had about Doctor 18 Coleman and up until yesterday, when I -- and I 19 again gave the current information that I had, 20 this was the remaining current information that I 21 had on Doctor Coleman. 22 Q. So there's more information and 23 more documents that would reflect your notes on 24 the visits that you gave to Mister Stopher, is Page 201 1 that true? 2 A. What I gave to Mister Stopher 3 initially when I met with him, which according to 4 these numbers, which I don't exactly know the 5 date, I gave him at that point those notes which 6 at that point were the most current that I had on 7 Doctor Coleman. 8 Q. You're referring to the notes 9 in Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 3, correct? 10 A. Correct. Exhibit 1 is all -- 11 yes, correct, Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 3, and then 12 these are the remaining two pages of Exhibit 1 13 are the current information that I have 14 presently. I may have seen Doctor Coleman and 15 made previous notes about Doctor Coleman between 16 these two timeframes, however I only keep the 17 current information that I have about Doctor 18 Coleman. As I do with all the materials that I 19 have with Lilly, as I get new sheets, I update 20 them and from the old I'll update them as to what 21 I want to take from the old and put on the new. 22 Q. So I'm clear, when you met with 23 Mister Stopher, the documents that have been 24 marked and included with Exhibits 1 and 3 were Page 202 1 the only documents that you had, correct? 2 A. At that point in time, correct. 3 Q. After that, you may have filled 4 out other physician profiles concerning your day 5 to day visits with Doctor Coleman, true? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. But as the form changed and as 8 the time went on, you discarded the out of date 9 forms and the forms that I have been handed today 10 that look to be filled out by Ms. Waddell are the 11 only documents that you have currently that 12 represent visits with Doctor Coleman, is that 13 true? 14 A. The last two pages are mine, 15 this is my handwriting, these last two pages are 16 also my handwriting. 17 Q. Oh, I see. 18 A. This is the last remaining 19 current information that I have about Doctor 20 Coleman. The last page of Exhibit 3 is Lisa 21 Waddell's entries that she had since she started 22 to call on Doctor Coleman. 23 Q. I see. So from September 6, 24 1990 to July 2nd of 1993? Page 203 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. You may have made notes, but 3 those notes have been destroyed? 4 A. I have discarded as I have 5 gotten new ones, correct. 6 Q. And those notes were not 7 tendered to Mister Stopher or Mister Larry -- 8 A. Correct. 9 MR. MYERS: Myers. You said '93, but I 10 can't recall, are these '92, because they go from 11 July to April? 12 THE WITNESS: Right. So this is July 13 of '92. 14 MS. MORTIMER: Okay. Thank you, Larry. 15 Q. So before when I was referring 16 to July 28th of '93, for the record, is, 17 according to the witness, it was July 28th, '92? 18 A. Correct. Correct, through the 19 3rd of March. 20 Q. So I am clear, you didn't send 21 a copy of this to the legal department, copies of 22 the missing notes to the legal department or any 23 entity? 24 A. No, I did not. Page 204 1 Q. So the next -- all right. From 2 September 6, 1990 to November 2, 1990, do you 3 recall ever having any discussions with Doctor 4 Coleman about Prozac and its alleged side effects 5 of suicidal ideation and/or violent aggressive 6 behavior? 7 A. I do not recall discussing 8 those. 9 Q. Just to make sure, I think I 10 may have said this inaccurately, from September 11 6, 1990, to the next recorded entry we have of 12 July 28, 1992, it's your testimony that you don't 13 recall having any discussions with Doctor Lee 14 Coleman concerning Prozac and its alleged side 15 effect of suicidal ideation and/or violent 16 aggressive behavior? 17 A. I do not recall that. It may 18 have come up, I just don't recall the 19 discussions. 20 Q. If it did come up, you would 21 have responded in the same way that you alluded 22 to before by giving promotional materials that 23 were approved by Lilly which would represent to 24 the doctor that there are no side effects of Page 205 1 suicidal ideation and/or violent aggressive 2 behavior to Prozac ingestion, correct? 3 A. What I said was that if that 4 issue was brought up to me and I was discussing 5 it with the physician, I would use the 6 promotional materials that I was given from 7 Indianapolis based on suicidality and the alleged 8 idea that Prozac causes those types of behavior. 9 Q. And the promotional material 10 that you did give though tended to disagree with 11 the hypothesis that suicidal ideation and violent 12 aggressive behavior are side effects of Prozac 13 and/or Fluoxetine, correct? 14 MR. MYERS: Let me object to the form 15 only to the extent your question assumes that 16 there is some material or literature to the 17 contrary, you're assuming there is some going the 18 other way. 19 MS. MORTIMER: It's my position, as you 20 know, Larry, that there is literature to the 21 contrary. 22 Q. So that basically what my 23 statement is is true, correct? 24 MR. MYERS: I object to the form. Go Page 206 1 ahead and answer. 2 A. Can you repeat the question 3 again? 4 Q. The promotional -- can you read 5 the question back? 6 (THE COURT REPORTER READ BACK THE 7 REQUESTED TESTIMONY.) 8 A. I'm really not understanding 9 your question at all. 10 Q. If during the timeframe of 11 September 6, 1990, to July 28, 1992, Doctor 12 Coleman and you had a discussion about the 13 alleged side effects of suicidal ideation and 14 violent aggressive behavior of Prozac, you would 15 have given him, as you testified, promotional 16 materials and materials that were approved by Eli 17 Lilly? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. The materials that you would 20 have given to the doctor in response or during 21 that discussion would have tended to disagree 22 with the hypothesis that suicidal ideation and/or 23 violent aggressive behavior are side effects of 24 the ingestion of Fluoxetine or Prozac? Page 207 1 MR. MYERS: Same objection as I said 2 before. Go ahead and answer if you can. 3 A. I'm going to answer it giving 4 you an explanation. If that would happen to me 5 and he were to ask me that question in that 6 timeframe, I would discuss with him the 7 information which Lilly had given me that would 8 describe that those types of relationships I've 9 not seen according to this data with Prozac. The 10 data shows that these types of actions have not 11 been seen, meaning suicidality with Prozac. 12 Q. Okay. So my statement is true 13 that it would disagree with that hypothesis? 14 A. The information that I have 15 based on Fluoxetine, with regards to suicidality 16 and alleged side effects do not agree with the 17 studies that have been done on Fluoxetine that I 18 am -- that I would be showing to Doctor Coleman. 19 Q. And the studies that you would 20 be showing to Doctor Coleman would have been 21 studies that you didn't conduct or participate in 22 but were studies and results of studies given to 23 you by Lilly? 24 A. They were given to me by Lilly, Page 208 1 correct. 2 Q. Okay. The next entry that we 3 have written memorialization of is July 28, 1992, 4 correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Could you read that for me? 7 A. Quick hello, left tapes of Road 8 To Recovery, stressed ESSDA. 9 Q. What is Road To Recovery? 10 A. That's a videotape that talks 11 about depression and its intent is a service item 12 to patients who have questions about depression 13 that the physician, if he would like to, could 14 give to the patient. 15 Q. Who produced that video, if you 16 know? 17 A. I was given that video from 18 Indianapolis. 19 Q. So you have no knowledge as to 20 who produced it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you have knowledge as to 23 whether or not Lilly funded the production of 24 that video? Page 209 1 A. I do not know. 2 Q. And again you stressed 3 E-S-S-D-A which is efficacy, safety, side 4 effects, dosage and what's the last one? 5 A. Dosage administration. 6 Q. And you discussed generally 7 what you would say when you stressed ESSDA 8 previously, is there anything that you said 9 differently on July 28, 1992? 10 A. Not that I can recall. 11 Q. What about the next entry, 12 August 20, 1992? 13 A. Discussed using Prozac in an 14 elderly patient with sleeping problems versus 15 tricyclics. 16 Q. Do you have any specific 17 recollection of anything else that was discussed 18 during that visit? 19 A. Not that I can recall. 20 Q. Do you recall what, if 21 anything, you gave to Doctor Lee Coleman on July 22 28, 1992 other than the video, quote, Road To 23 Recovery, end quote? 24 A. Not that I can remember. Page 210 1 Q. What does the two mean in 2 parenthesis next to that? 3 A. That I left two videos. 4 Q. Do you recall what, if 5 anything, you gave to Doctor Coleman on August 6 20, 1992? 7 A. I can't remember. 8 Q. Okay. The next entry is 9 September 21, 1992. 10 A. Discussed using Prozac in 11 patient with recurrent depression, said he would 12 if that -- said he would use Prozac if they had 13 side effects from tricyclics. 14 Q. Did you ask the doctor what his 15 first as opposed to his second and third choice 16 of drugs were? 17 A. Not that I recall. 18 Q. Do you infer from this note 19 that the doctor wanted to use the tricyclics 20 first and then Prozac if they had side effects 21 from the tricyclics? 22 A. What I'm inferring from this is 23 that in discussing recurrent depression, which is 24 when a patient who has previously had a Page 211 1 depressive episode has an additional episode, if 2 this patient when they were first treated with a 3 tricyclic had side effects, my question appears 4 to be would he use Prozac in this patient based 5 on the fact that previously they had had side 6 effects from a tricyclic. 7 Q. Do you recall anything else 8 from that visit? 9 A. That's all I can recall. 10 Q. The next entry is is January 11 31, 1993, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Could you read it, please? 14 A. Discussed dose and side effect 15 profile of Prozac versus Zoloft, also half life. 16 Q. So I take it that you discussed 17 the half life of Prozac versus the other drug, as 18 well? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. Do you recall what you 21 specifically discussed with respect to the side 22 effect profile of Prozac versus the other drug, 23 or did you give a promotional piece that would 24 outline that for the doctor, if you recall? Page 212 1 A. I don't recall specifically, I 2 just can recall what I said here, discussed the 3 dose and side effect profile and again, as I have 4 said before in the promotional pieces that I've 5 used are going to be promotional pieces that I've 6 gotten from Indianapolis. 7 Q. Could you read the next entry, 8 please, including the date? 9 A. I believe it says 2-29. Using 10 Prozac over Zoloft because of unreliable dose of 11 Zoloft and GI side effects. 12 Q. Explain that entry, please. 13 A. Means that he's using Prozac 14 rather than Zoloft because the dose of Zoloft 15 doesn't seem to be reliable, meaning that one 16 patient doesn't necessarily have the same dose as 17 another one as a therapeutic dose and that he has 18 seen gastrointestinal side effects with Zoloft. 19 Q. Do you recall anything else 20 with respect to that visit? 21 A. That's all I can recall. 22 Q. Do you recall giving the doctor 23 any materials at that visit? 24 A. Not that I can recall. Page 213 1 Q. The next and last record of a 2 recorded visit, we have specifically is March 10, 3 1993, could you please read that? 4 A. Was very busy, quick message, 5 Prozac is the gold standard. 6 Q. What does that mean? 7 A. From what I can recall, he 8 discussed or we discussed, I don't know, that 9 Prozac is the gold standard, meaning it's the 10 standard because it's the first serotonin 11 reuptake inhibitor to be on the market. 12 Q. Whose words are gold standard, 13 do you know? 14 A. I don't recall. 15 Q. So that's not something that is 16 a Lilly term? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. The next item says 4/30 and 19 then there are no words next to it. Do you 20 recall whether or not you went to see Doctor 21 Coleman on that day? 22 A. I don't recall that I did, I 23 may have written that and may have gone and he 24 may not have been there, there was no one at the Page 214 1 office or something, I don't recall. 2 Q. Again, you don't have every 3 single visit noted, this is just profiles, and it 4 may have been that you saw Doctor Coleman on 5 other occasions other than are reflected on 6 Exhibits l and 3, but you just didn't write it 7 down, correct? 8 A. I may have. 9 Q. After March 10 of 1993, to the 10 present, have you seen Doctor Coleman? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. During that timeframe, have you 13 spoken with Doctor Coleman about the alleged side 14 effects of suicidal ideation and/or violent 15 aggressive behavior to Prozac ingestion? 16 A. Not that I can recall. 17 Q. Other than the discussions you 18 have described, do you have any specific 19 recollection of speaking with Doctor Coleman 20 about the Wesbecker case? 21 A. Not that I can recall. 22 Q. Do you keep -- this is the last 23 or the most current physician profile you have on 24 the doctor, correct? Page 215 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. And you brought that in with 3 you today, correct? 4 A. Yesterday. 5 Q. So from that, can I infer that 6 the last time you saw Doctor Coleman may have 7 been April 30 of '93, but was for sure March 10 8 of '93? 9 A. I may have seen him since those 10 dates that are recorded on that. 11 Q. But you just didn't write them 12 down? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Before you mentioned that other 15 than the training program that you had in the 16 beginning, October of '89, you also had other 17 training programs or meetings with respect to new 18 issues, is that true? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. How many other training 21 sessions have you had other than the initial 22 training session from the time that you started 23 until present? 24 A. I cannot give you an absolute Page 216 1 number, there's been several. I couldn't even 2 count them all, we have lots of different 3 meetings. 4 Q. Could you categorize the 5 meetings for me? 6 A. We have district meetings 7 quarterly, which we meet in the district and we 8 go over the current promotional materials, the 9 current strategies, et cetera, that are going on 10 at that point in time. Other categories would be 11 there are training program that go on 12 independently of your district which are 13 approximately every six months following your 14 initial training. I take that back, six months 15 and then eighteen months and then I believe -- I 16 don't know how many months, six months after that 17 and then periodically from those sales trainings, 18 there will be experienced sales training schools. 19 Q. What are those? 20 A. Those are just additional 21 training for representatives who have been with 22 the company, I believe, over four or five years. 23 I don't know exactly when the dates are that you 24 go to those. Page 217 1 Q. Did you ever go to one of 2 those? 3 A. I haven't been to a, quote, 4 experienced sales school. I believe you go and I 5 don't know this for certain exact dates but I 6 think you go at the five year mark. 7 Q. Where are those experienced 8 training schools? 9 A. In Indianapolis. 10 Q. At the same sales training 11 department? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. At any of the disstrict 14 meetings that you have quarterly, have one of the 15 topics been Prozac? 16 A. At every district meeting we've 17 had we have had some discussion of Prozac because 18 its been a product that I've promoted since I 19 started with the company. 20 Q. Has the alleged side effect of 21 suicidal ideation and violent aggressive behavior 22 and homicidal, the alleged side effect of 23 homicidal ideation been discussed at any of your 24 district meetings? Page 218 1 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, let me 2 object to the form. You are talking about three 3 different things, I think, as one side effect. 4 MS MORTIMER: No, I'm not. 5 MR. MYERS: I object to the form. You 6 have identified three different side effects as 7 one side effect, alleged. Go ahead if you can 8 answer it. 9 MS. MORTIMER: We already got the 10 answer, right? 11 COURT REPORTER: No, I didn't get an 12 answer. 13 A. The question that you're asking 14 me is again -- say it -- what your question is, 15 please. 16 Q. At any of the district meetings 17 that you attended, has the alleged side effects, 18 plural, of homicidal ideation, suicidal ideation 19 or violent aggressive behavior been discussed? 20 A. I recall discussing the 21 materials that we had available from Indianapolis 22 to discuss topics of Prozac with regard to 23 suicidal ideation. 24 Q. Would these materials sometimes Page 219 1 be produced by outside sources? 2 A. I don't recall who the sources 3 were. Some of these source were reprints that 4 may have been from journals, I really don't know. 5 Q. Do you recall if any of the 6 documents you received at these district meetings 7 when you discussed that topic with respect to 8 Prozac, whether any of those materials supported 9 the hypothesis that suicidal ideation, 10 violent-aggressive behavior and homicidal 11 ideation were side effects of Prozac? 12 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, I 13 object to the form. She said the only thing they 14 talked about was suicidal ideation. 15 MS. MORTIMER: You can answer the 16 question. 17 MR. MYERS: If you can answer the 18 question. 19 MS. MORTIMER: You have totally 20 misinterpreted my question. Listen to the 21 question. Whether any of the documents she 22 received, not what she discussed but what she 23 received, supported the hypothesis that homicidal 24 ideation, suicidal ideation, or violent Page 220 1 aggressive behavior were side effects of Prozac 2 and/or Fluoxetine. 3 A. Did I ever receive any 4 documents saying that those things were caused by 5 Prozac? No, I did not. 6 Q. Have you ever in your 7 employment with Lilly received such an article or 8 document? 9 A. No. 10 MR. MYERS: If you have some, we would 11 like to see them. 12 Q. Have you ever received a copy 13 of the Teicher Teicher article? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did you ever distribute the 16 Teicher article to physicians or psychiatrists? 17 A. I do not recall that. 18 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 19 whether the Teicher article was approved by Lilly 20 to be distributed to physicians and/or 21 psychiatrists in your detailing responsibilities? 22 A. I don't recall specifically 23 myself giving it, I don't remember if it was 24 approved or not. Page 221 1 Q. Do you know when the Teicher 2 article came out? 3 A. I do not know. 4 Q. Did you participate in any of 5 the independent training programs? 6 A. Independent training programs 7 were the ones that I was talking about at the six 8 month period, those are required. 9 Q. Okay. And you discussed Prozac 10 at those as well? 11 A. Similarly to the other district 12 meetings. We discussed the promotional, the new 13 promotional things, just the general topics that 14 we discussed at the initial sales training with 15 regard to updating on policy matters, et cetera. 16 Q. And at these independent 17 training programs and at the district meetings, 18 you were updated on the new -- 19 A. The new package insert 20 labeling, the new promotional materials which 21 were updated. 22 Q. And at the independent training 23 programs was the subject of whether or not 24 suicidal ideation was a side effect of Prozac Page 222 1 discussed? 2 A. I do not recall that it was. 3 Q. And these district meetings and 4 the independent training programs were also in 5 Indianapolis at the sales division that you've 6 already alluded to? 7 A. Correct. Say that one more 8 time. The district meetings are not -- the 9 independent meetings or the independent training 10 programs are at the corporate office in the sales 11 training area. The district meetings are 12 typically at a hotel that all the district 13 members come to and then it's run in a meeting 14 room. 15 Q. Do you have any documents in 16 your possession that were generated and handed 17 out to you by Lilly at these different meetings 18 and training sessions? 19 A. The materials that I have from 20 Lilly are the updated materials from the current 21 Prozac literature. And as I said stated before, 22 as I received new documents, I replaced the new -- 23 replaced the old documents with new documents. 24 Q. So the answer is no, you don't Page 223 1 have anything from the district meetings unless 2 it was the last district meeting and that would 3 be the most updated information so you would have 4 that at home? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Do you recall approximately how 7 many meetings you had concerning -- how many 8 district meetings you had in your employment with 9 Lilly? 10 A. As I mentioned before, I said 11 that we have district meetings quarterly. I have 12 been with Lilly approximately four years, so 13 that's four times four is twelve. 14 MR. MYERS: Sixteen. 15 A. Sixteen, I'm thinking four 16 times three. 17 Q. Would your district manager 18 keep minutes of these district meetings? 19 A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. Would anyone keep minutes of 21 these district meetings? 22 A. Not that I recall. 23 Q. Would you be provided with a 24 brochure, an outline of the events of the Page 224 1 district meeting when you went to one? 2 A. If you go to a district meeting 3 there's usually an agenda. 4 Q. And the same for independent 5 training programs? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Who ran the independent 8 training program? 9 A. The independent training 10 programs were run by the sales training groups 11 that were in the sales training office. 12 Q. Can you give me the names of 13 anybody that works in the sales training office? 14 A. I cannot recall, I haven't been 15 to one of those for quite some time, I can't 16 recall specific names. 17 Q. Who would have that 18 information? 19 A. I really don't know. 20 Q. It's my understanding, and I 21 may be wrong, okay, so correct me if I'm wrong, 22 but it's my understanding that Lilly first 23 detailed Prozac to psychiatrists and then later 24 on detailed Prozac to physicians, do you have any Page 225 1 knowledge whether that's true one way or the 2 other? 3 A. When Prozac was introduced and 4 all this happened, I was not with the company. I 5 do recall hearing that when we initially started 6 promoting Prozac, we started promoting it to 7 psychiatrists and then promoted it to primary 8 care physicians. 9 Q. Does the way you detail Prozac 10 to psychiatrists differ from the way you detail 11 Prozac to other medical care providers? 12 A. Somewhat. 13 Q. What other medical care -- what 14 other type of medical care providers do you 15 detail Prozac? 16 A. As I mentioned, psychiatrists, 17 family practice, internal medicine. 18 Q. I can even go through them with 19 you. I know that you said you detailed Prozac, 20 Keftab, and Axid for awhile and then I asked you 21 who you detailed them to and you gave me a list 22 of medical providers, you listed general 23 psychiatrists, ENTs, pediatricians, internal 24 medicine and some rheumatologists. Did you Page 226 1 detail Prozac to all of those medical providers? 2 A. No. 3 Q. So specifically out of those, 4 who did you detail Prozac to? 5 A. Primary care physicians, which 6 would be internal medicine, family practice and 7 psychiatrists. 8 Q. And how did the way you 9 detailed Prozac differ from the way you did it 10 with respect to psychiatrists as opposed to 11 internal medicine or family practitioners? 12 A. Again, I don't recall specific 13 pieces but psychiatrists are a little more 14 educated in terms of psychiatry and the 15 mechanisms of action for depression and, et 16 cetera, than a primary care physician so it's on 17 a different level. 18 Q. And again when you detailed 19 Prozac or Fluoxetine to internal medicine doctors 20 or family practitioners, it was for the 21 indication of depression only? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And I may have asked you this 24 before, I'm sorry if I did, but I wanted to make Page 227 1 sure I ask you, do you recall reporting an 2 adverse event concerning the suicidal ideation or 3 aggressive behavior to the DEU concerning a 4 patient who took Prozac with respect to any of 5 the types of medical providers you detailed to? 6 A. I do not recall. 7 Q. So you have no recollection of 8 ever reporting an adverse event with respect to 9 suicidal ideation or violent aggressive behavior 10 on Prozac? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Has any other Dista 13 representative or any other sales representives, 14 whether Lilly representatives, Select Product 15 representatives, hospital representatives, has 16 anyone ever told you that they reported an 17 adverse event to the DEU with the event being 18 suicidal thoughts or violent aggressive behavior -- 19 A. Not that I recall. 20 Q. -- on Prozac. Do you have any 21 knowledge if Doctor Coleman reported an adverse 22 event to the DEU, to Lilly, or to the FDA 23 concerning his finding that a patient was 24 experiencing suicidal ideation or violent Page 228 1 aggressive behavior while he was taking Prozac? 2 A. Not that I'm aware of. 3 Q. As part of your job as a Dista 4 representative, do you sometimes go to seminars 5 and speak about Prozac or stand by a display and 6 discuss Prozac with people? 7 A. There are displays when there 8 are meetings, like an American Medical 9 Association meeting or a Kentucky Medical 10 Association meeting where we may have a display 11 booth and physicians may come up and ask you 12 questions about the color of the sky or the 13 product or whatever it may be. 14 Q. Has any -- have you attended 15 some of these meetings? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. You have? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And at these meetings, has any 20 physician, any person, ever reported to you that 21 they know of someone who had an adverse 22 experience with Prozac, specifically had suicidal 23 ideations or violent aggressive behavior while 24 taking Prozac? Page 229 1 A. Not that I recall. 2 Q. Other than Doctor Coleman, do 3 you have any knowledge of any other psychiatrists 4 that have been named in any lawsuit as a result 5 of their prescribing Prozac or Fluoxetine to a 6 patient? 7 A. Not that I'm aware of. 8 Q. Have you ever offered on behalf 9 of Lilly to indemnify Doctor Coleman for the cost 10 of his legal representation in the Wesbecker case 11 or any case related thereto? 12 A. Not that I recall. 13 Q. Do you have any knowledge that 14 Doctor Coleman is being indemnified -- and do you 15 understand what I mean by -- 16 A. Yes, I do. 17 Q. Being indemnified with respect 18 to this case and the legal costs that he may be 19 incurring with respect to this case? 20 A. Not that I'm aware of. 21 Q. Is there anything else that you 22 have done with Doctor Coleman or normally do in a 23 situation where you're asked a question and you 24 don't know the answer because it's not a question Page 230 1 that has to do with Prozac and the ideation of 2 depression? 3 MR. MYERS: Indication. 4 MS. MORTIMER: I'm sorry, indication of 5 depression. 6 MR. MYERS: Other than what she told 7 you. 8 Q. Other than calling or writing a 9 letter to the medical department and having them 10 send a letter, is there anything else that you do 11 if you don't know the answer to a question? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Have you ever told a physician 14 or psychiatrist not to use Fluoxetine or Prozac 15 for any reason? 16 A. Not that I can recall. 17 MS. MORTIMER: If you want to take a 18 break, I can look over my notes. 19 MR. MYERS: Sure, that will be fine. 20 (A SHORT RECESS WAS TAKEN.) 21 Q. (BY MS. MORTIMER) Have you 22 ever been called by Lilly to attend any special 23 meetings that only concern Prozac and the alleged 24 side effect of suicidal ideation and/or violent Page 231 1 aggressive behavior that have been alleged to 2 result from Prozac or Fluoxetine ingestion? 3 A. Okay, I want to make something 4 very clear about something before I answer this. 5 The meetings that I attended with Lilly with 6 regard to Prozac and alleged side effects where 7 we discussed materials from which we would 8 discuss with physicians related to the issue of 9 Prozac and suicidality, these other side effects 10 that are alleged are not ones that we have 11 discussed and had literature. So I wanted to 12 clarify that that is the only one. 13 Q. So that's the only one? 14 A. The only one. So moving on 15 with your question, you said were there any 16 meetings that specifically dealt with that. We 17 had, to the best of my recollection, one meeting 18 which was called a POP meeting where we had 19 discussions that primarily discussed Prozac and 20 the alleged side effect that Prozac caused 21 suicidality. 22 Q. Who conducted that meeting? 23 A. My district manager. 24 Q. And that is Curtis now? Page 232 1 A. At the time it was Paul 2 Frederick. 3 Q. And I take it you were given 4 materials at that meeting as well? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And you don't have those 7 materials now? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And you don't know where within 10 Lilly the materials may be kept, if at all? 11 A. Correct. 12 MS. MORTIMER: Off the record. 13 (OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION.) 14 Q. Why did Ross Kushner leave 15 Lilly, do you know? 16 A. I really don't know. 17 Q. At any of the times when you 18 spoke with Ross Kushner at K-Mart when you were 19 there as a representative, did you discuss the 20 Wesbecker case? 21 A. Not that I recall. 22 Q. Did you ever discuss at any of 23 those times with Ross the alleged side effect of 24 suicidality -- Page 233 1 A. Not that I recall. 2 Q. -- that comes from Prozac 3 ingestion? 4 A. Not that I recall. 5 Q. When did Lilly first start 6 using detailers to sell their products, if you 7 know? 8 A. I don't know. 9 MS. MORTIMER: Let's mark this as 10 Exhibit -- what are we on? 11 MR. MYERS: Six. 12 MS. MORTIMER: Hoffman Exhibit 6. 13 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 6 WAS 14 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 15 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 16 Q. Could you read that, please. 17 A. The second page of this? 18 MR. MYERS: Yes. 19 Q. Have you had an opportunity to 20 read Hoffman Exhibit 6? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Do you recognize this document? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Before today, have you ever Page 234 1 seen this document? 2 A. No. 3 Q. At the top of the document 4 there's a portion that appears to be blacked out, 5 do you have any idea what specifically is blacked 6 out there? 7 A. I do not know. 8 Q. Do you know who Ed West is? 9 A. I think he's with corporate 10 communications in Indianapolis, as far as I can 11 recall. 12 Q. Do you have any knowledge of 13 any other lawsuits other than the lawsuit in 14 which Doctor Coleman is a defendant that have 15 resulted or, you know, have resulted or had the 16 subject matter with respect to Prozac? 17 MR. MYERS: Wait a minute. 18 MS. MORTIMER: I know, it's not a clear 19 question. 20 Q. Do you know of any other 21 lawsuits other than the lawsuit for which you're 22 here today? 23 A. I don't know any other 24 specific, I mean in general I've heard in the Page 235 1 media and the paper that there are lawsuits, but 2 I don't know anything specific, this is the only 3 one that -- 4 Q. On the third line there's a 5 portion that's blacked out as well. Do you have 6 any idea what's blacked out there? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. The writer says that he 9 continually sees information both on television 10 and newspaper surrounding this issue. Do you 11 have any idea what the issue that the writer is 12 describing? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you have any idea as to 15 whether a Prozac support group was ever formed? 16 A. I really don't know. 17 Q. Hoffman Exhibit 6 is a two page 18 letter, is that correct? 19 A. It appears to be. I don't know 20 that this is -- I don't see where this goes to 21 the next page but I've never seen this before so -- 22 Q. It appears that your carbon 23 copied at least to the second page of Exhibit 6, 24 correct? Page 236 1 A. It says X-C, which I don't know 2 if that means carbon copied and I don't recall 3 ever seeing this. 4 Q. Do you have any idea why it 5 would have been produced for your deposition? 6 A. I have no idea. 7 Q. Okay. 8 MR. MYERS: We'll be to glad to take it 9 back if you like. 10 MS. MORTIMER: Mark this next item as 11 Hoffman Exhibit 7. 12 (PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT NO. 7 WAS 13 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 14 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 15 Q. If you can read that, please. 16 MR. MYERS: Read it to yourself first. 17 You didn't want her to read it out loud? 18 MS. MORTIMER: No, that's fine. 19 A. Okay. 20 Q. Do you recognize this document? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What is it? 23 A. It appears to be a medical 24 letter that I've sent in for information Page 237 1 regarding the use of Prozac and hair loss. 2 Q. So this would have been a 3 typical letter that you would write to medical 4 requesting that they send a medical letter to a 5 doctor? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And in the upper right quadrant 8 underneath Christine Hoffman, there's a blacked 9 out portion, do you have any idea what goes there 10 generally? 11 A. No, I don't know what that -- 12 Q. Underneath that, there's a 13 number, is that your territory number? 14 A. It looks like that's what it 15 is. 16 Q. So that would have been your 17 territory number as of August 12, '91 which is 18 the date that is reflected in the upper lefthand 19 quadrant, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. The part of this Exhibit that 22 is not circled, is that your handwriting? 23 MR. MYERS: She means everything other 24 than this, I think. Page 238 1 MS. MORTIMER: That's exactly what I 2 mean. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Is the circled information your 5 handwriting? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Do you have any idea who wrote 8 that? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Do you have any idea what the 11 numbers and the dates that are reflected within 12 that circle mean? 13 A. No. 14 Q. In the bottom left quadrant, 15 there's a portion that's blacked out, do you have 16 any idea what information is blacked out there? 17 A. No. 18 Q. In the bottom right quadrant, 19 there's a log number, what is that log number, if 20 you know? 21 A. I have no idea. 22 Q. Is this a form that you are 23 given to send? 24 A. This is just a general field Page 239 1 letter form which I could use just to write any 2 letter. 3 Q. Does this have many copies, in 4 other words is there like a yellow copy, a pink 5 copy underneath it? The only reason that I ask 6 is at the bottom it says replier's slash area 7 manager copy, retain for your files, and that 8 leads me to believe that there are perhaps other 9 copies of this that you may send elsewhere. I 10 was just wondering if that is the case and if so, 11 where do you send them? 12 A. This particular form has two 13 copies that I recall, and if I can recall, one is 14 sent to the district office and one can be sent -- 15 it just depends on what you're using the letter 16 for. I don't know, if I was writing it just to 17 the district manager, I might have a copy it it 18 and I may have sent out both copies. 19 Q. Is there a file that you keep 20 at your home that would have copies of this type 21 of letter? 22 A. I may have it. 23 Q. Again, do you only keep recent 24 copies or do you keep this type of document, you Page 240 1 know, from the time that you may have filled it 2 out when you first started, to the present? 3 A. I may have but I don't recall 4 that I do. 5 Q. I'll reserve my right to take 6 your deposition if in fact it is true that you 7 have documents before, more recent documents, and 8 I'm sure Mr. Myers will have an objection. 9 MR. MYERS: You can reserve all you 10 want. You'll have to take that up with a power 11 higher than you or me. 12 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 8 WAS 13 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 14 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 15 Q. You don't have to read 16 everything on these two pages. I mean if you 17 want to, go ahead. 18 MR. MYERS: It's short enough. 19 Q. Go ahead, that's fine. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. Have you ever seen that 22 document before? 23 A. Some of these things sound 24 familiar but I don't recall this exact document. Page 241 1 MS. MORTIMER: And for the record, 2 Exhibit 8 is a two page document that says sales 3 representative verbatim and it's underlined on 4 the first and second page. 5 Q. What is this document? 6 A. I don't know exactly what this 7 is. I don't know if it's something that's from 8 marketing that they put together, I don't know. 9 It could be something that was sent to the 10 district managers that we would discuss at a 11 meeting. 12 Q. Are these -- 13 A. I don't know. 14 Q. Are these examples of responses 15 that you, as a Dista representative, will give in 16 the face of questions by physicians or 17 psychiatrists about Prozac and certain topics 18 with respect to Prozac? 19 A. Is there any one in particular 20 that you're looking at? 21 Q. No. 22 A. As I recall, when we would -- 23 if I were to be given something like this in a 24 district meeting or in a Pop meeting or whatever Page 242 1 it may be, this may be something that we look at 2 and go over. This may be the company's position 3 based on the information that we had that 4 promoted the materials from Lilly, those are the 5 promotional pieces that were given of what we 6 discussed with the physician. 7 Q. At the very top, the very first 8 paragraph, it says, quote, an article in the 9 February issue of American Journal of Psychiatry 10 raised the possibility that Fluoxetine therapy 11 may induce underlying suicidal ideation, period. 12 I would like to discuss this further with you, 13 unquote. Is that article -- do you know of the 14 article that that refers to? 15 A. I'm not for certain but I think 16 it's the Teicher article. 17 Q. Okay. And then under that 18 first paragraph, there are a series of paragraphs 19 that go on to the second page of this exhibit. 20 So from what you're telling me, is it true that 21 these various paragraphs would be discussed at a 22 meeting? 23 A. Could be. 24 Q. And a document such as this Page 243 1 verbatim document or Exhibit 8 is something that 2 would typically be handed out at a meeting or by 3 a district manager and discussed as responses to 4 questions or what would be discussed at a meeting 5 with the psychiatrist or a physician with respect 6 to Prozac? 7 A. This would be something that 8 they may discuss with us and then with this we 9 would look at our promotional pieces which are 10 the information from Indianapolis from which we 11 would discuss these issues to physicians. 12 Q. When you were -- when you first 13 received a document such as Exhibit 8, did you 14 have an opportunity to question, or have you ever 15 questioned the entity from which or the person 16 from whom you got this material about the 17 statements that are made on it? For instance, 18 the third paragraph. 19 A. Let's see. 20 Q. On the fifth paragraph of the 21 first page of Exhibit 8, it says, quote, an 22 analysis of suicidal acts occurring during U.S. 23 Fluoxetine controlled depression trials did not 24 reveal a statistically significant difference Page 244 1 between Prozac and either placebo or tricyclic 2 anti-depressants, period, close quote. Did you 3 ever ask anyone at Eli Lilly when faced with a 4 statement such as this to give you the trial 5 results or to explain to you what significant 6 difference was and so forth, or did you just 7 basically take these verbatim statements and look 8 at the promotional materials that you received 9 and give the information to the physicians? 10 MR. MYERS: Before she answers, let me 11 object to the form of the question for this 12 reason, she testified initially that she didn't 13 recall ever having seen this document, she had 14 seen some of the statements in this document. I 15 can't tell from the question that you are asking 16 her whether your question is have you ever 17 questioned a verbatim statement that you've been 18 given, or is the question have you ever 19 questioned any of the specific statements in this 20 verbatim which she's never seen before. I mean -- 21 MS. MORTIMER: Well, I thought I was 22 clear but obviously I wasn't. 23 Q. If-- do you recall ever seeing 24 any of the verbatim statements that are listed on Page 245 1 Exhibit 8? 2 A. What I said was that I didn't 3 recall specifically seeing this exact form, but I 4 said that some of this I recall that I may have 5 seen before, parts of it. 6 Q. So is it your testimony that 7 you've been given documents that contain verbatim 8 statements that you have either given to 9 physicians or discussed with Eli Lilly 10 representatives? 11 A. I recall on occasion we were 12 given this type of form that discusses some -- 13 discusses something such as this. This wouldn't 14 be something that I would go in to a physician 15 and use and say this is what I am informed to 16 tell you from Eli Lilly. We discussed these and 17 whatever point we are talking about will also be 18 discussed in a promotion piece or some piece of 19 literature for which has been approved from Lilly 20 to discuss whatever point it may be with the 21 physician. 22 Q. And that goes to my next 23 question. Did you ever question any of these 24 representations that were approved by Lilly such Page 246 1 as in the fifth paragraph, and I'm not saying 2 this exact one, but statements such as the one in 3 the fifth paragraph that says -- 4 A. So you're saying do I ever 5 question Lilly's data? 6 Q. Yes. 7 A. I can't really look at this and 8 say -- make a judgment, because like I said, I 9 don't know what context this was given, it may 10 have been given with additional things, and 11 possibly if I had a question or if I wanted a 12 clarification where this came from, I certainly 13 would inquire about it. 14 Q. To whom would you inquire? 15 A. If it's been at a district 16 meeting, I would have brought the issue up to my 17 district manager and either he may have had the 18 answer or he may have gone to someone else who 19 may have had the answer. 20 Q. And basically have you done 21 that before, questioned something that you've 22 been given, whether it's a verbatim statement 23 like what's contained in Exhibit 8 or perhaps a 24 promotional piece, have you ever questioned Page 247 1 anything that contained -- that was contained in 2 those documents? 3 A. I'm going to speak generally in 4 the sense of when we received a document similar 5 to this, typically we would get it with backing 6 information that would prove whatever the point 7 that they were saying. So if it would have been 8 a question about -- that I didn't feel I had a 9 clear understanding or the evidence wasn't there, 10 I would inquire about it. 11 Q. When you say it would prove it, 12 that this other information that you would be 13 directed to, that information would be the 14 results of clinical trials that you were told 15 about but didn't conduct or participate in, 16 correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Let me show you what we will 19 mark as Hoffman Exhibit 9. 20 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 9 WAS 21 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 22 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 23 Q. I won't ask you to read the 24 whole thing, I'm just asking about this form of Page 248 1 document. The document that I've handed you, 2 Exhibit 9, is five pages, correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Is this -- have you ever seen 5 this type of document before? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. What is this type of document? 8 A. This appears to be a document 9 that we're sent from the corporate office, I 10 don't know from what department this may have 11 been sent, giving us an update about certain 12 topics. 13 Q. How often would you get a 14 documents such as this? 15 A. We get documents about 16 different issues every day, not necessarily with 17 Prozac, it could be with our company cars, it 18 could be with, you know, vacation, could be with 19 Axid, anything, but we get letters all the time. 20 Q. Do you have a file at your home 21 where you keep memos or correspondence such as 22 Exhibit 9? 23 A. No. 24 Q. What do you do with it after Page 249 1 you read it, usually? 2 A. If it's something that I want 3 to save, then I save it. If it's something that 4 I don't feel is necessary, then I'll throw it 5 away. 6 Q. And I may have asked you this 7 already, do you have a specific file where you 8 keep literature that you want to have in your 9 file on Prozac? 10 A. I may. 11 MS. MORTIMER: Let's mark this as 12 Exhibit 10. 13 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 10 WAS 14 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 15 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 16 Q. Exhibit 10 contains six pages, 17 is that true? 18 A. That's correct. 19 MS. MORTIMER: Do you have six in 20 yours? 21 MR. MYERS: Yes. 22 Q. Directing your attention to the 23 first two pages, have you ever seen the first two 24 pages of Exhibit 10 before? Page 250 1 A. I have no idea where this comes 2 from. There are certain points on here that I've 3 seen before but I do not recall seeing this exact 4 document. I may have. 5 Q. So you have no idea who 6 generated it and if you received it, who sent it 7 to you, correct? 8 A. I don't see -- it doesn't -- 9 this form doesn't seem similar to me. Being it 10 doesn't have a Lilly address on the top, I don't 11 know where it's from. Again, these are kind of 12 taken in context where I don't know where there 13 taken from so -- 14 Q. So the statements that are on 15 here, you don't have any specific knowledge as to 16 what specific studies they refer to or what 17 clinical trial patients they refer to and so 18 forth because it's taken out of context and 19 you've never seen it before, correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 MR. MYERS: The first two pages? 22 MS. MORTIMER: Yes, the first two 23 pages. 24 Q. Okay. Let's go to the fourth Page 251 1 page of the Exhibit. 2 A. May 23rd at the top? 3 Q. Yes. Have you ever seen that 4 before? 5 A. Again, as I said with the other 6 ones, it seems like I don't know where this is 7 taken from. I may have seen a company statement 8 but I can't say for certain that this is one that 9 I've seen before. 10 Q. And so you don't know if you 11 received -- if Dista representatives received 12 this? 13 A. It's possible, I don't know if 14 this was sent to a district manager, I don't know 15 if this was sent from -- to the corporate office, 16 to the media. I don't have any idea where this 17 was sent from. 18 Q. If you were given a document 19 that was entitled, quote, Eli Lilly and Company 20 statement, unquote, what was Lilly's purpose in 21 giving it to you, if you know? 22 A. I don't know for certain what 23 it would be. 24 Q. If you got -- would you use a Page 252 1 statement that was deemed an Eli Lilly and 2 Company statement in any way in your detailing 3 duties? 4 A. Absolutely not. 5 Q. So then it would be true for 6 page three of the Exhibit which also says Eli 7 Lilly and Company statement, would your answers 8 be the same, you don't know? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. So basically -- 11 A. As I've said before, the things 12 I would use are the company approved promotional 13 pieces that are for use in detailing. This would 14 not be one of them that I am aware of. 15 Q. What about the last, I'm sorry, 16 the second to last page dated June 4, 1991, have 17 you ever seen that before? 18 A. I don't know that I've seen 19 this exact form, I don't recall seeing this exact 20 form. 21 Q. But since this is marked to be 22 approved, would -- 23 A. I don't know, I have no idea 24 what that word approved means here. Page 253 1 Q. So you have no idea for whom it 2 is approved? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And the last page says 5 questions and answers, have you ever seen that 6 before? 7 A. I don't know if this was 8 something that was mailed to the sales 9 representatives or to the managers or something 10 that was discussed in a meeting, some of these 11 topics may have been discussed but I don't 12 recall. I may have received it but I don't 13 recall. 14 Q. But you have received documents 15 that had questions and answers outlined for you 16 at meetings and so forth, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. What normally would you do with 19 such a document with questions and answers 20 listed? 21 A. I may keep it for a short 22 period of time and then discard it unless I 23 needed it for some purpose. And as I said 24 before, we are continually updated about Page 254 1 information so as I get new information, I 2 replace the old information. 3 Q. How would you use it? 4 A. That would just be information 5 for myself. 6 Q. And it would give you examples 7 of how to answer specific questions or it would 8 give you examples of approved answers to specific 9 questions? 10 A. I don't know that this has 11 anything to do with what promotional piece I'm 12 talking about. 13 Q. I understand, and let me ask 14 you a question that clarifies it a little better. 15 Not directing your attention to the last page of 16 Exhibit 10, because from your testimony, it 17 appears that you have not seen it or don't recall 18 seeing it. But you testified before that you may 19 have received or did receive documents that had 20 questions listed and answers listed. 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And my question to you is how 23 would you use such a document, you wouldn't give 24 the exact same answer, would you? Page 255 1 A. Correct. But maybe if they are 2 sending me from the company's perspective the 3 policies or whatever, and I may in fact verbalize 4 that similar message, but I wouldn't go in the 5 office and say this question is this and this is 6 what my answer is and I wouldn't use this in any 7 way with a physician. 8 Q. So a physician would absolutely -- 9 would never see this question and answer? 10 A. Correct. 11 MS. MORTIMER: Okay, please mark this 12 as Exhibit 11. 13 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 11 WAS 14 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 15 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 16 Q. Have you had the opportunity to 17 review Exhibit 11? 18 A. The last three, yes. 19 Q. And Exhibit 11 is a two page 20 document with Lilly slash Dista Patient Relations 21 on the first page at the top, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Have you ever seen this 24 document before? Page 256 1 A. No, I have not. 2 Q. Do you have any idea what this 3 document is? 4 A. I do not know. 5 Q. Do you have any idea who 6 generated this document? 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. Have you ever engaged in 9 patient relations as a detailer where you would 10 detail Prozac to someone who actually is taking 11 Prozac? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you have any idea whether 14 any of the representatives, whether they're Lilly 15 representatives or Dista representatives or any 16 of the different categories that you mentioned, 17 have a duty within their job description to 18 detail to actual patients? 19 A. That's not a duty for which 20 it's our responsibility. 21 MS. MORTIMER: You can mark this as 22 Hoffman Exhibit 12. 23 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 12 WAS 24 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND Page 257 1 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 2 Q. Have you had an opportunity to 3 look at what's been marked as Group Exhibit 12, 4 Ms. Hoffman? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. That Group Exhibit consists of 7 nine pages, correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And specifically it consists of 10 three separate documents, one dated February 16, 11 1990, another dated February 27, 1990, and the 12 last one dated May 15, 1990, is that true? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Have you ever seen any of the 15 documents that are part of Group Exhibit Number 16 14? 17 A. Again, as I said before, all of 18 the -- several of the issues that are mentioned 19 in here, I have seen discussed before, but again 20 I don't see any kind of header on these so I 21 don't know where exactly that they're coming 22 from. 23 Q. You don't know who generated 24 them? Page 258 1 A. No. 2 Q. Do you recognize this form 3 though, it says standby statement, colon, 4 approved at the top and underneath there's a 5 subject line and underneath that there's a 6 background with some narrative. Is this a type 7 of form that you sometimes receive as a detailer? 8 A. As a representative, I recall 9 getting different things. I don't remember if 10 all the ones said standby statement and subject 11 on the top. From what I can recall, when we 12 received information like this, there is 13 background information and then they may have a 14 question and answer page which gives you some 15 information from Lilly's point of view from which 16 you can have for your own information. 17 Q. Okay. What would you normally 18 do as a sales representative with the information 19 that's provided in a form such as the forms that 20 are reflected in Group Exhibit 12? 21 A. If I felt that I needed those 22 for the purpose of refreshing my memory about 23 something that the company had sent me and I 24 would keep it. If I didn't, I would throw it Page 259 1 away. We receive a lot of information like this 2 so there's a lot of things that we discard. 3 Q. And this would never be sent or 4 given to a physician to whom you were detailing a 5 product, correct? 6 A. Correct. As I said about a 7 million times, anything that I use in detailing 8 is something that's been approved by our 9 department and usually when you receive something 10 like this, if it were sent to a sales 11 representative, it would say for your 12 information, not for use in detailing. 13 Q. In the upper right quadrant of 14 all three documents within Group Exhibit, there 15 are numbers, all of the numbers have a prefix of 16 ninety and so it says ninety dash and there's 17 another number. The February 16, 1990 document, 18 for example, says 90-16, the February 27th is 19 90-17, and May 15, 1990, is 90-46. Do you have 20 any idea what those numbers reflect? 21 A. Not at all. 22 Q. If you ever received a document 23 from Lilly that was in this particular form and 24 you had a question about it, about anything with Page 260 1 respect to it, the date, something that's in this 2 narrative, who would you ask about that? 3 A. If I received some sort of a 4 letter from Indianapolis where there's something 5 that I question or have a question about? 6 Q. Yes. 7 A. Well, I would see where it was 8 from and I would call that department wherever it 9 would be. 10 Q. And from looking at Group 11 Exhibit Number 12, you don't know where these 12 specific documents came from, true? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Would these type of documents 15 generally come -- and when I say type of 16 documents, I mean the documents that are in this 17 particular form, would they generally come from 18 one specific department within Lilly? 19 A. Again -- 20 Q. If you know. 21 A. I really don't know. 22 Q. Okay. Do you know of anyone in 23 Lilly that I can ask that would have any 24 information as to the documents that you, as a Page 261 1 Dista representative, were sent? I'm just trying 2 to get at -- I want to know what exactly you were 3 sent and I'm trying to figure out who at Lilly I 4 can talk to to tell me or who would have a record 5 of what exactly you were sent, and if you know, 6 let me know. 7 MR. MYERS: Of anything she was sent? 8 MS. MORTIMER: Yes. 9 A. Anything about anything sent? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. You mean -- I'm confused. You 12 want to know -- 13 Q. I'll break it down for you. If 14 I want to know all the information that you 15 received from Lilly about Prozac, who do I ask at 16 Lilly, if you know? 17 A. I don't know a specific person 18 that you would ask. 19 Q. What department would I go to? 20 A. If I -- again, I don't know 21 this for certain, I would say go to the Prozac 22 marketing department. But again, I don't know 23 that. 24 Q. I understand and I appreciate Page 262 1 the information. 2 MS. MORTIMER: Let's mark this as 3 Exhibit 13. 4 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 13 WAS 5 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 6 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 7 Q. Have you had a chance to look 8 at this document? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. It's six pages, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And it's entitled, Prozac 13 Package Insert Changes, correct? 14 A. Right. 15 Q. Tell me about what information 16 you would receive about Prozac package inserts. 17 In other words, when you started with -- when you 18 started detailing for Lilly, you received a copy 19 of the package insert that Lilly was using for 20 Prozac at that particular time, correct? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Would you receive a copy of the -- 23 of a changed package insert every time a change 24 was made? Page 263 1 A. Everytime a change was made in 2 the package insert, we would be sent a letter 3 explaining what the change was and giving us a 4 copy of the package insert. Also we would 5 replace all of our old promotional materials that 6 we had in our possession with new promotional 7 materials which would reflect the change in the 8 package inserts. 9 Q. Have you ever seen what's been 10 marked as Exhibit 13 before? 11 A. I don't recall seeing this 12 form. 13 Q. Do you have any idea what this 14 form reflects other than the obvious Prozac 15 package insert changes, do you have any idea who 16 generated this form? 17 A. Absolutely no idea. 18 Q. As far as you know, you were 19 not sent this form, correct? 20 A. Not that I am aware of. 21 Q. Do you have any idea if this 22 form is part of a publication, a larger 23 publication? 24 A. I have absolutely no idea. Page 264 1 Q. If I wanted to find out about 2 the package insert changes, who at Lilly would I 3 talk to? 4 A. Again, I don't know the 5 specific person, but I would say go to Prozac 6 medical or get an updated package insert which 7 would give you all the updated information. 8 Q. Do the package inserts contain 9 the dates of the changes? 10 A. I think at the bottom of the 11 package insert it will say a date revised, I 12 don't know that for certain but I think I recall 13 that in the fine print. 14 Q. So you were advised of all of 15 the package insert changes but it would not -- 16 the advice was not given by way of Exhibit 13, 17 correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 MS. MORTIMER: We can mark this as 20 Exhibit 14. 21 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 14 WAS 22 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 23 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.). 24 Q. Have you had an opportunity to Page 265 1 review the documents that are a part of Group 2 Exhibit 14? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And Group Exhibit 14 is nine 5 pages, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Have you ever seen the 8 documents that are contained in Group Exhibit 19 -- 9 I'm sorry group Exhibit 14? 10 A. These seem familiar. 11 Q. Before, when you stated that 12 you had received materials that would advise you 13 of the Prozac package insert revisions or the 14 insert changes, would the documents that are 15 contained in Group Exhibit 14 be the type of 16 document you would receive? 17 A. These look like what we would 18 receive, yes. 19 Q. Do you recognize any of the 20 documents specifically, I realize that the first 21 one is dated October 5th of '89 so you may have 22 not received that one, but do you recognize any 23 of the ones that are dated thereafter? 24 A. Again, as I said, this package Page 266 1 insert each time is updated, we receive an 2 updated copy and any changes. So I don't know 3 how many times it has changed, I know it has 4 changed several times, so I would keep the most 5 recent one and usually after you receive 6 something like this, everything else that I have 7 will have this updated change and so I'll discard 8 the letter. 9 Q. Looking at the documents within 10 Group Exhibit 14 dated February 14, 1990, at the 11 top of that document, there's a name, do you have 12 any idea? 13 A. February 14, let's see which 14 one you're talking about. I see -- oh, all 15 right. 16 Q. Do you have any idea whose name 17 is at the top of that document? 18 A. I sure don't. 19 Q. On the second page of that 20 document, there's some blacked out spaces after 21 reminder number one and reminder number three, do 22 you have any idea what information is blacked out 23 from there? 24 A. No, I don't. Page 267 1 Q. Again, this type of document 2 would not be given to a physician, it was just 3 used by Eli Lilly to update its Dista sales 4 representatives on revisions to Prozac package 5 inserts, correct? 6 A. That's correct, we would not 7 use these in detailing a physician. 8 Q. Do you have any idea who 9 generated the documents, this type of documents, 10 would it be Prozac medical as far as you know? 11 A. As far as I would -- and I 12 don't know for certain, the person or the 13 department that, as I stated before, I would 14 suggest maybe Prozac medical. 15 Q. What other departments are 16 there within Lilly that are specifically related 17 to Prozac? You mentioned Prozac marketing, you 18 mentioned Prozac medical. Are there any other 19 Prozac departments that are specifically related 20 to Prozac? 21 A. I don't know that there's a 22 specific Prozac medical, but what I would mean 23 when I say that is call medical and ask them a 24 question about Prozac or where something is Page 268 1 generated. The only department that I am aware 2 of that is specific to Prozac is Prozac marketing 3 department. I'm not saying there aren't any, 4 there may be some, all I'm saying is those are 5 the ones that I can help you with. 6 Q. I've noticed throughout looking 7 at documents that some documents are sent by 8 Dista Products Company and some documents are 9 sent by Eli Lilly and Company, do you have any 10 idea why that is? 11 A. Dista Products is Eli Lilly, 12 it's a division within Lilly, so it's one and the 13 same. 14 Q. So you don't know why some 15 documents would have Dista and some would have 16 Eli Lilly? 17 A. Some may have Dista because 18 because they may just go to the Dista 19 representatives. So if it went to Lilly it may 20 go to the Lilly representatives, it just depends 21 on who the letter is addressing. 22 Q. But the Dista division is 23 housed in Indianapolis, right? 24 A. Correct. Page 269 1 MS. MORTIMER: We can mark this as 2 Exhibit 15. 3 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 15 WAS 4 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 5 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 6 Q. I'll ask you to read the whole 7 thing. The Hoffman Exhibit 15 is an article 8 written by Doctor Peter E. Stokes and it is 9 entitled, quote, Fluoxetine, colon, A Five dash 10 Year Review, close quote. Have you ever seen 11 this article before? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Have you distributed this 14 article as part of your detailing duties to 15 physicians or psychiatrists? 16 A. I have, but I don't recall 17 specifically who I left it with. 18 Q. So you don't know one way or 19 the other if you left this with Doctor Coleman? 20 A. I don't recall leaving this 21 with Doctor Coleman. 22 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 16 WAS 23 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 24 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) Page 270 1 Q. Exhibit 16 is the article 2 called, quote, Suicidality and Fluoxetine, colon, 3 Is There A Relationship, question mark, close 4 quote, and it's written by a Doctor Fava and a 5 Doctor Rosenbaum, R-O-S-E-N-B-A-U-M. Have you 6 ever read this article? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Were you given this article by 9 Lilly? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Have you ever distributed this 12 article to physicians or psychiatrists? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Have you ever distributed this 15 article to Doctor Lee Coleman? 16 A. As I recall, yes. 17 Q. So this is the article that was 18 alluded to in your notes of visits with Doctor 19 Coleman? 20 A. That's correct. This cover 21 page, I don't know where this is from, this is 22 not -- 23 Q. It's not part of the article? 24 A. I have not seen this front page Page 271 1 before. 2 Q. But from the second page on, as 3 far as you can recall, this is the article that 4 you distributed? 5 A. Right. I just wanted to 6 clarify that this wasn't something that I gave 7 Doctor Coleman. 8 Q. I appreciate it. 9 (PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT NO. 17 WAS 10 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND 11 RECEIVED IN EVIDENCE.) 12 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 17 13 which is an article entitled, quote, Fluoxetine, 14 colon, Prescribing Guidelines For The Newest 15 Antidepressant, close quote? 16 A. I don't recall seeing this. 17 Q. Do you have any recollection of 18 ever distributing this document to any physicians 19 or psychiatrists? 20 A. I don't recall. 21 Q. Do you have any specific 22 recollection of giving this document to Doctor 23 Lee Coleman? 24 A. I'm just going to say that I've Page 272 1 never have seen this so how could I give this to 2 do Coleman, so I have not given this to Doctor 3 Coleman. 4 Q. Okay. When you received 5 package insert changes, do you have to call the 6 physicians and psychiatrists to whom you detail 7 and make them aware of the package insert 8 changes? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to 11 whether the current package insert mentions 12 suicidal ideations anywhere? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Q. So to your knowledge, it does 15 not? 16 A. To my knowledge, I don't recall 17 it saying that Prozac causes suicidality. 18 Q. I understand that, but does it 19 in any way refer to suicidal ideation, not 20 necessarily as a side effect of the ingestion of 21 Prozac or Fluoxetine but just suicidal ideation? 22 A. Under -- at some portion it may 23 talk about suicide. 24 Q. Under what context, do you Page 273 1 know, or in what context? 2 A. It has a list of all the 3 different side effects and the different things 4 that have happened and, as I recall before, it 5 probably compares it to a placebo placebo or 6 something, but I don't recall specific numbers 7 off the top of my head. 8 Q. Do you have any idea when the 9 discussion of suicidal ideations in the package 10 insert was placed in the package insert? 11 A. Not that I am aware of, I don't 12 recall. 13 MS. MORTIMER: Let me go through my 14 notes. 15 A. I'm sure I was notified. 16 Q. I'm sorry? 17 A. I'm sure I was notified. 18 Q. I'm just trying to figure out 19 if it was -- to your knowledge, was it there 20 prior to you beginning work at Lilly or did it 21 come as part of a revision to the package insert 22 after you started? 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. Do you know? Page 274 1 A. I don't recall when that change 2 or if there was a change or -- 3 Q. There's a document that I've 4 seen, and unfortunately I don't have a copy of it 5 now, called the, quote, Neurotransmitter, 6 N-E-U-R-O-T-R-A-N-S-M-I-T-T-E-R, close quote, I 7 realize I don't have the document with me but do 8 you recall ever receiving any documents from 9 Lilly called the Neurotransmitter? 10 A. The Neurotransmitter, is like 11 an update -- it's a -- the title of the letter is 12 called the Neurotransmitter and it's just an 13 update on things that may be going on in 14 psychiatry, maybe not related to Prozac, maybe 15 related to Prozac, just kind of like a newsletter 16 that goes to sales representatives. 17 Q. And it's strictly with respect 18 to psychiatry and not necessarily -- 19 A. It might have something to do 20 with Prozac but not necessarily. 21 Q. It's not only concerned with 22 Prozac, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Are there any newsletters or Page 275 1 anything generated by Lilly other than the 2 documents we have looked at today that strictly 3 discuss Prozac or are designed to strictly 4 discuss Prozac or Fluoxetine? 5 A. That's kind of a vague 6 question. 7 Q. I know, I'm just trying to see -- 8 is there something like, I know the 9 Neurotransmitter is something that is generated 10 by Lilly that is kind of an update on psychiatry, 11 correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. Is there anything that Lilly 14 generates that is the same type of thing, that's 15 like a newsletter that's directed to Prozac only? 16 A. Not that I'm aware of. 17 Q. Can you distribute the 18 Neurotransmitter to psychiatrists in your 19 detailing duties? 20 A. No. 21 MS. MORTIMER: I don't have any further 22 questions. 23 MR. MYERS: No questions. 24 (THE WITNESS WAS EXCUSED.) Page 276 1 COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY ) 2 : ss COUNTY OF JEFFERSON ) 3 4 I, MARY KATHLEEN NOLD, A NOTARY PUBLIC IN 5 AND FOR THE STATE OF KENTUCKY AT LARGE, DO HEREBY 6 CERTIFY THAT THE FOREGOING TESTIMONY OF 7 CHRISTY HOFFMAN 8 WAS TAKEN BEFORE ME AT THE TIME AND PLACE AS 9 STATED IN THE CAPTION; THAT THE WITNESS WAS FIRST 10 DULY SWORN TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, 11 AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH; THAT THE SAID 12 PROCEEDINGS WERE TAKEN DOWN BY ME IN STENOGRAPHIC 13 NOTES AND AFTERWARDS TRANSCRIBED UNDER MY 14 DIRECTION; THAT IT IS A TRUE, COMPLETE AND 15 CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF THE SAID PROCEEDINGS SO 16 HAD; THAT THE APPEARANCES WERE AS STATED IN THE 17 CAPTION. 18 WITNESS MY SIGNATURE THIS THE 3RD DAY OF 19 DECEMBER, 1993. 20 MY COMMISSION EXPIRES MARCH 10, 1994. 21 22 23 _________________________ MARY KATHLEEN NOLD 24 COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC STATE OF KENTUCKY AT LARGE Page 277 1 2 3 E R R A T A S H E E T 4 5 COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY ) : SS 6 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON ) 7 8 I, CHRISTY HOFFMAN, THE UNDERSIGNED 9 DEPONENT, HAVE THIS DATE READ THE FOREGOING PAGES 10 OF MY DEPOSITION AND WITH THE CHANGES NOTED 11 BELOW, IF ANY, THESE PAGES CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND 12 ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION OF MY DEPOSITION GIVEN ON 13 THE 18TH DAY OF DECEMBER, 1993 AT THE TIME AND 14 PLACE STATED THEREIN. 15 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CHANGE REASON Page 278 1 2 PAGE NO. LINE NO. CHANGE REASON 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 _____________________________ 10 CHRISTY HOFFMAN 11 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME THIS 12 _____ DAY OF __________, 1993. 13 _____________________________ NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF 14 KENTUCKY AT LARGE Page 279 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 280 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 281 1 2 3 4 Page 282